Hierarchy & Unity premise

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me
The Creator preceds the beginning and has no beginning; Hear his words spoken thru Isaiah

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

You just provided another proof that the Son of God was not formed nor created and for Jesus Christ to be called the Saviour and yet God is the Saviour, then that's the Triune God whereas Three Persons exists in that One God.

 

[Ivar]

You just provided another proof that the Son of God was not formed nor created and for Jesus Christ to be called the Saviour and yet God is the Saviour, then that's the Triune God whereas Three Persons exists in that One God.

@JesusIs4Me
The reason I am a bit more silent now is because I am restraining myself. You may not see it but ever since your #35 post " well before that" but specifically since your #35; I will try it this way? Do you have any questions for me before i continue?

 

[Ivar]

You just provided another proof that the Son of God was not formed nor created and for Jesus Christ to be called the Saviour and yet God is the Saviour, then that's the Triune God whereas Three Persons exists in that One God.

Quite the opposite once one has the scriptures to back it up; The Son is an appointed Savior.

 

[Ivar]

You just provided another proof that the Son of God was not formed nor created and for Jesus Christ to be called the Saviour and yet God is the Saviour, then that's the Triune God whereas Three Persons exists in that One God.

@JesusIs4Me
The reason I am a bit more silent now is because I am restraining myself. You may not see it but ever since your #35 post " well before that" but specifically since your #35; I will try it this way? Do you have any questions for me before i continue?

Quite the opposite once one has the scriptures to back it up; The Son is an appointed Savior.

Saviour https://www.talkjesus.com/threads/saviour.62524/

 

[Ivar]

Have you considered that the firstborn of all creation is signifying the Creator? Pick a species and say that first born of that species on the day it was created, is where all the different variation of that species came from. So the firstborn of all creation is signifying where all creation came from as from the Creator, would it not?

John did say that no man had seen God at any time, but John did report twice that Jesus said that He has seen God the Father;

But scripture in the O.T. as written by Moses as led by the Holy Spirit, testify of men having seen God; so when you put them all together; no man had seen God the Father, but men had seen God the Son in the O.T. BEFORE His incarnation.

The Lord had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob and even Moses.... and He spoke through the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 48:16-17 where the Lord God is speaking and yet it is the Lord God and His Spirit that will send Him as that prophesy was fulfilled in Matthew 3:15-17 at Jesus's water baptism.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Definition of FIRSTBORN

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me
The reason I am a bit more silent now is because I am restraining myself. You may not see it but ever since your #35 post " well before that" but specifically since your #35; I will try it this way? Do you have any questions for me before i continue?

Not after the way you had replied in post #36 as signifying you do not agree with my explanation given for the question that was given in post # 35. I accept that you are not seeing it, brother. It is on God to cause the increase anyway.

Is there any question for me that I have not answered or better yet, a question for which you feel the need to ask to continue the progress of our discussion?

 

[Ivar]

Have you considered that the firstborn of all creation is signifying the Creator? Pick a species and say that first born of that species on the day it was created, is where all the different variation of that species came from. So the firstborn of all creation is signifying where all creation came from as from the Creator, would it not?

John did say that no man had seen God at any time, but John did report twice that Jesus said that He has seen God the Father;

But scripture in the O.T. as written by Moses as led by the Holy Spirit, testify of men having seen God; so when you put them all together; no man had seen God the Father, but men had seen God the Son in the O.T. BEFORE His incarnation.

The Lord had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob and even Moses.... and He spoke through the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 48:16-17 where the Lord God is speaking and yet it is the Lord God and His Spirit that will send Him as that prophesy was fulfilled in Matthew 3:15-17 at Jesus's water baptism.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

@JesusIs4Me
Why games being played with scriptures?
Have you yourself considered that the son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:?
We not going pretend we don't have access to dictionary or Greek strongs concordance either
Definition of FIRSTBORN
Col 1:15 WhoG3739 isG2076 the imageG1504 of theG3588 invisibleG517 God,G2316 the firstbornG4416 of everyG3956 creature:G2937

(KJV) https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g4416
πρωτότοκος prōtótokos, pro-tot-ok'-os; from G4413 and the alternate of G5088; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):—firstbegotten(-born).
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Have you considered that the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: is not talking about our only True God The Father?

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

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[JesusIs4Me]

Quite the opposite once one has the scriptures to back it up; The Son is an appointed Savior.

And yet God has said that no one is, nor will be beside Him in the future; no one else, let alone any "God" formed, because there is no other God, will share in His glory of what He will do unless His name should be polluted. Here is your reference again.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So don't let "appointed" limit what other scripture is plainly declaring that Jesus is God of the Triune God as that is the Word of God that has been speaking to you even in the scripture of the O.T.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus cannot say those things in the O.T. & the N.T. unless He was and is God and always has been of the Triune God.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Definition of FIRSTBORN

You seem to be reading your belief in His words whereas I am reading my belief in His words. So ask Him who is right while He helps me to show you.

I do not believe the topic shifted to the Father in that reference when it began speaking about the Son because in context, Paul still is. You seem to think being firstborn meaning created and yet you had provided scripture that in Isaiah 43:10-11 that proves you are reading His words wrong. Being the firstborn of all creation signifies Him as the Creator from which all creation comes from. That was my point of referring to a created specie whereby all variation of that species comes from.

 

[Ivar]

And yet God has said that no one is, nor will be beside Him in the future; no one else, let alone any "God" formed, because there is no other God, will share in His glory of what He will do unless His name should be polluted. Here is your reference again.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So don't let "appointed" limit what other scripture is plainly declaring that Jesus is God of the Triune God as that is the Word of God that has been speaking to you even in the scripture of the O.T.

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Jesus cannot say those things in the O.T. & the N.T. unless He was and is God and always has been of the Triune God.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

 

[Ivar]

You seem to be reading your belief in His words whereas I am reading my belief in His words. So ask Him who is right while He helps me to show you.

I do not believe the topic shifted to the Father in that reference when it began speaking about the Son because in context, Paul still is. You seem to think being firstborn meaning created and yet you had provided scripture that in Isaiah 43:10-11 that proves you are reading His words wrong. Being the firstborn of all creation signifies Him as the Creator from which all creation comes from. That was my point of referring to a created specie whereby all variation of that species comes from.

@JesusIs4Me

Definition of firstborn please.

 

[Ivar]

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

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Mind of Christ????
That's interesting. What did Christ say?

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Definition of ONLY

 

[Ivar]

@JesusIs4Me
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

1Jn 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
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You confessing to me that God is one in three persons and that the Son is God

Where specifically verbatim! verbaitm?:
Does it specifically say that The Son is God "specifically every iota"
Does it specifically say that God is one in three persons "specifically every iota"

Too many games being played???:crying:
And if i get too uppity on their platform with the sword Caesar will close my post because their platform?:crying:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me

Definition of firstborn please.

You can't use a man's dictionary; you have to discern with Him by how it is applied in His words without opposing anything else said about the Son of God in regards to His deity.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

------------------------------------------
Mind of Christ????
That's interesting. What did Christ say?

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Definition of ONLY

Jesus included Himself in with Him for His prayer for them knowing the only true God.

Do note how Jesus prayed for the Father to glorify the Son with Himself. You had provided scripture that should prove to you that the Father would not do such a thing unless Jesus is God.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me
Why games being played with scriptures?
Have you yourself considered that the son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:?
We not going pretend we don't have access to dictionary or Greek strongs concordance either
Definition of FIRSTBORN
Col 1:15 WhoG3739 isG2076 the imageG1504 of theG3588 invisibleG517 God,G2316 the firstbornG4416 of everyG3956 creature:G2937

(KJV) https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=kjv&strongs=g4416
πρωτότοκος prōtótokos, pro-tot-ok'-os; from G4413 and the alternate of G5088; first-born (usually as noun, literally or figuratively):—firstbegotten(-born).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you considered that the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: is not talking about our only True God The Father?

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

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No games being played here, brother. You are providing the very scripture that is opposing your belief, but you do not seem to see it.

Is God really invisible? Does Strong's Concordance really to be taken at face value when invisible was also used in regards to Jesus Christ?

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So invisible here means what in both of those references? Not presently seen.

That means God the Father ALSO has an image from which mankind was created from for why the request "Let US make man in OUR image" is applied towards but when the Triune God agreed, it as as the One God..

 

[Ivar]

Jesus included Himself in with Him for His prayer for them knowing the only true God.

Do note how Jesus prayed for the Father to glorify the Son with Himself. You had provided scripture that should prove to you that the Father would not do such a thing unless Jesus is God.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

@JesusIs4Me
:grin:
Ok I'll bite.
Jesus included himself but the Holy Spirit was not included.
So The Father and The Son are the only true God and God is one in two persons instead of one in three persons?
Yay or Nay? and if Nay why not?
--------------------------------------------------------------

Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Do You Understand the Words That Are Coming Out of his Mouth?

How about His words here?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

So believe that Jesus is God as well.

 

[Ivar]

How about His words here?

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

So believe that Jesus is God as well.

No quite the contrary.
Based off of verse 2 in that same Chapter; I believe if God asked the Son for rent; The Son would reply "How much?"

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

 

[JesusIs4Me]

@JesusIs4Me
:grin:
Ok I'll bite.
Jesus included himself but the Holy Spirit was not included.
So The Father and The Son are the only true God and God is one in two persons instead of one in three persons?

Well, this is where I deviate from the man made doctrine of the Trinity where in that modified Nicene creed, they began the man made unBiblical practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

The Holy Spirit is God but by His words, He is sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) THRU us ( John 15:27 ); He cannot lead believers to speak of Himself in seeking His own glory in worship.

Those who come to God the Father in worship; no matter where they are, can only come to Him by the only way of the Son as Jesus meant what He has said especially to be applied in worship John 14:6 To climb up around the Son in any other way like by way of the Holy Spirit or by way of the name of the "Trinity" is not according to the will of the Father as per John 10:1 because the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son in worship John 5:23. The moment you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father; Since the Holy Spirit is sent to honor the Son by testifying of Him to glorify Him THRU US, then that goes beyond just missionary outreach, but in prayer, fellowship, & worship.

Jesus warned about those who would broaden the way in Matthew 7:13-14 and the solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate in Luke 13:24 Holy rollers that boast of the Holy Spirit falling on believers in these movements of the spirit like slain in the spirit and holy laughter, are those that profess Him by signs and lying wonders in His name but are in iniquity for glorifying the movements of the spirit in His name when they are actually glorifying the visitations of the spirit of the antichrist in Matthew 7:21-23 for which many fall by in Matthew 7:24-27. This also include sensing what they believe is His Presence in the worship place when they hold communion or when receiving Him per the Eucharist in the Mass as eating and drinking in His Presence in Luke 13:25-30 for why those professing Him will be left behind also.

So in a nut shell, the real indwelling Holy Spirit as a Witness thru us where we also bear the same witness so that when we are preaching the gospel all by ourselves... the Holy Spirit's witness coupled with ours is true in any missionary outreach and so in order for our witness to be true in worship, the Holy Spirit cannot be included in that worship of the Son with the Father, because that witness in worship cannot be true when it is not led by the Spirit of God to say. Only the spirits of the antichrist would try to seduce believers to take their eyes off of the Son in worship in seeking their visitations in the worship place whereby this iniquity of broadening the way in the worship place in coming to God the Father by comes from.

Have you noticed how Pentecostal/Charismatics/Catholics will believe that slain in the spirit is not of the Lord, but they believe in the same rudiment of seeking to receive the Holy Spirit in the worship place and some believe they can receive the Holy Spirit again after a sign of tongues.. and even worse.. believe they can still continue to receive Him again and again and again after other signs? They prayed to the Holy Spirit, and that happens. Why would God allow that to happen? Because God the Father said there is only one way to approach Him and that is by the only way of the Son. He had His Son declare His words and yet we all seem to have been influenced by that "ecumenical creed" as gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles which is the fruit of the false prophet Matthew 7:13-17 So mystery Babylon happened at the modified Nicene creed for why tongues were not coming with interpretation & thus assumed as a prayer language when it was not nor what they had received apart from salvation as being the Holy Spirit.

I digress... The Holy Spirit is God but because of His words and the Father's will, His role is to honor the Son by tetsifying of the Son in seeking His glory and by Him, the glory of God the Father. John 13:31-32 cites the only way God is glorified is by glorifying the Son Whom is God. The glory of the Son was His obedience to go to the cross and His resurrection is the glory of God and His ascension into Heaven is God's way provided since God is bringing us back to God the Father.