False teaching

[BecuzHeLives]

Hi guys,

I was doing some research on Kenneth Hagin and the faith of movement. I was always thought there was something odd about him and his theory that Jesus himself was a born-again Christian. There are so many preacher on TV teaching false doctrine. How does you guys found out someone is teaching false doctrines?? Anyone in here have the spiritual gift of discerment?? It so hard these days to trust a preacher credibility. I found some of the informations on GotQuestions.org, here is the exception.

The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the latter 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it claim it" originated) fit well with the emerging Pentecostal movement and its emphasis on the supernatural, so he combined them and created a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin in turn studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.

It claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born-again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.

I hope those who have the gift of speaking in tongues don't get discourage from these people because the gift of speaking in tongues come from God not from these people who taught false doctrine. God Bless everyone, please beware of false teaching. I have seen alot lately. Mainly beware of those preachers who only taught about the happiness and making a believers believe that following Christ is easy and fun. This could cause a big shock in a person's life when they have face obstacles in life, which they may end up losing their faith and stop believing altogether.

 

[Faithful Son]

Thank you so much for sharing BecuzHeLives, I generally don't to research on other religions or other ways of practicing Christianity, but now I now this word of faith movement is not something I want to be part of.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[jculver]

Hi guys,

I was doing some research on Kenneth Hagin and the faith of movement. I was always thought there was something odd about him and his theory that Jesus himself was a born-again Christian. There are so many preacher on TV teaching false doctrine. How does you guys found out someone is teaching false doctrines?? Anyone in here have the spiritual gift of discerment?? It so hard these days to trust a preacher credibility. I found some of the informations on GotQuestions.org, here is the exception.

The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the latter 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it claim it" originated) fit well with the emerging Pentecostal movement and its emphasis on the supernatural, so he combined them and created a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin in turn studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.

It claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born-again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.

I hope those who have the gift of speaking in tongues don't get discourage from these people because the gift of speaking in tongues come from God not from these people who taught false doctrine. God Bless everyone, please beware of false teaching. I have seen alot lately. Mainly beware of those preachers who only taught about the happiness and making a believers believe that following Christ is easy and fun. This could cause a big shock in a person's life when they have face obstacles in life, which they may end up losing their faith and stop believing altogether.

Avoid at all costs IMO. Some Good reading on the subject would be John Macarthur's "The Charismatics" or "Charismatic Chaos". Dangerous stuff. Also speaking in tongues should not be thought of as those weird sort of utterances that you hear people imitate. In the book of Acts it is clearly referring to people speaking in languages they do not know. Personally I believe this gift was given to Apostles only, and not disciples. Just my .02$

 

[jiggyfly]

Avoid at all costs IMO. Some Good reading on the subject would be John Macarthur's "The Charismatics" or "Charismatic Chaos". Dangerous stuff. Also speaking in tongues should not be thought of as those weird sort of utterances that you hear people imitate. In the book of Acts it is clearly referring to people speaking in languages they do not know. Personally I believe this gift was given to Apostles only, and not disciples. Just my .02$

Acts 10:44-46
44*Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message. 45*The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles, too. 46*And there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Acts 19:1-7
1*While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers.* 2*“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we don’t know what you mean. We haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3*“Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4*Paul said, “John’s baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later.”
5*As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6*Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7*There were about twelve men in all.

And it is still happening today to every born-again believer who desires the baptism of the Holy Ghost and His spiritual gifts.

 

[jiggyfly]

Great post BecuzHeLives, we need to be on guard against all of these false teachings and false teachers. Leaders should be discerned by their character not their natural charisma. Leaders are to teach by example and yet many self proclaimed leaders won't allow anyone to get too close. Some even hire body guards, I guess their jesus isn't powerful enough to protect them himself or maybe he is too busy and the job gets contracted out. Whatever the excuse is HOGWASH.

Jesus said that to be His disciple we must deny ourselves take up our crosses daily and follow after Him. If a teaching, sermon, or study does not encourage you to do what Jesus said then it is not from Him. Pretty simple, isn't it. If we look at things honestly, it isn't hard to figure out what is carnal and what is spiritual. If it doesn't involve the decreasing of self and the increasing of Christ it simply is not God the Father, Son or HolyGhost, period.:lightbulb

 

[jculver]

Acts 10:44-46
44*Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message. 45*The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles, too. 46*And there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Acts 19:1-7
1*While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers.* 2*“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we don’t know what you mean. We haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3*“Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4*Paul said, “John’s baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later.”
5*As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6*Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7*There were about twelve men in all.

And it is still happening today to every born-again believer who desires the baptism of the Holy Ghost and His spiritual gifts.

I guess I should rephrase what I said as you have proved my words wrong. I am sorry for my careless wording.

I don't believe as some believe that people still speak in tongues. I guess it is possible, but it is not those utterances or random gibberish. I believe that the speaking in tongues occurred during the "apostolic age", the time in which the apostles were still alive, or an even shorter period that started when the book of Acts chapter 2 was recorded. I believe it happened to anyone who was truly under the Old Testament covenant, and was brought into the new. So I do not believe this could be going on today unless per chance you have some real deal Old Covenant people who have missed out on the New Testament their whole lives and then are converted. Notice the men in acts 19:17 believed John the Baptist. They were under the old covenant and when brought under the new covenant they spoke in tongues.


As far as "prophesying", often times people pervert the meaning of that word horribly. They think that means people can tell the future with the Holy Spirit.

The verb "to prophesy" in the Greek is propheteuo. It comes from the two words pro, which means "before," and phemi, which means "to speak." Literally, then, the verb propheteuo means "to speak before."

Anytime you talk to someone, or speaking before a group, you are prophesizing. It isn't speaking the future like some Christian movements seam to think.

So acts 19:1-7, I believe it is Paul basically asking them if they had been baptized in the name of Jesus. When he asked if they received the Holy Spirit he was questioning their spiritual status. Then when he baptized them in the name of Jesus they correctly received the Holy Spirit and were baptized with the Holy Spirit bringing them into the covenant from the old at which point they were able to speak in tongues confirming their old to new transformation. In acts 10:46 I believe the same is true, and they had been brought from the old covenant to the new, and to confirm this before the apostles they spoke in tongues. That’s my belief, I hope I clarified this enough and I apologize for my careless wording in my previous post.

 

[baruch]

How does you guys found out someone is teaching false doctrines??

Hi BecuzHElives, in answer to your question, read 1John 4:1-6.
There are many false teachers and prophets, you have to discern if what they say is backed up by scripture, eg, where in scripture does it say that anyone who receives Holy Spirit, barks or howls like an animal or writhes about on the ground, is there any scripture that mentions anyone being "slayed by the Spirit" No, I can't find one.

the death of Jesus, was death of death for me.

 

[stephen]

Not wanting to Hi-jack this thread.....But in the light of remarks made...I thought of John ch 7 v 37

"In the last day, that last great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried saying, "If anyman thirst, let him come unto me and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water". But this spake he of the Spirit..........."

Do we know anything about this?

After all the ritual, all the ceremony....all the blood shedding....all the fulfilling of scripture...all the expence of energy........Jesus stood and cried out "If any man thirst let him come unto me and drink" Wow

There is something more to be had than..........It is the Baptism, .....out of his belly, not out of his head, his understanding, his goodness,knowledge etc......out of his belly......."this spake he of the Spirit"

LOrd Jesus equip us as you equipped the early church........Bring us back to the dimension Holy Spirit ministry

 

[BecuzHeLives]

Hi BecuzHElives, in answer to your question, read 1John 4:1-6.
There are many false teachers and prophets, you have to discern if what they say is backed up by scripture, eg, where in scripture does it say that anyone who receives Holy Spirit, barks or howls like an animal or writhes about on the ground, is there any scripture that mentions anyone being "slayed by the Spirit" No, I can't find one.

the death of Jesus, was death of death for me.

Thank you Baruch..very true...Gotquestions.org answer that question about Holy Laughter too...It's very accurate...

To Jculver: Speaking in new tongues was promise in the Mark 16:17; And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. If you don't believe in what the Holy Spirit can do through your life or allow him to work through you, you're quenching the Holy Spirit. But I understand and agree with some aspect of your perspective. Such as don't get all emotional and just think about the spiritual gifts and forgot about what Jesus have done for us. I believe in the act of love, as we trying to reach out to others, God equips us with different spiritual gifts to help others and speaking in tounges is use to help you able to communite to God and edify yourself. Jesus Christ, the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever. Hebrew 13:8. and he will keep his promise to us those who believe in him.

I totally agree with Stephen and Jiggyfly..so much knowledge.. God bless brothers and sisters.

 

[jculver]

Thank you Baruch..very true...Gotquestions.org answer that question about Holy Laughter too...It's very accurate...

To Jculver: Speaking in new tongues was promise in the Mark 16:17; And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. If you don't believe in what the Holy Spirit can do through your life or allow him to work through you, you're quenching the Holy Spirit. But I understand and agree with some aspect of your perspective. Such as don't get all emotional and just think about the spiritual gifts and forgot about what Jesus have done for us. I believe in the act of love, as we trying to reach out to others, God equips us with different spiritual gifts to help others and speaking in tounges is use to help you able to communite to God and edify yourself. Jesus Christ, the same Yesterday, Today, and Forever. Hebrew 13:8. and he will keep his promise to us those who believe in him.

I totally agree with Stephen and Jiggyfly..so much knowledge.. God bless brothers and sisters.

Mark 16:9-20 is not even present in the earliest, most reliable manuscripts of scripture. It is highly likely they should not be there, but remain there because there is question. To base any argument off these verses, such as the argument of tongues, or the argument that water baptism is necessary for salvation (both beliefs stem from these verses) is dangerous at the very minimum.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

Anyway, if you speak in tongues let me know. If anyone else you know speaks in tongues let me know. If you have ever met anyone, or if there was ever anyone who was a reputable Christian that was able to speak in a language he did not study and learn let me know, and I will change my position immediately. I don't mean those utterances or random gibberishes that people spew, I mean what the bible means when it says speaking in tongues: speaking in a language they did not know. I bolded that text in your quote because you indicate you believe speaking in tongues is a gift given so we can speak to God? As if he can not understand english, or if there is some language that he understands better? This belief is shared by charismatics like Hagin that their stuttering and utterances are high forms of communication. Scripture always indicated tongues being used from person to person, not person to God.

Speaking in tongues was a special gift for a special time. Even gotquestions.org agrees at least mostly with my belief:

http://www.gotquestions.org/tongues-Holy-Spirit.html

In this day and age we can study other languages. Is the bible not translated by men into many other languages; or do we forget all that and just go into other countries expecting to preach the gospel in tongues? Speaking in tongues occurred 3 times when people received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Saying it is a gift of the spirit in this age often leads people down the path of miracles angels and etc., which should be byproducts of the faith, not it's focus. It is possible today that people do speak in tongues, but at the very minimum it is the most extremely rare gift of the spirit, and is only ever given to someone in a very rare situation.

I don't mean my posts to be argumentative as that is not their purpose. The purpose of my post was to comment on False Teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, which seemed to be the thought behind your initial post. The first thing that comes to my mind with pentecostal, and charismatic false teachers like that is speaking in tongues. There is such danger in basing your faith on experiences and feelings it should make a Christian skeptical at least when such a topic arises.

 

[justsavedvince]

Arnold Murray false teacher!?

Hey everyone, since we're on the topic of false teaching, I was told yesterday that Arnold Murray is a false teacher. For months I've shown much respect for that guy because of his in depth teaching of the Word. He seemed to be the only Real, Blunt, preacher on TV. I really thought, "this guy I can trust." Does anyone have any insight on why he may be considered a false teacher? He always warns us on how not to be deceived, it's hard for me to see him as a deceiver.

 

[jculver]

Hey everyone, since we're on the topic of false teaching, I was told yesterday that Arnold Murray is a false teacher. For months I've shown much respect for that guy because of his in depth teaching of the Word. He seemed to be the only Real, Blunt, preacher on TV. I really thought, "this guy I can trust." Does anyone have any insight on why he may be considered a false teacher? He always warns us on how not to be deceived, it's hard for me to see him as a deceiver.

It could have something to do with "Take this 9mm to that boy"

[edited by Chad: no links without permission!]

Sorry I posted that Link! The link showed Arnold Murray pulling a gun out of his briefcase mid sermon.

Honestly I have no idea what kind of man he is, but that incedent was probably the one where people really started to question him.

Type his name into Wikipedia.org, they often discuss any conrtoversy over a teacher/minister. The guy could be a fine instrument of God's, but the fact that he carries a gun in a briefcase is worrysome. Hard to say :X

After seeing what wikipedia has to say it appears this guy has some very controversial doctrines he follows, such as annihilation, and that eve was impregnated by satan. Anyway, wiki isn't always right, but I would look into him further.

 

[Word of Life]

Mark 16:9-20 Anyway, if you speak in tongues let me know. If anyone else you know speaks in tongues let me know. If you have ever met anyone, or if there was ever anyone who was a reputable Christian that was able to speak in a language he did not study and learn let me know, and I will change my position immediately. I don't mean those utterances or random gibberishes that people spew, I mean what the bible means when it says speaking in tongues: speaking in a language they did not know. I bolded that text in your quote because you indicate you believe speaking in tongues is a gift given so we can speak to God? As if he can not understand english, or if there is some language that he understands better? This belief is shared by charismatics like Hagin that their stuttering and utterances are high forms of communication. Scripture always indicated tongues being used from person to person, not person to God.

In this day and age we can study other languages. Is the bible not translated by men into many other languages; or do we forget all that and just go into other countries expecting to preach the gospel in tongues? Speaking in tongues occurred 3 times when people received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Saying it is a gift of the spirit in this age often leads people down the path of miracles angels and etc., which should be byproducts of the faith, not it's focus. It is possible today that people do speak in tongues, but at the very minimum it is the most extremely rare gift of the spirit, and is only ever given to someone in a very rare situation.

I don't mean my posts to be argumentative as that is not their purpose. The purpose of my post was to comment on False Teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, which seemed to be the thought behind your initial post. The first thing that comes to my mind with pentecostal, and charismatic false teachers like that is speaking in tongues. There is such danger in basing your faith on experiences and feelings it should make a Christian skeptical at least when such a topic arises.

I speak in tongues and what I did, I prayed to God for that gift and He blessed me with it. It didn't happen immediately, but after a while, it did happen. When it first happened I got such a shock, a very pleasant shock I might add. I pray in tongues, on most days, but have no idea what I am saying though, even though I have spoken in Psalms too. I don't use it for public use, its purely private between God and me and it will remain that way, unless God tells me different.

I can control it and sometimes, I switch from speaking in English to speaking in tongues during my prayer time or when speaking to God. On other occassions I can be totally exhausted after praying in tongues as it takes a lot out of me.

My mum also speaks in tongues and I know various other people who do too.
My husband desperately wants to speak in tongues, so I explained all he needed to do, is just keep praying to God and He will bless him with it.

 

[jiggyfly]

Mark 16:9-20 is not even present in the earliest, most reliable manuscripts of scripture. It is highly likely they should not be there, but remain there because there is question. To base any argument off these verses, such as the argument of tongues, or the argument that water baptism is necessary for salvation (both beliefs stem from these verses) is dangerous at the very minimum.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

Anyway, if you speak in tongues let me know. If anyone else you know speaks in tongues let me know. If you have ever met anyone, or if there was ever anyone who was a reputable Christian that was able to speak in a language he did not study and learn let me know, and I will change my position immediately. I don't mean those utterances or random gibberishes that people spew, I mean what the bible means when it says speaking in tongues: speaking in a language they did not know. I bolded that text in your quote because you indicate you believe speaking in tongues is a gift given so we can speak to God? As if he can not understand english, or if there is some language that he understands better? This belief is shared by charismatics like Hagin that their stuttering and utterances are high forms of communication. Scripture always indicated tongues being used from person to person, not person to God.

Speaking in tongues was a special gift for a special time. Even gotquestions.org agrees at least mostly with my belief:

http://www.gotquestions.org/tongues-Holy-Spirit.html

In this day and age we can study other languages. Is the bible not translated by men into many other languages; or do we forget all that and just go into other countries expecting to preach the gospel in tongues? Speaking in tongues occurred 3 times when people received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Saying it is a gift of the spirit in this age often leads people down the path of miracles angels and etc., which should be byproducts of the faith, not it's focus. It is possible today that people do speak in tongues, but at the very minimum it is the most extremely rare gift of the spirit, and is only ever given to someone in a very rare situation.

I don't mean my posts to be argumentative as that is not their purpose. The purpose of my post was to comment on False Teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, which seemed to be the thought behind your initial post. The first thing that comes to my mind with pentecostal, and charismatic false teachers like that is speaking in tongues. There is such danger in basing your faith on experiences and feelings it should make a Christian skeptical at least when such a topic arises.

You are right about people getting misled by spiritual gifts and if your belief is that God doesn't do that any more than than you have no worries of it happening to you. There are principles in God's kingdom for recieving things from Him, we must ask, seek and or knock and it will be given to us. But God is not restrained by your beliefs. There is no evidence in the scriptures that the Spiritual Gifts have ceased already. I do agree that with some denominations there is a lot carnality surrounding these Gifts. But then there is a lot of carnality in every denomination, denomination is a carnal thing.

So if you want to throw out the Gifts of the Holy Spirit because some one was carnally imitating them that is your choice and God won't stop you, but does it stop with the spiritual gifts or does it continue with everytime God does something miraculous that challenges our natural mind. So many today are trying to do the work of the Lord and it so carnal and will amount to nothing in the end.

A good example of this is in 1Cor. 2, where Paul says; *"Dear brothers and sisters,* when I first came to you I didn’t use lofty words and brilliant ideas to tell you God’s message.* For I decided to concentrate only on Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. I came to you in weakness—timid and trembling. *And my message and my preaching were very plain. I did not use wise and persuasive speeches, but the Holy Spirit was powerful among you. *I did this so that you might trust the power of God rather than human wisdom."

 

[BecuzHeLives]

Mark 16:9-20 is not even present in the earliest, most reliable manuscripts of scripture. It is highly likely they should not be there, but remain there because there is question. To base any argument off these verses, such as the argument of tongues, or the argument that water baptism is necessary for salvation (both beliefs stem from these verses) is dangerous at the very minimum.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Mark-16-9-20.html

Anyway, if you speak in tongues let me know. If anyone else you know speaks in tongues let me know. If you have ever met anyone, or if there was ever anyone who was a reputable Christian that was able to speak in a language he did not study and learn let me know, and I will change my position immediately. I don't mean those utterances or random gibberishes that people spew, I mean what the bible means when it says speaking in tongues: speaking in a language they did not know. I bolded that text in your quote because you indicate you believe speaking in tongues is a gift given so we can speak to God? As if he can not understand english, or if there is some language that he understands better? This belief is shared by charismatics like Hagin that their stuttering and utterances are high forms of communication. Scripture always indicated tongues being used from person to person, not person to God.

Speaking in tongues was a special gift for a special time. Even gotquestions.org agrees at least mostly with my belief:

http://www.gotquestions.org/tongues-Holy-Spirit.html

In this day and age we can study other languages. Is the bible not translated by men into many other languages; or do we forget all that and just go into other countries expecting to preach the gospel in tongues? Speaking in tongues occurred 3 times when people received the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Saying it is a gift of the spirit in this age often leads people down the path of miracles angels and etc., which should be byproducts of the faith, not it's focus. It is possible today that people do speak in tongues, but at the very minimum it is the most extremely rare gift of the spirit, and is only ever given to someone in a very rare situation.

I don't mean my posts to be argumentative as that is not their purpose. The purpose of my post was to comment on False Teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, which seemed to be the thought behind your initial post. The first thing that comes to my mind with pentecostal, and charismatic false teachers like that is speaking in tongues. There is such danger in basing your faith on experiences and feelings it should make a Christian skeptical at least when such a topic arises.

Hi Jculver,
My friend I love your enthusiastic. It is good that you're trying to learn. I speak in tounges, yes God do understand us when we speak English or any foreign languages that we understand. However, in my case I can speak English and Vietnamese. But when I sin my ability to pray is limited. I feel ashamed when I lust and give in to the temptation. In addition, when I praying in new tounges, the Holy Spirit is praying for me helping me express my anger and feeling that I may never able to speak if I was to pray in normal languages.

Secondly, praying in tongues is you speaking to God, NOT to man. As we see in Act 2:11: We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. To me personally, if this does come from God it wouldn't draw me close to God. However, when I able to speak in tounges I edify myself. Help draw me close to God. At time I can feel the Holy Spirit is telling me to do something. Such as get my Bible to flip through the Bible and read a verse I would need to use that specifically for that Day and to meditate that verse for that day. Our God is so wonderful that he can do things that we cannot comprehend. But unfortunately there are always those who chose to misunderstood the Bible as Peter tell us from II Peter 3:16: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things had to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scirptures, unto their own destruction.

BTW, all this verse was giving to me last night. I didn't know why but now I understood why all this verse was give to me last night. This is one of the last verse that was giving to me last night. Act 7:51: Ye stiffneced and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost. I think this was giving to me because lately I been questioning him myself. Satan have attack me pretty hard lately, but because HE lives I can face tomorrow. God Bless Brothers and Sisters.

The intentions of my post is to help people stay away from false teaching and those who imitate the teaching of the Bible, but twisted the meaning of the Bible. Don't be confuse because of these imitator they can really hurt your brain. Like Peter (the micracle water guy) who tell everyone he have the ability of prophecize and know specific things about a person such as their name and where they live. It is later found out that his Wife using a wireless communicator to give him all the info. In conclusion, their always the fake and the real. We just have to pray so that God can point it out to us, which is fake and which is real. If you think it's fake then pray to God as he will point it out to you.

 

[jculver]

Hello again everyone, and sorry for the link! I should have read the forum guidelines more clearly. I assure you it was relevant to the post I made, but again, it was against the rules and I apologize.

I want to thank you all for your gracious posts, but I still hold to my belief and disagree Here is how I disagree:

1. I don't believe speaking in tongues when mentioned in the bible refers to people speaking to God, I believe it is speaking about people speaking in languages they didn't know, or people hearing them as if it were a language that they knew, when originally they did not know them.

2. I also believe it was for a specific age and time that was unique to about 1900 years ago starting in Acts chapter 2.

However you have all peaked my interest I can't say I have ever known anyone who has openly said they speak in tongues. I honestly hadn't. The fact that you guys say you have is a very new thing for me. In America I don't think I have ever heard it talked about one time, it is something I researched myself after reading Acts.

Jigglyfly, you seem extremely knowledgeable about your particular view of Holy Spirit baptism, and the gifts of the spirit. I was wondering if per chance you would consider a separate forum where you and I could debate the topic so I could learn more about your view, and maybe you could see more of where I was coming from, and then I could form a better idea about the issue. I would continue on this thread, but I think the purpose of this thread was more on false teachers.

If I am wrong, you better believe I would love to be corrected So anyway, at this point I don't agree with you all, but again I thank you for your gracious posts. I am eager to hear and debate the topic further if jiggly would like to I will try to keep a much more open mind to the topic from here forward.

 

[BecuzHeLives]

Hi Jculver,

Jiggyfly actually already post a spiritual gifts in one of his post. Just search it and you'll find it. I hope you change your view about speaking in tounges and spiritual gifts. On your thoughts about Mark 16:17 wasn't accurate. All scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. II Tim 3:16: I believe if God don't want it there then it would not be there. So many gospel that is not in the Bible because God chose to not include them in the Bible. Well I guess it a different topic but I hope you understand what I mean.

God bless you all as always. Please continue your question if you would like to know more about speaking in tounges because it is relevant to this post.

 

[jculver]

Hi Jculver,

Jiggyfly actually already post a spiritual gifts in one of his post. Just search it and you'll find it. I hope you change your view about speaking in tounges and spiritual gifts. On your thoughts about Mark 16:17 wasn't accurate. All scriptures is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. II Tim 3:16: I believe if God don't want it there then it would not be there. So many gospel that is not in the Bible because God chose to not include them in the Bible. Well I guess it a different topic but I hope you understand what I mean.

God bless you all as always. Please continue your question if you would like to know more about speaking in tounges because it is relevant to this post.

All scripture is indeed God breathed, but Mark 16:9-20 is not scripture . It was added by someone later on. This topic is also debatable, but the change in tone and style, and just the general feel of the text from 8 to 9 makes it apparent to me that Mark was not the author, and someone added it later. Mark 16:9-20 are not in the earliest most reliable manuscripts .

I will search for jigglies post, thanks for the info

EDIT: After finding the post it appears there was much debate in the post. This is definitly a hard doctrine to completely understand. I think it is possible that someone might be able to speak in tongues today, but as far as what that means, and as far as what "the git of tongues" is, and how it is different I am very confused.

I am going to study this topic like crazy as openly as I can. THank you all for your posts.

 

[baruch]

I have a theory on the gift of speaking in what Paul calls "Strange Tongues" see 1Cor 14:26-33. Going back to Acts 2, when the disciples started speaking in toungues, those who heard were amazed to hear and understand what they were saying, others thought they were drunk.
I believe, those who heard and understood had been given the gift of interpretating what was said.

Shem Cha Kadosh, Immanuel.

 

[ChristianIssues]

A short video on speaking in tongues

The following video is very helpful in understanding the gifts of tongues, prophecy and knowledge and why they ceased.

Speaking In Tongues Part A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi6fIUpvZUI

God bless,
Mick