Can A Saved person Ever Become Unsaved?

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Hey JEff that is a great question and I do not claim to know it all, I love scripture and learning with brothers of Christ. So I can just give you the answer that looks to be the only one at this point from my understanding.

So in the scripture I listed God clearly tells us that we can not go to Jesus until God draws us to him.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

then in the scripture you listed is clearly states that

James- 4-8
Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

God states we are to draw near to him. Seems like a direct contradiction from what he is telling us in John6-44, my first thought is that when the father draws us to him we better be paying attention and draw near to him, instead of pulling away perhaps? Perhaps we can not draw near to him until he draws near to us but when he does we better be ready?

I do not know 100% for sure would love to here what you have to say on the matter.

Hello Dave, I think your answer is a good one. I understand what you are saying and appreciate you sharing. If I think of something better to add I will but I get what you are saying!

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

OK, I will drift slightly here. (apologies) But it is somewhat related to the discussion at hand.

Rom 10:13; for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14; How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
Rom 10:16; However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

I think it's possible that God comes to some people like He did to Paul/Saul on the road to Damascus. But for the vast majority of everyone else.
They don't just "come to God" on their own. Someone had to tell them about God/Jesus

John 12:32; "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

We need to "lift" "exalt" the name of Jesus. If we do this.. then men can be "drawn to Him".

The great commission (Matt or Mark, take your pick)

Matt 28:19; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matt 28:20; teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Mark 16:16; "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Mark 16:19; So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
Mark 16:20; And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.

Why would Jesus tell the disciples (and us) to go out into all the world and preach the gospel?

To as it says in Mark... to seek and save the lost!

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luke 22:19-20

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Acts 2:41-42
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow;
and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:7

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.
1Corinthians 11: 23-26

And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:26-28

My Fellowship only does the Eucharist communion on Sundays, exclusively. This is because of the tradition began by the Apostles in the beginning to meet on Sunday,
so as to separate and distinguish themselves from Jewish traditions of the Saturday sabbath.
But it is important to take communion every Sunday and to be reminded that our salvation is from what our Lord and God suffered horrendously at Calvary
for our atonement. It is never ever of our own works nor of any righteousness from ourselves.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:6-8

Taking communion on Sundays helps to remind us of this; lest we forget.

Excellent examples, thank you. I am distinguishing between a couple of things you mentioned though. Yes there is a biblical example of breaking bread on a Sunday however it is not exclusively and not at a church building. The biblical examples you shared were of people/ brothers and sisters in Christ fellowshiping in homes while they broke bread together, while eating a meal, as the reminder ( as scripture calls us to do). I know of no biblical example that says of suggests doing it any other way than that.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

So may I ask, if you break bread the 'correct and proper way' will you ultimately be saved?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

May I also ask, what does 'being saved' mean? What exactly constitutes being saved?

Bless you ....><>

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Greetings,

So may I ask, if you break bread the 'correct and proper way' will you ultimately be saved?

Bless you ....><>

I don't know if a scripture that says that.

Per your second question according to scripture we must believe ( in Him), confess (Him) as Lord and Savior , repent and be baptized.

 

[Jeff Hashbarger]

Greetings,

May I also ask, what does 'being saved' mean? What exactly constitutes being saved?

Bless you ....><>

As far as what being "saved " means I can't point to a scripture that specifically addresses that. Although scripture does call us to bear fruit ( of the Spirit) and be imitators of Him. I hope this helps

 

[Curtis]

As far as what being "saved " means I can't point to a scripture that specifically addresses that. Although scripture does call us to bear fruit ( of the Spirit) and be imitators of Him. I hope this helps

As Jesus said talking about his Father.....

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[B-A-C]

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Yes... that they "might" know. The Bible is full of verses like like they "may" be, or they "might" be, if they do this or that.
Knowing God and Jesus is one of the requirements for eternal life (there are over a dozen other requirements listed)
But of course eternal life... is just what it says it is. Eternal - never ending. Forever. When this physical life ends, our spiritual life continues.
We never truly die. This mortal body does but we don't.

1 Cor 15:12; Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

1 Cor 15:16; For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:17; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
1 Cor 15:18; Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1 Cor 15:19; If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

 

[Dave M]

Hello Dave, I think your answer is a good one. I understand what you are saying and appreciate you sharing. If I think of something better to add I will but I get what you are saying!

I think I was missing one part of the puzzle, for if we want the father to draw us we must repent !! repent is a must

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Curtis]

Yes... that they "might" know. The Bible is full of verses like like they "may" be, or they "might" be, if they do this or that.
Knowing God and Jesus is one of the requirements for eternal life (there are over a dozen other requirements listed)
But of course eternal life... is just what it says it is. Eternal - never ending. Forever. When this physical life ends, our spiritual life continues.
We never truly die. This mortal body does but we don't.

1 Cor 15:12; Now if Christ is preached, that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Cor 15:13; But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:14; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

1 Cor 15:16; For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
1 Cor 15:17; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
1 Cor 15:18; Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
1 Cor 15:19; If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

Nobody has eternal life unless they know God personally, not knowing about him but having a intimate relationship with him!!!
Everything Jesus did for us was geared for this purpose.

This is were error comes from in thinking a Christian can loose their salvation which is a false doctrine, but only by those who do not know the scriptures.

Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, 'Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.'
Mat 25:10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.'
Mat 25:12 But he answered, 'Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.'

Only those who know God have eternal life, and those who do not know God personally do not have eternal life.

 

[Waggles]

This is were error comes from in thinking a Christian can loose their salvation which is a false doctrine, but only by those who do not know the scriptures.

This is self-righteousness.
Notions about being truly saved and therefore a "believer" cannot lose their salvation,
is at best no more than
wishful thinking.

 

[Waggles]

But those gifts were given to them not us.

Simply not true!
The Apostolic Gospel, or what Pentecostals call the full gospel, of salvation is alive and being practiced today.
In the Revival Fellowship we preach and live Acts 2:38-39 and everybody can pray in other tongues by the Holy Spirit.
Our church enjoys the operation of all nine gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Our doctrine and salvation gospel is in full compliance with the first church and the scriptures.
Pentecostal divine healing began in England and the U.S. in the 1880s. Then there also began an outpouring of the latter rain with
people receiving the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues around the 1902-04 period.
Divine healing was enjoyed by many as it was also in Jesus' time.
Pentecostal gospel with Holy Spirit baptism and speaking in tongues and divine healing and miracles enjoyed a unparalleled popularity of acceptance
through to the 1930s.
The Second World War period disrupted this and people were involved in the war effort and conscription, etc.
Pentecost over the decades degenerated into the Evangelical movement where much of the original salvation gospel was watered down to broaden the
appeal of the gospel to a new generation less zealous for the strictness of the original teachings by Jesus and the Apostles.
As Americans became more affluent and with the rise of Humanism and hedonism the gospel message has been watered down and diluted over the
passing decades.

But in the midst of all this the Lord has preserved a rump. Some still believe the original one and only gospel preached and practiced by the Apostles
that you can read in Mark 16:15-20 and in Acts and the epistles.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly
contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jude 1:17-21

 

[Curtis]

Notions about being truly saved and therefore a "believer" cannot lose their salvation,
is at best no more than
wishful thinking.

Apparently you do not believe you are saved even though the scripture say so, and the Holy Spirit bears witness to that fact. What more do you need besides that? There will be no other proof given other than that to anybody, as that is all that is needed. The fear of loosing ones gift of eternal life comes not from the Father, but the enemy of faith. What ever is not of faith is sin!!! Self deception is one of things the five fold ministry was given to the Church by Jesus to keep the Church from.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

PS: you seem not to be able discern the difference between faith, and wishful thinking.

 

[B-A-C]

I am still waiting to see any scripture that says "once saved always saved". So far I haven't seen it.

While I do believe a relationship with Jesus is required. I also believe it's not the only requirement.
Satan knows who Jesus is. He has a relationship with Him. Judas knew Jesus, he had a relationship with Him.
The Pharisees talked to Jesus many times, they had a relationship with Him. A relationship alone doesn't save you either.

Jesus tells the 5 foolish virgins, I do not know you. But that is different from "I never knew you". It's possible He knew them in the past.
Yes, there are other scriptures where Jesus says "I NEVER knew you". But that isn't always the case. The only difference between the
5 wise virgins and the 5 foolish virgins was that they ran out of oil.

 

[Curtis]

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Did God sit around waiting to see what we would do in this life before he choose each and every person in Christ before the foundation of the world?

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

God saved, and called every single saint before the world began!!!

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Every single saint the Lord God called, saved, and chosen before the foundation of the world, he also
has already glorified!!!

Col 1:13 [The Father] has delivered and drawn us to Himself out of the control and the dominion of darkness and has transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Those to whom he called, saved, chosen, glorified before the foundation of the world he has already translated into his Kingdom!!!

Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Even before we were ever born, and while we would still be in sin after being born on planet earth he “raised” us up together with Christ, and we are right now this very minute sitting on the right hand of God in Heavenly places!!!!

What part of this is to difficult to understand? This all takes “faith” to believe before one can experience it's reality!!!

Maybe God is not smart enough to know from the foundation of the world who would be his glorified, saved, and chosen saints from the foundation of the world, and that maybe, just maybe he missed something that was beyond his Wisdom to see, and there by he lost a few, because he was not smart enough to see their actions!!!

Not a chance on your life. Never happen, and never will!!!!

Those who think a Christian can loose their salvation do not have the slightest clue in how God works, and has worked before time began!!!

 

[B-A-C]

Ok, he chose some of us and rejected others of us.. even if that's true. What does that have to do with OSAS?

Actually we are all chosen. We are all called.

1 Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1 Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

God wants EVERYONE to be saved. Some people just don't want to be.

 

[Curtis]

Ok, he chose some of us and rejected others of us.. even if that's true. What does that have to do with OSAS?

Actually we are all chosen. We are all called.

1 Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1 Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

God wants EVERYONE to be saved. Some people just don't want to be.

Do you think the Lord does not know those who are his, and those who are not his which he knew from the foundation of the world? Or do you think he is waiting around to see what we are going to do so he can change what he already knew. You have this thinking the Lord does not know his Church that he has already saved then glorified, and chosen them from the beginning of the world!!! Those who are his know they are his by the Holy Spirit which bears witness to that fact!!! If we do not have this certainty then we are not his, and we should not call ourselves believers.

 

[Curtis]

Actually we are all chosen. We are all called.

This is "error", you mean many are called, but few are chosen. (Matt 22:14)

 

[Curtis]

It may be a negative testimony but it is a real possibility. We can cast aside what we have gained. I also did this once in a very serious way. Fortunately, God was merciful and did not finally reject me. He allowed me to come back to Him.

The reality is God chastises and corrects every son he receives when you get off the beaten path. God did not allow you to come back he brought you back.

Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Heb 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Heb 12:10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.