God loves everybody?

[esther]

Ascribe to the Lord

Ascribe to the Lord o mighty ones ascribe to the Lord glory and strength, Ascribe to the lord the glory due his name worship the Lord in the splenders of his holiness. psalm29verse1and2

 

[esther]

How to pray

Our father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven, Give us today our daily bread, Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation. but deliver us from the evil one. mathew 6verse 9to13

 

[esther]

The prayer of faith

Is any one of you in trouble ?He should pray. Is any one happy ?Let him sing songs of praise Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the chuch to pray
over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. if he has sinned he will be forgiven. james5verse13to15

 

[jiggyfly]

A lot of people don't seem to realize that 2 Peter, along with the rest of the new testament, is a letter to the church. that is the special group. the church is who he is talking to when he says long suffering toward us-ward. and one more thing, the lord did not promise anything to those who are against him

Ahhh, so then it is very possible to be the elect and then become the non-elect seeing how all of the new testament is directed towards the "church".

Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Sorry but you can't have it both ways Cman.

 

[cman77]

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

This is the only verse in the entire bible that makes a statement such as this. you have to think about it. either the bible is contradicting itself or this verse has a different meaning than you think. when the rest of scripture points to the fact that God does not lose his people, how can you think it is within our power to wriggle ourselves free from his hand. didn't Jesus say i have not lost one that you have given me? i have another thought too. ( i am not sure this fits into the subject ) if our names were written into the book of life in eternity past, that is those who are to receive salvation by the blood of Christ, how are we, mere men, able to alter that text? If someone comes to true and saving faith, that means that there name is written in the book of life. the book of life doesn't change. if someones name is in it they will be saved. that is another reason i do not believe in true believers falling away. one who is truly saved has his name in that book, and if they were able to fall away that would imply that they were able to take there name out of that book. i tell you that we have no such power.

 

[jiggyfly]

This is the only verse in the entire bible that makes a statement such as this. you have to think about it. either the bible is contradicting itself or this verse has a different meaning than you think. when the rest of scripture points to the fact that God does not lose his people, how can you think it is within our power to wriggle ourselves free from his hand. didn't Jesus say i have not lost one that you have given me? i have another thought too. ( i am not sure this fits into the subject ) if our names were written into the book of life in eternity past, that is those who are to receive salvation by the blood of Christ, how are we, mere men, able to alter that text? If someone comes to true and saving faith, that means that there name is written in the book of life. the book of life doesn't change. if someones name is in it they will be saved. that is another reason i do not believe in true believers falling away. one who is truly saved has his name in that book, and if they were able to fall away that would imply that they were able to take there name out of that book. i tell you that we have no such power.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Like I said you can't have it both ways Cman.

 

[cman77]

So you're saying that there are some names in the book of life that shouldn't be there? it seems to me that an eternal, omniscient, sovereign, holy god would no whose names he was going to put into the book. what your saying is that god makes mistakes. i know you don't believe god makes mistakes, but it is what you are saying. as for this verse you posted it is not speaking of so called "christian" that have fallen away, but rather the faithful church who have not. the emphasis in this verse in not the part about blotting out a name, which he would never do, but rather the honor he is going to give the church.

 

[HoneyBare]

I haven't read all of this thread, but one of the thoughts I had as I read some, is that if a sinner is to come to the knowledge of Salvation, and the Holy Spirit draws him to that knowledge, it is best if he "wings it" and asks for Christ's mercy on his own. That way, it makes his prayer his own and not someone else's.

It's a heart thing more than anything. My own dh recently decided on his own that he believes in God now. He said he and God "reconciled," and they "had a talk." We are not used to sharing stuff like that with eachother, so I was really surprised he'd tell me, but I'm glad it was his own decision and not because of something I'd asked him to do.

Now, he just needs to understand about the forgiveness of sins thing, which I am hoping he will read in the Bible. I know God is leading him. Thanx for your prayers.

 

[cman77]

it is best if he "wings it" and asks for Christ's mercy on his own

he would never have chose to follow god unless god first chose him. you said yourself that God is leading him. if he has come to a true saving faith it should comfort you to know that it cannot be lost.

 

[rojoloco]

That scriptures says nothing of a special elect your simply adding to scripture again for the benefit of supporting your own opinion.

οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ εἰς ὑμᾶς μὴ βουλόμενός τινας ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Read it, there is nothing here that even eludes to any special group.

Sure it does. Look at the very first verse:

Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

Peter is speaking to believers. There is no denying that he is referring to a special group of people and not to everyone. Look at the facts:

1) To those who have saving faith (1:1)
2) The same faith as "ours" which refers to believers (1:1)
3) long-suffering toward "us" which means believers (3:9)
4) willing that none should perish (3:9)
5) willing that all should come to repentance (3:9)

We know people die. We know people go to Hell. We know not everybody will come to repentance. We know that nobody can be outside the Will of God. Knowing all these things and seeing that both 1:1 and 3:9 are speaking with believers in mind, there is only one possible conclusion. The Elect of Romans 9 will all come to repentance and none of them will perish. This is God's Will.

Peter wrote to believers. Believers have the same saving faith. God is patient toward believers. Believers will never perish. All believers will come to repentance. It is this last part that makes no sense. Believers are already in a state of repentance. This happened upon receiving saving faith. However, it speaks not of the past tense but of the future. This is because it refers to the Elect who have not yet received saving faith but will do so in God's good timing when He calls them unto Himself.

 

[rojoloco]

Amen x 10 my friend. Men are asked to choose severaly times in the Bible. Why would God ask them to choose if they had no choice but to have life or death. The proper perspective has to merge predestination with choice as both are scriptural. On any given subject choosing one view and purposely ignoring the other (instead of viewing one in light of the other) is how a major cult forged the majority of it's doctrines.

Martin Luther addresses this point perfectly in The Bondage of the Will written in 1525. I will post a quote that I highlighted in my copy of it when reading it.

The Diatribe dreams that man is whole and sound (as to human view, in his own sphere, he is); hence it argues from the phrases: 'If thou art willing', 'If thou shalt do', 'If thou shalt hear', that man is being mocked, unless his will is free. But Scripture describes man as corrupted and led captive, and, furthermore, as proudly disdaining to notice, and failing to, recognize, his own corruption and captivity; therefore, it uses these phrases to goad and rouse him, that he may know by sure experience how unable he is to do any of these things.

To add to Luther's point, we see the Old Testament laws are called the Law of Sin & Death. This is not because the Law was evil but because the Law pointed out the evil in man. The Law was holy and upright but it also shows how man is the exact opposite of this.

God using His Holy Word as a tool to show people how they are helpless is nothing new. He did it using the Law and He did it everywhere there appears to be a choice to do good.

 

[rojoloco]

Lession #1, I know who my God is and his name.

The Lord Jesus Christ has all power and authority in heaven and earth.

Lession #2, You twist scripture and use wrong words.

Replace elect, with "The Lords sheep".

Lession #3, Sadly many reject God's will for their lives and follow their own, hence for them to end up in eternal destruction!

Lession #4, Although God is in complete control and chooses who is to live and die, it also involves your decisions in which he already knew you would make. My God is mighty in power, and his understanding has no limits. So yes, there is still free-will involved, otherwise Deuteronomy 30:19 would be a lie.

Lession #5, Learn to humble yourself before the living Word of God, accept correction, slow to speak, and quick to listen.

Reply #1, Very true.

Reply #2, I take the Bible for what it says as a whole. No twisting involved. As for the Lord's sheep, all of the Elect are His sheep upon being called into the fold. None outside of His Elect will ever be called.

Reply #3, This is because it is in their very nature to reject Christ. They only want to do evil because they hate the Light lest their evil deeds should be exposed. We are incapable of changing our nature and we are bound to follow it.

Reply #4, If it requires anything other than God, He is not in full control. If we are only saved based on choices He knew we would make, we would all be going to Hell because the only choice we freely make it rejecting God based on our own nature. As for Deuteronomy 30:19, look at the quote I just posted by Martin Luther. It addresses apparent "contradictions" such as this.

Reply #5, I wish people were more open to this. It is the only reason I am where I am today.

 

[rojoloco]

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Please examine the scripture above (red emphasis mine):
Isaiah plainly demonstrates God chose a destiny for this people because of their choices.
Predestination is according to foreknowledge and that is foreknowledge of their hearts and their choices.




Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I see contradictions all over your post. You say that God called all, some rejected Him while others chose Him of their own will, & God "elected" only those whom He knew would choose Him of their own will in the future.

However, let's look at what you posted. You claim that God calls all people but only some choose Him while others reject. You then go on to post a verse that says He only called those whom He predestined. Furthermore, it says He justified and glorified everybody whom He called. Well, this puts us in a pickle now doesn't it?

God has His Elect. It was based on His own decisions that we are not to question (Romans 9). To everybody who is not of God, the Word of God is foolishness to him and he cannot understand it (1 Corinthians 2:14). We are all caught up by our own nature and driven by it. We cannot change it (Jeremiah 13:23). Our freedom is limited to our nature and our nature is limited to rejecting Christ. Because of this, our freedom is really nothing more than the very chains that bind us. God elected some, He only gives the inward call to them. The call which is rejected is the outward call and this is because they cannot understand it. God's Elect are very much so based on His foreknowledge. It is a knowledge of His very Will which holds existence together.

 

[rojoloco]

Ahhh, so then it is very possible to be the elect and then become the non-elect seeing how all of the new testament is directed towards the "church".

Hbr 10:26 ¶ For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Sorry but you can't have it both ways Cman.

One cannot sin willingly if they have received saving faith. However, one can have knowledge of God and remain unsaved. Romans 1 is clear on this. One can remain a knowledge of truth but still sit in a world of unrighteousness. However, one can only truly understand the things of the Spirit if they first have the Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Like I said you can't have it both ways Cman

This is not a threat of blotting out names but rather, a promise that it will never occur. It is encouragement that screams the promise of perseverance of the saints. Those who are in the book of life will never be blotted out and will overcome.

 

[rojoloco]

he would never have chose to follow god unless god first chose him. you said yourself that God is leading him. if he has come to a true saving faith it should comfort you to know that it cannot be lost.

Amen! The only reason he chose God is because God first chose him. God changed his nature so that he would desire Him. We are slaves to nature therefore, God had to change his nature before he could ever desire Him. God has a plan and no man is strong enough to alter it.

 

[jiggyfly]

So you're saying that there are some names in the book of life that shouldn't be there? it seems to me that an eternal, omniscient, sovereign, holy god would no whose names he was going to put into the book. what your saying is that god makes mistakes. i know you don't believe god makes mistakes, but it is what you are saying. as for this verse you posted it is not speaking of so called "christian" that have fallen away, but rather the faithful church who have not. the emphasis in this verse in not the part about blotting out a name, which he would never do, but rather the honor he is going to give the church.

All I did was quote scripture, Jesus said it, and according to your earlier statement the new testament is addressing and directed to the elect.

 

[jiggyfly]

One cannot sin willingly if they have received saving faith. However, one can have knowledge of God and remain unsaved. Romans 1 is clear on this. One can remain a knowledge of truth but still sit in a world of unrighteousness. However, one can only truly understand the things of the Spirit if they first have the Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14).



This is not a threat of blotting out names but rather, a promise that it will never occur. It is encouragement that screams the promise of perseverance of the saints. Those who are in the book of life will never be blotted out and will overcome.

Rojo the scripture disagrees with you rather than manipulate the scriptures meaning to fit your belief why not change what you believe to fit the scriptures meaning?

 

[Boanerges]

Martin Luther addresses this point perfectly in The Bondage of the Will written in 1525. I will post a quote that I highlighted in my copy of it when reading it.



To add to Luther's point, we see the Old Testament laws are called the Law of Sin & Death. This is not because the Law was evil but because the Law pointed out the evil in man. The Law was holy and upright but it also shows how man is the exact opposite of this.

God using His Holy Word as a tool to show people how they are helpless is nothing new. He did it using the Law and He did it everywhere there appears to be a choice to do good.

Regardless of Mr Luther's view God it is scriptural that gave man choice. As much as I admire Martin I no more subscribe to his theology than to that of Calvin.
That dates back to the beginning when Adam choose to disobey God.
I have given you bible verses you have given my your opinion on them.
Ignoring one aspect of the Bible does not make ones view of another correct and one must be viewed in the light of the other or error creeps in.
Let me repeat the bible verse I posted earlier with the parts you missed highlighted :

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Please examine the scripture above (red emphasis mine):
Isaiah plainly demonstrates God chose a destiny for this people because of their choices.
Predestination is according to foreknowledge and that is foreknowledge of their hearts and their choices.

 

[rojoloco]

Rojo the scripture disagrees with you rather than manipulate the scriptures meaning to fit your belief why not change what you believe to fit the scriptures meaning?

If you call using the whole of Scripture to come to a conclusion manipulating, there is no help in this matter. You took one verse and misinterpreted it. I took 3 different passages, showed how they all work together to show the proper context of each other, and somehow I am the one who is manipulating Scripture.

 

[rojoloco]

Regardless of Mr Luther's view God it is scriptural that gave man choice. As much as I admire Martin I no more subscribe to his theology than to that of Calvin.
That dates back to the beginning when Adam choose to disobey God.
I have given you bible verses you have given my your opinion on them.
Ignoring one aspect of the Bible does not make ones view of another correct and one must be viewed in the light of the other or error creeps in.

I gave you far more than opinion. I gave you exegetical study and sound hermeneutic study using Scripture as a whole. I never refute one's interpretation with opinion. I refute it using Scripture and then incorporate the refuted verse into the fold to show how it all works together. If there are any supposed contradictions, the interpretation is invalid.

Let me repeat the bible verse I posted earlier with the parts you missed highlighted :

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Please examine the scripture above (red emphasis mine):
Isaiah plainly demonstrates God chose a destiny for this people because of their choices.
Predestination is according to foreknowledge and that is foreknowledge of their hearts and their choices.

This is an oxymoron. Predestination is something set in stone beforehand. In fact, the Greek relates it to a decree of God. It is an ordination of God. There is no way for Him to ordain something before it happens yet base it on something that would happen down the road without Him. Suppose He had never predestined them. Would they have still chosen Him? Your belief says no as does mine as it would have been impossible. Instead of leaving it at that, you then go on to say they were only predestined because they chose Him. There can be only one cause and one effect. Either predestination is the cause and "choice" is the effect or choice is the cause and "predestination" is the effect. They are in quotations because if the cause of each example is valid, the effect of each corresponding example is mislabeled.