And i think many of us, do not have our own view of "eschatology" by personal reading of "the Bible" and have been influence by others. And then some have pick the view that they like and more closer to their comfort zone.

For I do thank God I was never influence in such a way. For after about 3 to 4 readings of The whole bible in less than a year, I was shock to see in the whole of Holy Scripture to see a "rapture" of the Body of Christ and to see The great tribulation, and our role in the Millennium and the Ceremony at the Coronation table in Heaven, By the continually reading the Bible as a whole, The holy Spirit would give me "Snap Shots" of whole events, 'Biblical Motifs', "Types and shadows," "Beatific visions," For i did not have or read books concerning "eschatology". I read MY BIBLE, OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND AGAIN. And i can to the conclusion, i knew more about the Things to Come was highlighted in the OT only by reading it so much and It was Justified in the NT. and that the Book of Revelation is Only the Revealing of Jesus Christ, or unveiling of Jesus Christ! and Many have or know the intention and what the Book of Revelation is. And you cannot explain it to them or teach it. And there are many who try, and try to explain, and by doing so they are in error.

So do not even waste your time in heated discussion about it. There are so many views in each, "School of thought". If you really want to see the truth, You must enter the narrow gate, the front door and climb not through the window, for there are many who takes the short cut! for there are many on that road, and the path is broad.

PS. I never have read the Tim Lehaye, the Hal Lindsey, or any of the those type of guys stories or books on the End Times events.
But i know the different kinds of labels of ?eschatology".

postmillennial.......more than 1 view of this event many have different out comes of this view
amillennial..... more than 1 kind of this event, many have a different out comes of amil.
premillennial..........many kinds of views concerning this event too, Some call it the second coming, some the secret appearing, some, the Meeting Him in the AIR he is not back upon the earth yet, until we meet Him in the air and go back to heaven with Him for the ceremony, then we the Body of Christ comes back to earth to rule the Millennium Kingdom for a Thousand years ruling from the New Jerusalem in the sky. Glorified Bodies. Ruling from The Sky. and how we do that, i don't know. For we are different creatures than what we were before. But we will return riding "white Horses" And we will rule, And the Government will be upon His Shoulders. For we are a "Kingdom of kings and priests". for He is "The King of all kings', LORD of all Lords" You see i believe what the WORD has said. I ain't no christian, but i am a "son of the Living GOD"! and I am a big enough fool to believe it!
preterism...........mix views on this one too.

Admon Mikha'el said:

Wow...That dog looks like a group of Christians discussing the timing of the Rapture!

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Sue D. said:

God's Word does Not change -- and, yes, We need to be reading and learning From God's Word all the time. Society wants to 'adjust' God's Word to fit their desires -- not have their desires change to agree with God's Word. That is what I was saying.

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Try one more time,, Gods word does not change, they way we see it will change as we mature,,,, is what the whole topic Reba was speaking of, you seem to want to just shoot things down quickly, she was posting to try to unite us, we are on the same team, do not be so defensive it is ok if we disagree about thing and are respectull and loving towards one another, Happy Easter

Admon Mikha'el said:

The word 'rapture' is in the bible...In Greek. έκσταση ékstasi

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I too would like to know where this word is in scripture please.

Meanwhile I did a search, the definition from the Greek appears to mean...

Strong’s Definitions
ἔκστασις ékstasis, ek'-stas-is; from G1839; a displacement of the mind, i.e. bewilderment, "ecstasy":—+ be amazed, amazement, astonishment, trance.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 7x
The KJV translates Strong's G1611 in the following manner: trance (3x), be amazed (with G3083) (2x), amazement (1x), astonishment (1x)

The Greek word is used 7 times in the KJV

Further details from THAYERS GREEK LEXICON...

STRONGS NT 1611: ἔκστασις
ἔκστασις, -εως, ἡ, (ἐξίστημι);
1. universally, in Greek writing, any casting down of a thing from its proper place or state; displacement (Aristotle, Plutarch).
2. a throwing of the mind out of its normal state, alienation of mind, whether such as makes a lunatic (διανοίας, Deuteronomy 28:28; τῶν λογισμῶν, Plutarch, Sol. 8), or that of the man who by some sudden emotion is transported as it were out of himself, so that in this rapt condition, although he is awake, his mind is so drawn off from all surrounding objects and wholly fixed on things divine that he sees nothing but the forms and images lying within, and thinks that he perceives with his bodily eyes and ears realities shown him by God, (Philo, quis rerum divin. heres § 53 [cf. 51; B. D. under the word Trance; Delitzsch, Psychol. 5:5]): ἐπέπεσεν [Rec., others ἐγένετο] ἐπ’ αὐτὸν ἔκστασις, Acts 10:10; εἶδεν ἐν ἐκστάσει ὅραμα, Acts 11:5; γενέσθαι ἐν ἐκστάσει, Acts 22:17, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2f.
3. In the O. T. and the New amazement [cf. Longinus, 1, 4; Stobaeus, flor. tit. 104, 7], the state of one who, either owing to the importance or the novelty of an event, is thrown into a state of blended fear and wonder: εἶχεν αὐτὸς τρόμος καὶ ἔκστασις, Mark 16:8; ἐξέστησαν ἐκστάσει μεγάλη, Mark 5:42 (Ezekiel 26:16); ἔκστασις ἔλαβεν ἅπαντας, Luke 5:26; ἐπλήσθησαν θάμβους κ. ἐκστάσεως, Acts 3:10; (for חֲרָדָה, trembling, Genesis 27:33; 1 Samuel 14:15, etc.; פַּחַד, fear, 2 Chronicles 14:14, etc.).
THAYER’S GREEK LEXICON

Further reading would be required.

This reply is based on the question raised, not the thread topic.

Shalom

Dogmatic teachings on matters the church is divided over, i.e. timing of rapture, timing of HIS coming, millenium, day of the Lord, are not what Jesus commanded HIS disciples to teach. Jesus told his disciples to teach the nations all that HE commanded. All the apostles were taught by Jesus. Therefore, follow Jesus.

Brother-Paul said:

I too would like to know where this word is in scripture please.

Meanwhile I did a search, the definition from the Greek appears to mean...

Strong’s Definitions
ἔκστασις ékstasis, ek'-stas-is; from G1839; a displacement of the mind, i.e. bewilderment, "ecstasy":—+ be amazed, amazement, astonishment, trance.
KJV Translation Count — Total: 7x
The KJV translates Strong's G1611 in the following manner: trance (3x), be amazed (with G3083) (2x), amazement (1x), astonishment (1x)

The Greek word is used 7 times in the KJV

Further details from THAYERS GREEK LEXICON...

STRONGS NT 1611: ἔκστασις
ἔκστασις, -εως, ἡ, (ἐξίστημι);
1. universally, in Greek writing, any casting down of a thing from its proper place or state; displacement (Aristotle, Plutarch).
2. a throwing of the mind out of its normal state, alienation of mind, whether such as makes a lunatic (διανοίας, Deuteronomy 28:28; τῶν λογισμῶν, Plutarch, Sol. 8), or that of the man who by some sudden emotion is transported as it were out of himself, so that in this rapt condition, although he is awake, his mind is so drawn off from all surrounding objects and wholly fixed on things divine that he sees nothing but the forms and images lying within, and thinks that he perceives with his bodily eyes and ears realities shown him by God, (Philo, quis rerum divin. heres § 53 [cf. 51; B. D. under the word Trance; Delitzsch, Psychol. 5:5]): ἐπέπεσεν [Rec., others ἐγένετο] ἐπ’ αὐτὸν ἔκστασις, Acts 10:10; εἶδεν ἐν ἐκστάσει ὅραμα, Acts 11:5; γενέσθαι ἐν ἐκστάσει, Acts 22:17, cf. 2 Corinthians 12:2f.
3. In the O. T. and the New amazement [cf. Longinus, 1, 4; Stobaeus, flor. tit. 104, 7], the state of one who, either owing to the importance or the novelty of an event, is thrown into a state of blended fear and wonder: εἶχεν αὐτὸς τρόμος καὶ ἔκστασις, Mark 16:8; ἐξέστησαν ἐκστάσει μεγάλη, Mark 5:42 (Ezekiel 26:16); ἔκστασις ἔλαβεν ἅπαντας, Luke 5:26; ἐπλήσθησαν θάμβους κ. ἐκστάσεως, Acts 3:10; (for חֲרָדָה, trembling, Genesis 27:33; 1 Samuel 14:15, etc.; פַּחַד, fear, 2 Chronicles 14:14, etc.).
THAYER’S GREEK LEXICON

Further reading would be required.

This reply is based on the question raised, not the thread topic.

Shalom

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My friend...I'm afraid you'll have to find it yourself today....I'm in no condition to have any conversation with anyone...including my beloved Lady.

There is a principle

Which is a bar against all information

Which is proof against all argument

And which cannot fail to keep men in everlasting ignorance.

That principle is condemnation before investigation.

Edmund Spencer

Reba1 said:

After years of believing rapture as generally taught , scripture reads differently today. I know too many God loving, Bible believing Christians that believe the 'general rapture' dogma to label it a false doctrine. Misguided doctrine maybe but 'false' is a harsh word. To me it is sorta like baptizing babies , sprinkle or dunk, Grape juice or wine.

I think it is so cool God wrote His Word in such a fashion we can see different ideals . Different understandings. While we are still one body.

Yes i know there are those who go off the deep end but i hope i am speaking to members of HIs Body

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You speak well . For God understands people better than people do.

It is like working on the Sabbath. If you see a ram who's horns are stuck, would you not help him.

And if you see someone hungry, would you not feed them.

Claiming to be born again has no merit, it is where your heart is at that God sees. You may not be praised by mankind, but you will be praised by God

Sue D. said:

God's Word does Not change -- and, yes, We need to be reading and learning From God's Word all the time. Society wants to 'adjust' God's Word to fit their desires -- not have their desires change to agree with God's Word. That is what I was saying.

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Where in God's Word will you find the passage about a block of snow on your house. Yet it will take place just as i have described.

What scripture did Peter use to know it was ok for him to get out of the boat ?

What Scripture did Abraham use to know it was ok to challenge God?

Sue you live in a world of confirmation theology. God didn't give us His Word as a means to confirm , He gave us His Word as an example of faith. To believe in God without a confirmation.

Confirmation faith is for children . You are an adult , be an adult in your faith too.

Bill said:

Where in God's Word will you find the passage about a block of snow on your house. Yet it will take place just as i have described.

What scripture did Peter use to know it was ok for him to get out of the boat ?

What Scripture did Abraham use to know it was ok to challenge God?

Sue you live in a world of confirmation theology. God didn't give us His Word as a means to confirm , He gave us His Word as an example of faith. To believe in God without a confirmation.

Confirmation faith is for children . You are an adult , be an adult in your faith too.

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Abraham used covenant in his debate with God..He had a right to do that....God and he made a covenant and Abraham was holding God to covenant... Peter used the Word of God in getting out of the boat. Our faith is based on Gods Word and nothing else....Our experience in using Gods Word, or rather trusting in Gods Word makes our faith stronger....Faith is ALL Word based.

JerryfromMass said:

Dogmatic teachings on matters the church is divided over, i.e. timing of rapture, timing of HIS coming, millenium, day of the Lord, are not what Jesus commanded HIS disciples to teach. Jesus told his disciples to teach the nations all that HE commanded. All the apostles were taught by Jesus. Therefore, follow Jesus.

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God's Word gives us information on all of those topics that you listed for a reason. For our information.

And, yes, the Gospel unto salvation Is the most important teaching. And we Are to share That with whomever is willing to listen.

And all the rest of Scripture is as inspired as That is.

We Are to be growing in grace and Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ // His Word to us.

The word 'rapture' is not found in Scripture -- but it Is described in 1 Thess. 4 :16 -18.

Sue D. said:

The word 'rapture' is not found in Scripture -- but it Is described in 1 Thess. 4 :16 -18.

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There is an entire dictionary full of words that are not in the bible....What is this argument for anyway?! The bible speaks of the believers being "Caught up" Rapture means 'caught up' Its just another translation of the word "Harpazo" Can we talk about some Word now?

Dave M said:

Try one more time,, Gods word does not change, they way we see it will change as we mature,,,, is what the whole topic Reba was speaking of, you seem to want to just shoot things down quickly, she was posting to try to unite us, we are on the same team, do not be so defensive it is ok if we disagree about thing and are respectull and loving towards one another, Happy Easter

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You're referring to the comment / challenging that Reba1 was doing concerning the household of Lydia in posts 61 and following // if there were children and/ or babies in her household. And then the question of age of accountability was introduced. And the fact that Scripture doesn't say -- she acknowledged that. Apparently her thought is that if there's no river to dunk in, then it doesn't matter the method Of. How was her landing on that topic being a uniting factor?

I don't see me as shooting down Anything quickly. "Downunder' and I were simply pointing out Scripture -- apparently we weren't giving her the answer she wanted. Biblical baptism is that of by immersion by a person old enough to understand right from wrong and articulate their having accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

So -- @Reba1 -- what response are you looking for in relation to Lydia's household / age of accountability / whether or not there were children / babies in her household. Since you apparently agree that Scripture doesn't say specifically the ages of anyone in her household.

Sue D. said:

So -- @Reba1 -- what response are you looking for in relation to Lydia's household / age of accountability / whether or not there were children / babies in her household. Since you apparently agree that Scripture doesn't say specifically the ages of anyone in her household.

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Simply looking for a direct answer, the opinion of those questioned . Do we know there was or was not children or babies in Lydia's household?

Sue D. said:

....

I don't see me as shooting down Anything quickly. "Downunder' and I were simply pointing out Scripture -- apparently we weren't giving her the answer she wanted. Biblical baptism is that of by immersion by a person old enough to understand right from wrong and articulate their having accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

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The question was not answered . And is still being avoided.

Reba1 said:

Do we know there was or was not children or babies in Lydia's household?

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OK there were no babies and infants in Lydia's household - they are neither identified nor referred to.
To assume their presence is speculation.

Admon Mikha'el said:

Abraham used covenant in his debate with God..He had a right to do that....God and he made a covenant and Abraham was holding God to covenant... Peter used the Word of God in getting out of the boat. Our faith is based on Gods Word and nothing else....Our experience in using Gods Word, or rather trusting in Gods Word makes our faith stronger....Faith is ALL Word based.

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Show me the passage that made it alright for Peter to walk on the water. Remember, at this time Peter did not know Jesus was the Messiah.

Bill said:

Show me the passage that made it alright for Peter to walk on the water. Remember, at this time Peter did not know Jesus was the Messiah.

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Matthew 14:28-33 (CJB)
28 Then Kefa called to him, “Lord, if it is really you, tell me to come to you on the water.” 29 “Come!” he said (Jesus). So Kefa got out of the boat and walked on the water toward Yeshua. 30 But when he saw the wind, he became afraid; and as he began to sink, he yelled, “Lord! Save me!” 31 Yeshua immediately stretched out his hand, took hold of him, and said to him, “Such little trust! Why did you doubt?” 32 As they went up into the boat, the wind ceased. 33 The men in the boat fell down before him and exclaimed, “You really are God’s son!”

So Peter climbed out of the boat at Jesus' Word...That was his authority to do so. But you already knew that.

Bill said:

Show me the passage that made it alright for Peter to walk on the water. Remember, at this time Peter did not know Jesus was the Messiah.

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You asked for the passage -- look at Matthew 14: 22 - 32 esp vs 28 and 29 and 30 and 31.