False teaching

[StopPolloition]

2. I also believe it was for a specific age and time that was unique to about 1900 years ago starting in Acts chapter 2.

If I am wrong, you better believe I would love to be corrected So anyway, at this point I don't agree with you all, but again I thank you for your gracious posts. I am eager to hear and debate the topic further if jiggly would like to I will try to keep a much more open mind to the topic from here forward.

The book of Acts didn't end in the first century, we're still in it. It is absolutely laughable that you and other cessationists shuttle all the miraculous workings of the Spirit (as though God is only capable of moving through the means that your finite minds can conceptualize) but have no issue with the human components (faith, word of knowledge, etc.).

Why would the Holy Spirit waste time using Paul to enumerate the workings of the Spirit, spending chapters relaying the orderly expression of tongues only to stop it with the death of the last apostle? Poppycock. And there are as many manuscripts describing the uninterrupted move of the Spirit through the centuries as there are those that don't. Further, many of the manuscripts you're making reference to are rife with apocryphal and unscriptural silliness and Catholic theology.

I'm not sure that you need any more evidence than personal experience. So far two posted have already said that they speak in tongues and you've refuted both of their experiences. In full disclosure, I have the gift of tongues. It isn't something I learned; it isn't a spastic eruption ( I can control it); I use it in my prayer and worship, both private and public. My congregation is mainline, non-denominational and most if not all, Spirit filled members speak as well. I can't expound on anyone else so I'll stick with my own experience.

A woman in our church was in church one Sunday (I was in attendance and saw these things with my own eyes) and slumped over. Our pastor ordered the congregation to pray and continue in the Spirit. The woman was taken out and a physician in our congregation confirmed that the woman was dead. We continued in prayer and praise and after maybe half an hour (with no pulse, btw), the woman was returned, alive, to the sanctuary.

I know people who've been healed of late stage cancer, inoperable tumors even a member healed of h.i.v. God healed my own wife of several fibroids during her pregnancy; one that was high risk concluded with no complications and our beautiful daughter. We're not quacks, charismatics or charlatans. We simply believe that there is nothing made that God cannot unmake. And we are not alone; there are 600 million tongue talkers worldwide. You think all of them are deluded?

We had a missionary visit and tell us that in parts of China, the persecution of Christians is so severe that they cannot trust anyone to not betray them; wives turn in husbands, children turn in their parents (like our Lord said would happen) so at particular times the Spirit will move and tell saints to go to a specific location and thousands will show up at some underground location and have worship.

It is so convenient to sit in our insular positions where the greatest suffering that we have to deal with is what pants to wear on a particular day and say that God isn't doing x,y,z. Throughout the world where people have NOTHING and aren't looking to name or claim anything, the gifts of the Spirit are actualized simply to keep these believers alive. Is deceptive faith teaching prevalent throughout the earth? To be sure. But deception hasn't stopped the growth in the body of Christ any more than time has stopped the gifts of the Spirit.

To say God doesn't perform physical miracles is blasphemy. To say that his Spirit isn't still moving the way it did on the day of Pentecost is ignorant. People who say such things have about as much credibility and sense as atheists. I love you, friend, but I pray that God opens your eyes, not to my views but to the dynamism of his Spirit at work in his body.

 

[ChristianIssues]

And we are not alone; there are 600 million tongue talkers worldwide. You think all of them are deluded?

Can 600 million people be deluded? Well 1.3 billion Catholics are, the same number of Muslims are, countless millions of Buddhists and Hindus are ... why not the tongues speakers?

I look at tongues very closely and can't see how it is still a gift. Can you watch the video called Speaking In Tongues Part A on my YouTube account - user name christianissues

If you can scripturally refute the first two minutes of this video then you will make me rethink things.


God bless,
Mick

 

[rojoloco]

Acts 10:44-46
44*Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message. 45*The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles, too. 46*And there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Acts 19:1-7
1*While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers.* 2*“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we don’t know what you mean. We haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3*“Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4*Paul said, “John’s baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later.”
5*As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6*Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7*There were about twelve men in all.

And it is still happening today to every born-again believer who desires the baptism of the Holy Ghost and His spiritual gifts.

The part you bolded in Acts 10 clearly tells us the purpose of them speaking in tongues. It was to show God's chosen people (the Jews) that the Gentiles were being grafted in. This was accomplished through the use of tongues as prophesied in the Old Testament as being a sign of judgment on Israel.

In Acts 19, you bolded the part as if it were a teaching of subsequent baptism of the Spirit. First of all, that is not what this passage is saying. However, for the sake of argument, we will cover subsequent baptism as stated earlier in Acts at Pentecost. This was a 1 time occurrence never again to be repeated. Subsequent baptism of the Spirit is not supported anywhere else in Scripture and actually goes against the teaching of Scripture as a whole. One cannot understand the things of the Spirit because they are Spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14). It isn't until we become the temple of the Spirit (1 Cor 6:19) that we have the ability to understand these things. Therefore, the Spirit must make us a new creature in Christ (2 Cor 5:17) before anything can occur. Because of this, we can rest assured the Spirit is with the believer at the very moment of regeneration because it is the Spirit causing the very act to begin with. There is no subsequent baptism as if the Christian is left without, unfilled, and incomplete.

Now, regarding the passage in Acts 19, it is not referring to subsequent baptism at all. In fact, it isn't even referring to Christians. These men that Paul came across were men who had a desire to know the one who John taught of but they had never heard the full gospel of the death and resurrection of Christ. Their ignorance of the gospel is affirmed by their lack of knowledge that the Spirit even existed (verse 2). Verse 3 confirms this by their admission that they were baptized into John's baptism. They clearly knew little else. Paul saw this as a ripe opportunity and took advantage of it. He took John's teaching and then continued with the full gospel. Upon this revelation, they truly believed in Christ and were baptized in Him. Notice that at the very moment of their salvation, they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. This was because the Spirit now resided in them for the first time. This was because they had salvation in Christ for the first time. Salvation and the Spirit occurred at the very same time. There was no subsequent baptism at some later date. There was no period of time where the men were "less than filled" Christians who only needed to seek out some gift or filling of the Spirit. They went from being fully empty to just plain full.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread and move away from the OP's intent. I just felt the need to comment on this since it was brought up.

 

[rojoloco]

I speak in tongues and what I did, I prayed to God for that gift and He blessed me with it.

The first mistake is thinking that God gives the gifts as we desire and not the other way around (1 Cor 12:11).

It didn't happen immediately, but after a while, it did happen. When it first happened I got such a shock, a very pleasant shock I might add.

This sounds a lot like the typical "zap" of the Spirit that most Charismatics claim. Not to offend but it is a laughable concept that has no Biblical basis and rides solely on emotion.

I pray in tongues, on most days, but have no idea what I am saying though,

And Paul tells us that this is unfruitful (1 Cor 14:14). Being that we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Rom 12:2), speaking a "tongue" that we do not understand is pointless and we should stick with that which we do understand so that we may be edified (1 Cor 14:19).

I don't use it for public use, its purely private between God and me and it will remain that way, unless God tells me different.

He does tell you different in 1 Corinthians 14:22. It is not meant for you.

I can control it and sometimes, I switch from speaking in English to speaking in tongues during my prayer time or when speaking to God. On other occassions I can be totally exhausted after praying in tongues as it takes a lot out of me.

What is it exactly that "takes a lot out of you?" The Spirit is always with us (1 Cor 6:19) and it is not tiring at all. In fact, when the Spirit moves within, it is invigorating, exciting, and rejuvenating. If you are in control of it at all times, I already shared why you will get more out of it by speaking in something you actually understand. In fact, how can you give the Amen if you don't even know what you prayed (1 Cor 14:16)?

My mum also speaks in tongues and I know various other people who do too.
My husband desperately wants to speak in tongues, so I explained all he needed to do, is just keep praying to God and He will bless him with it.

This is actually quite selfish. I say a better prayer is that he will be in God's Will and that God will equip him with whatever tool is needed to accomplish the tasking. Paul rebukes the Corinthians for seeking selfish gifts by telling them if they are going to seek anything, at least seek something that will edify the Church.

 

[jiggyfly]

The first mistake is thinking that God gives the gifts as we desire and not the other way around (1 Cor 12:11).



This sounds a lot like the typical "zap" of the Spirit that most Charismatics claim. Not to offend but it is a laughable concept that has no Biblical basis and rides solely on emotion.



And Paul tells us that this is unfruitful (1 Cor 14:14). Being that we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Rom 12:2), speaking a "tongue" that we do not understand is pointless and we should stick with that which we do understand so that we may be edified (1 Cor 14:19).


He does tell you different in 1 Corinthians 14:22. It is not meant for you.



What is it exactly that "takes a lot out of you?" The Spirit is always with us (1 Cor 6:19) and it is not tiring at all. In fact, when the Spirit moves within, it is invigorating, exciting, and rejuvenating. If you are in control of it at all times, I already shared why you will get more out of it by speaking in something you actually understand. In fact, how can you give the Amen if you don't even know what you prayed (1 Cor 14:16)?



This is actually quite selfish. I say a better prayer is that he will be in God's Will and that God will equip him with whatever tool is needed to accomplish the tasking. Paul rebukes the Corinthians for seeking selfish gifts by telling them if they are going to seek anything, at least seek something that will edify the Church.

Thanks for making a clear and organized post of your opinion Rojo. You may want to edit it after you read the first verse in the chapter of 1 Cor. that you quoted from.:wink:

1Cr 14:1 Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy

 

[Boanerges]

1. Quote directly from Jesus Christ:
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mar 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
2. Forbid not:
1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
1Co 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
3: He will speak to His people:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isa 28:12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
4, without repentance:
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Like Joesph's coat of many colors the body of Christ is composed of many parts finely woven to make a beautiful and useful whole. The nine gifts of the Spirit, the nine fruits of the Spirit are gifts to the church. Ignoring them or even worse, fearing them is grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit. That does not however keep one from being a Christian. There are many different "levels" in which one can walk depending on depending on revelation received, faith, understanding of the Word, maturity, etc. These levels can vary widely and pertain to (among other things) knowledge of the Word, walking in the Spirit, moving in the gifts and bearing fruit. Having one or the other does not make anyone more or less saved but that does not negate the need for these gifts. God does not give gifts without reason. Taking all the scriptures given on limitations and applications of their use does not change the fact that God gave them for a specific function and purpose in the body.


1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

 

[jiggyfly]

The part you bolded in Acts 10 clearly tells us the purpose of them speaking in tongues. It was to show God's chosen people (the Jews) that the Gentiles were being grafted in. This was accomplished through the use of tongues as prophesied in the Old Testament as being a sign of judgment on Israel.

In Acts 19, you bolded the part as if it were a teaching of subsequent baptism of the Spirit. First of all, that is not what this passage is saying. However, for the sake of argument, we will cover subsequent baptism as stated earlier in Acts at Pentecost. This was a 1 time occurrence never again to be repeated. Subsequent baptism of the Spirit is not supported anywhere else in Scripture and actually goes against the teaching of Scripture as a whole. One cannot understand the things of the Spirit because they are Spiritually discerned (1 Cor 2:14). It isn't until we become the temple of the Spirit (1 Cor 6:19) that we have the ability to understand these things. Therefore, the Spirit must make us a new creature in Christ (2 Cor 5:17) before anything can occur. Because of this, we can rest assured the Spirit is with the believer at the very moment of regeneration because it is the Spirit causing the very act to begin with. There is no subsequent baptism as if the Christian is left without, unfilled, and incomplete.

Now, regarding the passage in Acts 19, it is not referring to subsequent baptism at all. In fact, it isn't even referring to Christians. These men that Paul came across were men who had a desire to know the one who John taught of but they had never heard the full gospel of the death and resurrection of Christ. Their ignorance of the gospel is affirmed by their lack of knowledge that the Spirit even existed (verse 2). Verse 3 confirms this by their admission that they were baptized into John's baptism. They clearly knew little else. Paul saw this as a ripe opportunity and took advantage of it. He took John's teaching and then continued with the full gospel. Upon this revelation, they truly believed in Christ and were baptized in Him. Notice that at the very moment of their salvation, they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. This was because the Spirit now resided in them for the first time. This was because they had salvation in Christ for the first time. Salvation and the Spirit occurred at the very same time. There was no subsequent baptism at some later date. There was no period of time where the men were "less than filled" Christians who only needed to seek out some gift or filling of the Spirit. They went from being fully empty to just plain full.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread and move away from the OP's intent. I just felt the need to comment on this since it was brought up.

What do you see as the purpose and work of HolySpirit within the body of Christ today Rojo?

 

[rojoloco]

Thanks for making a clear and organized post of your opinion Rojo. You may want to edit it after you read the first verse in the chapter of 1 Cor. that you quoted from.:wink:

1Cr 14:1 Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy

We have to look at it in the proper context. There is no denying that the Corinthians were being selfish. They were not content with the gifts they had but desired the flashy gifts in order to show off to others. Paul rebuked them for this selfishness. In chapter 12, he goes into a breakdown of the gifts. In chapter 13, he speaks of the importance of love. It is in love that we are able to accomplish great things and without it, we can accomplish nothing. While it seems complete here, it is far from it. He rebuked them for their selfish desires and also showed them a much greater way (love) but now he shifts his focus back to the gifts. He tells them that while love is the way, we are not to forsake the gifts. The gifts are the very evidence of the Spirit being in the Christian's life. We should be grateful for them. However, they should not be our primary focus or longing such as was the case with the Corinthians. It almost appears that Paul is advocating seeking out certain gifts when he tells them to desire prophecy but that goes against the entire message that he just put out to them. No, he is not telling them to desire prophecy and seek out to be gifted with it. He is telling them of the importance of edification. Edification is the result of love and it is aided by the gifts. Because they were so bent on seeking out gifts, he is telling them to at least seek a gift that will edify the Church. In other words, don't seek the gift. Seek to edify.

 

[rojoloco]

What do you see as the purpose and work of HolySpirit within the body of Christ today Rojo?

I see the purpose and work as being the same as it was in the early Church. While some of the methods may have changed, the purpose remains the same such as regeneration (2 Cor 5:17), praying on our behalf (Rom 8:26), helping us in our weakness (John 14:16), etc. While I fully believe the Spirit empowers us with gifts (1 Cor 12) in this day and age, I also believe some of those gifts were of temporary use. Some ask how I can claim God is incapable of doing now what He did back then. This is not the case at all. I believe He gave certain gifts back then for a temporary purpose and has since stopped giving those particular ones and has shifted the focus to other areas and giftings such as the ones emphasized in Ephesians. He is sovereign in all areas and that includes His purpose in gift giving for the purpose of edifying the body of Christ.

 

[jiggyfly]

We have to look at it in the proper context. There is no denying that the Corinthians were being selfish. They were not content with the gifts they had but desired the flashy gifts in order to show off to others. Paul rebuked them for this selfishness. In chapter 12, he goes into a breakdown of the gifts. In chapter 13, he speaks of the importance of love. It is in love that we are able to accomplish great things and without it, we can accomplish nothing. While it seems complete here, it is far from it. He rebuked them for their selfish desires and also showed them a much greater way (love) but now he shifts his focus back to the gifts. He tells them that while love is the way, we are not to forsake the gifts. The gifts are the very evidence of the Spirit being in the Christian's life. We should be grateful for them. However, they should not be our primary focus or longing such as was the case with the Corinthians. It almost appears that Paul is advocating seeking out certain gifts when he tells them to desire prophecy but that goes against the entire message that he just put out to them. No, he is not telling them to desire prophecy and seek out to be gifted with it. He is telling them of the importance of edification. Edification is the result of love and it is aided by the gifts. Because they were so bent on seeking out gifts, he is telling them to at least seek a gift that will edify the Church. In other words, don't seek the gift. Seek to edify.

Sorry but that is not what Paul said or why he said what he did in 1Cor. 14:1. Context is very important but speculating is useless unless your trying to defend an errant teaching or doctrine.
Paul also states in verse 4 of this same chapter that the gift of speaking in tongues does edify, he said it edifies you personally. I speak in tongues during the course of the day, every day for at least half an hour or more because it builds me up in the Lord. Now you can say it is wrong, you can say it isn't biblical or that it isn't the "real" gift of speaking in tongues, but that is just your opinion and unless you have ever experienced the gift of speaking in tongues yourself than your opinion is unfounded, unreliable and incredible. :wink:

 

[jiggyfly]

I see the purpose and work as being the same as it was in the early Church. While some of the methods may have changed, the purpose remains the same such as regeneration (2 Cor 5:17), praying on our behalf (Rom 8:26), helping us in our weakness (John 14:16), etc. While I fully believe the Spirit empowers us with gifts (1 Cor 12) in this day and age, I also believe some of those gifts were of temporary use. Some ask how I can claim God is incapable of doing now what He did back then. This is not the case at all. I believe He gave certain gifts back then for a temporary purpose and has since stopped giving those particular ones and has shifted the focus to other areas and giftings such as the ones emphasized in Ephesians. He is sovereign in all areas and that includes His purpose in gift giving for the purpose of edifying the body of Christ.

So then don't you think it is somewhat arrogant on your part to say that God no longer gives certain gifts to us if He is sovereign?
What do you base this on?

 

[rojoloco]

So then don't you think it is somewhat arrogant on your part to say that God no longer gives certain gifts to us if He is sovereign?
What do you base this on?

No more arrogant than it is for you to say that God MUST give all the same gifts that He gave in the early Church. I believe God to be sovereign in all areas. I'm sure we can agree on this. Where we differ is our opinion on what it is He still gifts the Church with. Neither opinion is arrogant. It is simply what we believe to be the case. My belief in this matter is based on a contextual view of Scripture, historical writings of early Church fathers, as well as a study of the Greek writing of the original text.

 

[rojoloco]

Sorry but that is not what Paul said or why he said what he did in 1Cor. 14:1. Context is very important but speculating is useless unless your trying to defend an errant teaching or doctrine.
Paul also states in verse 4 of this same chapter that the gift of speaking in tongues does edify, he said it edifies you personally. I speak in tongues during the course of the day, every day for at least half an hour or more because it builds me up in the Lord. Now you can say it is wrong, you can say it isn't biblical or that it isn't the "real" gift of speaking in tongues, but that is just your opinion and unless you have ever experienced the gift of speaking in tongues yourself than your opinion is unfounded, unreliable and incredible. :wink:

Except for the fact that Paul is not advocating tongues in verse 4. Tongues cannot edify oneself while also not being for oneself at the same time. It also cannot be fruitful in a lack of understanding while also being unfruitful. These are contradictions that must be clarified by context. The entire theme of Paul's message in these chapters is a rebuke against selfish desires. The Corinthians desired the "greater gifts" so that they could show them off. Paul tells of the importance of love and the importance of edification. One should aim to edify the Church. Paul's point in verse 4 is not that speaking tongues to oneself actually edifies (as he makes clear in the aforementioned verses) but rather, that it only puffs oneself up and serves no real purpose when used in that manner. It is for selfish gain which is no real gain at all.

As for your support of experience as being a valid proof, what do you say to Joseph Smith and his experience? Do you say Mormonism is correct because he said he experienced something? What of those who are high on drugs? Are their experiences valid as well? You say I have no credibility because I have not experienced it. Well, I say experience has no credibility in this area. I can train all day long in an area at work and claim to know what I am doing only for a Subject Matter Expert (SME) to come in and show me how I was doing it all wrong the whole time. Experience does not validate truth.

 

[jiggyfly]

Except for the fact that Paul is not advocating tongues in verse 4. Tongues cannot edify oneself while also not being for oneself at the same time. It also cannot be fruitful in a lack of understanding while also being unfruitful. These are contradictions that must be clarified by context. The entire theme of Paul's message in these chapters is a rebuke against selfish desires. The Corinthians desired the "greater gifts" so that they could show them off. Paul tells of the importance of love and the importance of edification. One should aim to edify the Church. Paul's point in verse 4 is not that speaking tongues to oneself actually edifies (as he makes clear in the aforementioned verses) but rather, that it only puffs oneself up and serves no real purpose when used in that manner. It is for selfish gain which is no real gain at all.

As for your support of experience as being a valid proof, what do you say to Joseph Smith and his experience? Do you say Mormonism is correct because he said he experienced something? What of those who are high on drugs? Are their experiences valid as well? You say I have no credibility because I have not experienced it. Well, I say experience has no credibility in this area. I can train all day long in an area at work and claim to know what I am doing only for a Subject Matter Expert (SME) to come in and show me how I was doing it all wrong the whole time. Experience does not validate truth.

You are misunderstanding Paul's words here to the Corinthians.

Paul said knowledge is what puffs up not tongues, your religious mindset I understand but your interpretation of the scriptures is simply ludicrous.:laugh:

 

[rojoloco]

You are misunderstanding Paul's words here to the Corinthians.

Paul said knowledge is what puffs up not tongues, your religious mindset I understand but your interpretation of the scriptures is simply ludicrous.:laugh:

Knowledge makes arrogant while love edifies. Does this mean nothing else makes arrogant and nothing else edifies? We know prophecy edified so we are forced to admit there can be other things that made arrogant. The selfish gift seeking of the Corinthians was one of those things. There was nothing commendable about it. The vast majority of the topic of tongues is in the setting of a rebuke and not a commendation.

 

[jiggyfly]

Knowledge makes arrogant while love edifies. Does this mean nothing else makes arrogant and nothing else edifies? We know prophecy edified so we are forced to admit there can be other things that made arrogant. The selfish gift seeking of the Corinthians was one of those things. There was nothing commendable about it. The vast majority of the topic of tongues is in the setting of a rebuke and not a commendation.

Ahhh I see you think tongues are/were bad. You think that the spiritual gift of tongues made people arrogant. Do you got any scripture that clearly supports your opinion?

Paul did not say that seeking the spiritual gifts was selfish, actually he encouraged it but then you cant see it even though it is right there in black and white.

Let's look again at some of what Paul says in this chapter about the gift of speaking in tongues.

1Cr 14:1 Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy.

1Cr 14:2 For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues, [fn] you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won't be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

1Cr 14:4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

1Cr 14:5 I wish you all had the gift of speaking in tongues, but even more I wish you were all able to prophesy. For prophecy is a greater and more useful gift than speaking in tongues, unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church can get some good out of it.

1Cr 14:13 So anyone who has the gift of speaking in tongues should pray also for the gift of interpretation in order to tell people plainly what has been said.

1Cr 14:15 Well then, what shall I do? I will do both. I will pray in the spirit, [fn] and I will pray in words I understand. I will sing in the spirit, and I will sing in words I understand.


1Cr 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

1Cr 14:26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let's summarize what I am saying. When you meet, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in an unknown language, while another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must be useful to all and build them up in the Lord.

1Cr 14:39 So, dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don't forbid speaking in tongues.

Now several times you have been asked to post scripture that supports your opinion that the spiritual gifts of prophecy and tongues have stopped and no longer operate by HolySpirit's power. So post the scriptures or refrain from posting your opinion concerning this topic.

 

[cilla]

I understand what this msg is saying. I myself was listening to many teachings by coopeland, creflo dollar, and theyre great , however, I was very focused on calling those things out as they are not as they are, I learned a hard lesson, I deceived myself for awhile with a young man that fit everything i was believing for in a husband. Only it was not peaceful and unstable. I felt like a failure like i just didnot have enough faith. I questioned if God was on my side, than why did this happen? now, i donot listen to such teachings, but keep my focus on God and our relationshp, keep it simple and trust him.

I hate to say it but Ive lost alot of my visions, hopes and I am praying God will give me a new vision.

 

[jiggyfly]

I understand what this msg is saying. I myself was listening to many teachings by coopeland, creflo dollar, and theyre great , however, I was very focused on calling those things out as they are not as they are, I learned a hard lesson, I deceived myself for awhile with a young man that fit everything i was believing for in a husband. Only it was not peaceful and unstable. I felt like a failure like i just didnot have enough faith. I questioned if God was on my side, than why did this happen? now, i donot listen to such teachings, but keep my focus on God and our relationshp, keep it simple and trust him.

I hate to say it but Ive lost alot of my visions, hopes and I am praying God will give me a new vision.

Cilla, I too, was caught up in that carnal, selfish teaching but God delivered me out of it in much the same way through disillusionment.

now, i donot listen to such teachings, but keep my focus on God and our relationshp, keep it simple and trust him.

I would say that you already have new vision and hope, just keep trusting in Him.:wink:

 

[Boanerges]

I understand what this msg is saying. I myself was listening to many teachings by coopeland, creflo dollar, and theyre great , however, I was very focused on calling those things out as they are not as they are, I learned a hard lesson, I deceived myself for awhile with a young man that fit everything i was believing for in a husband. Only it was not peaceful and unstable. I felt like a failure like i just didnot have enough faith. I questioned if God was on my side, than why did this happen? now, i donot listen to such teachings, but keep my focus on God and our relationshp, keep it simple and trust him.

I hate to say it but Ive lost alot of my visions, hopes and I am praying God will give me a new vision.

Just some thoughts:
My friend Jiggyfly is 100% correct- do not lay aside the principles of God. Simply learn to use them as you follow the moving of His Spirit. Jesus taught about laying up treasure but it was always in heaven and a fit offering to lay at His feet. God values things differently than a carnal mind and He gave us this instruction:
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Original sin was caused by a desire to "be wise in our own eyes" and that was the day man stopped being led of God choosing his own path. Can you imagine what a mess this world would be if we had everything we simply called into being? Like the Hebrews of old we must move with the Cloud by day and the Fire by night. It is when we walk hand in hand with our God , seek to do His perfect will that we see the fruition of those wonderful signs and wonders.

 

[Lightseeker]

Thanks for that - it kind of ties in with an issue that I struggle with. Here in Australia, the Pastors of a particular Denomination have become millionaires through their Church Ministry. I have noticed that there seems to be this 'Gospel of Prosperity' creeping in whereby they are teaching that by following the Word and the Way, God will bestow abundance upon your life. I would take this to mean spiritual abundance, but apparently it has been preached as 'material abundance'. Surely God doesn't consider this to be the foremost objective in our lives? Should people become fabulously wealthy via the peddling of God's Word? I know that they should be enabled to make a relatively decent living, but millions? What do others think?