Have you been Baptized?

[BroTan]

"I" go back ... for "me" to say ???

Jeremiah himself said it quite plainly, that what people thought to be the law as given by Moses (that which was written) was corrupted by the scribes back then.

If one could trust the "law" as attributed to Moses, why did Jesus even need to preach?

Jesus came precisely because of Jeremiah.

Rhema
Jesus didn't preach Judaism, sir.




Make up your mind.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

 

[Born Again 2004]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

Sure , trying to obey is one thing.....obeying is another....it takes perfection....thanks be to God for Jesus!

 

[Rhema]

True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

True saints realize that the God's law is now written by the Holy Spirit upon one's heart, and that it cannot be found written in ink on paper or upon tablets of stone.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.​

(2 Corinthians 3:3 KJV)​

Rhema

 

[BroTan]

True saints realize that the God's law is now written by the Holy Spirit upon one's heart, and that it cannot be found written in ink on paper or upon tablets of stone.

Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.​

(2 Corinthians 3:3 KJV)​

Rhema

That's right because again Paul says in Hebrews 8: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And write them in their hearts: And I will be to them a God,
And they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:
For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest.

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14) Many contend that Jesus did it all and now all we have to do is have faith.

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

 

[Rhema]

That's right because again Paul says in Hebrews 8: 10

Someone did you a disservice by teaching you that Paul wrote Hebrews. He did not. Technically no one knows who the author may be, but it's not Paul's style. Paul doesn't write that way. Never did. My money is on Apollos as the author.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And write them in their hearts: And I will be to them a God,
And they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord:
For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest.

In addition, this is a quote from Jeremiah:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

(Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV)​

DON'T FOOL YOURSELF!

Of all the people here on this forum, I am the least that you would need to worry about this.

Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift.

Ahem.... it isn't "free" if one needs to work for good grades to receive this "reward". The bicycle was earned by the works necessary to achieve the good grades. That's just common sense. Nothing is free if there are strings attached (conditions to be met). Obviously then, there is a confrontation with the teaching in this passage:

But, not as the offence so also is the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many; and not as through one who did sin is the free gift, for the judgment indeed is of one to condemnation, but the gift is of many offences to a declaration of 'Righteous,' for if by the offence of the one the death did reign through the one, much more those, who the abundance of the grace and of the free gift of the righteousness are receiving, in life shall reign through the one—Jesus Christ. So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of 'Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound,​

(Romans 5:15-20 YLT)​

And anyone who is not fooling himself would readily admit that Paul and James had a major theological disagreement - unto war even.

Rhema

 

[Shaolin]

@Shaolin - Since your PhD is on Ancient Near East Covenants, was there ever a time when the act of Baptism comprised a part of any process for establishing a covenant? This has me very curious, and I'm hoping you can provide more than brief comment. Would you agree with BroTan that being Baptized establishes a covenant?

No where in Scripture that I am aware of, does the act of baptism "establish" a covenant. Previous to the enactment of the New Covenant (NC), a ceremonial washing (that is for all intents and purposes a baptism) in a mikveh initiated a priest into the active priesthood to the Aaronic order. Even in the NC baptism does not "establish" a covenant, it is God's ordained ceremonial rite of entrance into the NC of God in Christ...but it does not "establish" a covenant. It only takes the person baptized into that covenant relationship.

In effect, baptism establishes a covenant relationship, but God established the NC in Christ at the Last Supper with Communion (before we started calling it the communion).

Hope that answers the question!

Blessing.

 

[Shaolin]

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV) How can you say, “We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us,” when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?

This verse does not pertain to all Scripture. Read the context, it continues from chapter 7, where the scribes and priests were just as corrupt as the people were. It pertains to the false teachings and prophecies that the then current priests and scribes were telling the people...

Jeremiah 7:4
Do not trust in these deceptive words: 'This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD.'

Jeremiah 7:8
"Behold, you trust in deceptive words to no avail.

Etc...I could go on, but this should suffice.

I am in no way agreeing with everything that brotan says, because much of what he states is pure hogwash and he is not a truth seeker, only a bias defender...and you know how I feel about bias defenders...

 

[Shaolin]

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). True saints realize that God's law must be obeyed to receive eternal life.

And..."true saints" understand that we are not under the Mosaic law today, that when Mat. 19:16-19 and Rev. 14:12 speak of commandments, that what the inspired authors are referring to are the new commandments of the New Covenant, not the dead commandments of the Mosaic covenant. No one walking with God today is under the 10 commandments...if they are, then they are deceived and not walking with God, just as Paul (and Jesus) clearly teaches in many places. Today, we are only under 2 commandments, and all other stipulations fall under those two.

 

[Shaolin]

Sure , trying to obey is one thing.....obeying is another....it takes perfection....thanks be to God for Jesus!

This is another false teaching found within the church today, from calvinism. No where in Scripture do we find that God holds us to be "perfect." No where. Why? Because He created us, He KNOWS that it is impossible for a man to be perfect, and God is not a monster...He does not demand from us what is impossible for us to give.

From the beginning, what God requires is that we do our best. Most children's songs contain beautiful Biblical truths..."Just do your best, and God takes care of the rest..." Can't remember the rest of the lyrics...

 

[Born Again 2004]

This is another false teaching found within the church today, from calvinism. No where in Scripture do we find that God holds us to be "perfect." No where. Why? Because He created us, He KNOWS that it is impossible for a man to be perfect, and God is not a monster...He does not demand from us what is impossible for us to give.

From the beginning, what God requires is that we do our best. Most children's songs contain beautiful Biblical truths..."Just do your best, and God takes care of the rest..." Can't remember the rest of the lyrics...

Again, it is Jesus's Perfection imparted to us, thanks be to God!!

 

[Shaolin]

Again, it is Jesus's Perfection imparted to us, thanks be to God!!

First, no where in Scripture do we find that "Jesus's perfection" is imparted to us...no where. I will now ask that you provide the passage that you *think* says such nonsense.

The righteousness and holiness of Christ is imparted to those who walk in obedience to God, for as long as they do so. But...nope...no "perfection" anywhere...

Please provide your assumed evidence.

 

[BroTan]

And..."true saints" understand that we are not under the Mosaic law today, that when Mat. 19:16-19 and Rev. 14:12 speak of commandments, that what the inspired authors are referring to are the new commandments of the New Covenant, not the dead commandments of the Mosaic covenant. No one walking with God today is under the 10 commandments...if they are, then they are deceived and not walking with God, just as Paul (and Jesus) clearly teaches in many places. Today, we are only under 2 commandments, and all other stipulations fall under those two.

And what two Commandments is that?

 

[Shaolin]

And what two Commandments is that?

Those which make up the Law of Christ, which John details here:

1 John 3:23-24*
And this is His commandments of the New Covenant, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and that we love one another, according as He has given us commandment to do; those who continually obey His commandments remain abiding in Him, and He will remain abiding in him; by this we know that He remains abiding in us, by reason of the Spirit of which He has given to us.

In Romans 13:8-10, Paul gives detail on one of them..."love one another."

Blessings

 

[BroTan]

Someone did you a disservice by teaching you that Paul wrote Hebrews. He did not. Technically no one knows who the author may be, but it's not Paul's style. Paul doesn't write that way. Never did. My money is on Apollos as the author.


In addition, this is a quote from Jeremiah:

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

(Jeremiah 31:31-34 KJV)​

Of all the people here on this forum, I am the least that you would need to worry about this.


Ahem.... it isn't "free" if one needs to work for good grades to receive this "reward". The bicycle was earned by the works necessary to achieve the good grades. That's just common sense. Nothing is free if there are strings attached (conditions to be met). Obviously then, there is a confrontation with the teaching in this passage:

But, not as the offence so also is the free gift; for if by the offence of the one the many did die, much more did the grace of God, and the free gift in grace of the one man Jesus Christ, abound to the many; and not as through one who did sin is the free gift, for the judgment indeed is of one to condemnation, but the gift is of many offences to a declaration of 'Righteous,' for if by the offence of the one the death did reign through the one, much more those, who the abundance of the grace and of the free gift of the righteousness are receiving, in life shall reign through the one—Jesus Christ. So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of 'Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous. And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound,​

(Romans 5:15-20 YLT)​

And anyone who is not fooling himself would readily admit that Paul and James had a major theological disagreement - unto war even.

Rhema

Only if you really understood what Paul is saying in Romans 5th chapter. Adam offence cause the first death and the second death which is the lake of fire. The whole creation was headed to the lake of fire. If Jesus didn't come and die or become a sin offering for mankind, all of mankind would have been put in the lake of fire, including, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, etc. Paul says in Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. This is talking about the first and second death. I notice on this forum, most people don't talk about the second death, and that's the most important death to worry about.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. See, Adam brought both death. This is why the atonement was practice in Leviticus 16 and so important. They had to live in hopes of what we living in now, because Christ already came and died in our day. But in their time, they sins was always on them including the second death. That's why Paul says in Hebrew 10: For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Because animal can't take away sins. The Lord had Moses to use two scapegoats because they were practicing on what Jesus had to actually go through to remove the sins off of mankind for righteous.

Now, Paul says in Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Let's take a look in Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? This is hard for most people to understand this, because people are not taught about the second death, and when they see the word death in the Bible, they looking at it as the first death most of the time. But let's get a verse out the Bible thats clean cut in Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Meaning that all the Prophets and righteous people back then, would have been in the second death.

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8) Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts1:36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check.

So I thank God the more and more, because three times Jesus prayed to the Father in Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. So that vision in Matthew 17, is because of what Jesus was going and now did.

 

[Shaolin]

Only if you really understood what Paul is saying in Romans 5th chapter. Adam offence cause the first death and the second death which is the lake of fire.

Nope, you blew it right there. Adam did not cause the lake of fire...I thought you knew Scripture?

Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

God made the lake of fire, and NOT for human beings...but those who follow after satan will spend eternity with him...

The whole creation was headed to the lake of fire.

Nope...only satan and the demons were. Please provide a passage that tells us that the whole creation was heading for the lake of fire. you cannot...because there isn't one.

If Jesus didn't come and die or become a sin offering for mankind, all of mankind would have been put in the lake of fire, including, David, Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, etc.

That is besides the point. God knew what would happen before He ever created anything, and He made His plan of the ages and the plan of redemption and was already prepared before He created. Your "point" is moot.

Paul says in Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. This is talking about the first and second death. I notice on this forum, most people don't talk about the second death, and that's the most important death to worry about.

Yes, but since you conveniently left out the part that destroys your hypothesis, here it is in its wholeness:

Romans 5:12-14
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

Death spread to all mankind NOT because of Adam, but because every person ever born has sinned at least once in their lives. Care to try again?

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Actually, let's stop right there and get what the Greek actually says in this verse:

I Cor. 15:22*
Because just as in Adam all are dead, in the same way also, those who are in Christ will be made alive.

Two points here from the Greek: apothnesko ("are dead") is in the present tense, active voice. Present tense meaning that they are dead right now; the active voice means that they killed themselves - Adam had nothing to do with their death. And, BTW, in context here, Paul is addressing spiritual death, not physical death.

See, Adam brought both death.

No. Adam brought spiritual death because God told him that the day he disobeyed Him, he would die. We know that God speaks of spiritual death and not physical death, because then later He says...

Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever--"

Man was not created to be immortal, only our spirits are immortal. Continuing...

This is why the atonement was practice in Leviticus 16 and so important. They had to live in hopes of what we living in now, because Christ already came and died in our day. But in their time, they sins was always on them including the second death. That's why Paul says in Hebrew 10: For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Because animal can't take away sins. The Lord had Moses to use two scapegoats because they were practicing on what Jesus had to actually go through to remove the sins off of mankind for righteous.

Yes, that is what I said earlier...God knew what would happen and He had already made the plan to deal with it. You still have not come to a valid point yet...

OOPS!!! I wills stop here...I just realized that you were addressing Rhema, not me. Sorry!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Have you been Baptized?

Yup. I was Born again by FAITH (gifted by God (Eph 2:8,9) and infilled with the Holy Spirit on a Wednesday night in my apartment. And then I was Baptized by immersion in water at Greenwood Baptist church in Pasadena, TX the following Sunday Evening.

 

[Born Again 2004]

First, no where in Scripture do we find that "Jesus's perfection" is imparted to us...no where. I will now ask that you provide the passage that you *think* says such nonsense.

The righteousness and holiness of Christ is imparted to those who walk in obedience to God, for as long as they do so. But...nope...no "perfection" anywhere...

Please provide your assumed evidence.

First, no where in Scripture do we find that "Jesus's perfection" is imparted to us...no where. I will now ask that you provide the passage that you *think* says such nonsense.

The righteousness and holiness of Christ is imparted to those who walk in obedience to God, for as long as they do so. But...nope...no "perfection" anywhere...

Please provide your assumed evidence.

You only belittle yourself in your lack of understanding God and Jesus; much less the Bible!!

Having God (Jesus) in you is the essence of the Gospel!

All true Christians are marked by having Jesus (Holy Spirit) in them.

Hog-wash , right?!
Knowing something is not predicated on a
" percise" scripture, rather than understanding the entire Gospel, comprised of many scriptures through-out the Bible that support a truth.

When God looks into a Chritian's heart (Soul) He wants to see Jesus's Holiness, Righteousness and ,yes, Perfection...anything that YOU think you may have to offer is as "Filthy Rags" to Him.
2 Cor 13-5
Matthew 5:48

It appears to me, YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN!

 

[Born Again 2004]

You only belittle yourself in your lack of understanding God and Jesus; much less the Bible!!

Having God (Jesus) in you is the essence of the Gospel!

All true Christians are marked by having Jesus (Holy Spirit) in them.

Hog-wash , right?!
Knowing something is not predicated on a
" percise" scripture, rather than understanding the entire Gospel, comprised of many scriptures through-out the Bible that support a truth.

When God looks into a Chritian's heart (Soul) He wants to see Jesus's Holiness, Righteousness and ,yes, Perfection...anything that YOU think you may have to offer is as "Filthy Rags" to Him.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Matthew 5:48

It appears to me, YOU ARE NOT CHRISTIAN!

 

[Rhema]

This verse does not pertain to all Scripture. Read the context,

With all due respect, I have read the context... and just what are scribes if they are not the ones copying scripture?

If scribes copy scripture, then indeed how could this verse not pertain to scripture? I note you say "all" Scripture, but Jeremiah certainly spoke of the law... so ...

It pertains to the false teachings and prophecies that the then current priests and scribes were telling the people...

"Telling" ??

Again, scribes write. They produced the scrolls known as scripture.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

the dead commandments

Indeed... Luv it.