• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Is baptism necessary for salvation?

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Member
Mercury said:
I wanted to get peoples opinions on this topic.

Let me know what ya'll think.
I don't know how much you want to get into this ... Being a Baptist most of my life, I believe that the public baptism is something promoted by both Jesus and Paul ... It is important because it's a public testimony of a person's new birth. I also practiced baptism by emersion (in a tank where the person is submerged briefly then lifted out of the water. I also practiced believer's baptism ... that is a person is baptised after make his/her own personal commitment to Christ (as opposed to infant baptism practiced by the Roman Catholic and other churches)

It symbolizes being buried with Christ (a testimony to having been cleansed of sin) and risen with him into new life. Required for salvation... No, but a very important public testimony of your faith.

That said, there are other points of view ... Roman Catholics believe that the act of baptism actually washes away sin.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different thing altogether. I don't know if "required" is the right word for it. Baptism of the Holy Spirit just happens at the time a person actually is born again. (Again that's my Baptist background). Some other churches believe that there is a second Baptism of the Holy Spirit that better enables serving God. Those that practice speaking in tongues believe this way.
 
Member
Whenever I can not obtain a concrete answer to a question, I always ask myself, "Is it worth it?" OK, enough about me, :smile: Let's see what our lord has to say about it. Matthew 28:19-20 is known as the "Great Commision."

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The way I understand this Scripture is that not only are we to teach all peoples, but baptize them as well. This must be significant, for it is Christ's own commandment in His own words.

Calvinearl
 
Member
Thanx for all your info people. There is some very interesting stuff.



Here is what I have found from the bible on the topic.



If when baptised you:



  • Have remission of sins
Acts 2
38 Peter said to them, " Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



  • Have your sins washed away
Acts 22
16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'



  • Benefit from Jesus death
Romans 6
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.



  • Enter the body of Christ, or enter the church.
1 Corinthians 12
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.



  • Put on Christ
Galatians 3
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.



  • Are raised with Him.
Colossians 2
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.



  • Are saved
1 Peter 3:21
Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,



Then what is you condition without baptism?


Wouldn’t the answer to this question be that you are lost? Now don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that baptism alone saves you. I am saying that without it you are not saved not matter what you do. The same can be said if you were baptised but you did not have faith.




Let me know what ya’ll think of this.





Cheers people.
 
Member
John 3:15 "Anyone that believes in Me will have eternal life."

"With water I baptize those who repent of their sins," said John the Baptist. "But someone else is coming, far greater than I am, so great that I am not worthy to carry his shoes! He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. He will separate the chaff from the grain, burning the chaff with never-ending fire, and storing away the grain."

Then Jesus went from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized there by John. John didn't want to do it.

"This isn't proper," he said. "I am the one who needs to be baptized by you."

But Jesus said, "Please do it, for I must do all that is right." So then John baptized him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew 3:11-15 The Living Bible (1971) Tyndale House Publishers; Wheaton, Illinois 60187.
Jesus set an example for us to live by, and though it would seem as though the one person who wouldn't need baptism would be Jesus, he insisted on it. He described baptism of water to be "right". And from all the verses that Mercury gave as references, I would believe baptism is a requirement for growth as a Christian. But I do not believe it is a requirement for being Saved and going to Heaven. I believe you can be Saved even if the only thing you do is recognize the fact that Jesus can save you, and admit you need the saving from your sins and ask Him to do so.

A signboard was nailed to the cross above Jesus with these words: "This is the King of the Jews."

One of the criminals hanging beside him scoffed, "So you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself--and us, too, while you're at it!"

But the other criminal protested. "Don't you even fear God when you are dying? We deserve to die for our evil deeds, but this man hasn't done one thing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom."

And Jesus replied,"Today you will be with me in Paradise. This is a solemn promise."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Luke 23:38-43 The Living Bible (1971) Tyndale House Publishers; Wheaton, Illinois 60187.
 
Last edited:
Member
Jesus said that Baptism of water was "right". And from all the verses that Mercury gave as references, I would believe baptism is a requirement for growth as a Christian. But I do not believe it is a requirement for being Saved.






How can baptism not be a requirement if without it you do not:



  • Have remission of sins
  • Have your sins washed away
  • Benefit from Jesus death
  • Enter the body of Christ, or enter the church.
  • Put on Christ
  • Are raised with Him.
  • Are saved
I believe you can be Saved even if the only thing you do is recognize the fact that Jesus can save you, and admit you need the saving from your sins and ask Him to do so.



This means that all I have to do is accept Jesus and keep living as a sinner. Faiths without deeds is dead. There is more to being saved than just believing Jesus can do it.

Interesting ideas though.
 
Member
Mercury said:
This means that all I have to do is accept Jesus and keep living as a sinner. Faiths without deeds is dead. There is more to being saved than just believing Jesus can do it.
Well, you're right, Mercury, I didn't think about that. To me, the fact that Jesus loves me so much that He would suffer all that He did and then still forgive me for all the sins that I know I've done wrong, well that just makes me love Him to the point where I do not want to continue sinning! I want to obey Him as much as possible, by being baptised and repenting of my sins and everything else that He asks of me!

And I may still continue to live as a sinner after I have accepted Jesus' gift of Salvation. There are things I do all the time that I know God would not have been pleased with. And I immediately feel sorry, and I go to Him and I tell Him how sorry I am, and sooner or later I will feel His forgiveness that I know I receive the minute I confessed.
Jesus answered them, "It is the sick who need a doctor, not those in good health. My purpose is to invite sinners to turn from their sins, not to spend my time with those who think themselves already good enough."

Then he added, "Now go away and learn the meaning of this verse of Scripture,
'It isn't your sacrifices and your gifts I want—I want you to be merciful.'

For I have come to urge sinners, not the self-righteous, back to God."

(Luke5:31-32, Matthew 9:13) The Living Bible, ©1971 Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton Illinois 60187
And Jesus prayed this prayer: "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise, and for revealing it to little children. Yes, Father, for it pleased you to do it this way!

"Everything has been entrusted to me by my Father. Only the Father knows the Son, and the Father is known only by the Son and by those to whom the Son reveals him. Come to me and I will give you restall of you who work so hard beneath a heavy yoke. Wear my yoke—for it fits perfectly—and let me teach you; for I am gentle and humble, and you shall find rest for your souls; for I give you only light burdens."

(Matthew 11:20-30) The Living Bible, ©1971 Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton Illinois 60187
"There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust Him to save them."
(John 3:18) The Living Bible, ©1971 Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton Illinois 60187
My point here is that trusting Jesus to Save you, and asking Jesus into your heart, is the act that is required for you to enter into the Gates of Heaven. And by putting Jesus first into your life, the baptism and the good deeds and everything else just automatically all falls into place, just because you love Him. And you do these things out of love for Him. But if something happened, and you died before you got to do any of those other things after confessing your sins to Jesus, well, I believe you are still Saved. Which is why I posted the story about the thief who hung on the cross beside Jesus. That man didn't get baptised. He didn't have time for all that. Had he had time for it, yes, Jesus may have required it. Mercury has found several Scriptures that do say very clearly that baptism does save (ie. 1 Peter 3:21) and I can't argue with that. But I do like to think that the person who hung on the cross next to Jesus and said the simple statement "Jesus, please remember me," was Saved and was taken to Heaven with Jesus on that very day.

And I think that, if you continue to live after asking Jesus to be your Savior, that the Holy Spirit will ask you to do the things that God requires, and that your spiritual journey from then on is an act of obedience toward God. And that the obedience and the good works are all in a sense salvific.

In our human minds, it seems there should be a certain point, that we become Saved and everything we do afterwards is counted against us. And we look for truths in form of advice from other people but you know what? The truth is alive. And the truth is Jesus. It's not as concrete as we'd like it to be, and we won't understand everything until we get to Heaven. But what we do know is that Christianity is all about obedience, trust, and love toward God, and following in Jesus' footsteps, and because Jesus was baptized in water, I believe we are to be, also.

And there are people all the time who say that a person who keeps right on living a sinful life after being Saved should not be allowed to enter into Heaven. But the truth is, the reason why a Christian refrains from sinning is because they love Jesus and the Heavenly Father so much that they don't want to grieve them by sinning, and they know the consequences that follow sinning and they do not wish to receive those consequences.

It's just that, for so many people that I know, Christianity is this matter of... it has everything to do with morals. Christianity is a religion about morals. And they will even talk about Jesus, and they will say kids need to know about Jesus so that they won't smoke, drink, or dance, or go with girls who do, and all that kind of thing... and I kinda go, "That's not why people need to know about Jesus. The only reasonthe only possbile excuse for talking about Jesus is because we need a Saviour." --Rich Mullins
 
Last edited:
Member





Originally Posted by Mercury



[right]This means that all I have to do is accept Jesus and keep living as a sinner. Faiths without deeds is dead. There is more to being saved than just believing Jesus can do it.




Well, you're right, Mercury, I didn't think about that. To me, the fact that Jesus loves me so much that He would suffer all that He did and then still forgive me for all the sins that I know I've done wrong, well that just makes me love Him to the point where I do not want to continue sinning! I want to obey Him as much as possible, by being baptised and repenting of my sins and everything else that He asks of me!
[/right]






Wise words!



My point here is that trusting Jesus to Save you, and asking Jesus into your heart, is the act that is required for you to enter into the Gates of Heaven.




Just asking Jesus into your heart does not save. There are steps to salvation.

We have to:

Hear

Believe

Confess

Repent

Be baptised

And Grow

If one of these is missing then you have chosen to disobey God and therefore risk your salvation.



And by putting Jesus first into your life, the baptism and the good deeds and everything else just automatically all falls into place, just because you love Him
.




I agre, Good points.



And you do these things out of love for Him. But if something happened, and you died before you got to do any of those other things after confessing your sins to Jesus, well, I believe you are still Saved
.


Well that is up to Gods judgment. But I can tell you that the bible tells us that baptism saves. (obviously not baptism alone) SO if you don’t have it then what is your condition?



Which is why I posted the story about the thief who hung on the cross beside Jesus. That man didn't get baptised. He didn't have time for all that. Had he had time for it, yes, Jesus may have required it. Mercury has found several Scriptures that do say very clearly that baptism does save (ie. 1 Peter 3:21) and I can't argue with that. But I do like to think that the person who hung on the cross next to Jesus and said the simple statement "Jesus, please remember me," was Saved and was taken to Heaven with Jesus on that very day.

The reason that the thief did not need baptism was because it had not been instituted yet. Jesus had not died so he could not be baptised into Christs death and resurrection if He had not died yet. Does that make sense?




And there are people all the time who say that a person who keeps right on living a sinful life after being Saved should not be allowed to enter into Heaven. But the truth is, the reason why a Christian refrains from sinning is because they love Jesus and the Heavenly Father so much that they don't want to grieve them by sinning, and they know the consequences that follow sinning and they do not wish to receive those consequences.


Nicely put.

 
Member
By the lack of response i am assuming that everyone agrees then that baptism is a step to salvation?





Keep the ideas coming.
 
Last edited:
Member
Point well taken

Mercury, Hi.

This has indeed turned into a very interesting discussion.

Mercury said:
The reason that the thief did not need baptism was because it had not been instituted yet. Jesus had not died so he could not be baptised into Christs death and resurrection if He had not died yet.
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I am encouraged to read through the book of Acts again and list the steps that a Christian must take. I appreciate you pointing out to us that baptism is indeed necessary for salvation.

Perhaps we will find ourselves in other discussions that will be as encouraging and rewarding for both of us as this one has been.

Love in Christ,
JeRoche
 
Member
That’s incredible news. You have had a very open heart and mind, and I know that through continuos study and prayer you will be able to find out more about Gods will. This is the first time I have seen someone turn from the standing of it not being necessary to seeing that baptism is necessary for salvation. You have really encouraged me. I am just screaming inside. Thanx so much for being so open and equitable.



If there are anymore questions that you have I would be more than happy to answer them.



I thank God and give Him all the Glory.
 
Member
I just had to post again. I am just so happy. My skin is just tingling. I feel like a little school girl. Even though I’m a guy? HAHAHAHA!


LOL :wink:
 
Member
.........
not to throw a spanner in this discussion.... but I do not agree.

It is by faith we are saved, through Grace... not by works.

It's your heart that God wants.... knowing that the body will sin anyway.
If salvation was attanable by a collection of activities, then we would all be the equivalent to Pharasees now... living our lives by ritual and proper... not saved by grace.

I believe that Babtism (ie immersion) is integral to a bleiever's spiritual walk, as a public and definate declaration of faith and a symbol of dying to self and being raised with Christ to new life... however I could not dare to suggest that my Jesus did not pay the ultimate and ONLY required price for my salvation.
 
Member
not to throw a spanner in this discussion.... but I do not agree.

It is by faith we are saved, through Grace... not by works.




Faith alone does not save.



James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.





It's your heart that God wants.... knowing that the body will sin anyway.
If salvation was attanable by a collection of activities, then we would all be the equivalent to Pharasees now... living our lives by ritual and proper... not saved by grace
.






The Pharisees believed they could get themselves to heaven through their works. What am saying is that the works that we are commanded to do tell God that we want to be saved therfore he does.

I believe that Babtism (ie immersion) is integral to a bleiever's spiritual walk, as a public and definate declaration of faith and a symbol of dying to self and being raised with Christ to new life...




Again, baptism is not a public declaration of faith. The eunuch was not publicly baptised.





however I could not dare to suggest that my Jesus did not pay the ultimate and ONLY required price for my salvation



What you are saying is that all I have to do is have a good heart. Even some unbelievers have good hearts. Does that make them saved? No, though they have good hearts they are not obedient to the command of believing in Christ, and even if they do believe in Christ that is not enough because faith alone is dead. Even the demons have faith, but we all know they are not saved. Believing is also a work. So is repenting and preaching Gods word. If we do not do one of these things then we are lost by our own choice not to follow Gods commands.
 
Member
"The eunuch was not publicly baptised......"

Of course he was.. someone had to baptise him!
I know that sounds petty, but my point is that in life, it's too easy just to say one thing, and then forget about it a day or a week later... but knowing that life as a human not only allows, but requires choice means that when we choose Christ, we are saved... but we also must choose Baptism, or for that matter ANY of the steps to spiritual growth before they have an influence on our lives.


Oh and try reading John 3:16 again.. .."...believes in Him ..."

"What you are saying is that all I have to do is have a good heart....."
No, of course not, that is not even close to what I said... and I think you know it.
I'm not here for argument's sake, I'm here because I truly disagree. Please don't cheapen my basis by watering it down to .. "You think all you have to do is have a good heart". Nothing can be gained by that.

Jesus paid the price for our sin, we believe and ackgnowledge him as Lord and Savior, and are saved.. In essence, that's the Gospel.

*note* I am Baptised... have been for 8 years or something like that
 
Member
"The eunuch was not publicly baptised......"

Of course he was.. someone had to baptise him!




Yes but it was not a public affair. One person baptised him. That is hardly public.


I know that sounds petty, but my point is that in life, it's too easy just to say one thing, and then forget about it a day or a week later... but knowing that life as a human not only allows, but requires choice means that when we choose Christ, we are saved... but we also must choose Baptism, or for that matter ANY of the steps to spiritual growth before they have an influence on our lives.



So we can’t choose one without the other. Therefore if I choose Christ but don’t do his will am I risking my salvation?



"What you are saying is that all I have to do is have a good heart....."
No, of course not, that is not even close to what I said... and I think you know it.
I'm not here for argument's sake, I'm here because I truly disagree. Please don't cheapen my basis by watering it down to .. "You think all you have to do is have a good heart". Nothing can be gained by that.




Sorry, I was genuinely asking. That wasn’t meant to be a cheap shot. This is what I thought you meant. Unfortunately it is what a lot of people believe.




Jesus paid the price for our sin, we believe and ackgnowledge him as Lord and Savior, and are saved.. In essence, that's the Gospel.




But just believing and acknowledging Jesus is not going to get us saved. As has been said before, even the demons believe. Obedience is what saves us. It is obedience that leads us to righteousness.



Romans 6:16
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?








Let me ask you this. If the bible tells someone to do something, and that someone doesn’t do it because he/she doesn’t feel that it is important. Are they risking their salvation?



 
Member
no, untimately no, definately no and most assuredly no

"risking their salvation" .. Ack... that precept makes me cringe.

We serve a God who Died for us, paid the ULTIMATE price so that we could be saved.. and the gift of GRACE was given undeserved and not able to be won, earned or attained, yet we talk about 'risking salvation' and compare faith in Jesus to demons..

that's gotta be like walking up to Jesus and slapping him.
 
Member
no, untimately no, definately no and most assuredly no

"risking their salvation" .. Ack... that precept makes me cringe.

We serve a God who Died for us, paid the ULTIMATE price so that we could be saved.. and the gift of GRACE was given undeserved and not able to be won, earned or attained, yet we talk about 'risking salvation' and compare faith in Jesus to demons..

that's gotta be like walking up to Jesus and slapping him.




Ok so are you saying that it doesn’t matter if we follow Gods word or not?
 
Member
Wow this is so interesting
I have a friend, an elderly lady in her 70's and she has
been a Christian all her life, also her deceased husband to
she is so very pure and holy in though word deed etc
they never even would have a TV in their home so you
can guess how devout she is and he was.
Well her mother was never baptised and I remember
speaking about this matter with her and she assured
me that her mother definatly was in heaven also my own
grandmother who lived all her life as a Christian, was such
a very meek and quiet little lady, lived just for our Lord alone
her husband, my granda never did get saved, well she wasn't
baptised and I sincerely believe she is in heaven
I do intend to get baptised, my own parents who are also
Christians aren't though, my Mum got a little perterbed about
this subject oneday when we talked about it and thought
perhaps she should then I read something to the effect it wouldn't
keep you out of heaven, must look for that, so she went no
further, I know it does say in the Bible that Jesus was baptised
by John the Baptist, I will get baptised to finalize my faith
It might be an outward sign to the church to show your faith
this might be what I think about getting it done, I'm really
not sure, but I will do it and be thankfull for it, until then with
the Lords enabling I keep away from sin and all the things which
displease him, 1John 2 V6 He that saith he abideth in him ought
himself to walk as he walked.
 

Top