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Can you be both Liberal and Christian?

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:15)

Do you think it's possible to be a true born again Christian with Liberal views and ideologies?

  • Yes

    Votes: 34 45.3%
  • No

    Votes: 41 54.7%

  • Total voters
    75
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Staff Member
My friend, i hold no ill will for Rad or any of our brothers and sisters. And when i say brothers and sisters im refering to all of mankind, not just a few who feel privileged. You see we who have been given much, much is expected from us.
And for Christians to be only consumed with where only they are going, is unChristian. Did the Apostles worry about tomarrow, did they discuss endlessly abour escapting this planet.
my ministry is not for me, but bringing understanding and Gods love to others
Hello Brother Bill,
Either I communicated something incorrectly, or you misunderstood my reply to you. I didn't think you had any ill will for Rad or for anyone else. My reply to was to only explain that I I understood where Rad was coming from and what you had written was really only a part of what has probably set the foundation of his belief. No critique, brother. Far from it :shades:

As far as your above comment about "Christians being consumed with where they are going" I can agree. At least with the "consumed" person. I don't begrudge a person at times contemplating our Eternal future, but we are called for so much more. It's like the old adage about being too Heavenly minded to be any Earthly good. Our Lord has called us to do much, before we are to go Home.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Member

Rad

I'm not judging, I'm just quoting a scripture. But anyone can be forgiven and redeemed if they repent.
Hi Avalon1,..... i was referring to your statement that Liberals can't be Christians because they support Homosexuality and Abortion, seems pretty much like a judgement to me, for myself, while i judge the action, i don't judge the individual making that action, unlike God i can't see into the Soul of anyone, i know nothing of their background , life experiences or genetic inheritance, as such i would never take on Gods role of deciding who is or who is not saved, for if Scripture is to be believed there will be many that believe themselves saved who are in fact judged lost, and many that regard themselves as worthless sinners not worthy of Gods Love , saved, ...... it seems to me that Christ has a way of turning our Values and our perceptions on their head, for as he said, "You are the ones that justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts, Everything that Men value is an Abomination in the sight of God".
 
Member

Rad

Hello Rad,
Would you appreciate it or gain from it as much if I gave it to you or you searched it out for yourself? You don't acquire a practice of doing things by having others do it for you. Just as your growth in the Word is not done just by hearing, but also by studying, seeking and then applying those very things in your life. Unless the sole purpose is to argue points that you've already established as true, which then you would know that unless done as unbiased as possible would leave one on shaky ground.

I thought immediately upon reading the initial thread the same as you have just mentioned. Placing Conservative in place of Liberal. :smile:
There are points that conflict and would have enjoyed discussing them with you, but not from a singular point of view on either of our parts. I'm not nor should you be here to herald the rightness of "Liberalism" or "Conservatism", but rather Christian thought, practice and most especially what His Word says in respect to a topic in question. Then so armed, we'd be able to look to Worldly points of view, be they Social or Political and in prayer know what aligns rightly with God's Will.

Like with the L/C discussion you desire to have. You also can't divide God's Word without looking at the entirety of it. Just separating the Words of Jesus found in the Gospels, and seeing them as taking priority in respect to the rest of the NT or OT for that matter, does not provide you a greater understanding, rather a biased one without the context needed to rightly divide Scripture and then make an informed decision.

That is for the very reason I acknowledge, but don't let either my upbringing, or flawed teachings from my earlier days affect how I come about determining the right/wrong of a topic. Too easy to be biased, by values that appear to resonate with Christianity, but in truth are but poor substitutes for Scripture that has been understood Spiritually.

You must take the entirety of Scripture when making decisions and what is perceived as only being the specific Words of Jesus verses the rest. It's all from Jesus. That is what many don't rightly consider. Just because they were revealed and imparted by the Apostles, which includes Paul. Does not lessen them in authority.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
Hi Nick, i would like to know your view, and i do study and research, i try to understand what it means to be a Christian and apply Christs teachings in my life, which is why when i come across someone who also claims to be a Christian like myself, but who holds vastly different views to my own and whose life is based on wholly different practices i want to understand how that can be, and you're the only one that can tell me that,...... good to know we're in agreement on that Nick, there can't be a Left/right split as a Christian, as you rightly say each issue has to be approached on the basis of Christian teaching, although i hold what most people would regard as a Liberal view on most issues, i'm totally opposed to Abortion, and would love to see it abolished , but with a massive increase in social spending, Education and Reproductive Health education and provision for those Mothers and would be mothers to cope with those children who'd now live rather than be killed,...... but on the issue of Christs teachings, i disagree, i've spent the last few decades studying the Gospels, which i do on a daily basis, trying to understand and apply Christs words to me life, and i'm still learning, it seems to me that all wisdom can be found there and is a complete basis on which to live your Christian life, but why do you say you need to study wider, what do you believe is missing in the Gospels, its not that i use the Gospels vs the rest of the Bible, just that i believe the Gospels gives me all i need to continue my walk with Christ
 
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To interject a thought -- God has given us All His Word not just the Gospels. He gave us All His Word for a Reason. To read and learn from it and follow it.
 
Member

Rad

Rad feels justified in his words. But he is a stident of English media. The same can be said about French and German media. Strongly liberal leaning
Hi bill, its not that i feel justified in my words, more that i believe the truth of them, and the reason i engage in discussion like this is to test that truth, as to being a student of English Media, well , i rarely watch the news, hardly ever read newspapers and rarely listen to the Radio, so i guess my engagement with the English Media is pretty limited, and as for it being Strongly Liberal Leaning, well the majority of Newspapers are pro Conservative, and it seems to me that BBC TV and Radio tends to take a fairly neutral line, and Conservatives have been in power now for the last 9 years, i'm not sure what you read in the US but this isn't. IMO, a Liberal country, or as we would say Socialist.
 
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Staff Member
Hi Nick, i would like to know your view, and i do study and research, i try to understand what it means to be a Christian and apply Christs teachings in my life, which is why when i come across someone who also claims to be a Christian like myself, but who holds vastly different views to my own and whose life is based on wholly different practices i want to understand how that can be, and you're the only one that can tell me that,...... good to know we're in agreement on that Nick, there can't be a Left/right split as a Christian, as you rightly say each issue has to be approached on the basis of Christian teaching, although i hold what most people would regard as a Liberal view on most issues, i'm totally opposed to Abortion, and would love to see it abolished , but with a massive increase in social spending, Education and Reproductive Health education and provision for those Mothers and would be mothers to cope with those children who'd now live rather than be killed,...... but on the issue of Christs teachings, i disagree, i've spent the last few decades studying the Gospels, which i do on a daily basis, trying to understand and apply Christs words to me life, and i'm still learning, it seems to me that all wisdom can be found there and is a complete basis on which to live your Christian life, but why do you say you need to study wider, what do you believe is missing in the Gospels, its not that i use the Gospels vs the rest of the Bible, just that i believe the Gospels gives me all i need to continue my walk with Christ
Hello Rad,
Now we're talking :smile:

First, it's to understand that this really only applies to believers. Now on to the subject of Abortion. The example which you alluded to. You admit to being opposed to it, which to me is not the same as seeing it as being wrong and not something supported by in Scripture. My belief that when one adds conditions to this subject, as in increased funding, education etc. I see it as allowing for instances where it is okay to Abort, if certain conditions are not met. The conditions of course would change depending on who you talk to, but regardless, they all point to exceptions. For this to be so, I'd have to find Scripture where innocent life, (I believe the child in the womb regardless of how it was conceived is innocent.) provides a reason for the life to be taken. Until then it's just plain life or death that is being supported where the extenuating circumstances are not of the child's own making. For child it is! I've even looked into the child actually creating conditions where it is actually poison to the mother. The little I could find speaks more of conditions like this that are preventable, that would negate an either or situation.

The moral issues of how a child was conceived, still speaks to the innocence of the child, or do the sins of the father/mother fall upon the unborn? Some speak to generational curses, but is that something that an unborn even prior to birth is saddled with, and if so does it justify the child being aborted?

I realize after rereading what you've written that you're not actually suggesting exceptions to Abortion, but rather a dedicated effort to increasing the knowledge available to Mothers who will either raise the child or give one up for Adoption. The latter one being only an assumption on my part that you'd agree as acceptable. That being said, makes this an ethical point of view to have. Just stating no to Abortion is not enough. Much more needs to be done, but even without those, Abortion still cannot be an option.

On the need to study wider, against just the Gospels as it pertain to Scripture is to understand that there was a reason that they were given to us as well. Without it would I as a Gentile would not truly understand how I came to be included or even how rejected by His own people, how His people could/are still open to be part of God's Saving Grace. Would I understand "church"? So, many concepts that help us not only know Christ Jesus, but each other is opened to a greater understanding for us. However, the most telling evidence given us to understand is the Holy Spirit and what He has to share with us. That you would believe that "all wisdom can be found there" is to limit what food has been made available for us to grow with through the Holy Spirit in the rest of Scripture.

To be honest with you. I can understand your reasoning, but with this limitation those who seek to have discussions such as we are having here wind up arguing less the topics then the pitting of Jesus against the very ones He choose and taught to carry on His Commandments upon this Earth. This even includes Paul, who maybe because he was the more prolific writer, becomes the main opponent to Jesus in these discussions.

I could go on, but I think I've touched enough of some of what you have brought up. Plus, I have a headache (probably sinuses) whose persistence is worthy of this acknowledgement :smile:

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Member
There may be a time God becomes liberal again, but for now I think he is conservative.

Proverbs 11:25
25 The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.
 
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Staff Member
There may be a time God becomes liberal again, but for now I think he is conservative.

Proverbs 11:25
25 The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.
I’m sorry but that is not the same thing. That passage has nothing to do with political liberal views. Liberal has other definitions outside political stance. This passage refers to a generous person. Obviously God is generous and always will be towards His children.

From Merriam Webster

Definition of liberal

1a: of, relating to, or based on the liberal artsliberal education
barchaic : of or befitting a man of free birth

2a: marked by generosity : OPENHANDEDa liberal giver
b: given or provided in a generous and openhanded way a liberal meal
c: AMPLE, FULL

3obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS

4: not literal or strict : LOOSEa liberal translation

5: BROAD-MINDEDespecially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

6a: of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
bcapitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalismespecially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
 
Member
I’m sorry but that is not the same thing. That passage has nothing to do with political liberal views. Liberal has other definitions outside political stance. This passage refers to a generous person. Obviously God is generous and always will be towards His children.

From Merriam Webster

Definition of liberal

1a: of, relating to, or based on the liberal artsliberal education
barchaic : of or befitting a man of free birth

2a: marked by generosity : OPENHANDEDa liberal giver
b: given or provided in a generous and openhanded way a liberal meal
c: AMPLE, FULL

3obsolete : lacking moral restraint : LICENTIOUS

4: not literal or strict : LOOSEa liberal translation

5: BROAD-MINDEDespecially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms

6a: of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism
bcapitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalismespecially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives

They're called the Liberal Party because they are supposed to be acting with 'Liberty'. Anyway in Isaiah I think God expresses what the Liberal Party is going through today. That they are called liberal, but aren't even acting that way. This chapter rung to me the first time I read it.

Isaiah 32:5
Isaiah 32:8

32 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.

2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.

3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.

4 The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.

5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.

6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the Lord, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.
 
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Holiness and conforming to God's image is the standard we are striving for. Not political ideologies.

I used to be passionately conservative - not Fox news conservative - but constitutionally. Our constitution does its best to keep the government from gaining abusive over-reaching power, which is good. I have, since being born again, softened up a bit and can see some 'liberal' points of view on some matters, like immigration.

I understand that they are illegal in their movements, but those coming here can be fleeing persecution from their own governments, so I say to myself, boy, I couldn't tell them they don't have freedom of movement just because they aren't a citizen of a certain country. But then again there are laws in place in the US to establish a legal residence/citizenship. And I am not suppose to usurp that authority or have a rebellious attitude about it either. I mean, I did not establish those laws! Lol. So, now, I plead the fifth on most if not all political issues, turn, focus on my relationship with Jesus and devote my passions to Him.
 
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@Tristan W -- for sure immigration is a very complicated situation. There are Lots of refugees -- legitimate ones. Generally speaking they stay close to their own country -- language, culture , family, etc. Not usually very good living conditions, either. But it Is there homeland they are being close to.

Unfortunately there are those in This country who are Trying to destroy us from within. Life is complicated -- lots of complicated issues. And, as believers, we Do have heaven to look forward to. And those who believe what the book of Revelation tells us -- there Will be 1,000 years of righteous justice with Jesus Christ on His earthly throne. People who Do come to this country For freedom from tyranny Do need to go through the legal process. Learn English, follow Our laws, pledge allegience to This Flag. And, of course, people take customs with them from their home countries. My relatives came from Germany and Sweden. But they Also became USA citizens.
 
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This “dichotomy” is patently nonsensical. It only seems coherent to someone who is of this era, and of this country. The Christian principles of forsaking materialist values and cherishing forgiveness above all else coincidentally happen to align with contemporary American “liberal” politics. Just as the Christian virtues of chastity, restraint, modesty and honoring social and spiritual hierarchies coincidentally align with contemporary American “conservative” politics.

As for fine grain “issues” such as abortion and gay marriage, I’ll simply observe that partisans on both extremes of the American political spectrum hitch scripture to their pre-determined side of such arguments and become expert at arguing that perspective. Which I find a shabby and petty abuse of the covenant offered and affirmed in the crucifixion. I’ll accept there are plenty of conservative evangelical Christians at large today. But, by the same token, I dare anyone to claim with a straight face Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was either not a Christian, not a liberal, or simultaneously neither.
 
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My answer is an emphatic no! A person who believes in homosexuality and killing babies does not have Jesus inside them and is no Christian.
 
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Holiness and conforming to God's image is the standard we are striving for. Not political ideologies.

I used to be passionately conservative - not Fox news conservative - but constitutionally. Our constitution does its best to keep the government from gaining abusive over-reaching power, which is good. I have, since being born again, softened up a bit and can see some 'liberal' points of view on some matters, like immigration.

I understand that they are illegal in their movements, but those coming here can be fleeing persecution from their own governments, so I say to myself, boy, I couldn't tell them they don't have freedom of movement just because they aren't a citizen of a certain country. But then again there are laws in place in the US to establish a legal residence/citizenship. And I am not suppose to usurp that authority or have a rebellious attitude about it either. I mean, I did not establish those laws! Lol. So, now, I plead the fifth on most if not all political issues, turn, focus on my relationship with Jesus and devote my passions to Him.
I am in total agreement with your last statement our focus should not be on political issues, our focus should be on our every developing relationship with Jesus thereby allow Him and only Him to direct our path. Jesus wants us to have love for all. Divisiveness is not biblical.
 
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Well -- divisiveness Does happen when there ends up being works-based salvation.

And, politics is very much in our lives. It was in Jesus' day.

There is the thought 'today' of just being willing to put aside our Differences and focus on our commonalities. And, yes, God Is love, but there Is Also punishment For sins.
 
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I am in total agreement with your last statement our focus should not be on political issues, our focus should be on our every developing relationship with Jesus thereby allow Him and only Him to direct our path. Jesus wants us to have love for all. Divisiveness is not biblical.
Always stand up for what is holy, righteous and true
 
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Always stand up for what is holy, righteous and true
Yes. And when you do, you immediately side politically with one side or the other. Because the spiritual warfare involves politics. See (Rev. 11:15) "...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ...."

Don't think that ignoring the political environment and it's importance is equated with being 'spiritual'. It is not. If you ignore the politics of your country, and simply accept that God will do what He wants, then you will one day be persecuted and looking for a country to run to that did pay attention to the politics and did not let satan have his way.

When you side with the Lord, you make enemies politically. (Josh. 5:13-14) "....Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come...." Then immediately there was conflict with the politics of Canaan.

Many Christian martyrs are killed, not because they are Christian. They are somehow labeled enemies of the state. Are they martyrs of God or not? After all, they were disobedient to the state. Many Christian martyrs are killed because of their race, not because of their testimony. Are they martyrs of God or not? You see? satan doesn't care one bit how he can kill the Christians. he doesn't even care if he gets the credit. All he cares is that it gets done.

Quantrill
 
Active
Yes. And when you do, you immediately side politically with one side or the other. Because the spiritual warfare involves politics. See (Rev. 11:15) "...The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ...."

Don't think that ignoring the political environment and it's importance is equated with being 'spiritual'. It is not. If you ignore the politics of your country, and simply accept that God will do what He wants, then you will one day be persecuted and looking for a country to run to that did pay attention to the politics and did not let satan have his way.

When you side with the Lord, you make enemies politically. (Josh. 5:13-14) "....Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come...." Then immediately there was conflict with the politics of Canaan.

Many Christian martyrs are killed, not because they are Christian. They are somehow labeled enemies of the state. Are they martyrs of God or not? After all, they were disobedient to the state. Many Christian martyrs are killed because of their race, not because of their testimony. Are they martyrs of God or not? You see? satan doesn't care one bit how he can kill the Christians. he doesn't even care if he gets the credit. All he cares is that it gets done.

Quantrill
It is not one side or the other. It is God's side! You can't side with homosexuality, that is an abominatiom!
 
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Jesus didn't side with one political force or another. As the promised king, he challenged them all.
 

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