If only Adam and Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit!

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In the beginning, God created Adam and Eve. They were perfect. Immortality was default and infinity was the default lifespan of individuals, especially those who eat of the Tree of Life and continue to eat of the Tree of Life. Earth and Heaven were both man's home.

But they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and destroyed everything. In the beginning, there was but one commandment. No eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now we have roughly 1,667 commandments that have to be perfectly obeyed.

How I so wish I had a time machine so I could go back to the time of Adam and Eve and stop them from eating of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. I would tell them all about Hell. I would tell them about spiritual death. I think I would even trim the tree of knowledge of good and evil so Adam and Eve could never reach it's fruits, nor could they climb the tree either.

I am so infuriated every time I see videos on the Internet of them eating the forbidden fruit. Because of them, our lives are now temporal, we have to perfectly keep 1,667 hard commandments, the way back to eternal life is narrow and involves both, believing in Jesus and perfectly obeying every single commandment between Genesis and Revelation without fault. Even today, there is an Internet preacher who goes by the screen name "finalcall07" that tells us we have to be as perfect as God Himself in our own strength and obedience to God's laws, and if we stumble, we get destroyed in Hell.
 
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Choice is important to created beings with souls. Without choice, there is no love. Do you think God somehow did evil by setting the Tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?
 
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the way back to eternal life
They didn't have eternal life; they had human life; which is a creature's kind of life rather than the creator's.

They didn't even have immortality. Fruit from the tree of life would've protected them from dying of natural causes, but it would not've protected them from dying of other causes, e.g. drowning, smothering, falling, impaling, starvation, brain damage, crushing, bleeding out, etc.

I don't know why so many people seem to think the first couple was superhuman prior to eating the forbidden fruit because they weren't. The only significant difference between their situation and ours is the quality of their medications.

Rev 22:2 . . The leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
_
 
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Choice is important to created beings with souls. Without choice, there is no love. Do you think God somehow did evil by setting the Tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden?
Choice or not, it was still very wrong of Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And Even could have so very easily just told that serpent; "The fruit of that big tree over there looks much more delicious than this tree. I think I will go try the fruit of that one.
 
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Choice or not, it was still very wrong of Adam and Eve to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And Even could have so very easily just told that serpent; "The fruit of that big tree over there looks much more delicious than this tree. I think I will go try the fruit of that one.
God knew a creation beneath the angels (who fell) would also fall. He factored a fall into His equation / creation. The serpent and the tree simply helped to speed up an inevitability. God put the serpent in the garden.

Jesus and the cross was planned before the foundations of the earth. Lions with big teeth, lay with lambs.

Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
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What you also have to understand is that Adam and Eve's sin resulted in banishment to …..earth. A place in death, outside of God's presence. But not a place in death on par with the lake of fire.

We are responsible for placing ourselves in hell / eternal lake of fire. Not God, not Adam, not Eve, not serpent, not tree.
 
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Jesus even said that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" will stay out of the fires of Hell. To me, that means there are even already people who have struggled and fought to stay out of there and enter Heaven, but they did not make it.
 
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Jesus even said that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" will stay out of the fires of Hell. To me, that means there are even already people who have struggled and fought to stay out of there and enter Heaven, but they did not make it.
Hi Mercury.

Please look closer at the verse you quoting.

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!

These people are trying to justify themselves to Jesus by the miraculous things they did in His name. I do not believe they fulfilled a verse like Psalm 51:17 or bothered to grasp a verse like James 1:27. They were more interested in those things of God that gave them glory. Note Jesus calls them 'evildoers'. Not ''unlucky people''.

James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Psalm 51:17 My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart you, God, will not despise.
 
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Jesus even said that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" will stay out of the fires of Hell. To me, that means there are even already people who have struggled and fought to stay out of there and enter Heaven, but they did not make it.
Ha! If you had gone back in time to stop Adam and/or Eve from sinning then you would have. Or anybody else would have...We're not smarter than Satan. He would have fooled somebody into sinning...Now if Satan had never existed...that would be different. Man cannot sin without he is tempted by Satan or one of his minions. So now you have to go back in time to stop God from creating Lucifer. LOL God couldn't have known what was to happen could He? Yeah Right!
But instead of bemoaning the fact that Adam gave away our rights to rule this planet, factor in Romans 8:28 and see what you get. " 28 Furthermore, we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called in accordance with his purpose; 29 because those whom he knew in advance, he also determined in advance would be conformed to the pattern of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers; 30 and those whom he thus determined in advance, he also called; and those whom he called, he also caused to be considered righteous; and those whom he caused to be considered righteous he also glorified!"
If Adam had never sinned, If no man ever sinned, yes, we would be walking in intimate fellowship with God, which in itself would be wonderful. We would not have to go through all this junk in this world, and we would not be as strong as we will be when we finally walk in intimate fellowship with Him uninterrupted. RIGHT NOW, however, we can walk in intimate fellowship with Him. Right now we are training to rule with Him in eternity...If we rule with Him, then there must be something and someone to rule. So who is that? The unsaved? They will all be in the lake of fire with their father the devil. So who will we rule? Ponder that....What ifs......Spit in one hand and 'what if' into the other and see which fills first.
 
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Greetings @Mercury1and everyone

An interesting conversation.

However, pondering over things we may never fully comprehend/understand in this life is pretty futile.

Looking at the facts and the things we know for certain brings joyous hope and peace...

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 5:12

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord
Romans 6:23

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Praise the Lord, there is a way back to God, through Jesus.
Ponder Him and be blessed.
 
Loyal Member
How would anyone know what victory was if you never experience defeat! How could anyone comprehend life, if you never experience death? How would anyone know how to exercise faith if there was no need to exercise faith. Adam, and Eve had knowledge of what was good, but they did not know the knowledge of evil until they disobeyed God's command. How would anyone understand the Love of God, if God never came to died for his creation that he did not deserve. Thank God the lord knew what Adam, and Eve would do that set up his eternal plan so we could know all these things. What the devil meant for our harm, God meant for our good!.(Gen 50:20)
 
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What if I told you that Heaven's population is about 75,000 and Hell's population is 539,000,000,000? Even Jesus said that the way back to life is narrow and hard, and that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" will stay out of the eternal fires of Hell. There are people who testify seeing Christians in Hell. To me, they are testifying that the Christians in Hell thought they were doing a great job, but they did not achieve total, sinless perfection via their own works while on the Earth. One person claims to have been given tours of Hell and says that certain people were there for adultery, some for fornication, some for robbery, some for not paying their tithes and offerings, and even some for not "keeping Sundays holy."
 
Active Member
In the beginning, God created Adam and Eve. They were perfect. Immortality was default and infinity was the default lifespan of individuals, especially those who eat of the Tree of Life and continue to eat of the Tree of Life. Earth and Heaven were both man's home.

But they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and destroyed everything. In the beginning, there was but one commandment. No eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Now we have roughly 1,667 commandments that have to be perfectly obeyed.

How I so wish I had a time machine so I could go back to the time of Adam and Eve and stop them from eating of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. I would tell them all about Hell. I would tell them about spiritual death. I think I would even trim the tree of knowledge of good and evil so Adam and Eve could never reach it's fruits, nor could they climb the tree either.

I am so infuriated every time I see videos on the Internet of them eating the forbidden fruit. Because of them, our lives are now temporal, we have to perfectly keep 1,667 hard commandments, the way back to eternal life is narrow and involves both, believing in Jesus and perfectly obeying every single commandment between Genesis and Revelation without fault. Even today, there is an Internet preacher who goes by the screen name "finalcall07" that tells us we have to be as perfect as God Himself in our own strength and obedience to God's laws, and if we stumble, we get destroyed in Hell.
I believe you are talking about the Jews under the Old Covenant in how they were to obtain salvation by as well as living as His people in representing Him as the God of Israel.

They have failed which is why Jesus Christ had come. What was impossible with men, is possible with God. Man had their turn; now it is God's turn. That is why Jesus Christ is the Saviour because He has done what Jews could not do by the deeds of the law in obtaining salvation; and now we are to apply the same faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in helping us to understand His words in the KJV and lean on Him to help us abide in Him in living this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ as His disciple. By the grace of God and faith in Him as our Saviour are we saved, then by the grace of God and by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd is how we follow Him.. That is why little children are free to come to Him because all they can do is trust the Lord at His word; Mark 10:13-15 KJV

Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Hebrews 4:1Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.....
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2 Timothy 4: 18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


So if you are looking to yourself in keeping the laws of God like the Jews were under the Old Covenant, then you need to ask Jesus for help to look to Him to place all your hopes on Him that you are saved now and He will help you to follow Him by the grace of God as well. That is why it is written simply that the just shall live by faith... in Him and all His promises to us...something little children can do and are entering into the kingdom of Heaven by trusting Jesus Christ at His word.
 
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Jesus even said that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" will stay out of the fires of Hell. To me, that means there are even already people who have struggled and fought to stay out of there and enter Heaven, but they did not make it.
Jesus did not really say that. You are assuming that is what He has meant, but it is not.

Your paraphrasing that reference of Matthew 7:21-23 KJV is understandable from the countless erroneous commentaries that you may have come across, but such commenatries are not lining up with the rest of scripture in the N.T.

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV has Jesus denying them BECAUSE they were workers of iniquity. Any saved believer that has an unrepentant work of iniquity is actually denying Jesus by that work; Titus 1:16 KJV. So any unrepentant work of iniquity by the believer is the same as the believer denying Jesus verbally and thus winding up having Jesus denying them ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) but that is in reference to being disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the pre great trib rapture event when you compare Matthew 7:21-23 KJV with Luke 13:24-30 KJV
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Those left behind as disqualified as castaways will become vessels unto dishonor in His House. Why? Because although the works that deny Him was built on that foundation and gets burned up off of that foundation, that foundation which was laid by Jesus Christ remains ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 KJV ) God will judge every Christian that day when He comes as the Bridegroom ( 1 Corinthians 3:13 KJV & 1 Peter 4:17-19 KJV ) and any that defile the temple of God ( 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 KJV )which is our bodies ( 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 KJV ), will incur physical death as this warning was given to the church at Thyatira to repent or be cast into the bed of the great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-25 KJV . BUT the spirit is still saved as 1 Corinthians 3:15 KJV says, because they will be vessels unto dishonor in His House to testify to the power of God in salvation for all those that believe in Him, even in His name ( John 1:12-13 KJV )


Did you know that Jesus still abides in former believers? 2 Timothy 2:13 testifies to that truth. So when you read Ephesians 4:30 about how the Holy Spirit cannot leave you, then you can understand how Jesus Christ is keeping the Father's will of not losing any one He has saved that believes in Him in John 6:38-40 KJV . That is why the call to depart from iniquity is given even to former believers to depart from iniquity ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 KJV ) by going to Jesus Christ in prayer for help ( Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV ) in discerning the lies that turned them away from Him so they can repent and believe in Him once more and keep on believing in Him as their Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him by faith in His promises to us.
Anyway, if you hold your mouse pointer over those scriptural references, it should pop up a small window to read those scripture in the KJV. I hope Jesus will help you to understand why He is the Good News to man.


Discipleship which is what running that race is about, by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin, is separate from salvation which is the free gift of eternal life for all those that believe in Jesus Christ.

Romans 5: 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Loyal Member
What if I told you that Heaven's population is about 75,000 and Hell's population is 539,000,000,000? Even Jesus said that the way back to life is narrow and hard, and that not everyone who calls Him "Lord" will stay out of the eternal fires of Hell. There are people who testify seeing Christians in Hell. To me, they are testifying that the Christians in Hell thought they were doing a great job, but they did not achieve total, sinless perfection via their own works while on the Earth. One person claims to have been given tours of Hell and says that certain people were there for adultery, some for fornication, some for robbery, some for not paying their tithes and offerings, and even some for not "keeping Sundays holy."
Stop reading fictional books written by people who want to make a quick dollar.

Nobody achieves sinless perfection. Only God is perfect. He just wants us to be after His heart and choose Him over not choosing Him.

Those who go to hell choose hell. They love what is wicked more then they hate it. They do not want to repent.
 
Jesus did not really say that. You are assuming that is what He has meant, but it is not.

Your paraphrasing that reference of Matthew 7:21-23 KJV is understandable from the countless erroneous commentaries that you may have come across, but such commenatries are not lining up with the rest of scripture in the N.T.

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV has Jesus denying them BECAUSE they were workers of iniquity. Any saved believer that has an unrepentant work of iniquity is actually denying Jesus by that work; Titus 1:16 KJV. So any unrepentant work of iniquity by the believer is the same as the believer denying Jesus verbally and thus winding up having Jesus denying them ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) but that is in reference to being disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven at the pre great trib rapture event when you compare Matthew 7:21-23 KJV with Luke 13:24-30 KJV
As I have said, today, we have more than 1,500 commandments from God that have to be followed and obeyed. In the Garden of Eden, there was but 1 commandment. And even "finalcall07" preaches that it takes both faith in Jesus and perfect obedience to all of the more than 1,500 commandments to stay out of the fires of Hell. To me, according to "finalcall07," Jesus only forgives each individual once. In one of his preachings, he even compares it all to a marathon in which only the one in first place gets eternal life, like the one in first place going through a set of steel doors opened to even 18 inches that immediately slam closed about a foot behind the winner.

Plus where I live, there is a group of street preachers with bullhorns that walk around saying the same thing as finalcall07; that escape from the fires of Hell requires both, faith in Jesus and good works/perfect obedience to all 1,663 commandments. From the way those guys preach, to them, compared to the size of an adult human, the path to Heaven is even a 1 inch wide crevasse through a granite cliff, and the path to Hell is as wide as the Grand Canyon. And those guys with the bullhorns can be seen on the beach and at half the city events.
 
I also believe that, if Adam and Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit, we all would have access to the Tree of Life. And if you continue to periodically eat of the Tree of Life, you would live indefinitely. I can even literally imagine people living as long as 250,000 years, possibly even as long as 3,000,000,000 years if they continued to eat of the Tree of Life.
 
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As I have said, today, we have more than 1,500 commandments from God that have to be followed and obeyed.
Matt 22:37-40 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Jesus only forgives each individual once
Once is all that is needed.
 
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I also believe that, if Adam and Eve had never eaten the forbidden fruit, we all would have access to the Tree of Life. And if you continue to periodically eat of the Tree of Life, you would live indefinitely. I can even literally imagine people living as long as 250,000 years, possibly even as long as 3,000,000,000 years if they continued to eat of the Tree of Life.
If you were Adam. How long before you would have sinned? It could just as easily have been you or me there.

We are all spiritual beings placed in a weak flesh. Adam was no different to us. Our spirits are eternal. What is 3 million years to eternity?
 

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