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Don't you need to be babtized by Holy Spirit and water in order to get into Heaven?

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In the Bible it says:
(John 3:3-8)
3 Jesus replied to Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
4 Nicodemus asked him, "How can anyone be born when he's an old man? He can't go back inside his mother a second time to be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh and blood give birth to flesh and blood, but the Spirit gives birth to things that are spiritual.
7 Don't be surprised when I tell you that all of you must be born from above.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you don't know where the wind comes from or where it's going. That's the way it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

How come some people just say that you only need to accept Christ as your Savior if in the Bible it says you need to be born by water and spirit? I don't get that?
 
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It depends on the person and the circumstance. This is a very debatable topic. The reason why baptism comes with salvation is because it's part of the cleansing of sins. It's really Jesus who is salvation though and baptism is a recommended act of obedience.

"But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don't you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.” - Luke 23:40-43

^^^ Here, we have a criminal that was on the cross beside Jesus. He was dying and was already nailed to the cross. Therefore, how could he be baptized? He confessed to the Lord with his heart and humbled himself. Jesus didn't deny him or condemn him. The criminal was assured to be in paradise, not Hell.

"They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved–you and your household.” - Acts 16:31

"That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." - Romans 10:9

Here, we see that turning to God is much more greater and practical. Whoever confesses that Jesus is Lord in their heart and believe it...will be saved. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that you MUST be baptized in order to be saved.

The bottomline is...in my opinion, you should be baptized because it's a part of obeying Jesus. It's not salvation though, Jesus is salvation and nothing more. Spiritual growth comes from your personal relationship with God and fellowship with other Christians.

Just like preaching, it's to be done as part of obeying Christ. Of course you'd want to do it because what Christian wouldn't want to preach the good news to those who haven't heard it? It's the same thing with baptism. However, just because some Christian hasn't preached...does that condemn them? No.
 
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Everglaze said:
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The bottomline is...in my opinion, you should be baptized because it's a part of obeying Jesus. It's not salvation though, Jesus is salvation and nothing more. Spiritual growth comes from your personal relationship with God and fellowship with other Christians.
I agree, likewise Jesus also commanded," Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you what he promised. Remember, I have told you about this before. John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit." Acts 1:4&5
 
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How should we Baptize----


Acts 8:35-38 -
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.



Only in "the NAME"--------?

Mt 28:19 -
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Col 3:17 -
And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the NAME of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

Acts 4:10-12 -
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the NAME of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other NAME under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

How they did it------

Acts 2:38 -
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:12 -
But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 8:16 -
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:5 -
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 -
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were WASHED, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the NAME of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Part of being born again-----?

John 3:5 -
3 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Romans 6:1-11
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col 2:11-12 –
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins F7 of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

To Him who has an Ear, Let him HEAR and do....
 
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I was thinking.....

you know, I was just thinking about the Theif on the cross not being baptised... Then I realized that the theif was baptised!

The theif was baptised! He just did it the HARD WAY! The thief literally Repented, Died with Christ, and was buried with Christ, and put on incorruption as did Jesus, when he entered heaven!

My proof is in the scripture below....
Stuff that makes you go "Hmmmmm"

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Romans 6:1-11
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col 2:11-12 –
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
 
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John 3:5

The Gospel of John 3:5 is about birth not baptism. If you will study it out in the original greek text, you will find that the greek word gennao was used here and it has no reference in any way to baptism. Where you see the word baptized in some of the other text you will find the greek word baptizo. Gennao means to be born or concieved and baptizo means to whelm or to cover completely.
If you read some of the different occurences in acts you will see that baptism follows after being born again.
Acts 8:12-17
12 But now the people believed Philip’s message of Good News concerning the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ. As a result, many men and women were baptized. 13*Then Simon himself believed and was baptized. He began following Philip wherever he went, and he was amazed by the great miracles and signs Philip performed.
14*When the apostles back in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted God’s message, they sent Peter and John there. 15*As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new Christians to receive the Holy Spirit. 16*The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17*Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit.
Acts 10:44-48
44*Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who had heard the message. 45*The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles, too. 46*And there could be no doubt about it, for they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter asked, 47*“Can anyone object to their being baptized, now that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did?” 48*So he gave orders for them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Afterward Cornelius asked him to stay with them for several days.
Acts19:1-7
1*While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior provinces. Finally, he came to Ephesus, where he found several believers.* 2*“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” he asked them.
“No,” they replied, “we don’t know what you mean. We haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3*“Then what baptism did you experience?” he asked.
And they replied, “The baptism of John.”
4*Paul said, “John’s baptism was to demonstrate a desire to turn from sin and turn to God. John himself told the people to believe in Jesus, the one John said would come later.”
5*As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6*Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in other tongues and prophesied. 7*There were about twelve men in all.

So as you can see they were believers and born again before they were baptized. You can also see that some were baptized in the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized in the name of Jesus.
 
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Princess487 said:
In the Bible it says:
3 Jesus replied to Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
4 Nicodemus asked him, "How can anyone be born when he's an old man? He can't go back inside his mother a second time to be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh and blood give birth to flesh and blood, but the Spirit gives birth to things that are spiritual.
7 Don't be surprised when I tell you that all of you must be born from above.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you don't know where the wind comes from or where it's going. That's the way it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
(John 3:3-9)

How come some people just say that you only need to accept Christ as your Savior if in the Bible it says you need to be born by water and spirit? I don't get that?
I dont believe they actually meant baptism. Im kinda thinking that was a way of saying you need to be saved.. which mean you were born again but from your Father Above.
 
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Everglaze and jigfly have summed it up nicely. Baptism by water is a good to do thing, not a must do thing. In John 3:3-8. Jesus is speaking of physical birth when he says "born of water"...he even clairifies that in verse 6.
 
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Thanks you guys. What about the fact when people come to Christ on their death bed, will they be judged for not comming earlier or what? it's so confusing. but yea, thanks for your answers they helped.
 
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The exception of the Death bed....

Princess487 said:
Thanks you guys. What about the fact when people come to Christ on their death bed, will they be judged for not comming earlier or what? it's so confusing. but yea, thanks for your answers they helped.
All of our works will be judged, the bad ones will be burned away and the good ones will be rewarded...

I imagine, if Jesus, in fact, honors death bed conversions, that everything in that persons life would be swept clean by His Blood... I imagine they would make it, but they would be judged with zero good works to reward... sort of like a baby who dies of SIDS...

"I surrender the last five seconds of my life to your will" is not as good as "I surrender the last 50 years of my life to your will!"
Yet, saved is saved... :thumbs_up

But Jesus is compassionate...I can't image the Lord turning that soul away...However He is Sovereign too... If there are exceptions to make in the salvation of souls, I leave that ONLY to God. As for my means of converting the lost, I will fallow John 3:16 and Acts 2:38 as the apostils did and not risk the immortal souls of my friends to the, possibly empty, HOPE of divine exceptions... I am Glad the fate of the death bed converted is up to Jesus for judgment and not my judgement or mankinds...

I am even MORE glad that I made my decision to fallow Jesus way before my death bed experience...

A less then fruitful brother once asked me if it was "mandatory for a man to be baptized or would he be in danger of hellfire?

I told Him, baptism was crucial and very important to the Apostils so it is important and crucial to me too. Thus, if I lead a man thru repentance at the alter and he stood up just to be instantly killed by a stray bullet, I would say his eternal fate is looking pretty awesome! But if that doesn't happen, I am still walking with him to the baptistery to get him baptized even as he dries his eyes of the tears of repentance. Baptism was that crucial to Apostils in the book of Acts so it is to me as well... Biblical Apostolic conversion as seen in Acts is too important to rely in the hope of divine exceptions.

So don't wait until your death bed!!!
Turn to Jesus Now, while you are young!

Believe on Jesus as the Messiah, call on His name, repent, be baptized in Jesus' name, and receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, be saved and walk in His Grace and Love. This is how the apostils did it, and so we should try to do the same...

See what I mean?

Some scripture:

Acts 10:44-48
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
 
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Our answer to this lies in what Jesus said to John the Baptist when John did not want to baptise Jesus "...allow it to be so that all righteousness be fullfilled..." the order it occurs in is not set in stone but if in truth you seek as Jesus did "all righteousness" you must be baptised in water.

Of course you could also do as the thief on the cross did and "share in Jesus' death"
but as for me i'll take a dip under the water.
 
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To be born again you do not need to be baptized, sprinkled,or dunked in water. The fact is if you are not born again when you get baptized, it doesn't make you born again. It is ONLY an outward sign of what Jesus' blood has done on the inside. After we become born again there are a lot of things we need to do to be obedient to Christ and baptism in water is one of them.
 
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I was baptized as a baby...that doesn't mean or count as anything lol.

I was baptized in grade 8 but I wasn't living my life for God so that also didn't count...

Now, I AM Born Again and living for the Lord...how many more times must I be baptized?
 
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Everglaze said:
I was baptized as a baby...that doesn't mean or count as anything lol.

I was baptized in grade 8 but I wasn't living my life for God so that also didn't count...

Now, I AM Born Again and living for the Lord...how many more times must I be baptized?
You should be Baptized in Jesus' name after you have trully genuinly repented....
otherwise baptism is just a free bath...
 
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OK guys thanks, I think I got it now. So basically it comes down to being born again, this time through Jesus and his dying for us. So when people are on their death bed, they reached it the hard way right, like the theif on the cross. Ok, now things make a lot more sense, thanks guys, you are a big help. God bless you all and keep it up :grin:
 
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Here is where it gets sticky...

You must be born of the water and the Spirit....

We covered the water.....

now lets talk about the second part....

What is being born of the Spirit?
For, it appears you can believe and not yet be born of the Spirit...

I submit to you Acts 19:1-6 as a great example....

Acts 19:1-6
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water)6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. (Spirit)

What do you think?
 
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Everglaze said:
I was baptized as a baby...that doesn't mean or count as anything lol.

I was baptized in grade 8 but I wasn't living my life for God so that also didn't count...

Now, I AM Born Again and living for the Lord...how many more times must I be baptized?
You only need to be baptised with water one time but that time you must be at an age of "accountability" if you are not capable of making an informed choice of "righteousness" then it is of no affect. After all you can't be baptised into Jesus' death and resurrection if you dont know what that is all about.
 
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not sticky at all

NewMan said:
You must be born of the water and the Spirit....

We covered the water.....

now lets talk about the second part....

What is being born of the Spirit?
For, it appears you can believe and not yet be born of the Spirit...

I submit to you Acts 19:1-6 as a great example....

Acts 19:1-6
1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said to them, "Into what then were you baptized?" So they said, "Into John's baptism." 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water)6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. (Spirit)

What do you think?

Not sticky at all if you read that quote slowly you will see they were water baptised to repentance (John's baptisim) then into belief in Jesus' birth,death,and ressurection (baptised in the name of the Lord) then they were born again by baptism from above of the Holy Spirit. Once again you have to "know" about being baptised before being so the "key words are"...."When they heard this, they were baptized "
 
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Being born of water is being born of the flesh and being born of the spirit is being born ofGod. John 3:5 is not talking at all about baptism. Baptism and birth are seperate experiences. Water baptism when obeyed has a significance that is strictly symbolic.
 

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