Baptism in the Holy Spirit : revisited

[Ivan Chamurliev]

About the baptism in water I would say that I would advice someone to be baptized first in the Spirit or at least to have a strong experience with it, and then to be baptized with water. It is because we need an assurance, an experience with God before taking the decision of being baptized in water.
Obviously there are cases when the people have received the Holy Spirit after being baptized with water, in another occasion.
But to me the baptism with water had always represented a compromise, a pact with God to follow Him. And how can we do that without having His power in us? Many religions as well take the baptism with water as something that makes you part of that religion, as something that almost gives you a salvation, but I think that it is not in this way. It is just a part of it, but what makes it complete and what is the most important is the Holy Spirit. He makes us part of God's family.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Do we believe in co-incidence? No. But we do believe in God-incidence. Yes.

I have been meaning to add a post about something for a while, it remained on my heart to do so, then I read this thread, it hits the top note for me, I feel it right to add it here.

My post was to be on the following lines...

Going about our daily life we chat to a colleague, one day we feel led to share a little about Jesus, the person doesn't want to know so we back off at that point. Another time we feeling it is right we share a little more, again our friends barriers go up. Each time we pray before and after talking with our friend, every time we feel led to share the Good News. Then one day we feel led and talk a little more, this time our friend is all ears, he/she realises they need forgiveness of their sins, he/she realises they will not go to heaven unless they are forgiven and ask Jesus into their heart. So we come together and pray out loud, with our lips, the prayer of faith, in Jesus Name. We come away rejoicing with the angels in heaven for another soul that is saved.

But is our friends soul saved?

 

[Trevor]

About the baptism in water I would say that I would advice someone to be baptized first in the Spirit or at least to have a strong experience with it, and then to be baptized with water. It is because we need an assurance, an experience with God before taking the decision of being baptized in water.
Obviously there are cases when the people have received the Holy Spirit after being baptized with water, in another occasion.
But to me the baptism with water had always represented a compromise, a pact with God to follow Him. And how can we do that without having His power in us? Many religions as well take the baptism with water as something that makes you part of that religion, as something that almost gives you a salvation, but I think that it is not in this way. It is just a part of it, but what makes it complete and what is the most important is the Holy Spirit. He makes us part of God's family.

Hi Ivan, I was under the impression that being submerged under the water in baptism, was symbolic of the flood where the world was put to death by drowning. And emerging from the water, was rising to a new life, having left the world and the old life behind under the water, and that new life, is eternal life in the Spirit. It seems somewhat back to front to have your new life in the old world you are called to leave, before you have left it.

 

[Bill]

Colossians 1:26-27
I don't fully understand this but I believe that this happens the very moment God gives you the gift of life and the power to believe because you acknowledged your sinful nature and belief in Jesus Christ.

Jesus who we recieve when we accept Him , is the life giving bread and the life giving water .

The Apostles already accepted Jesus as Lord before ever recieving the Holy Spirit . Penticost was something totally different

 

[Trevor]

Matthew 28:19 " Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." These are the words of our King.

 

[B-A-C]

Three Baptisms? Another area of controversy in some churches.

Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

In verse 4, they say they were already baptized 'into John's baptism'. (Water).
In verse 5, it says now they are baptized in the name of Jesus.
In verse 6, it says they received the Holy Spirit (which a few moments ago, they didn't even know existed).

Is there a difference between baptized in water, and in the name of Jesus?

I've heard some say.. these three baptisms signify the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
They believe that Jesus is the source of Living water, but that living water is the Father. (I have asked for scripture to support this in the past).

 

[Trevor]

Three Baptisms? Another area of controversy in some churches.

Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

In verse 4, they say they were already baptized 'into John's baptism'. (Water).
In verse 5, it says now they are baptized in the name of Jesus.
In verse 6, it says they received the Holy Spirit (which a few moments ago, they didn't even know existed).

Is there a difference between baptized in water, and in the name of Jesus?

I've heard some say.. these three baptisms signify the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
They believe that Jesus is the source of Living water, but that living water is the Father. (I have asked for scripture to support this in the past).

I'll have to wait until the Lord opens my eyes to this one. This is the first time I have heard of three baptisms.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Baptism by the Holy Spirit, Born Again, God's decision before the foundation, in or out of water.

 

[Ivan Chamurliev]

Hi Ivan, I was under the impression that being submerged under the water in baptism, was symbolic of the flood where the world was put to death by drowning. And emerging from the water, was rising to a new life, having left the world and the old life behind under the water, and that new life, is eternal life in the Spirit. It seems somewhat back to front to have your new life in the old world you are called to leave, before you have left it.

Hi Trevor. From my own experience, I think that the baptism of water is symbolical. It works only, if someone really meant to do that. To be baptized publicly to me means that you are testifying to everyone that now you belong to Him, that now you will follow Him. And someone can be doing that really meaning to do it or can be doing it, without actually understanding it. And how is someone going to mean it REALLY or understand it, if he didn't have that special touch from God in His life. Obviously someone can be baptized with water and then to continue look for His Holy Spirit and that's fine, but we can also often see persons conforming just with the water baptism without looking for more.
In this case it turns just in simple ritual. We have to remember as well that before the Israelites passed through the open sea ( that represents water baptism 1 Corinthians 10:1,2 ), they had to mark their doors with the blood of the sacrificial Lamb for their firstborns to be spared. This is what actually let them out of Egypt, that represents the slavery of sin in our life.
And that Lamb is Christ. What I'm trying to say is that the experience with the blood of Christ washing away our sin and forgiving us must be first in many cases. Only then we can fully understand what baptism means. Then the baptism just confirms and strengthens the faith that is already there.
Obviously it can happen in opposite way, I am not saying no, but it still doesn't take away that simply to be baptized in water is not enough. I am not taking away the importance of water baptism. It is commanded and this is what left Pharaoh's army under the water. But when? When they already had an experience with Him. Now, I can't say if receiving the blood of Christ is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Maybe? Don't we receive His Spirit when we are forgiven? Maybe later on we can get the fullness of His Spirit. I don't know, but one thing is for sure and this is that without receiving His blood we can't receive ANYTHING else. His blood is the foundation of everything. This is the work of the cross. It is in the centre of everything.

 

[Bill]

Hi Trevor. From my own experience, I think that the baptism of water is symbolical. It works only, if someone really meant to do that. To be baptized publicly to me means that you are testifying to everyone that now you belong to Him, that now you will follow Him. And someone can be doing that really meaning to do it or can be doing it, without actually understanding it. And how is someone going to mean it REALLY or understand it, if he didn't have that special touch from God in His life. Obviously someone can be baptized with water and then to continue look for His Holy Spirit and that's fine, but we can also often see persons conforming just with the water baptism without looking for more.
In this case it turns just in simple ritual. We have to remember as well that before the Israelites passed through the open sea ( that represents water baptism 1 Corinthians 10:1,2 ), they had to mark their doors with the blood of the sacrificial Lamb for their firstborns to be spared. This is what actually let them out of Egypt, that represents the slavery of sin in our life.
And that Lamb is Christ. What I'm trying to say is that the experience with the blood of Christ washing away our sin and forgiving us must be first in many cases. Only then we can fully understand what baptism means. Then the baptism just confirms and strengthens the faith that is already there.
Obviously it can happen in opposite way, I am not saying no, but it still doesn't take away that simply to be baptized in water is not enough. I am not taking away the importance of water baptism. It is commanded and this is what left Pharaoh's army under the water. But when? When they already had an experience with Him. Now, I can't say if receiving the blood of Christ is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Maybe? Don't we receive His Spirit when we are forgiven? Maybe later on we can get the fullness of His Spirit. I don't know, but one thing is for sure and this is that without receiving His blood we can't receive ANYTHING else. His blood is the foundation of everything. This is the work of the cross. It is in the centre of everything.

A friend of mine is a missionary in Africa . The area he worked had not seen rain for a long time . Months . There was a revival going on , and he could feel the Presence of the Holy Spirit he said . Everyone wanted to be Baptized. He said Suddenly a strong rain came , everyone went outside , he Baptized all who were there and many began speaking in tongues and all sorts of healings took place.

I thought it cool that God chose the method of the Baptism.

 

[Trevor]

Hi Trevor. From my own experience, I think that the baptism of water is symbolical. It works only, if someone really meant to do that. To be baptized publicly to me means that you are testifying to everyone that now you belong to Him, that now you will follow Him. And someone can be doing that really meaning to do it or can be doing it, without actually understanding it. And how is someone going to mean it REALLY or understand it, if he didn't have that special touch from God in His life. Obviously someone can be baptized with water and then to continue look for His Holy Spirit and that's fine, but we can also often see persons conforming just with the water baptism without looking for more.
In this case it turns just in simple ritual. We have to remember as well that before the Israelites passed through the open sea ( that represents water baptism 1 Corinthians 10:1,2 ), they had to mark their doors with the blood of the sacrificial Lamb for their firstborns to be spared. This is what actually let them out of Egypt, that represents the slavery of sin in our life.
And that Lamb is Christ. What I'm trying to say is that the experience with the blood of Christ washing away our sin and forgiving us must be first in many cases. Only then we can fully understand what baptism means. Then the baptism just confirms and strengthens the faith that is already there.
Obviously it can happen in opposite way, I am not saying no, but it still doesn't take away that simply to be baptized in water is not enough. I am not taking away the importance of water baptism. It is commanded and this is what left Pharaoh's army under the water. But when? When they already had an experience with Him. Now, I can't say if receiving the blood of Christ is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Maybe? Don't we receive His Spirit when we are forgiven? Maybe later on we can get the fullness of His Spirit. I don't know, but one thing is for sure and this is that without receiving His blood we can't receive ANYTHING else. His blood is the foundation of everything. This is the work of the cross. It is in the centre of everything.

Hi Ivan, I woke up at four this morning, and the Lord reminded me of Cornelius 'Acts 10', where he had a vision, and God told him to seek out Peter. Peter also had a vision and was told to go to Cornelius with the servants Cornelius had sent. Peter went and while he was sharing the gospel with the people at Cornelius's house, the Holy Spirit filled all in the house and Peter said "can anyone keep these people from being baptised with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days It seems I got it wrong in my post. Bless you.
I must be getting old, it's just occurred to me that I was moved in the Spirit before I was baptised in water. I think I aught to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Bill]

Hi Ivan, I woke up at four this morning, and the Lord reminded me of Cornelius 'Acts 10', where he had a vision, and God told him to seek out Peter. Peter also had a vision and was told to go to Cornelius with the servants Cornelius had sent. Peter went and while he was sharing the gospel with the people at Cornelius's house, the Holy Spirit filled all in the house and Peter said "can anyone keep these people from being baptised with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days It seems I got it wrong in my post. Bless you.
I must be getting old, it's just occurred to me that I was moved in the Spirit before I was baptised in water. I think I aught to go back to the drawing board.

God amazes us all my friend .

 

[Trevor]

Hi Ivan, I was under the impression that being submerged under the water in baptism, was symbolic of the flood where the world was put to death by drowning. And emerging from the water, was rising to a new life, having left the world and the old life behind under the water, and that new life, is eternal life in the Spirit. It seems somewhat back to front to have your new life in the old world you are called to leave, before you have left it.

God amazes us all my friend .

Amen.

 

[Brother-Paul]

God amazes us all my friend .

He sure does brother, in every way.

PTL always

 

[B-A-C]

Peter said "can anyone keep these people from being baptised with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." So he ordered that they be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days It seems I got it wrong in my post. Bless you.

I brought this up earlier, at the bottom of post #1 in this thread. I said maybe the order isn't that important. But I do notice everyone else besides Cornelius (and his family)
was baptized in water first.

 

[Trevor]

I brought this up earlier, at the bottom of post #1 in this thread. I said maybe the order isn't that important. But I do notice everyone else besides Cornelius (and his family)
was baptized in water first.

I've just read your post No1 B.A.C, I hadn't fully read it before. So we are in agreement that God can do as he pleases because he is God, he can even call animals clean that he has deemed unclean. He is truly a remarkable Father. It's also very telling how hard it was for the disciples to accept the gentiles, after years of tradition and law. Probably as hard for them as it is for many Christians to accept Israel in our modern era. I believe that when the two understand one another, things will become clearer.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I've just read your post No1 B.A.C, I hadn't fully read it before. So we are in agreement that God can do as he pleases because he is God, he can even call animals clean that he has deemed unclean. He is truly a remarkable Father. It's also very telling how hard it was for the disciples to accept the gentiles, after years of tradition and law. Probably as hard for them as it is for many Christians to accept Israel in our modern era. I believe that when the two understand one another, things will become clearer.

Christian's not accepting Israel, is something I don't understand, ..Non-Cristians maybe but true Christian's, I don't get it..God calls for accepting Israel and issued warnings for those who don't!!

 

[Brother-Paul]

Christian's not accepting Israel, is something I don't understand, ..Non-Cristians maybe but true Christian's, I don't get it..God calls for accepting Israel and issued warnings for those who don't!!

It is because they do not understand my friend, they have not been taught, in all things Jews First. They have not been taught about Israel, they have not been taught that we are grafted into the original vine, which comes from the original root stock, the lump. They have been taught that the Jews killed Jesus, the RCC was notorious for this, but I must say not just the RCC. Christianity has been taught as being a different religion, it is so sad, so sad.

 

[Born Again 2004]

It is because they do not understand my friend, they have not been taught, in all things Jews First. They have not been taught about Israel, they have not been taught that we are grafted into the original vine, which comes from the original root stock, the lump. They have been taught that the Jews killed Jesus, the RCC was notorious for this, but I must say not just the RCC. Christianity has been taught as being a different religion, it is so sad, so sad.

I guess they don't read the Bible either!

 

[Bill]

I guess they don't read the Bible either!

If God only wanted one language or 1 understanding or one way of thinking we would only be robots. But I truly believe just like there are many instruments in an orchestra I truly believe that there are many reasons for all these different churches that each church has something to glean , something to share or give. They are all part of the whole. Body of Christ