God loves everybody?

[ChildrenOfLight]

if God does love everybody and wanted them all to be saved, then why aren't they saved?

God so loved us first, therefore we should love God.

Many avoid God's love, and refuse to love Him.

Therefore read romans ch.1+2

He looks away from many whom He loves, and gives them over to their reprobate mind, letting them chase their vain lusts.

I happen to feel caught in this dilemma sometimes, and feel I could have been given over to lust due to some of my sins, God forbid.

But God merely looks away from the ungodly sinners, who have no remorse for what they do wrongfully.

He still loves us each and everyone as like we would love cute little puppy dogs.

 

[Boanerges]

I recommend 2 wonderful books for you to read on the matter:

1) The Sovereignty of God by A.W. Pink (circa 1918)
2) The Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther (circa 1525)

I had a joke in mind for a response, but I will defer and give you this:


My friend, this thread is beginning to be a repetition of the same material from both sides so I believe it is time for me to exit this thread. I have enoyed the discussion (iron sharpens iron).
As it is obvious that neither of us is going to change their position soon I will just agree to disagree with you.

We may not agree doctrinally on everything till He returns but we can be one in heart, purpose and unity of spirit serving our Lord till then.
Much love and many blessings in Jesus Name,
your brother Larry.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Ok I did agree to go to church with my wife and daughters that day, but I did not go to be saved, or worship, I went as a favour to my wife. But when Father decided to show me my life, and He awakened the knowledge of righteousness in me, I wanted to change.

Jakes: Your salvation story begins like mine. I, too, went to church that night as a favor to my wife. My attitude was "lets get this over with and go home so I can get a beer." Neither of us wanted to change as we walked into the church building when we did, but we both were encountered by the Holy Spirit and the course of our lives was radically changed.

The point of this thread, though, is does God love everybody? or only the saved?Rojoloco claims that God loves everyone who accepts His call, but hates the people who reject it.

My position is that God hates sin, but not the snners.He loves everyone. Hatred, as we humans know it, is defined as the absense of love and can only occur in imperfect beings. Our God is perfect and, being perfect, His love is complete; it flows out fully upon all people all the time and is not based upon our performance. Hating sinners, then, would be a violation of His nature.

""As surely as I live," declares the Sovereign Lord, "I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live." (Eze 33:11 NIV)

SLE

 

[cman77]

I find it odd that there are people arguing this when it is clearly stated it the bible that there are some people that god hates. Jacob have I loved Esau have I hated. i know the argument for this says that a better translation would say "chosen" rather than love, but obviously what he had for Jacob he didn't have for Esau. One last thing. God must hate. He loves holiness and therefore must hate sin. i am sick of this crap about loving the sinner and hating the sin. WE ARE SIN!!. just as God is Love we are Sin. and god hates sin

 

[SpiritLedEd]

WE ARE SIN!!. just as God is Love we are Sin. and god hates sin

By using the inclusive phrase "We are sin", you are saying that you are sin. If you are sin and God hates sin, how can He possibly love you?

SLE

 

[jakes]

God hates sin.

Yes God hates sin cman777. But does God hate sinners, well let us look at what the Word says. He loves them enough to call them! Where too? To Him, to end up IN HIM!... Jesus said.... I did not come for the righteouss but for sinners... TO REPENT. Now! I know every person that repents, are merely listening to God. And the ones that repent to the end of their sin, they are the ones that loves God. And then God loves them, not before! God's last loving act to sinners was the sacrifice of His Son. ONCE! God loved the world... the sinning people that would repent! NOT sinners. He called the ones that did not repent... hypocrates,.. serpants ...children of the devil... etc. And who does He call children, the ones He loves.... LOOK. John 14:23. The ones that keepeth His words are the ones that loves Him, and THEN will the Father love them and BOTH Jesus and the Father will make THEIR abode with them.

Jesus clearly made a destinction between the two groups of people on this world. The ones God loves, and the ones that loves themselves. Or satan! Jesus often said... "they and you" .. Or ... "We are but they..." only two groups of people on this planet: God's and Satan's... And God's is by far the minority! So few, I do not even claim to be so presumpteous as to call myself a child of God. If I am it is nothing to boast about in the first place. Because I did not become one, He made me one!

Too many people are claiming with the talk, but not showing the walk. The Word says clearly the ones that are IN CHRIST, are supposed to walk as He did. That is perfect, because Jesus was perfect. 1 Jon 2:6
Part of the words Jesus expects us to keep is Matthew 5:48. Now here the majority falls off the wagon they claim to be on! But i know a few...FEW... that does not fall off here.
Just before you ask, let me give the answer... I am one of the ones that would fall off, but I cannot fall of the "Christian" wagon because i never claimed to be on it in the first place.
ALL reborn children of God CANNOT sin. 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.
They are perfect, to the same stature and measure of the fulness of Christ.... Eph 4:11,12,13.

The first thing God does with a re-born, is to make him perfect! Perfect as Father is perfect. Why because it is His will that His children should be Holy as He is Holy. And He does so to PLANT His Holy Spirit in them, refered to as seed in 1 John 3:9. And that Holy Spirit CANNOT sin! And God LOVES the Holy Spirit. So this is how God loves His Children! He Gave them the Holy Spirit, because they persevered till the end of sin in their lives.

The Word teaches us that the Spirit leads before He fills! The Spirit will lead us to righteousness in Truth! In the Word of God He will lead us! Even during this leading part we are Children of God, because God knows who would follow to the end. He says... Many are called few are chosen, because few follw all the way! And every chosen is also glorified! Romans 8:30. All were called first, and the following of the Holy Spirit is the justification and sanctification. It is all completed with a baptism, The ONLY baptism.... Eph 4:5. ..

May God unite us In Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit! John 17:22. Then we are One in Him. That is where we should end up, before we exhale our last breath!

 

[Mr.Lite]

Yes God loves everybody.

He gave each person the gift of life.

It's God's will that none should die and go to hell, but instead repent of their sins and turn to God.

Sadly many neglect their free gift of eternal life while they are alive and reap their decisions made on this earth.

And who is at fault from a man dying w/out being warned about the wrath to come?

You and I.

2 Peter 3:9 (New King James Version)
<sup id="en-NKJV-30528" class="versenum">9</sup> The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Ezekiel 33:8 (New King James Version)
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-21285">8</sup> When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you shall surely die!’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

 

[cman77]

...............................

 

[cman77]

By using the inclusive phrase "We are sin", you are saying that you are sin. If you are sin and God hates sin, how can He possibly love you?
SLE

when Nicodemus asked Jesus what must I do to be saved? Jesus responded you must be born again. I, by nature was Sin. upon Conversion I was Born Again and made into a new creation that was no longer a slave to sin but a slave to Christ.

 

[ChildrenOfLight]

when Nicodemus asked Jesus what must I do to be saved? Jesus responded you must be born again. I, by nature was Sin. upon Conversion I was Born Again and made into a new creation that was no longer a slave to sin but a slave to Christ.

i understand what you said is biblical and true.




Jesus came to grant us sinners a chance for salvation.

This was an act of love.

REJOICE!

 

[rojoloco]

By using the inclusive phrase "We are sin", you are saying that you are sin. If you are sin and God hates sin, how can He possibly love you?

SLE

It's simple. Romans 5:8 says that God demonstrates His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. The us us not all inclusive. It is referring to the Elect only. It is current believers as well as those whom God has in mind to call in accordance with His Will. He does not love all humanity without exception. He loves all humanity without distinction. The Elect is not confined to only Jews but rather Jews and Gentiles. However, this does not mean every Jew and Gentile will be saved. God only loves His Elect.

 

[rojoloco]

Yes God loves everybody.

He gave each person the gift of life.

It's God's will that none should die and go to hell, but instead repent of their sins and turn to God.

Sadly many neglect their free gift of eternal life while they are alive and reap their decisions made on this earth.

And who is at fault from a man dying w/out being warned about the wrath to come?

You and I.

I'm glad I serve a God more powerful than the one you described above. According to you, this God in your description does nothing but sit on the sidelines. He has no control over His creation. He does not actually save anybody but rather, waits for them to save themselves. He sent His Son to die in nothing more than a desperate hope that even one person would choose Him when it could have worked out that nobody would and his death would have been in vain. As it stands you are of the position that Jesus' death is in vain countless times per day. In fact, you must proclaim that the death of Jesus was mostly in vain with a few exceptions that make it have purpose. In other words, the death of Jesus was largely without purpose and hinged on nothing more than hopes and dreams of God. You must also admit that people are stronger than God for you claim that God wills that no man go to Hell yet people go outside this very will of God by overpowering Him.

Again, I'm glad I serve a God more powerful that that. My God is in control of all of creation. My God has willed that none of His Elect shall perish and, because it is His all powerful Will, none will perish. My God sent His Son to die with a purpose and that purpose was to reconcile His Elect to Himself. Not even a percentage of Christ's death was in vain or without purpose. It was 100% effective for those it was meant for. There is no such thing as free will to choose Christ as free will is what binds people to sin. We are left to our own desires and those desires are of the devil. It is only after God changes our nature that we have a desire for Christ. Again, our choice is directed by our will and our will is directed by our nature and our nature is directed by God.

 

[rojoloco]

I did not choose God, God chose me

Amen Brother. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We serve a God that is more awesome that someone who simply sits around hoping the death of Christ was not in vain. We serve a God with a purpose and a plan and outside of it, nothing exists.

 

[jiggyfly]

I'm glad I serve a God more powerful than the one you described above. According to you, this God in your description does nothing but sit on the sidelines. He has no control over His creation. He does not actually save anybody but rather, waits for them to save themselves. He sent His Son to die in nothing more than a desperate hope that even one person would choose Him when it could have worked out that nobody would and his death would have been in vain. As it stands you are of the position that Jesus' death is in vain countless times per day. In fact, you must proclaim that the death of Jesus was mostly in vain with a few exceptions that make it have purpose. In other words, the death of Jesus was largely without purpose and hinged on nothing more than hopes and dreams of God. You must also admit that people are stronger than God for you claim that God wills that no man go to Hell yet people go outside this very will of God by overpowering Him.

Again, I'm glad I serve a God more powerful that that. My God is in control of all of creation. My God has willed that none of His Elect shall perish and, because it is His all powerful Will, none will perish. My God sent His Son to die with a purpose and that purpose was to reconcile His Elect to Himself. Not even a percentage of Christ's death was in vain or without purpose. It was 100% effective for those it was meant for. There is no such thing as free will to choose Christ as free will is what binds people to sin. We are left to our own desires and those desires are of the devil. It is only after God changes our nature that we have a desire for Christ. Again, our choice is directed by our will and our will is directed by our nature and our nature is directed by God.

That scriptures says nothing of a special elect your simply adding to scripture again for the benefit of supporting your own opinion.

οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ εἰς ὑμᾶς μὴ βουλόμενός τινας ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Read it, there is nothing here that even eludes to any special group.

 

[Boanerges]

That scriptures says nothing of a special elect your simply adding to scripture again for the benefit of supporting your own opinion.

οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ εἰς ὑμᾶς μὴ βουλόμενός τινας ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Read it, there is nothing here that even eludes to any special group.

Amen x 10 my friend. Men are asked to choose severaly times in the Bible. Why would God ask them to choose if they had no choice but to have life or death. The proper perspective has to merge predestination with choice as both are scriptural. On any given subject choosing one view and purposely ignoring the other (instead of viewing one in light of the other) is how a major cult forged the majority of it's doctrines.





I do not present the following verses to refute my friends but that they may see their one aspect of God's Word in the light of the other. Selah.







Christ died for all, every, whosoever:

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

On choosing:
Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.



God will all be saved. If all are not saved then some are not obedient to His will and Word thus choosing damnation:
Israel was God's chosen or "elect" but many rejected the Lord, this was plainly a choice.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

1Sa 10:19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the LORD by your tribes, and by your thousands.


Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 

[Mr.Lite]

That scriptures says nothing of a special elect your simply adding to scripture again for the benefit of supporting your own opinion.

οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ εἰς ὑμᾶς μὴ βουλόμενός τινας ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Read it, there is nothing here that even eludes to any special group.

Amen, look at Moses for example. He killed a man, but God chose him to lead his people out of Egypt into the land flowing with milk and honey

God will open himself up to ANYBODY who trusts in him whole heartily!

 

[Mr.Lite]

I'm glad I serve a God more powerful than the one you described above. According to you, this God in your description does nothing but sit on the sidelines. He has no control over His creation. He does not actually save anybody but rather, waits for them to save themselves. He sent His Son to die in nothing more than a desperate hope that even one person would choose Him when it could have worked out that nobody would and his death would have been in vain. As it stands you are of the position that Jesus' death is in vain countless times per day. In fact, you must proclaim that the death of Jesus was mostly in vain with a few exceptions that make it have purpose. In other words, the death of Jesus was largely without purpose and hinged on nothing more than hopes and dreams of God. You must also admit that people are stronger than God for you claim that God wills that no man go to Hell yet people go outside this very will of God by overpowering Him.

Again, I'm glad I serve a God more powerful that that. My God is in control of all of creation. My God has willed that none of His Elect shall perish and, because it is His all powerful Will, none will perish. My God sent His Son to die with a purpose and that purpose was to reconcile His Elect to Himself. Not even a percentage of Christ's death was in vain or without purpose. It was 100% effective for those it was meant for. There is no such thing as free will to choose Christ as free will is what binds people to sin. We are left to our own desires and those desires are of the devil. It is only after God changes our nature that we have a desire for Christ. Again, our choice is directed by our will and our will is directed by our nature and our nature is directed by God.

Lession #1, I know who my God is and his name.

The Lord Jesus Christ has all power and authority in heaven and earth.

Lession #2, You twist scripture and use wrong words.

Replace elect, with "The Lords sheep".

Lession #3, Sadly many reject God's will for their lives and follow their own, hence for them to end up in eternal destruction!

Lession #4, Although God is in complete control and chooses who is to live and die, it also involves your decisions in which he already knew you would make. My God is mighty in power, and his understanding has no limits. So yes, there is still free-will involved, otherwise Deuteronomy 30:19 would be a lie.

Lession #5, Learn to humble yourself before the living Word of God, accept correction, slow to speak, and quick to listen.

 

[Boanerges]

Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Please examine the scripture above (red emphasis mine):
Isaiah plainly demonstrates God chose a destiny for this people because of their choices.
Predestination is according to foreknowledge and that is foreknowledge of their hearts and their choices.




Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[cman77]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Read it, there is nothing here that even eludes to any special group.

A lot of people don't seem to realize that 2 Peter, along with the rest of the new testament, is a letter to the church. that is the special group. the church is who he is talking to when he says long suffering toward us-ward. and one more thing, the lord did not promise anything to those who are against him

 

[esther]

Ascribe to the Lord o mighty ones ascribe to the Lord glory and strength, Ascribe to the lord the glory due his name worship the Lord in the splenders of his holiness. psalm29verse1and2