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SignUp Now!I don't know how much you want to get into this ... Being a Baptist most of my life, I believe that the public baptism is something promoted by both Jesus and Paul ... It is important because it's a public testimony of a person's new birth. I also practiced baptism by emersion (in a tank where the person is submerged briefly then lifted out of the water. I also practiced believer's baptism ... that is a person is baptised after make his/her own personal commitment to Christ (as opposed to infant baptism practiced by the Roman Catholic and other churches)Mercury said:I wanted to get peoples opinions on this topic.
Let me know what ya'll think.
Jesus set an example for us to live by, and though it would seem as though the one person who wouldn't need baptism would be Jesus, he insisted on it. He described baptism of water to be "right". And from all the verses that Mercury gave as references, I would believe baptism is a requirement for growth as a Christian. But I do not believe it is a requirement for being Saved and going to Heaven. I believe you can be Saved even if the only thing you do is recognize the fact that Jesus can save you, and admit you need the saving from your sins and ask Him to do so."With water I baptize those who repent of their sins," said John the Baptist. "But someone else is coming, far greater than I am, so great that I am not worthy to carry his shoes! He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. He will separate the chaff from the grain, burning the chaff with never-ending fire, and storing away the grain."
Then Jesus went from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized there by John. John didn't want to do it.
"This isn't proper," he said. "I am the one who needs to be baptized by you."
But Jesus said, "Please do it, for I must do all that is right." So then John baptized him.
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Matthew 3:11-15 The Living Bible (1971) Tyndale House Publishers; Wheaton, Illinois 60187.
A signboard was nailed to the cross above Jesus with these words: "This is the King of the Jews."
One of the criminals hanging beside him scoffed, "So you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving yourself--and us, too, while you're at it!"
But the other criminal protested. "Don't you even fear God when you are dying? We deserve to die for our evil deeds, but this man hasn't done one thing wrong." Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom."
And Jesus replied,"Today you will be with me in Paradise. This is a solemn promise."
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Luke 23:38-43 The Living Bible (1971) Tyndale House Publishers; Wheaton, Illinois 60187.
Jesus said that Baptism of water was "right". And from all the verses that Mercury gave as references, I would believe baptism is a requirement for growth as a Christian. But I do not believe it is a requirement for being Saved.
I believe you can be Saved even if the only thing you do is recognize the fact that Jesus can save you, and admit you need the saving from your sins and ask Him to do so.
Well, you're right, Mercury, I didn't think about that. To me, the fact that Jesus loves me so much that He would suffer all that He did and then still forgive me for all the sins that I know I've done wrong, well that just makes me love Him to the point where I do not want to continue sinning! I want to obey Him as much as possible, by being baptised and repenting of my sins and everything else that He asks of me!Mercury said:This means that all I have to do is accept Jesus and keep living as a sinner. Faiths without deeds is dead. There is more to being saved than just believing Jesus can do it.
Jesus answered them, "It is the sick who need a doctor, not those in good health. My purpose is to invite sinners to turn from their sins, not to spend my time with those who think themselves already good enough."
Then he added, "Now go away and learn the meaning of this verse of Scripture,
'It isn't your sacrifices and your gifts I want—I want you to be merciful.'For I have come to urge sinners, not the self-righteous, back to God."
(Luke5:31-32, Matthew 9:13) The Living Bible, ©1971 Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton Illinois 60187
And Jesus prayed this prayer: "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise, and for revealing it to little children. Yes, Father, for it pleased you to do it this way!
"Everything has been entrusted to me by my Father. Only the Father knows the Son, and the Father is known only by the Son and by those to whom the Son reveals him. Come to me and I will give you rest—all of you who work so hard beneath a heavy yoke. Wear my yoke—for it fits perfectly—and let me teach you; for I am gentle and humble, and you shall find rest for your souls; for I give you only light burdens."
(Matthew 11:20-30) The Living Bible, ©1971 Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton Illinois 60187
My point here is that trusting Jesus to Save you, and asking Jesus into your heart, is the act that is required for you to enter into the Gates of Heaven. And by putting Jesus first into your life, the baptism and the good deeds and everything else just automatically all falls into place, just because you love Him. And you do these things out of love for Him. But if something happened, and you died before you got to do any of those other things after confessing your sins to Jesus, well, I believe you are still Saved. Which is why I posted the story about the thief who hung on the cross beside Jesus. That man didn't get baptised. He didn't have time for all that. Had he had time for it, yes, Jesus may have required it. Mercury has found several Scriptures that do say very clearly that baptism does save (ie. 1 Peter 3:21) and I can't argue with that. But I do like to think that the person who hung on the cross next to Jesus and said the simple statement "Jesus, please remember me," was Saved and was taken to Heaven with Jesus on that very day."There is no eternal doom awaiting those who trust Him to save them."
(John 3:18) The Living Bible, ©1971 Tyndale House Publishers, Wheaton Illinois 60187
It's just that, for so many people that I know, Christianity is this matter of... it has everything to do with morals. Christianity is a religion about morals. And they will even talk about Jesus, and they will say kids need to know about Jesus so that they won't smoke, drink, or dance, or go with girls who do, and all that kind of thing... and I kinda go, "That's not why people need to know about Jesus. The only reason—the only possbile excuse for talking about Jesus is because we need a Saviour." --Rich Mullins
Originally Posted by Mercury
This means that all I have to do is accept Jesus and keep living as a sinner. Faiths without deeds is dead. There is more to being saved than just believing Jesus can do it.
Well, you're right, Mercury, I didn't think about that. To me, the fact that Jesus loves me so much that He would suffer all that He did and then still forgive me for all the sins that I know I've done wrong, well that just makes me love Him to the point where I do not want to continue sinning! I want to obey Him as much as possible, by being baptised and repenting of my sins and everything else that He asks of me!
My point here is that trusting Jesus to Save you, and asking Jesus into your heart, is the act that is required for you to enter into the Gates of Heaven.
.And by putting Jesus first into your life, the baptism and the good deeds and everything else just automatically all falls into place, just because you love Him
.And you do these things out of love for Him. But if something happened, and you died before you got to do any of those other things after confessing your sins to Jesus, well, I believe you are still Saved
The reason that the thief did not need baptism was because it had not been instituted yet. Jesus had not died so he could not be baptised into Christs death and resurrection if He had not died yet. Does that make sense?Which is why I posted the story about the thief who hung on the cross beside Jesus. That man didn't get baptised. He didn't have time for all that. Had he had time for it, yes, Jesus may have required it. Mercury has found several Scriptures that do say very clearly that baptism does save (ie. 1 Peter 3:21) and I can't argue with that. But I do like to think that the person who hung on the cross next to Jesus and said the simple statement "Jesus, please remember me," was Saved and was taken to Heaven with Jesus on that very day.
Nicely put.
And there are people all the time who say that a person who keeps right on living a sinful life after being Saved should not be allowed to enter into Heaven. But the truth is, the reason why a Christian refrains from sinning is because they love Jesus and the Heavenly Father so much that they don't want to grieve them by sinning, and they know the consequences that follow sinning and they do not wish to receive those consequences.
Thank you for your words of wisdom. I am encouraged to read through the book of Acts again and list the steps that a Christian must take. I appreciate you pointing out to us that baptism is indeed necessary for salvation.Mercury said:The reason that the thief did not need baptism was because it had not been instituted yet. Jesus had not died so he could not be baptised into Christs death and resurrection if He had not died yet.
not to throw a spanner in this discussion.... but I do not agree.
It is by faith we are saved, through Grace... not by works.
.It's your heart that God wants.... knowing that the body will sin anyway.
If salvation was attanable by a collection of activities, then we would all be the equivalent to Pharasees now... living our lives by ritual and proper... not saved by grace
I believe that Babtism (ie immersion) is integral to a bleiever's spiritual walk, as a public and definate declaration of faith and a symbol of dying to self and being raised with Christ to new life...
What you are saying is that all I have to do is have a good heart. Even some unbelievers have good hearts. Does that make them saved? No, though they have good hearts they are not obedient to the command of believing in Christ, and even if they do believe in Christ that is not enough because faith alone is dead. Even the demons have faith, but we all know they are not saved. Believing is also a work. So is repenting and preaching Gods word. If we do not do one of these things then we are lost by our own choice not to follow Gods commands.however I could not dare to suggest that my Jesus did not pay the ultimate and ONLY required price for my salvation
"The eunuch was not publicly baptised......"
Of course he was.. someone had to baptise him!
I know that sounds petty, but my point is that in life, it's too easy just to say one thing, and then forget about it a day or a week later... but knowing that life as a human not only allows, but requires choice means that when we choose Christ, we are saved... but we also must choose Baptism, or for that matter ANY of the steps to spiritual growth before they have an influence on our lives.
"What you are saying is that all I have to do is have a good heart....."
No, of course not, that is not even close to what I said... and I think you know it.
I'm not here for argument's sake, I'm here because I truly disagree. Please don't cheapen my basis by watering it down to .. "You think all you have to do is have a good heart". Nothing can be gained by that.
Jesus paid the price for our sin, we believe and ackgnowledge him as Lord and Savior, and are saved.. In essence, that's the Gospel.
no, untimately no, definately no and most assuredly no
"risking their salvation" .. Ack... that precept makes me cringe.
We serve a God who Died for us, paid the ULTIMATE price so that we could be saved.. and the gift of GRACE was given undeserved and not able to be won, earned or attained, yet we talk about 'risking salvation' and compare faith in Jesus to demons..
that's gotta be like walking up to Jesus and slapping him.