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Atheism

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Unworthy Servant
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You told me I made rude noises about the bible. Where?
Greetings Vincent,

i don't think i did

Perhaps there is a possibility - so when in doubt, make lots of rude noises about the Bible and those who do believe, try to con-vince that atheism is right, based on that which they dare not or can not claim to be true and then vince might get conned and start believing that?
that was a generic comment regarding many atheists who do make rude noises. You might notice i did not explicitly mention or refer to you as doing that [also, if you re-read that, it was placing you in the position of one who potentially gets conned by such 'rude noises'.]

Thank you for sharing the alternative dictionary definition.


Bless you ....><>
 
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So how do you “know” god exists and that it is the Christian god?
I know because God has opened my spiritual eyes to know, which is why all Christians believe. Christians have a 'knowing' that comes from the Spirit. It is not just a mental assessment.

That the God Who I am of and Who I worship is the Christian God, I know, as it is Jesus Christ Who I trust as My Saviour and Who I worship as God.

That the Christians God is the One and only true God, I know, as the written Word of God declares it so.

Quantrill
 
Member
Greetings Vincent,

i don't think i did



that was a generic comment regarding many atheists who do make rude noises. You might notice i did not explicitly mention or refer to you as doing that [also, if you re-read that, it was placing you in the position of one who potentially gets conned by such 'rude noises'.]

Thank you for sharing the alternative dictionary definition.


Bless you ....><>
Ok. I misunderstood.

Also, That is not an alternate definition, it is a definition.
 
Member
I know because God has opened my spiritual eyes to know, which is why all Christians believe. Christians have a 'knowing' that comes from the Spirit. It is not just a mental assessment.

That the God Who I am of and Who I worship is the Christian God, I know, as it is Jesus Christ Who I trust as My Saviour and Who I worship as God.

That the Christians God is the One and only true God, I know, as the written Word of God declares it so.

Quantrill
Ok. This is not convincing. It also dos not answer my question. This just says I know because I know. How do you determine your knowledge is from the spirit?
 
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Ok. This is not convincing. It also dos not answer my question. This just says I know because I know. How do you determine your knowledge is from the spirit?
I'm not here to convince you. It does answer your question. You just want an evidence based answer. Sorry. God makes Himself known to the Christian. We believe and know. The Spirit of God has opened our eyes, and the Scriptures give us explanation of our relationship with God and Christ.

Quantrill
 
Member
I'm not here to convince you. It does answer your question. You just want an evidence based answer. Sorry. God makes Himself known to the Christian. We believe and know. The Spirit of God has opened our eyes, and the Scriptures give us explanation of our relationship with God and Christ.

Quantrill
OK, but why would you expect others to believe you when you have no way to demonstrate you hear from god? Or know somehow?
 
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A few comments from me. First, the Bible doesn't really make any attempt to prove the existence God. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth..."

The story is about God's unfolding plan for humans.

I know the main philosophical arguments for the existence of God, but I understand that they're not convincing to an atheist.

The reason I'm not an atheist is that God has - to me convincingly - revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Everything flows from that.
 
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A few comments from me. First, the Bible doesn't really make any attempt to prove the existence God. "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth..."

The story is about God's unfolding plan for humans.

I know the main philosophical arguments for the existence of God, but I understand that they're not convincing to an atheist.

The reason I'm not an atheist is that God has - to me convincingly - revealed himself in the person of Jesus Christ. Everything flows from that.
Why do you believe that Jesus is the son of god? How was this revealed to you so you were convinced?
 
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OK, but why would you expect others to believe you when you have no way to demonstrate you hear from god? Or know somehow?
We simply give the Gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. We expect the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of those who He desires to. Which He does by the way. Just because you are blind, doesn't mean others will remain blind.

Quantrill
 
Member
We simply give the Gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. We expect the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of those who He desires to. Which He does by the way. Just because you are blind, doesn't mean others will remain blind.

Quantrill
Muslims believe for the same reasons Christians do and for the same reasons Jews do. Why are Christians to be believed over these other faiths when they give the same reasons for belief?
 
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Muslims believe for the same reasons Christians do and for the same reasons Jews do. Why are Christians to be believed over these other faiths when they give the same reasons for belief?
Because salvation is found only in Jesus Christ. Neither muslims or Jews as a people believe this.

It is not that Christians are to be believed. The Bible, the Word of God is to be believed. And that is it's declaration.

Quantrill
 
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Why do you believe that Jesus is the son of god? How was this revealed to you so you were convinced?
I was brought up to believe that jesus was the son of God, so there was no single moment of revelation for me.

But whenever I've doubted or gone on one of my periodic dark nights of the soul, I've come back to the question of the life and person of Jesus. I can find no plausible explanation for the accounts of his life death and resurrection other than that he was God.
 
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I was brought up to believe that jesus was the son of God, so there was no single moment of revelation for me.

But whenever I've doubted or gone on one of my periodic dark nights of the soul, I've come back to the question of the life and person of Jesus. I can find no plausible explanation for the accounts of his life death and resurrection other than that he was God.
I understand your conclusion based on the gospel accounts. But that is predicated on the truthfulness of the gospels. Why do you believe the gospel accounts? Also, why discount the supernatural stories of other religions?
 
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I understand your conclusion based on the gospel accounts. But that is predicated on the truthfulness of the gospels. Why do you believe the gospel accounts? Also, why discount the supernatural stories of other religions?
Because they are the Word of God.

You can have 'supernatural' in other religions. The question is what is the source of that 'supernatural'? With the Bible, the source is God.

Quantrill
 
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I understand your conclusion based on the gospel accounts. But that is predicated on the truthfulness of the gospels. Why do you believe the gospel accounts? Also, why discount the supernatural stories of other religions?
Read the gospels. They are far too raw, earthy and messy to be the product of fabricated propaganda.

If you set the gospel accounts to one side, there's other sources which tell us that Jesus lived as a preacher and prophet, was sentenced to death by Pilate, and that the church grew on his disciples claim that he was risen from the dead.

Even on that evidence it's very hard to explain away what happened. There's nobody who stood to gain from a deception that Jesus was alive.
 
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Muslims believe for the same reasons Christians do and for the same reasons Jews do. Why are Christians to be believed over these other faiths when they give the same reasons for belief?
Just utter nonsense. Islam spread early via the sword. Judaism by birth / God helping them escape Egypt. Writing His law on ten stone tablets, parting a sea and drowning an army that held them captive for 400 years. Christianity from missionary work. Started by the 12 disciples. Of which 4 have their personal account of Jesus recorded in the gospels and Paul who wrote 3/4 of the NT after a life changing experience. A person en-route to Damascus to kill Christians, does the complete opposite.

If Napoleon can '''grasp''' this about Jesus Napoleon's Proof for the Divinity of Jesus

What a conqueror! --a conqueror who controls humanity at will, and wins to himself not only one nation, but the whole human race. What a marvel! He attaches to himself the human soul with all its energies. And how? By a miracle which surpasses all others. He claims the love of men--that is to say, the most difficult thing in the world to obtain; that which the wisest of men cannot froce from his truest friend, that which no father can compel from his children, no wife from her husband, no brother from his brother--the heart. He claims it; he requires it absolutely and undividedly, and he obtains it instantly.

Alexander, Caesar, Hannibal, Louis XIV strove in vain to secure this. They conquered the world, yet they had not a single friend, or at all events, they have none any more. Christ speaks, however, and from that moment all generations belong to him;


What is your excuse?
 
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How do you determine your knowledge is from the spirit?
You discern it with your working brain.

You start experiencing visions, dreams, speaking in strange tongues, lose a desire to continue in sin, look at people with love. This all ties up with and gets explained in scripture. Evidence confirmation works in both directions.
 
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Also, I'd suggest you take a closer look at science and evolution. For example, the micro-macro distinction is largely used by religious fundamentalists, not by scientists. Also, your statement that macro-evolution has never been observed is incorrect. It has been created in the lab, using bacteria. I can send you the title of this scientific paper if you wish. Even if it had never been observed in the lab, that has nothing to do whatsoever with the validity of evolution.
Outside of the ''cough cough' science of evolution there are these two truths....

1. Atheists ''like'' to push it as it pushes the ''most'' plausible theory against intelligent design / a creator God. 13 Billion years, two atoms collide = randomness from a gene pool of many particles.

2. Christians like to debunk evolutionary claims as 1. It suggests God is wicked. Natural selection is wicked, just as the guy been eaten. 2. It makes Christianity look like 6000 year old religious dogma. What of the 124k years prior? intelligent man is said to live for 130k years. 3. It mocks the cross. Jesus died for Adam and....Adams father? What of the ape - men before intelligent man? Why did it take 130k years before Abraham - Jacob - Jews - Jesus took place?

Theistic evolutionists are deluded and don't know their bible well enough to know that evolution is incompatible. Then evolutionists who ''actually'' believe it provides a reasonable theory contrary / in opposition to intelligent design are grossly deluded. Like an ostrich who has forced its head a couple of meters into the ground. Irreducible complexity is a sound theory that utterly debunks randomness. The arguments against it hold no water. It is a sound theory. Intelligent design is as clear a truth as this post is on this thread. As Isaac Newton says '' In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence.''
 
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At present, odds are the correct age of teh earth being 4.5 billion years are far, far grater than it having been created in six days starting in 4004 BC. Absolute truth, in a strict scientific sense, means you have direct, immediate sensory observation to support your hypothesis. Truth is, we generally don't, given any scientific concept.
The only way 13 billion years from big bang / 4.5 billion years earth is plausible is if you believe it was guided. Otherwise the odds of having what we have today (from pure randomness / or via natural selection) in just 4.5 billion years is insanely hilarious.
 
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