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If only Adam and Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit!

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In the beginning, God created Adam and Eve. They were perfect. Immortality was default and infinity was the default lifespan of individuals, especially those who eat of the Tree of Life and continue to eat of the Tree of Life. Earth and Heaven were both man's home.

But they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and destroyed everything. In the beginning, there was but one commandment. No eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now we have roughly 1,667 commandments that have to be perfectly obeyed.

How I so wish I had a time machine so I could go back to the time of Adam and Eve and stop them from eating of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. I would tell them all about Hell. I would tell them about spiritual death. I think I would even trim the tree of knowledge of good and evil so Adam and Eve could never reach it's fruits, nor could they climb the tree either.

I am so infuriated every time I see videos on the Internet of them eating the forbidden fruit. Because of them, our lives are now temporal, we have to perfectly keep 1,667 hard commandments, the way back to eternal life is narrow and involves both, believing in Jesus and perfectly obeying every single commandment between Genesis and Revelation without fault. Even today, there is an Internet preacher who goes by the screen name "finalcall07" that tells us we have to be as perfect as God Himself in our own strength and obedience to God's laws, and if we stumble, we get destroyed in Hell.

Hello, Mercury . . . Good discussion!

This is what I believe: The Tree of Life refers to Jesus. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is Satan (the serpent). (An apple is never mentioned. ) Adam and Eve disobeyed God when they ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The serpent (Satan) beguiled (seduced) Eve and Adam. It was Satan who brought “death” into the world.
 
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Hello, Mercury . . . Good discussion!

This is what I believe: The Tree of Life refers to Jesus. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is Satan (the serpent). (An apple is never mentioned. ) Adam and Eve disobeyed God when they ate of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The serpent (Satan) beguiled (seduced) Eve and Adam. It was Satan who brought “death” into the world.
Gen 2:16 Specifically talks about tree's. Gen 1:29 talks about trees that bear fruit with seeds, being created for Adam and Eve. This suggests the forbidden fruit being seedless fruit. That rules out apples. But not it being a fruit.

Suggesting the tree is metaphorical for Jesus is quite a stretch. Nobody reading Genesis 'as is / literal' will come to that conclusion. If we interpret one verse of Genesis as figurative, where do we draw the line? Was there a man called Adam? Was there a rib used to make Eve? Was creation six days?
 
Loyal
[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]It's easy for us to say they "never should have done it". Maybe we even say "I would have never done it".

But you do it every time you sin. Have you ever sinned? Then you are still disobeying God just like Adam and Eve.[/COLOR]
 
Member
If you were Adam. How long before you would have sinned? It could just as easily have been you or me there.

We are all spiritual beings placed in a weak flesh. Adam was no different to us. Our spirits are eternal. What is 3 million years to eternity?
If I were even Eve, I never would have sinned. Not even in 100 quadrillion years. Especially with just 1 rule to follow. As I have said multiple times before, there weren't 1,663 or 2,000+ rules to obey in the Garden of Eden.

And if I were Eve and facing that serpent, I would have told that serpent; "I am not interested in trying the fruit of this tree you speak of. The fruit of that big tree over there looks more delicious than of this tree. I think I will go try the fruit of that tree over there."

Also when you think about it, 80 years is a very short time. 3 billion years is like an eternity. In fact, 3 billion seconds is 95 years! It literally would take you 95 years counting seconds to count to 3 billion!
 
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If I were even Eve, I never would have sinned. Not even in 100 quadrillion years. Especially with just 1 rule to follow. As I have said multiple times before, there weren't 1,663 or 2,000+ rules to obey in the Garden of Eden.

And if I were Eve and facing that serpent, I would have told that serpent; "I am not interested in trying the fruit of this tree you speak of. The fruit of that big tree over there looks more delicious than of this tree. I think I will go try the fruit of that tree over there."

Also when you think about it, 80 years is a very short time. 3 billion years is like an eternity. In fact, 3 billion seconds is 95 years! It literally would take you 95 years counting seconds to count to 3 billion!
BAC makes a great point. When last did you give in to sin? Adam gave in to 'a' sin. The specifics of the sin are irrelevant.
 
Member
Gen 2:16 Specifically talks about tree's. Gen 1:29 talks about trees that bear fruit with seeds, being created for Adam and Eve. This suggests the forbidden fruit being seedless fruit. That rules out apples. But not it being a fruit.

Suggesting the tree is metaphorical for Jesus is quite a stretch. Nobody reading Genesis 'as is / literal' will come to that conclusion. If we interpret one verse of Genesis as figurative, where do we draw the line? Was there a man called Adam? Was there a rib used to make Eve? Was creation six days?
The Holy Scriptures abound with figures of speech which greatly enhance the power and beauty of God’s Word. For instance, the Promised Land was described as a “land flowing with milk and honey.” What a beautiful image that brings to mind, right? Even the initial words of the Creator to Adam were of a figurative nature. With reference to the forbidden fruit, God said, “in the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die.” (Genesis2:17) That Adam did not literally die the day of his sin is apparent. “Death” also signifies a separation from God. (Isaiah 59:1-2; Ephesians 2:1). ....And isn’t God referred to as the “Rock of Ages?” Oh what a wonderful concept of the security provided by the Lord.

Yes, the Word of God certainly abounds with beautiful figurative language, and I am so very glad that it does.

Selah . . .
 
Loyal
[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]We have to be careful with what's figurative, and what isn't. Especially with Adam and Eve... here is an example.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:12;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:13;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:14;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:15;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:16;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]For the people who believe that Adam was just an abstract of society at that time, and the fruit was just an abstract of miscellaneous sin(s). This passage become problematic.
If sin came to the world (through an abstract of society)
Then does that we are saved by (an abstract of society).
If Jesus is a real man, then Adam has to be a real man.[/COLOR]
 
Member
[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]We have to be careful with what's figurative, and what isn't. Especially with Adam and Eve... here is an example.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:12;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:13;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:14;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:15;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Rom 5:16;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]For the people who believe that Adam was just an abstract of society at that time, and the fruit was just an abstract of miscellaneous sin(s). This passage become problematic.
If sin came to the world (through an abstract of society)
Then does that we are saved by (an abstract of society).
If Jesus is a real man, then Adam has to be a real man.[/COLOR]
Of course, there was an Adam, B-A-C! I never said there wasn’t.

Okay, okay... I give up.

God bless you guys, and farewell. :love:
 
Member
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]I just take the scriptures for what it says, and pray to God for the things that I don't understand[/COLOR]
 
Member
Also if Adam and Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit, Hell would be really empty; the only inhabitants of Hell would be Satan and his demons. But because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, Hell is continuing to fill up with more humans every day. And Hell was not even made for humans. It was made for demons. To make matters worse, the Bible even says that the righteous are scarcely saved.
 
Active
If Adam and Eve had not eaten the fruit of that tree -- then Paradise / Garden of Eden would indeed be 'heaven on earth'.

But that serpent , satan, caused Eve to distrust God's Word and follow satan's deception, instead. And Adam went along with Eve -- when he was told 1st to not eat the fruit. It was just one rule they needed to obey.

What 'one' little 'something' do We do in disobedience?!

God knew from the beginning that That would happen and had already prepared His Son, Jesus Christ , to come into this world to provide our salvation.

The only problem with 'righteousness' is that it tends to be 'our' concept of self-righteousness Instead of righteousness obtain through Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross and His bodily resurrection.

When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, belief in their heart and confession by mouth, the Lord Jesus, Then the Holy Spirit immediately comes / indwells their soul/ heart / and He never leaves that person until he/she is safe with Jesus Christ. People around them can observe the fruits of the Spirit in their lives.

I was just reading 'Mercury 1''s comment in post #21 about Now we have to believe in Jesus And keep all the commandments all the time. No - we Don't. Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "For by Grace you are saved through faith, not of yourself, it is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." One of the main points of this verse is that keeping any of the commandments / trying to keep all of them is impossible. Jesus Christ's shed blood on the cross / His death was enough -- God could then see us / through the blood / just as if we'd never sinned. But -- 'we' need to acknowledge our need For a Savior and accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever believes in Him, will not perish but have everlasting life."
 
Loyal
[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]
Then the Holy Spirit immediately comes / indwells their soul/ heart / and He never leaves that person until he/she is safe with Jesus Christ.
[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]There are scriptures that say just the opposite.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Heb 6:4;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Heb 6:5; [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Heb 6:6; [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]It says these people have been partakers of the Holy Spirit, but then they fall away. Some believe they were never saved in the first place, but if that was the case
they wouldn't be partakers (consumers) of the Holy Spirit. Also Verse 6 wouldn't say renew them "again" to repentance, you can't do something "again" if you've never done it
at least once before. Finally it says they would crucifiy themselves "again" to Christ. You can't do it again, if you've never done it before.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]1 Sam 16:14; Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the Spirit of the LORD had departed from him. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. [/COLOR]
 
Active
The Holy Scriptures abound with figures of speech which greatly enhance the power and beauty of God’s Word. For instance, the Promised Land was described as a “land flowing with milk and honey.” What a beautiful image that brings to mind, right? Even the initial words of the Creator to Adam were of a figurative nature. With reference to the forbidden fruit, God said, “in the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die.” (Genesis2:17) That Adam did not literally die the day of his sin is apparent. “Death” also signifies a separation from God. (Isaiah 59:1-2; Ephesians 2:1). ....And isn’t God referred to as the “Rock of Ages?” Oh what a wonderful concept of the security provided by the Lord.

Yes, the Word of God certainly abounds with beautiful figurative language, and I am so very glad that it does.

Selah . . .
Hi Selah

I do agree that many scriptures are figurative. But not Genesis. We can't cast a blanket of confusion over it just because some scripture is figurative. Genesis says '''seeds in fruit''. Nothing suggests it is to be read figuratively. We do have to be so careful when we say something is figurative. It has to be proven without doubt.

I also disagree with 'death' being figurative. Death in scripture has always been separation from God. We assume its figurative as we have words that overlap. Death to us means cease to exist. Annihilation is a comparable word.
 
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Also if Adam and Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit, Hell would be really empty; the only inhabitants of Hell would be Satan and his demons. But because Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, Hell is continuing to fill up with more humans every day.
This claim has already been debunked here in your thread. Please respond to others post's otherwise you are just coming across as a troll.

And Hell was not even made for humans. It was made for demons. To make matters worse, the Bible even says that the righteous are scarcely saved.
You are miss reading the verse. You think an omniscient God did not expect humans to go to hell?

It is like saying my house is built for my kids. It is also built for me, my wife, my adopted children, my grandparents and any stranger who needs help. So, yes hell was built for fallen angels...….and sinful humans, clearly.
 
Active
[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]There are scriptures that say just the opposite.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Heb 6:4;[/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Heb 6:5; [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)]Heb 6:6; [/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]It says these people have been partakers of the Holy Spirit, but then they fall away. Some believe they were never saved in the first place, but if that was the case
they wouldn't be partakers (consumers) of the Holy Spirit. Also Verse 6 wouldn't say renew them "again" to repentance, you can't do something "again" if you've never done it
at least once before. Finally it says they would crucifiy themselves "again" to Christ. You can't do it again, if you've never done it before.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]1 Sam 16:14; Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the Spirit of the LORD had departed from him. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]Psa 51:11; Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. [/COLOR]


In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit Did come and go from people. In the New Testament the Holy Spirit Did come on the Day of Pentecost.

It's Also possible that those verses in Hebrews talk about those whom the Holy Spirit has been convicting and the person rejects that convicting -- or they have seen the Holy Spirit work in other people's lives who they know personally -- so His working in lives is observed up close -- and they Still reject what they observe and turn away. There is nothing more for them to observe or accept. They've heard the Gospel unto salvation -- have had people sit down with them -- share on a personal basis and the person refuses to accept.

The Psalms passage -- there is a lot of emotion expressed in the Psalms -- in That passage -- the prophet Nathan has approached King David after he'd committed adultery with Bathsheba -- the previous verse is saying "Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me. and vs 12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me."

Again -- in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit Did come and go from people. David didn't want his sin to cause the Holy Spirit To leave him.

Look at Ephesians 1:11-14 is the entire passage. but especially vs 13 - 14 "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit , who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession -- to the praise of His glory."
 
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Loyal
In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit Did come and go from people. In the New Testament the Holy Spirit Did come on the Day of Pentecost.
Why do you think this has changed? Is there any scripture that says the Holy Spirit never leaves you? Or does it say it will never leave the church?
Also keep in mind, Acts 2 is about the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which is different from the in-filling of the Holy Spirit.

It's Also possible that those verses in Hebrews talk about those whom the Holy Spirit has been convicting and the person rejects that convicting -
No, that can't be possible, because those people are never "partakers". Also, the two times it says "again" would not apply.

Again -- in the Old Testament the Holy Spirit Did come and go from people. David didn't want his sin to cause the Holy Spirit To leave him.
It would have if he wouldn't have repented.

Eph 1:11-14; the seal. A seal doesn't mean a letter can't be opened, it only means it's only opened by the one who it is sent to.
 
Loyal
very interesting topic if the holly spirit will ever leave you. I have never thought of it before. Interesting article here on it

Will the Holy Spirit ever leave a believer?

Prior to Christ’s death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people. The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14). Instead, the Spirit came upon David (1 Samuel 16:13). After his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him (Psalm 51:11). The Holy Spirit filled Bezalel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:2-5), but this is not described as a permanent relationship. All of this changed after Jesus’ ascension into heaven. Beginning on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers (Acts 2). The permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us and never forsake us.

While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit” (Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
very interesting topic if the holly spirit will ever leave you. I have never thought of it before. Interesting article here on it

Will the Holy Spirit ever leave a believer?

Prior to Christ’s death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven, the Holy Spirit had a “come and go” relationship with people. The Holy Spirit indwelt King Saul, but then departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14). Instead, the Spirit came upon David (1 Samuel 16:13). After his adultery with Bathsheba, David feared that the Holy Spirit would be taken from him (Psalm 51:11). The Holy Spirit filled Bezalel to enable him to produce the items needed for the tabernacle (Exodus 31:2-5), but this is not described as a permanent relationship. All of this changed after Jesus’ ascension into heaven. Beginning on the day of Pentecost, the Holy Spirit began permanently indwelling believers (Acts 2). The permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the fulfillment of God’s promise to always be with us and never forsake us.

While the Holy Spirit will never leave a believer, it is possible for our sin to “quench the Holy Spirit” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) or “grieve the Holy Spirit” (Ephesians 4:30). Sin always has consequences in our relationship with God. While our relationship with God is secure in Christ, unconfessed sin in our lives can hinder our fellowship with God and effectively quench the Holy Spirit’s working in our lives. That is why it is so important to confess our sins because God is “faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). So, while the Holy Spirit will never leave us, the benefits and joy of His presence can in fact depart from us.
Well written...Has it ever ocurred to you, the Holy Spirit is a part of us, we carry the very DNA of God..He is blended in us, with us, and we with Him. If the Holy spirit left us, it would rip our DNA apart and kill us. (Just my understanding of the dynamics of it all.)
 
Loyal
Well written...Has it ever ocurred to you, the Holy Spirit is a part of us, we carry the very DNA of God..He is blended in us, with us, and we with Him. If the Holy spirit left us, it would rip our DNA apart and kill us. (Just my understanding of the dynamics of it all.)
Why didn't you "rip apart" before you were saved? Did you have the Holy Spirit then?
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
Why didn't you "rip apart" before you were saved? Did you have the Holy Spirit then?
Before I was saved, I was old and dead in sin.. but when I was saved I was in Christ, and He in me...I was born again a brand new creation...something that did not exist before...part me, and part Holy Spirit. You could say, and I do say, we are hybrids...We are part man and part God, since He is incorporated with and in us. A brand new creation, more than just human...
 

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