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Heaven after hell?

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Active
You did not answer my question - Are YOU inside OR outside the "Gates of Hell"?

And IT IS NOT a word used for the Lake of Fire -
Rev 20:14 states "And death and hell (hades) SHALL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE".


Back to the drawing board.
Kreisel, the answer is neither.

Note how Jesus went to Hades when He died, then note how He was raised up from Hades by God. Put these two facts together and what should be obvious is the fact that Jesus can come and go as He pleases. He can be in the gates of hell and He can be out of the gates of hell. We will reign with Jesus, so I would expect the same to apply to us.

If you are trying to push a pre-conceived theory touching on Calvinism, just ''say it''. Stop beating around the bush.

If you are trying to make a non-Calvinistic statement and I am just terribly wrong, I will deeply apologise. It is just that I ''sense'' Calvinism teaching en route.
 
Loyal
You defend your beliefs with opiniated statements and not scripture.

You teach that God is at the height of wickedness and do not defend your position. If you were in my church, you would not be allowed to stand at the pulpit and teach, I can promise you that.

Anyone who can't properly represent God of the bible truthfully to the lost as good, loving, kind and righteous in all His ways is in danger of judgement day with a God who died for the lost.

@KingJ -- I have Never taught that God is at the heighth of wickedness -- never, ever. I never intend to stand at any churches pulpit to preach and if you're familiar with Scripture, you'd know the guidelines that God gives For those who Would be standing at a pulpit teaching / preaching. That person is to be a Man -- a Married man with one wife.

WOW -- you are Way out of line.

Satan is the height of wickedness -- the greatest liar of all times.

Satan, the beast and the false prophet are the ones who Will be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity. as per Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived then, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone , where the beast and the false prophet are, And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. and then down to vs 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire, This is the second death vs 15 And everyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Those are real people being talked about. vs 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God....... and the dead were judged according to their works .... and the sea gave up the dead who were in it. And Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works."

Death that Will Be -- is not the same as 'death' as we know it Now.

In this present day -- we have and have had The way that God Has given to everyone The way to be able to Be in Heaven / the New Jerusalem for all eternity. Found in 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 10: 9-10. I've presented these passages Many times in many threads.

The book of Romans tells us that we are all sinners and the penalty is physical death -- and that the Gift of God is eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I've presented That many times. It's God's Word that I've presented.
 
Loyal
@KingJ -- Re: the rich man and Lazarus -- Luke 16 -- vs 22 "and he, the rich man, was in torments in Hades ... vs 24 Then he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame. ...vs 29 Abraham said to him, They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them." The rich man wanted someone to go to his brothers who were still alive and warn them of what their future would end up being If they didn't change their ways.

And 'we' are in that same situation -- but we have All of God's Word now -- and we have preachers and teachers to share Scripture with 'us'. And we have it to read for ourselves. We are warned Now -- they were warned back Then.

When a person takes time to read God's Word ourselves -- we will find out what Hades is like and how to stay Out of there. As well as the Lake of fire / brimstone and how to stay out of There.

It would appear that what You were taught / believe About all of this -- Might be faulty.
 
Active
@KingJ -- I have Never taught that God is at the heighth of wickedness -- never, ever.
Sue, I know you mean well but you have to deal with what I am saying.

I know you love Jesus and want to properly represent Him to the lost. Which is why you must try to not take what I am saying personally. Deal with it and / or counter me.

I am sayin to you that I honestly believe what you teach paints God as the height of wickedness.

I talk to atheists all the time. I can promise you that every one of them will use your posts (specifically on God's omniscience and eternal torture) as support for their cause.

You need to for a second, put yourself in the shoes of one who is lost.

I dont care about the fact that ''you'' are saved and ''you'' don't need to worry about the 'horrors' that await those who reject God.

If I was a guy looking to marry your daughter and said to her ''accept me or I will skin you alive and place you in a brazen bull.....of and by the way, I know you will reject me because I am really smart, so I have got the knife and brazen bull ready'''....what will you as a mother say?

Put yourself in the shoes of the lost you are supposed to be trying to lead to God!!!!!
 
Loyal
@King J -- I seem to remember this same dialogue from the 1st time we had this conversation. Your example of a guy wanting to marry my daughter sounds ridiculous. I don't recall what my response was the 1st time -- but This time -- it sounds ridiculous. Not even close to reasonableness,

A lot of people will use Any excuse they can think of to discredit God. You brought up atheists -- you do realize that the 'a' means Against. Which automatically means that there Is Something to choose to not believe in. Which means that God Does exist. Which Also means that choosing to ignore God does Not make Him disappear or cease to exist.

You've stated that you talk to atheists all the time -- well -- from what you've shared Here, I am troubled by what you'd be sharing with Them. Everyone needs to hear the entire council of God -- not very many people Want to hear about hell / the lake of fire and brimstone that might Be in their future. People would much rather hear Only of God's love, not especially His Holiness, righteous judgement. God wants us to be Holy as He is Holy. God is Merciful to us.

We are to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. Even personally leading a person to their saving knowledge /heart acceptance of Him would be wonderful. But -- It's the Holy Spirit who does the 'saving' -- God knows our Heart and That is what makes the difference.

Be aware of who ends up in hell when they die and why they end up there. And be aware of who the lake of fire and brimstone is intended For. And how everyone Else can stay Out of there. And be aware of the fact that is does last Forever.
No one will burn up and cease to exist.

And there Are people who Are Determined to spend their eternal lives in hell / lake of fire and brimstone. They intend to pay for their own sinfulness. I've shared Scripture with them -- and they are fully determined to take responsibility for their own sins and it's consequences. In fact -- the one young lady felt it was horrible that Jesus Christ died on the cross For her sins. She said she would have Stopped His death.

And , many decades ago -- I had an uncle -- a very nice guy -- owned a neighborhood grocery store. Everyone liked him -- he had a motor boat that he took people out on all the time. A cousin of mine tried every so often to share the Gospel with him. He wasn't interested. Lived his entire life -- up until the very end -- rejecting salvation. Then he got sick and was diagnosed with cancer. He was Finally willing to listen to his nephew about God / Jesus Christ / salvation. He Finally accepted Jesus Christ as His personal Savior. His entire attitude changed and he had a hunger for God's Word -- his regret? that he hadn't listened all those years ago. He was told / shared with / but wasn't interested. He passed away 3 wks later a born again believer.

So -- let's drop the guilt-trip strategy or whatever you'd call it.

Be willing to accept the totality of who God is. A merciful, loving , holy , righteous God. All knowing / all powerful / is present all over -- no one can hide from His presence.
 
Member
This tells me you don't properly read my posts Sue. Hell is bad and it will last forever. We all have different interpretations of how bad a place is though.

To you, a bad place is a torture chamber that the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Ivan the terrible, Saddam Hussein and Himmler would see as appropriate punishment. You want me to add your name to that list? You get upset with me because I won't add God's name? :sweat:

If you had to ask Adam and Eve to compare the current earth to their prior paradise, he would say earth is ''terrible''.

I don't downplay, I quote and interpret scripture properly. The fact that people weep and gnash their teeth because of separation and not fire Luke 13:28 needs to sink in.

Yes and I am correct. In no universe, in no time-zone will one guilty of torture EVER be judged as ''good'' by anyone with more then two working brain cells. Fact.

Go and place your hand on a fire. Do this for five minutes. Then come and apologise to me and all you have miss-taught. You owe a really big apology to God for miss-representing Him to the lost.
I would offer. Jesus does not scare the hell out of a believer. But rather he performs the loving work with the father to bring or draw us to the peace God as his understanding of faith .You could say he loved hell out of us according to his labor of love which is called the work of His faithfulness. .Let there be and it is all good.

Hell is in respect to the letter of the law called death (The Bible) In death the suffering as the wage of sin,(is dying in the end annihilation (according to the Psalms approx. 70 -80 years) a person will come to the end annihilation Their bodies of death returning to the dust from where it was formed .The temporal spirit under the letter returns to that Father of all spirit life.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Those who did receive a new born again heart they have a living hope according to Hebrew 11 of a new incorruptible body not made after the corrupted rudiments of this creation.

The letter of the law (the Bible) as to its rudiments (paper) will go up in smoke never to rise again and condemn through corruption . . dying ending in Annihilation

The death of death and the suffering death created called a living hell .By which both Jesus and Jonas cried out to the unsen Father .Both were given power to finish the good work God began in them as he does with us. .

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (or death as hell) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

death and hell = the death of suffering then comes the end. . never to rise to new spirit life for the non believer.

David declared .If Christ would take into account the wage of any 1 sin who could stand in the place of His grace and mercy? We seek after his forgiveness

Psalm 130:2-4 King James Version (KJV) Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

In that way God is a God of mecry and is subject to his own law. . magnifying it as it is writen abvoe all his names as attributes. . He will not have mercy on one that would cause a siufering of another. Jesus the Son of man took on the suffering as the father poured out his mercy strenthening the Son. By it we can recive grace the reward of thier mutual work of faith .the peace of God as his understanding. The unsen law of liberty. . the law of faith .

James 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

I do not think mercy can work against jusgement and used to reprent judgemnt at the same time. That would seem to be the mother of purgatory doing despite to the grace of God.
 
Member
Also, the Bible NEVER states what you wrote - "One more fact to consider is that when Jesus died. He went to Hades and took all those in Abrahams bosom to heaven. He is the rock, the gates of hell do not prevail against Him".

What I Peter 3:18-19 states is
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

I think we should be careful how we hear and apply the words "Jesus died". The father working with the Son of man Jesus. He kept his earthen body from the end of corruption….. dying ,death (never to rise to new spirit life)


The body was not reincarnated as a Phoenix .He suffered to the point of death. . The pangs of hell . Salvation is the work of two offering a one living sacrifice of one Spirit.. one faith as a work or labor of love .


Acts 13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption


Lazarus used 4 days to complete the demonstration of two walking together strenthened by the unseen hand of the Father. .
 
Active
I would offer. Jesus does not scare the hell out of a believer. But rather he performs the loving work with the father to bring or draw us to the peace God as his understanding of faith .You could say he loved hell out of us according to his labor of love which is called the work of His faithfulness. .Let there be and it is all good.

Hell is in respect to the letter of the law called death (The Bible) In death the suffering as the wage of sin,(is dying in the end annihilation (according to the Psalms approx. 70 -80 years) a person will come to the end annihilation Their bodies of death returning to the dust from where it was formed .The temporal spirit under the letter returns to that Father of all spirit life.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Those who did receive a new born again heart they have a living hope according to Hebrew 11 of a new incorruptible body not made after the corrupted rudiments of this creation.

The letter of the law (the Bible) as to its rudiments (paper) will go up in smoke never to rise again and condemn through corruption . . dying ending in Annihilation

The death of death and the suffering death created called a living hell .By which both Jesus and Jonas cried out to the unsen Father .Both were given power to finish the good work God began in them as he does with us. .

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell (or death as hell) delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

death and hell = the death of suffering then comes the end. . never to rise to new spirit life for the non believer.

David declared .If Christ would take into account the wage of any 1 sin who could stand in the place of His grace and mercy? We seek after his forgiveness

Psalm 130:2-4 King James Version (KJV) Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou, Lord, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.

In that way God is a God of mecry and is subject to his own law. . magnifying it as it is writen abvoe all his names as attributes. . He will not have mercy on one that would cause a siufering of another. Jesus the Son of man took on the suffering as the father poured out his mercy strenthening the Son. By it we can recive grace the reward of thier mutual work of faith .the peace of God as his understanding. The unsen law of liberty. . the law of faith .

James 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV) So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

I do not think mercy can work against jusgement and used to reprent judgemnt at the same time. That would seem to be the mother of purgatory doing despite to the grace of God.
Hi Garee. You explain annihilationism better then most. Thanks for your post.

Would you care to take a stab at my post here. There are just too many scripture based rationale arguments against it.

 
Member
Hi Garee. You explain annihilationism better then most. Thanks for your post.

Would you care to take a stab at my post here. There are just too many scripture based rationale arguments against it.

Thanks I can try...

First we would have to define the phrase “White Throne Judgment” found in that parable (Revelation 20) and its usage as a signified understanding . It’s the last judgment spoken of in the Bible. The 7th trump had sounded.. It applies to the new heavens and earth. The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind ,

The death of death the letter of the law has occurred (the second death), The letter of the law will not rise an condemn throuigh corruption another entire creation . There was no place found for the unbelievers verse 11 .The believers have received their new incorruptible bodies. A picture or parable as the chaste virgin bride of Christ in Revelation 12 .The sun and moon the two temporal time keepers are under her feet it’s the end of time. The previous chapter 19 shows the consummation of the wedding supper in their new incorruptible body, the great supper of the great God;

Chapter 11 after the 7th message it speaks of for ever and ever without end

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdom of this world have already become the fore ever and ever. The first resurrection had come to a close.

It applies to the new heavens and earth where the former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind. The death of death has occurred the second death, the letter of the law.It will not rise and condemn another entire creation through coruption . Dying resulting in death .

There was no place found for the unbelievers (verse 11).The believers have received their new incorruptible bodies. A picture or parable as the chaste virgin bride of Christ in Revelation 12 .The sun and moon the two temporal corruption time keepers under her feet it’s the end of time. The previous chapter 19 shows the consummation of the wedding supper ithe new born again creatures in their new incorruptible body the great supper of the great God;

Revelation 20: 5-6 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

No second ressurection the first removes the sting of death .

Below, Revelation 20:11-15 is written to show the section of the Bible this judgment appears in as the "last judgement " its the end of the world under the Sun .

Below, Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a "great white throne", and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Again death and hell the living suffering according to the law .

That daily burden is made lighter yoked with Christ .

The law and suffering (hell) altogehter was cast into the lake of fire. The spirit of Judgement
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
So what you're really teaching here is universalism.

Everyone is saved whether they believe in Jesus or not.
No one goes to hell/lake of fire whether they believe in Jesus or not.

So basically, you're teaching we don't need Jesus.
 
Active
There was no place found for the unbelievers (verse 11).

Below, Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a "great white throne", and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
You are manipulating that verse. Note the NLT translation.

Rev 20:11 NLT And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide.

Rev 20:11 KJV And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Now the KJV, it is important for you to read the phrase that comes before that line from you. Note how it says ''whose face the earth and heaven fled away''. Then it says ''there was no place found for them. The context is, no wicked can flee this judgement day, not ''there is no home for them''.
 
Member
You are manipulating that verse. Note the NLT translation.

Rev 20:11 NLT And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide.

Rev 20:11 KJV And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Now the KJV, it is important for you to read the phrase that comes before that line from you. Note how it says ''whose face the earth and heaven fled away''. Then it says ''there was no place found for them. The context is, no wicked can flee this judgement day, not ''there is no home for them''.
Hi thanks for the reply. I would offer.

Both translations inform us they was "no place" in the new order. Corrupted flesh and blood having returned to the dust could never enter .No reincarnation. If thats what you meant?

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

The context is. . . no wicked can flee his judgement day, the last judgement , there is no home for them'in the new order The wedding supper had begun in the previous chapter The chaste virgin bride the church has received the promised new body not the eathen body of death. . the veil is lifted . . ..the anticipated kiss

Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

We have the treasure of that power in these earthen bodies of death but would never assume it is of us. We have no power . I would think It is the unseen Lord of lords who can rebuke the unclean spirits . We miraculously can cry out to him, our comforting blessing. .it can strengthen us yoked with Him

The Sun and moon are shown under the feet the feet of the chaste virgin bride the church. . Its the end of time . No temple. no more night.

Revelation 21: 22-25 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be "no night " there.
 
Loyal
@Garee -- you are indeed 'offering' a lot -- but context is key. And you are lifting verses out of their intended context to say something they aren't especially meant to say.

Other than THAT.
 
Loyal
Top Poster Of Month
This may be the most widely different interpreted verse I have ever seen.

(Rev 20:11)
(AMPC) Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it, from Whose presence and from the sight of Whose face earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
(ASV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
(BBE) And I saw a great white seat, and him who was seated on it, before whose face the earth and the heaven went in flight; and there was no place for them.
(CEV) I saw a great white throne with someone sitting on it. Earth and heaven tried to run away, but there was no place for them to go.
(CSB) Then I saw a great white throne and one seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them.
(ESV) Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
(ESV+) Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence R15earth and sky fled away, and R16no place was found for them.
(GNB) Then I saw a great white throne and the one who sits on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence and were seen no more.
(Greek NT TR+) καιG2532 CONJ ειδονG3708 V-2AAI-1S θρονονG2362 N-ASM λευκονG3022 A-ASM μεγανG3173 A-ASM καιG2532 CONJ τονG3588 T-ASM καθημενονG2521 V-PNP-ASM επG1909 PREP αυτουG846 P-GSM ουG3739 R-GSM αποG575 PREP προσωπουG4383 N-GSN εφυγενG5343 V-2AAI-3S ηG3588 T-NSF γηG1093 N-NSF καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM ουρανοςG3772 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ τοποςG5117 N-NSM ουχG3756 PRT-N ευρεθηG2147 V-API-3S αυτοιςG846 P-DPM
(GW) I saw a large, white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence, but no place was found for them.
(HCSB) Then I saw a great white throne and One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.
(ISV) Then I saw a large, white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and no place was found for them.
(KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
(KJVA) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
(MKJV) And I saw a great white throne, and Him sitting on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And a place was not found for them.
(MSG) I saw a Great White Throne and the One Enthroned. Nothing could stand before or against the Presence, nothing in Heaven, nothing on earth.
(NAS77) And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
(NASB) Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
(NIrV) I saw a great white throne and the One who was sitting on it. When the earth and sky saw his face, they ran away. There was no place for them.
(NIV) Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
(NKJV) Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
(NLT) And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide.
(RV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
(TPT) Then I saw a great, dazzling-white throne and the One who sits on it. Heaven and earth fled from his presence and they were no more.

ou
oo
Also οὐκ ouk ook used before a vowel and οὐχ ouch ookh before an aspirate.
A primary word; the absolutely negative (compare G3361) adverb; no or not: - + long, nay, neither, never, no (X man), none, [can-] not, + nothing, + special, un ([-worthy]), when, + without, + yet but. See also G3364, G3372.

τόπος
topos
top'-os
Apparently a primary word; a spot (generally in space, but limited by occupancy; whereas G5561 is a larger but particular locality), that is, location (as a position, home, tract, etc.); figuratively condition, opportunity; specifically a scabbard: - coast, licence, place, X plain, quarter, + rock, room, where.
Total KJV occurrences: 92

I would say the GNB and TPT are incorrect here. I would say the CEV and NLT are the more accurate here. If you look at the Greek, it's literally "no place", it doesn't say "no more".
 
Active
Hi thanks for the reply. I would offer.

Both translations inform us they was "no place" in the new order. Corrupted flesh and blood having returned to the dust could never enter .No reincarnation. If thats what you meant?
You arrive at pre-conceived conclusions. Try and remove your annihilationist mindset and just read the verse. Allow your English language lessons from school to kick in.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them

It starts off with '''Great white throne judgement''. Note that. It is key to making sense of what comes after. We know from other scripture that this judgement is a judgement of the wicked only. Those in Christ escape it and have the Bema seat judgement.

Now the second part says '''Earth and heaven fled away''. Meaning the wicked on earth and the wicked from heaven, have / will try escape the ''White Throne Judgement''.

Then the sentence closes with the statement ''there was no place found for them''. This is with regards to the White throne judgement and their attempts to find another place / a way to escape it. They found no so such place.

It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with their eternal home or annihilation. You are 100% guilty of manipulating that scripture to tie in with your belief.

Here is a verse you need to meditate on: Rev 22:19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll .
 
Active
@Garee @complete

Question on annihilationism.

If God annihilates all the wicked in the lake of fire, why would He keep it burning for all eternity?

There are only two possible reasons that come to mind:

1. Your salvation is not secure.
2. The wicked live on, they are not annihilated.
 
Active
@Garee @complete

Question on annihilationism.

If God annihilates all the wicked in the lake of fire, why would He keep it burning for all eternity?

There are only two possible reasons that come to mind:

1. Your salvation is not secure.
2. The wicked live on, they are not annihilated.
'And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'

(Revelation 20:10)

'And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.'

(Revelation 20:14)

'And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.'

(Revelation 20:15)

Hello @KingJ,

Thank you for including me.

Revelation 20:10 - tells us that the Beast and the False Prophet will be tormented day and night for ever (age) and ever (age) in the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 - tells us that Death and Hell (the grave) were cast into the lake of fire, and that this was the second death.
Revelation 20:15 - tells us that the dead who had been judged according to their works, if their names were not written in the book of life, were cast into the lake of fire, this being the second death.

* So the only beings whom we are told will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and ever are the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Devil.
* That is all that we are told, to my knowledge, concerning the lake of fire: and I try not to go beyond what is actually written.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Active
'And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.'

(Revelation 20:10)

'And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.'

(Revelation 20:14)

'And whosoever was not found written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of fire.'

(Revelation 20:15)

Hello @KingJ,

Thank you for including me.

Revelation 20:10 tells us that the Beast and the False Prophet will be tormented day and night for ever (age) and ever (age) in the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14 tells us that Death and Hell (the grave) were cast into the lake of fire, and that this was the second death.
Revelation 20:15 tells us that the dead who had been judged according to their works, and if their names were not written in the book of life, they were made subject to the second death, by being cast into the lake of fire.

* So the only beings whom we are told will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and ever are the Beast, the False Prophet, and the Devil.

* That is all that we are told, to my knowledge, concerning the lake of fire.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Thanks for clarifying but does that make sense to you? Does it not seem unfair?
 
Active
Thanks for clarifying but does that make sense to you? Does it not seem unfair?
Hello @KingJ,

It does make sense to me, yes. Though I cannot begin to explain my reason for saying so, for the whole act of creation and what followed would have to be taken into consideration. It does not seem unfair to me, no, because I know that God is Just, and that He will have dealt with each individual justly, so that whosoever receives that judgment has received it justifiably, on the basis of their works, by God, who knows the secrets of men's hearts.

What would be worse, to me, would be if mankind who were so judged, were made to suffer eternal conscious punishment, with no hope of reprieve. Oblivion is the kinder outcome.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

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