Have you been Baptized?

[Born Again 2004]

To understand the water that Jesus was taking about to Nicodemus is referring to the word of God, but the water baptism is coming under the blood of Jesus. Overall both is needed. In the book of Revelation 22: 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

When Jesus spoke the words to Nicodemus that one must be born of water and Spirit , why did He immediately follow up with: "Flesh gives birth to flesh and the Spirit gives birth to the Spirit"?.....
...two births one of Flesh and one of Spirit!

 

[BroTan]

When Jesus spoke the words to Nicodemus that one must be born of water and Spirit , why did He immediately follow up with: "Flesh gives birth to flesh and the Spirit gives birth to the Spirit"?.....
...two births one of Flesh and one of Spirit!

When Jesus says in John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Notice: He made a difference between flesh and spirit. Ask yourself that question, was you born flesh or spirit?

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Notice: He compared the wind to a spirit. Can you see the wind? No! We have seen things being blown around by the wind, but we have never seen the wind. If you are born of the spirit you are like the wind. This is when you are truly born again, when you are born of the spirit.

Notice: what Jesus does in these next few verses. Remember, this is after His resurrection.

John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

 

[Rhema]

No, I am not saying that at all. The Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit is one and the same that's all.

Then one would say that they are synonyms.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Jesus says in Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. I haven't read in the Bible infants being baptize, from Genesis to Revelation. Being baptize is a covenant (agreement) so how can an infant make a covenant with God, or with anybody for that matter.

So then you are saying that children are NOT part of a household.

Thanks for the clarification.

Rhema

 

[complete]

'I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord,
beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
There is:-
.. one body, and
.... one Spirit, even as ye are called in
...... one hope of your calling;
........ One Lord,
.......... one faith,
............ one baptism,
.............. One God and Father of all,
Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.'
(Eph 4:1-7)

Hello there,

In the sevenfold unity of the Spirit listed above, that we are exhorted to KEEP, there is only one baptism: which is baptism into Christ's death, by the operation of the spirit; in which the flesh plays no part.

 

[Rhema]

In the sevenfold unity of the Spirit listed above, that we are exhorted to KEEP, there is only one baptism:

So then John is speaking of both things at the same time to you?

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire:​

(Matthew 3:11 KJV)​

Thanks,
Rhema

sevenfold unity of the Spirit

Now you're just making stuff up.

 

[complete]

So then John is speaking of both things at the same time to you?

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire:​

(Matthew 3:11 KJV)​

Thanks,
Rhema


Now you're just making stuff up.

Hello @Rhema,

In reply#25 I quoted from Ephesians chapter four, and listed the seven truths which comprise 'The Unity of the Spirit' that Paul exhorts his readers to 'keep'. We are told that we are all given grace 'according to the measure of Christ', in order to do so. So the unity of the Spirit is seven-fold:-

'Endeavouring to keep
the unity of the Spirit
in the bond of peace.
There is:-
(1) - one body, and
(2) - one Spirit, even as ye are called in
(3) - one hope of your calling;
(4) - One Lord,
(5) - one faith,
(6) - one baptism,
(7) - One God and Father of all,
.. Who is
.... above all, and
...... through all, and
........ in you all.
But unto every one of us
is given grace
according to the measure
of the gift of Christ.'

* So, here we have just one baptism stipulated: and not two, as we read to have taken place during the period of approximately forty years covered by the book, 'The Acts of The Apostles'; and foretold by John the Baptist in (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:4; Marl 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:26; John 1:33).

* Peter, speaking to his own kinsmen referred to both baptism in water to be followed by baptism of the Holy Ghost - in Acts 2:38. In Acts 4:31 the baptism of the Holy Ghost is seen to be an act of empowerment. In Acts 8:15-17 those who had been baptised in the name of Jesus, received the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. In Acts 19:1-7 also, there were disciples who had received the baptism of John, who were then baptised in the name of the Lord Jesus, and the Holy Ghost came upon them.

* But now, here in Ephesians 4, at the end of the Acts period, following the revelation of God given to Paul, believers are told that there is only one baptism which is part of the unity of the Spirit, and that baptism unites the believer with His Lord in His death and resurrection, it is the operation of the Spirit and takes place within the believer, the moment he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ. He is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

* The members of the Church which is His Body observe neither days, fasts, feasts, nor ordinances. These are shadows; the body is of Christ (Colossians 2). The one baptism unites us to the risen Christ, and we have no command to set forth this union in symbol or type; neither have we any warrant to look for 'signs' in connection with our baptism by the Spirit.

* Was the baptism of Matthew 2-:21-22 in water? Was the baptism of 1 Corinthians 10:2 in water? (see Exod. 14:22 'upon dry ground', also Psa. 66:6 and Heb. 11:29).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rhema]

* So, here we have just one baptism stipulated: and not two, as we read to have taken place during the period of approximately forty years covered by the book, 'The Acts of The Apostles';

ONE: Fire

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

(Acts 2:3-4 KJV)​

TWO: Water

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.​

(Acts 10:47-48 KJV)​

I think I'll pass on the rest until your confident confusion is resolved.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[complete]

ONE: Fire

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

(Acts 2:3-4 KJV)​

TWO: Water

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.​

(Acts 10:47-48 KJV)​

I think I'll pass on the rest until your confident confusion is resolved.

Thanks,
Rhema

Hello @Rhema,

Your diagnosis of 'confident confusion' seems a little contradictory, Doc. I request a second opinion.

Seriously: the first of your references which included cloven tongues 'like as of fire' appears to have been experienced only on that first day. Being promised by the Lord prior to His ascension in Acts 1:4-8 (Acts 2:33). This baptism empowered and equip them to become the Lord's witnesses not only in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, but to 'the uttermost parts of the earth.'Hence the necessity of speaking in tongues (Acts 2:4).

The second baptism you have referred to, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,: is a baptism in water for the remission of sins, like that of John the Baptist. In Acts 10:44-48, it was believing gentiles who were commanded to be baptised. When they heard the word of God and believed what they heard, the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon them, for God was confirming that He was no respecter of persons, and that these believing Gentiles had been accepted by Him, it was then that Peter commanded that they be baptised in water in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins.

Yes, two baptisms were in evidence during the Acts period, but at the end of that period, following the revelation of God, given to Paul concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, only one baptism is listed as part of the unity of the Spirit (Ephesians 4). I believe that to be the believers identification with Christ in His death and resurrection, which is the operation of the Holy Spirit, in which no water is required, which takes place the moment he believes. He is sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise, until the redemption of the purchased possession, at the resurrection from the dead.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rhema]

Seriously: the first of your references which included cloven tongues 'like as of fire' appears to have been experienced only on that first day.

This is an argument from silence. When I was baptized in tongues, I personally experienced it "like as of fire".

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Yes, two baptisms were in evidence during the Acts period, but at the end of that period, following the revelation of God, given to Paul concerning the church which is the Body of Christ, only one baptism is listed as part of the unity of the Spirit (Ephesians 4).

So Paul altered the teachings and practices of the early church. Yes, I can agree with that.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[BroTan]

Then one would say that they are synonyms.

Thanks,
Rhema

Yes!

 

[BroTan]

So then you are saying that children are NOT part of a household.

Thanks for the clarification.

Rhema

How do you know children was apart of that household, and still I need you to show an example of children getting baptize.

 

[Rhema]

How do you know children was apart of that household, and still I need you to show an example of children getting baptize.

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.​

(Matthew 19:13-15 KJV)​

(BroTan's addendum) except for baptism... that's VERBOTEN !!! Baptism of children is forbidden !!! We don't allow that.

Rhema

And something else to fry your preconceptions:

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.​

(1 Corinthians 7:14 KJV)​

 

[BroTan]

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.​

(Matthew 19:13-15 KJV)​

(BroTan's addendum) except for baptism... that's VERBOTEN !!! Baptism of children is forbidden !!! We don't allow that.

Rhema

And something else to fry your preconceptions:

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.​

(1 Corinthians 7:14 KJV)​

We talking baptism not little Children coming in the word of God to learn. Those verses didn't say anything about baptism. You have to understand that coming under the blood Jesus is big time covenant between God and that individual. A little child or infant can't hold that type of agreement for salvation. Little Children don't have license to drive before a certain age nor can buy liquor etc, but you expect that type of responsibilities on a infant or child, when it comes to the word of God that wouldn't be right. In the scriptures it's written Proverb 22: 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it. So you train a child in the word of God and when that child is of age and ready, then he or she will get baptize in the name of Jesus.

 

[Rhema]

You have to understand that coming under the blood Jesus is big time covenant between God and that individual.

First, I must say... you have an interesting dialect. It would seem, then, that allowances must be made for misunderstandings due to linguistic differences. That said, I note that you've spoken of Baptism as a "Covenant" on more than one occasion. To our benefit, we have a member here who holds a PhD on Ancient Near East Covenants, and I'd like to bring him in for comment.

@Shaolin - Since your PhD is on Ancient Near East Covenants, was there ever a time when the act of Baptism comprised a part of any process for establishing a covenant? This has me very curious, and I'm hoping you can provide more than brief comment. Would you agree with BroTan that being Baptized establishes a covenant?

@BroTan - While we wait for Dr. Shaolin to reply, I can state without a doubt that the Roman Catholic Church does not consider Baptism to be a Covenant, but a Sacrament - one of the Seven Sacraments that the Church is to meet out to the people (LINK).

We talking baptism not little Children coming in the word of God to learn.

And just what could be more important to learn but repentance and the Baptism of Repentance for the remission of sin as taught and practiced by both John tB and Jesus? But yes, I can concur that the principle interaction between Jesus and these children was for the "laying on of hands." It wasn't that Jesus gave them a Sunday school lesson. Let's read again:

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.​

(Matthew 19:13-15 KJV)​

The purpose for these children being brought to Jesus was, of course, "that he should put his hands on them and pray." Since the text does not actually say that Jesus did pray for them, are we to conclude that He did not? And since there is no specific text that says a child was baptized, are we to conclude that none were and that it was wrong to do so? Where is there any scripture that forbids children to be baptized?

People came unto John tB and Jesus to learn of and receive the Remission of sin by participation in Baptism as a sign of Repentance. Do you truly think that little children are unable to repent or know when they need to be forgiven? It's a rather serious question, because if little children CAN understand when they sin, and need forgiveness, the why would you rebuke them and forbid them to participate in the Baptism of Repentance?

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.​

(Mark 1:4 KJV)​

​

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,​

(Luke 1:77 KJV)​

​

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;​

(Luke 3:3 KJV)​

Please note, this was not the shedding of blood for the remission of sins, as taught by the Temple, but the Baptism of Repentance for the remission of sins as taught by John tB and Jesus.

but you expect that type of responsibilities on a infant or child

I always expect a child to tell the truth. However, it's obvious that your views on salvation are core protestant in nature. Are you able to tell me what a Catholic believes about how to be saved? Or a Jew?

Thanks,
Rhema

PS: Where I'm from, there's no age limit on operating any type of motorized vehicle on private land. Nor do we consider liquor to be a "rite of age," so both points are rather irrelevant to the Kingdom.

 

[BroTan]

First, I must say... you have an interesting dialect. It would seem, then, that allowances must be made for misunderstandings due to linguistic differences. That said, I note that you've spoken of Baptism as a "Covenant" on more than one occasion. To our benefit, we have a member here who holds a PhD on Ancient Near East Covenants, and I'd like to bring him in for comment.

@Shaolin - Since your PhD is on Ancient Near East Covenants, was there ever a time when the act of Baptism comprised a part of any process for establishing a covenant? This has me very curious, and I'm hoping you can provide more than brief comment. Would you agree with BroTan that being Baptized establishes a covenant?

@BroTan - While we wait for Dr. Shaolin to reply, I can state without a doubt that the Roman Catholic Church does not consider Baptism to be a Covenant, but a Sacrament - one of the Seven Sacraments that the Church is to meet out to the people (LINK).


And just what could be more important to learn but repentance and the Baptism of Repentance for the remission of sin as taught and practiced by both John tB and Jesus? But yes, I can concur that the principle interaction between Jesus and these children was for the "laying on of hands." It wasn't that Jesus gave them a Sunday school lesson. Let's read again:

Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them. But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.​

(Matthew 19:13-15 KJV)​

The purpose for these children being brought to Jesus was, of course, "that he should put his hands on them and pray." Since the text does not actually say that Jesus did pray for them, are we to conclude that He did not? And since there is no specific text that says a child was baptized, are we to conclude that none were and that it was wrong to do so? Where is there any scripture that forbids children to be baptized?

People came unto John tB and Jesus to learn of and receive the Remission of sin by participation in Baptism as a sign of Repentance. Do you truly think that little children are unable to repent or know when they need to be forgiven? It's a rather serious question, because if little children CAN understand when they sin, and need forgiveness, the why would you rebuke them and forbid them to participate in the Baptism of Repentance?

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.​

(Mark 1:4 KJV)​

​

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,​

(Luke 1:77 KJV)​

​

And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;​

(Luke 3:3 KJV)​

Please note, this was not the shedding of blood for the remission of sins, as taught by the Temple, but the Baptism of Repentance for the remission of sins as taught by John tB and Jesus.


I always expect a child to tell the truth. However, it's obvious that your views on salvation are core protestant in nature. Are you able to tell me what a Catholic believes about how to be saved? Or a Jew?

Thanks,
Rhema

PS: Where I'm from, there's no age limit on operating any type of motorized vehicle on private land. Nor do we consider liquor to be a "rite of age," so both points are rather irrelevant to the Kingdom.

I can speak a little on Jew or what the Bible teaches concerning being save. Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14).

 

[Rhema]

You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV) How can you say, “We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us,” when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?

 

[BroTan]

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV) How can you say, “We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us,” when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?

So you go back into a place in Jeremiah when Israel was not obeying God to say that the pen of the scribes has made in vain. Well let's stay in Jeremiah and go to 31: 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

We in these days now.

Let's go to Hebrews 8: 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
When I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; Because they continued not in my covenant,
And I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, And write them in their hearts: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, And every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: For all shall know me, From the least to the greatest.

 

[Rhema]

So you go back into a place in Jeremiah when Israel was not obeying God to say that the pen of the scribes has made in vain.

"I" go back ... for "me" to say ???

Jeremiah himself said it quite plainly, that what people thought to be the law as given by Moses (that which was written) was corrupted by the scribes back then.

If one could trust the "law" as attributed to Moses, why did Jesus even need to preach?

Jesus came precisely because of Jeremiah.

Rhema
Jesus didn't preach Judaism, sir.

I will put my laws into their mind, And write them in their hearts:

These laws are found in the Holy Bible;

Make up your mind.