Are we firstborn with a Divine nature or a sin nature?

[Curtis]

The word “flesh” in scripture does not always mean the outer skin, or body of man, as I showed earlier.

It also speaks of the “sin nature” and heart, mind, and the spirit working in man.

Romans 8:6-9​

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King James Version​

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6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are “in the flesh” cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

When Paul says “But ye are not in the flesh” he is not talking about the physical body, but the nature/ mind/ spirit of the old Adam “sin nature.”

Even if one is in the spirit man's sinful human nature is always present because it is in his flesh. This sinful human nature is always lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh as they are contrary to one another.

Not until we get a new supernatural body will that change.

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 5:12; Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

 

[Beetow]

Jesus was uncontaminated because his blood came from his father not his mother.

Jesus got his blood from David.

• Rom 1:3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according
to the flesh

Seeing as how Joseph played no role in Jesus' conception, then it had to be his
mother who transferred David's flesh to baby Jesus, i.e. David was one of Mary's
grandfathers.

Now if Jesus got his flesh from David, and David got his flesh from Adam; then
Jesus also got his flesh from Adam too because that is the only flesh God created
for mankind.

• Acts 17:26 . . From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole
earth.

* Now supposing Jesus was born with a human blood especially created for the
purpose of his crucifixion. What then?

Well the thing is: the body that Jesus obtained from David would replace that
special blood's cells in a very short time because that is what the human body is
designed to do. None of us have the blood cells we were born with; they're all
gone, replaced many years ago while we were still very young.
_

 

[Beetow]

DELETED

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Even if one is in the spirit man's sinful human nature is always present because it is in his flesh. This sinful human nature is always lusting against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh as they are contrary to one another.

Not until we get a new supernatural body will that change.

I disagree, you speak of a double minded man who is unstable in all his ways. That is the Romans 7 condition, not the Romans 6 condition of being “made free from sin”, and made free from that old Adam sin nature.

That old man sin nature is the “enmity” that Jesus came to remove in us; as sin separates us from God.

That old sin nature was to be crucified in us with Christ, thus putting to death that “body of sin” as Paul said.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that “the body of sin” might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified “the flesh” with the affections and lusts.

If one is truly “ born again” of the Spirit, they are no longer “in the flesh” as Paul also said. The old sin nature passes away and dies, and we are raised up a new man in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Luminary]

Can you please stay on topic. This thread is not about, what does this symbolize, or what does that symbolize.

I’m trying too…as what those symbolize are important to the discussion at hand!

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I’m trying too…as what those symbolize are important to the discussion at hand!

If you want to prove to us all why you believe every one is firstborn with a Divine nature, then just speak your mind. No need to beat around the bush. ( so to speak)

 

[Luminary]

If you want to prove to us all why you believe every one is firstborn with a Divine nature, then just speak your mind. No need to beat around the bush. ( so to speak)

Words have to be established.

Which is why I’m asking these questions.

 

[Curtis]

Jesus got his blood from David.

• Rom 1:3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according
to the flesh

Seeing as how Joseph played no role in Jesus' conception, then it had to be his
mother who transferred David's flesh to baby Jesus, i.e. David was one of Mary's
grandfathers.

Now if Jesus got his flesh from David, and David got his flesh from Adam; then
Jesus also got his flesh from Adam too because that is the only flesh God created
for mankind.

• Acts 17:26 . . From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole
earth.

* Now supposing Jesus was born with a human blood especially created for the
purpose of his crucifixion. What then?

Well the thing is: the body that Jesus obtained from David would replace that
special blood's cells in a very short time because that is what the human body is
designed to do. None of us have the blood cells we were born with; they're all
gone, replaced many years ago while we were still very young.
_

The seed of David according to the flesh does not mean David was Jesus's father. God the Father is where Jesus derived his blood from which is why Jesus was sinless. Mary was a descendant of David.

Jesus claimed he was not the son of David. The seed of David is only symbolic.

Mar 12:35 And as Jesus taught in the temple, he said, “How can the scribes say that the Christ is the son of David?
Mar 12:36 David himself, in the Holy Spirit, declared, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.”’
Mar 12:37 David himself calls him Lord. So how is he his son?” And the great throng heard him gladly.

 

[Curtis]

I disagree, you speak of a double minded man who is unstable in all his ways. That is the Romans 7 condition, not the Romans 6 condition of being “made free from sin”, and made free from that old Adam sin nature.

That old man sin nature is the “enmity” that Jesus came to remove in us; as sin separates us from God.

That old sin nature was to be crucified in us with Christ, thus putting to death that “body of sin” as Paul said.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that “the body of sin” might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified “the flesh” with the affections and lusts.

If one is truly “ born again” of the Spirit, they are no longer “in the flesh” as Paul also said. The old sin nature passes away and dies, and we are raised up a new man in Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

So, you to have completely renewed your carnal mind which is at enmity against God? Are you completely free from sin in your body? If we say we have no sin we are self-deceived and the truth is not in us. What if we walk in the light as he is in the light why would we need the blood of Jesus to continuously cleanse us from all sin if we are free from sin? Are the works of the sinful nature completely eradicated from your flesh? The sinful flesh is so corrupt it can not be fixed it has to be replaced and that has not yet happened.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Words have to be established.

Which is why I’m asking these questions.

You don’t need to ask me questions to express your point of view, and why you believe the way you believe. You know how to look up meanings of words, you don’t need me.

Just explain why you believe every one is firstborn with a Divine nature.

 

[Luminary]

You don’t need to ask me questions to express your point of view, and why you believe the way you believe. You know how to look up meanings of words, you don’t need me.

Just explain why you believe every one is firstborn with a Divine nature.

You started this post because of me. You made it crystal clear.

So it does me no good to look up a word to find -your- understanding of such.

Why the walls going up?

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

So, you to have completely renewed your carnal mind which is at enmity against God?

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Are you completely free from sin in your body?

Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

If we say we have no sin we are self-deceived and the truth is not in us.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

What if we walk in the light as he is in the light why would we need the blood of Jesus to continuously cleanse us from all sin if we are free from sin?

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Are the works of the sinful nature completely eradicated from your flesh? The sinful flesh is so corrupt it can not be fixed it has to be replaced and that has not yet happened.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

You started this post because of me. You made it crystal clear.

So it does me no good to look up a word to find -your- understanding of such.

Why the walls going up?

No walls, but you need to defend your position, not me.

 

[Luminary]

No walls, but you need to defend your position, not me.

I will if you can play along….

First there needs to be an understanding between us on what Divine -nature- means.
(Not what attributes it carries).

Then the understanding has to be established, in what the Breath of Life is.

And if it is considered Divine in itself?
(Being from God himself)

 

[Curtis]

Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:9e
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

All of those scriptures are true, yet all believers are in a process of them becoming a reality in their lives. All born-again Christians are "becoming" (the process of making holy . Also known as spiritual growth, sanctification) the perfect man they already are in Christ.

 

[Curtis]

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:18
We know that whosoever is born of Godsinneth not; but he that is begotten of Godkeepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

You never ever sin even after becoming a believer?

 

[Curtis]

You never ever sin even after becoming a believer?

And if you do (and you do) which part of man's nature sins?

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I will if you can play along….

First there needs to be an understanding between us on what Divine -nature- means.
(Not what attributes it carries).

Then the understanding has to be established, in what the Breath of Life is.

And if it is considered Divine in itself?
(Being from God himself)

Ok, here you go…. 2 Peter 1:4

1:4 - Whereby G1223 G3739 are given G1433 unto us G2254 exceeding great G3176 and G2532 precious G5093promises: G1862 that G2443 by G1223these G5130 ye might be G1096partakers G2844 of the divine G2304nature, G5449 having escaped G668the corruption G5356 that is in G1722the world G2889 through G1722lust. G1939

Divine=G23O4

KJV Translation Count — Total: 3x
The KJV translates Strong's G2304 in the following manner: divine (2x), Godhead (1x).

Strong’s Definitions
θεῖος theîos, thi'-os; from G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity):—divine, godhead.

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks
2. spoken of the only and true God, trinity
   1. of Christ
   2. Holy Spirit
   3. the Father

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

You never ever sin even after becoming a believer?

It’s not about what you are, or what you think I might be. It is about what the Word of God says is True.

If a sinner says, I am a sinner, therefore the words of God must not be true, concerning being made free from sin.

The sinner then judges the words of God as being false based on “his own condition”’ and not on “faith” in God’s Word, which can indeed make him free.