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Hierarchy & Unity premise

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Hierarchy & Unity premise
"Dividing Scripture"
32 Total Verses​

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Rom 1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Joh 4:34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Isa 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Joh 5:22 The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: * 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your

1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
 
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I for one, don't have a problem with there being hierarchy in the God-head. But that doesn't change the fact it is ONE God.
 
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@B-A-C
Questions
1. What is your complete understanding of :
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

2. How many times is the greekword for Godhead " theiotēs " used and what is the actual meaning?

3. {At a minimum being a witness or being able to testify "means being present"} Does being a witness automatically make one a God?

4. Does the words of Christ conform to his Apostles or does the words of Christ Apostles conform to his words?

5. Since we are conversing in English; What does Theo mean? What does Head mean? "excluding upper body part above neck and male privy member"?

Few references for convenience:

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

G2305 θειότης - Strong's Greek Lexicon

Definition of WITNESS

Definition of HEAD

the definition of theo-
 
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1. In the context of your question, your reference verse does a good job answering this. Godhead in this context = divine nature. Divinty, Diety, God.

2. I don't have my lexicons with me at this moment, but I will look.

3. No, being a witness to God, does not make you a god. Otherwise everyone would be god, which in essence is saying the same thing as no one is a god.

4. The Apostle "should" conform to Christ, however this is a voluntary choice, and not automatic.

5. Theo = God deity, divinty, In the context head = central core. Must like the US government is the "head" of the United State. This also is broken into three
parts, the legislative, the judicial, and the executive branches. But it's still "one" government of one country.
 
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In the context of Rom 1:20; what this verse is really saying is... people who don't believe in God don't have any excuse. His divine nature is revealed in the creation of the world (universe, everything).

It's saying the world didn't happen randomly or by chance... by it is the result a divine plan of God. People that refuse to acknowledge that... are "without excuse".
 
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@B-A-C
Question 4 Clarification:
When it comes to us readers? : Should the words of Christ conform to his Apostles ; or Should the words of Christ Apostles conform to his words?

Further Questions

6. Is there a Triune / Trinitarian aspect in God's divine nature / divinity or is there a Hierarchy?

7. Is there mention of the Holy Spirit's Will or Christs will? or is there only The Father's will / authority?

8. Is a Trinity and Hierarchy the same thing?
 
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I'm sorry Ivar...Your premise is religious nonsense. Again it contradicts scripture...Even some of the verses you quoted here.
@Bendito
if your accusations are empty with no substantial proof or validation behind them then what do you expect my reply to be?
 
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@Bendito
if your accusations are empty with no substantial proof or validation behind them then what do you expect my reply to be?
Well, I just gave you a verse as an example that the Word IS God. That is proof.
You can do with it whatever you want. You can believe the Word or you can call God a liar. It's your choice.
 
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Well, I just gave you a verse as an example that the Word IS God. That is proof.
You can do with it whatever you want. You can believe the Word or you can call God a liar. It's your choice.
@Bendito
Situational Awareness please. You may have given to me in the other post. John 1:1 is valid and if you noticed I did not mention it under my Hierarchy and Unity but mainly because it is too commonly misunderstood
 
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@Bendito
Situational Awareness please. You may have given to me in the other post. John 1:1 is valid and if you noticed I did not mention it under my Hierarchy and Unity but mainly because it is too commonly misunderstood
John 1:1 (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
LOL Well sir....Please set us straight
 
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@JesusIs4Me this is an older post that I was using to show there is Only one God and One Hierarchy. Not one God in three persons.

and here is another post showing scriptures that people use to Justify Trinity

Trinity
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This is an extensive topic I've looked into on multiple fronts

and to give further context

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
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@JesusIs4Me this is an older post that I was using to show there is Only one God and One Hierarchy. Not one God in three persons.

and here is another post showing scriptures that people use to Justify Trinity

Trinity
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is an extensive topic I've looked into on multiple fronts

and to give further context

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
I understand your point of view but when other scripture in that Bible testify to the contrary, then you are misapplying His words when you deny the deity of Christ.

It's like this.. we have one scripture that says the Holy Spirit speaks...

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Some will argue by taking that verse to mean the Holy Spirit can speak on His own accord and speak His own words. They can even add this verse as well while grossly overlooking what all the verse says.

Matthew 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So how do we address those in error for taking 1 Timothy 4:1 out of context of the entire scripture of just how the Holy Spirit really speak? I mean we speak.. scripture has Peter and Paul speaking, but we understand that the Holy Spirit is speaking through them, and yet at the same time, we understand that it is not the Holy Spirit actually speaking as He is only speaking what He hears.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So to get at the truth in His words, we have to line up all the scripture so that no assumptions are made by taking scripture out of context in developing doctrines that deny other parts of scripture.

Jesus is the Son of Man and the Son of God; He gave up His deity in being incarnated into that lowly servant to the obedience of the cross, but that in no wise denies His deity as God. So hwo does one relate His words to God greater than Him? One can attest to the mind of Christ where He for a time, took on a body of a servant but that in no way is He denying His equality with God.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

What is the result of His obedience?

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

How can His name be above God's name to be glorified as that glory is shared by God the Father and yet God would not share His glory with any one else? That can only happen because Jesus is God

s 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
This is true when you accept that there are Three Persons within that One God. How is it that the demons "Legion" fear Him unless they know He is God?
 
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@JesusIs4Me
If possible I would need clarification on these four questions and if you feel like any of the questions is putting words in your mouth then please correct me.
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1. Is Holy Spirit speaking expressly own Will or Will of The Heavenly Father?
2. Are you saying that prior to Christ taking on flesh; he was never the Son of God?
3. Are you saying that the son was always equal with the Father except for when he was in the Flesh of Men?
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Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

4. Are you saying that the name of Christ is not only above every name in regards to Creation but also on par and equal to the name of The Father because they are one in the same?
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The Legions fear him because he is One Lord, One Authority, One Will. They know that his Authority is not divided. They know they cannot go to another God for grievances or protection because

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
 
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Questions one could ask those who agree with a Triune or Trinity are

#1 Did the word become the Son of God before he came in the flesh or after he came in the flesh?
#2 When did the word become the firstborn of all creation?
#3 Does God have a beginning?
#4 Has man seen God at any time?
#5 Was God numbered with the transgressors?
#6 Does One Lord have one in three authorities or one in three wills?
#7 Does being a witness equate to being a God; or does it equate to being present for something?
#8 According to the end is their mention of one in three persons or One God?
#9 Is God a servant?
#10 Is God a prophet?
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Lastly found this to be an interesting read.

Second Creed of Sirmium (357) - "The Blasphemy"

However:

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 
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@JesusIs4Me
If possible I would need clarification on these four questions and if you feel like any of the questions is putting words in your mouth then please correct me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Is Holy Spirit speaking expressly own Will or Will of The Heavenly Father?
While Jesus was on earth, the Holy Spirit spoke the words of the Father thru His disciples; even Judas Iscariot whom was never a believer. Matthew 10th chapter confirms this;

Now that Jesus has ascended, all power has been given unto the Son ( Matthew 28:18 KJV ) Therefore the words of the Father are now the Son's as the Son is the One speaking thru to us now thru the Holy Spirit as the Bridegroom to the bride ( John 16:13-15 KJV ). Once Jesus puts away sin, death, and hell into the lake of fire with Satan and all those not written in the Book of Life, He hands the kingdom back to the Father.

2. Are you saying that prior to Christ taking on flesh; he was never the Son of God?
No. The God that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and even Moses had seen was the Son of God before His incarnation. The Son was/is our Creator and nothing that was created was done without Him. John 1 st chapter

3. Are you saying that the son was always equal with the Father except for when he was in the Flesh of Men?
Paul said that Jesus was and is equal with God ( Philippians 2:5-8 KJV ), but as far as authority within the One God, the title "father" signifies that highest authority as it is supposed to be with any godly family where the son obeys the will of the father. So can the Son be the Father? No. Then They are separate and yet of the same One God. So the Father & the Son & the Holy Ghost are of the Triune God, but it is the will of the Father within that Triune God that is being done here.
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Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

4. Are you saying that the name of Christ is not only above every name in regards to Creation but also on par and equal to the name of The Father because they are one in the same?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Legions fear him because he is One Lord, One Authority, One Will. They know that his Authority is not divided. They know they cannot go to another God for grievances or protection because

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Jesus is God. The name of God to call upon to be saved is Jesus Christ. We worship Him because He is God.
 
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While Jesus was on earth, the Holy Spirit spoke the words of the Father thru His disciples; even Judas Iscariot whom was never a believer. Matthew 10th chapter confirms this;

Now that Jesus has ascended, all power has been given unto the Son ( Matthew 28:18 KJV ) Therefore the words of the Father are now the Son's as the Son is the One speaking thru to us now thru the Holy Spirit as the Bridegroom to the bride ( John 16:13-15 KJV ). Once Jesus puts away sin, death, and hell into the lake of fire with Satan and all those not written in the Book of Life, He hands the kingdom back to the Father.



No. The God that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and even Moses had seen was the Son of God before His incarnation. The Son was/is our Creator and nothing that was created was done without Him. John 1 st chapter



Paul said that Jesus was and is equal with God ( Philippians 2:5-8 KJV ), but as far as authority within the One God, the title "father" signifies that highest authority as it is supposed to be with any godly family where the son obeys the will of the father. So can the Son be the Father? No. Then They are separate and yet of the same One God. So the Father & the Son & the Holy Ghost are of the Triune God, but it is the will of the Father within that Triune God that is being done here.


Jesus is God. The name of God to call upon to be saved is Jesus Christ. We worship Him because He is God.
@JesusIs4Me
Thank you for the clarification and I believe I know how to address you; But before I do, did you ask me any questions specifically that I have not answered?
Sometimes is hard for me to discern a question when wrapped in an explanations prior to the question.
 
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also I want to mention that I do not disagree with this scripture concerning The Son "in case it comes up"

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 

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