Baptism in the Holy Spirit : revisited

B-A-C · May 27, 2020

This has been talked about before here, but recent threads have reminded me about it again.

Some denominations believe you either have the Holy Spirit, or you don't. Virtually all Pentecostal denominations believe in two separate events.
1. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit
2. The "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

Keep in mind here, that if they are one and the same event, that means nobody in the Bible received the Holy Spirit when they first believed.
John the Baptist is kind of a special case. He always had the Holy Spirit from birth. ( Luke 1:15; )
But everyone else received it sometime after they had been saved for a period of time.

For a long time, no one received the Holy Spirit at all.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

Jesus said the Holy Spirit couldn't come, unless He went away. The Holy Spirit wasn't given to the church yet, not even the apostles.
John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

But Jesus promised it would come in the future.
Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

Even John the Baptist knew there was a difference between being baptized in water, and being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Matt 3:11; "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8; "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
Luke 3:16; John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

John the Baptist could baptize people in water, but only Jesus could baptize people in the Holy Spirit.

The first instance of people receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit was in the upper room on the day of Pentecost.
The was 50 days after the passover when Jesus was crucified, about 7 days after the last time Jesus was seen on the earth. (He walked the earth 40 days after His resurrection)
Add 3 days Jesus was 'in the tomb', and you get 50 days.

Acts 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Peter says this was prophesied to happen in the Book of Joel ( Joel 2:28-29; )
Acts 2:16; but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

Keep in mind there was 120 people in the upper room here. ( Acts 1:15; ) including all the apostles. And even though they had been following Jesus for the last 3 years. None of them had been baptized
in the Holy Spirit until Acts chapter 2.

In Acts 8 there was a group of Samaritans that had already been baptized in water some time back. But they hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet.
Acts 8:14; Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent them Peter and John,
Acts 8:15; who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16; For He had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 8:17; Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit.

So even though they had been believers for a while, and had already been baptized in water. They hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet.

Then we have Cornelius, an Italian (Gentile) who had also been a believer for a while. A devout man who prayed a lot.
Acts 10:1; Now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort,
Acts 10:2; a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, and gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.

But even though he had been a believer for a while, he hadn't received the baptism of the Holy Spirit yet. 40 verses later he meets Peter.

Acts 10:44; While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
Acts 10:45; All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
Acts 10:46; For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,
Acts 10:47; "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"
Acts 10:48; And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

Cornelius and his family did things in a slightly different order than most. They were baptized in the Holy Spirit, and then they were baptized in water after this.
I suppose the order doesn't matter that much.

... to be continued ...

B-A-C · May 27, 2020

Paul is going through Corinth and he meets some 'disciples' from Ephesus. ( 'about' twelve men)

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Again these men had been believers for a while, they had already been baptized in water some time back. But they hadn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
They didn't know there was a Holy Spirit. (seemingly like many in the church today)

The Bible seems to say there are a couple of conditions to receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

It seems we need to obey God (duh). But also we need to ask for it. Specifically ask for the Holy Spirit, not just assume you already have been baptized by it.
Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Also we have Paul himself.... of course Paul wasn't always a believer. He was a Pharisee named Saul that persecuted Christians. He met Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 9:3; As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Acts 9:7; The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Acts 9:8; Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

So Paul meets Jesus, gets blinded for three days, (in fact he doesn't eat or drink for 3 days) so even though he is now following Jesus, he hasn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
After all this he meets Ananias.
Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

I'm sure Paul appreciated being able to see again (I know I would) but the important thing is, he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit here. Not on the road to Damascus.

So we have at least 5 instances here (I know of at least 1 more) of people who had been believers for some period of time, and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit later.

One of (not the only thing) the things the Holy Spirit gives us is gifts of power.
1Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Now it mentions several different kinds of gifts here. Bit notice is says here... "all" persons. The Holy Spirit distributes "to each one" at least one of these gifts.
Do you know what your gift is? Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Have you asked God for it? Everyone has at least one gift. ( I know what mine are ).

Dave M · May 27, 2020

they should do this teaching at every church that says,, "say this prayer and be saved", I guess you have to start somewhere, but they give a false assurance of salvation when they say just pray this and be saved, or give the impression you are saved by saying a simple prayer

I had a freind recently I was telling him to get serious about God, and he said something in the lines of "Im good I walked down the isle at the call and said the prayer""

Isn't receiving the Holly Spirit the same thing as being born again???

I have been a so called "Chirsitain" all my life, but I never got changed until around 2015- 2016 and then my gift start producing fruit, and has been increasing fruit every year, all Glory to Christ, but when I look at it, it is a miracle for sure, because I would of never thought possible what Christ does through me, I say this humbly and with excitement. I share this for encouragement not for any attention, towards me,, but to Christ Jesus.

Brad Huber · May 27, 2020

Luke 3:16 says Baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire. Think on this, baptism means to be immersed in either water or the Holy Spirit. How many christians do you know, that barely know how the Holy Spirit helps them in this life? Utilizes the Holy Spirit daily in their life? Immerses themselves in the Holy Spirit? Perhaps I just see things the way Elijah sees, thinking not many. I could be wrong, but to me it seems people are afraid of being changed by immersion of the Holy Spirit, they want to be saved, but they dont want to change all that much.

And then fire, fire burns through the chaff, taking away slowly the things that tie us to this world that is apart from spiritually good things. People dont want that either. Just save us Jesus, and then leave us alone till its time to go to heaven. But fire burns, it hurts, but.... it purifies as well. Do you or anyone want to be immersed into fire? Most people dont, even if they say they do. I say, Lord punish me like a Good father when I stray, lead me down dark paths if need be for your names sake. Do I look forward to that fire burning away at me? NO! But I am thankful that God loves me so much that he disciplines me with the fire I am immersed in. I know He will be right there with me, holding me, keeping me from falling, loving me. God is a good Father, will you allow yourselfs to be good sons and daughters, will you allow yourselves to be immersed in the Holy Spirit and Fire?

B-A-C · May 27, 2020

Dave M said:
they should do this teaching at every church

Brad Huber said:
How many christians do you know, that barely know how the Holy Spirit helps them in this life? Utilizes the Holy Spirit daily in their life? Immerses themselves in the Holy Spirit?

Everyone I know who calls themselves a Christians says they have the Holy Spirit, Mormons, Universalists, Jehovah Witnesses, Christ-Scientists, and even New Age Christians.
A while back I visited a 'mens group' at another church. I won't mention the denomination other than to say they are a mainstream protestant denomination...
One of the associate pastors was a woman, she was there (yes, at a men's group) she usually dressed modestly on Sunday morning, but she had a very short skirt on this day.
Some of the men were telling questionable jokes, not the young men, but even 'the elders' in the church. The Bible says our spirit bears witness to the Spirit.
This must be true, because I can tell you, my spirit definitely wasn't bearing witness with the men in this church that day.
I sat through the whole thing (I didn't have much choice, I rode with a friend) but when it was over I mentioned these things to my friend. His comment was "oh they have the Holy Spirit,
it's not always like this, you just caught us on a bad day". You think I would be smarter, but I let him talk me into visiting again. It was exactly the same as the first time, short skirt and all.
My spirit was bearing witness to me again, even stronger this time. I was smarter in one way, I drove myself this time. I made it through about 20 minutes and then I left in the middle of
everything. I told my friend later I couldn't go back. I invited him to my churches men's group, but he never came.

Dave M · May 27, 2020

So how do you get immersed in the Holly Spirit?? I do not remember a exact time or moment, but I do remember things that were normal for me that suddenly became a issue for me. For example I had a urge soon after leaving the catholic church to throw away every single Crucifixion in my house, along with rosemary beads and anything to do with the catholic religion. I remember like yesterday the day I was standing in line for confession at a catholic church, and finally said this is not right, and left and got home and prayed the most I had ever prayed.

do you guys remember a exact moment?? I think if I had to give a exact moment it would that time in confession line when I left, then little by little change and then I look back and go wow, thank you Jesus !!

B-A-C · May 27, 2020

Dave M said:
do you guys remember a exact moment??

I do. For me it was speaking in tongues the first time, but don't get me wrong, I don't think it is this way for everyone. It was a small church in Long Beach Calif.
I couldn't tell you the date. But I remember the place, who was there. It was summer.

B-A-C · May 27, 2020

Dave M said:
Isn't receiving the Holly Spirit the same thing as being born again???

This is a subject of much debate. In general most Calvinistic denominations would say yes. But they would also say this happens the instant you get saved.
(Even though it didn't happen that way in the five examples above) In fact, there is no where in the Bible it says it happens at the same time. I believe it's possible they could happen
at the same time, but not usually the case.

Pentecostals will say no. The believe you receive the 'indwelling' of the Holy Spirit when you get saved. But you don't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until sometime later
(like the 5 examples above). I like how Brad put it.. immersed. Some churches do baptism by sprinkling a little water on you. Some churches drown you in lake. (that's supposed to be a joke)
Some people have just enough Holy Spirit, but others are covered, smothered, and soaked in it. These are the ones with the power gifts, healing, prophecy, miracles and such.
Virtually all Pentecostals will say you can be saved without being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Take the five examples above, what if say.. anyone of the people above was a believer who was baptized in water (it seems that is everyone in the examples above)
but then something happened, and they died before they got baptized in the Holy Spirit. Does that mean they weren't saved? Pentecostals would say no.

Trevor · May 27, 2020

I can't say I've been baptised in the Spirit but I have been so filled that I've had to ask the Lord to let up. This happened when I was reading the Word in fellowship. I was so filled I couldn't get the words out. That has happened to me on several occasions. Other times I have been moved in the Spirit when witnessing the gospel to people and have felt confident because of God's presence to tell them that God was aware of them and our conversation had God's approval. I live for those times.

Brad Huber · May 27, 2020

My baptism of the Holy Spirit did not happen at the time of being saved. I was saved at 17. Basically, when the gifts of the Holy Spirit which can be found in scripture start showing up and you start using them, that imo is when you are immersed and baptised in the Holy Spirit. That didnt happen to me till about my late 20's. I basically wanted more than the christian life I was living, i wanted it to be more real, like the men and women who changed the world because of their faith. I was ashamed that I had spent so much of my life living for this world, gaining more money, more things, wanting God to bless me, grudingly going to church, because they also didnt seem to be alive in their faith. I went to many different christian faiths, and I can tell you from experience that denomination doesnt follow that much for one being more right than another. They all adhered to many traditions that are man made, and they all said they followed scripture, but it was their interpretation of it. They had faith, make no doubt, but it was faith in Jesus to save them, and to try to encourage others to either join or bolster their faith. This isnt a terrible thing mind you, but they had no desire to encourage ppl to find their gift of the Holy Spirit and to use it IN that church. Thats what many of the gifts are given for, the parable of the talents speaks of it(although it speaks of several venues, both monetarily and spiritual gifts and ppl you lead to the Lord), for building up the church. But they have traditions to build the church, not the same thing. As to the churchs that emphasize Holy Spirit growth, they often let their emotions carry themselves away to let passion rear up and cause division with extra marital affairs. Also some think tongues must be spoken before you are accepted as baptized in the Holy Spirit. And sometimes there has been much disorder for the sake of freedom of the Holy Spirit to move in church, when sometimes its merely passion at loving the Lord, and wanting to express it verbally and loudly. And they often think that if laying on of hands doesnt heal someone, that the person's faith is at fault somehow. If I have spoken in tongues, its was while being alone and praising God, and wasnt aware of it, but I do have many gifts of the Holy Spirit. What I have is not important as what I am strongest in, those are the ones I use the most and serve me and the Lord most. One is found in 1 cor 12:9 , and its a greater faith, simply because I see my faith as so much more important than with most. Faith, things believed in without physical evidence. It is strong in me. The other is discernment, in the next verse 10. I have a strong normal discernment that grew in me from small child, before I was a christian, I could see spirits sometimes, or at least sense them and whether they were good or bad. After I became a christian, it got a little better, after baptism in the Holy Spirit it blossomed to where it was increased even more. I was overseas in the Air Force when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I asked to be baptized again with water and that God would bless me with the baptism of the Holy Spirit to guide me better in following Him and being a better son. I got new gifts as I began using them, again, just like the parable of the talents.

And when I say a greater faith, I do not brag, its God's gift, I didnt work to get it. But I see most arguing here over things that could easily be interpreted in different ways, like the jews did in the days of Jesus on earth. I usually sigh and ignore them, ppl just dont seem to be able to say, I am not sure, I will just ponder them until the day Jesus explains it to me, either in person or the Holy Spirit. They have to make sure others see that they are right, even if God is not motivating them to through the Holy Spirit. You both are better at avoiding this than many, but without all the arguments, the site would be so slow that ppl would leave. So I put up with all the useless arguing because of the gems that get through (topics that touch my spirit), and encourage my soul.

Born Again 2004 · May 30, 2020

Dave M said:
So how do you get immersed in the Holly Spirit?? I do not remember a exact time or moment, but I do remember things that were normal for me that suddenly became a issue for me. For example I had a urge soon after leaving the catholic church to throw away every single Crucifixion in my house, along with rosemary beads and anything to do with the catholic religion. I remember like yesterday the day I was standing in line for confession at a catholic church, and finally said this is not right, and left and got home and prayed the most I had ever prayed.

do you guys remember a exact moment?? I think if I had to give a exact moment it would that time in confession line when I left, then little by little change and then I look back and go wow, thank you Jesus !!

I remember the exact moment..I cried...I never cried. When I am attacked or I have doubt, I go back to that time
when I first believed and I am instantly healed!

Bill · May 30, 2020

B-A-C said:
Paul is going through Corinth and he meets some 'disciples' from Ephesus. ( 'about' twelve men)

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Again these men had been believers for a while, they had already been baptized in water some time back. But they hadn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
They didn't know there was a Holy Spirit. (seemingly like many in the church today)

The Bible seems to say there are a couple of conditions to receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

It seems we need to obey God (duh). But also we need to ask for it. Specifically ask for the Holy Spirit, not just assume you already have been baptized by it.
Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Also we have Paul himself.... of course Paul wasn't always a believer. He was a Pharisee named Saul that persecuted Christians. He met Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 9:3; As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Acts 9:7; The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Acts 9:8; Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

So Paul meets Jesus, gets blinded for three days, (in fact he doesn't eat or drink for 3 days) so even though he is now following Jesus, he hasn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
After all this he meets Ananias.
Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

I'm sure Paul appreciated being able to see again (I know I would) but the important thing is, he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit here. Not on the road to Damascus.

So we have at least 5 instances here (I know of at least 1 more) of people who had been believers for some period of time, and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit later.

One of (not the only thing) the things the Holy Spirit gives us is gifts of power.
1Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Now it mentions several different kinds of gifts here. Bit notice is says here... "all" persons. The Holy Spirit distributes "to each one" at least one of these gifts.
Do you know what your gift is? Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Have you asked God for it? Everyone has at least one gift. ( I know what mine are ).

Something i have pondered a long time . The difference between when the Apostles were SENT by Jesus into the towns . He gave them authority to heal and cast out demons .

The Apostles after Penticost recieved (again ) those Gifts along with others . But there IS a difference .

To me the main difference was recieving the Authority .

Before they were Sent and did as instructed . But after Penticost , THIS Baptism is with Authority ( and Power ) .

I just thought it interesting

Bill · May 30, 2020

Trevor said:
I can't say I've been baptised in the Spirit but I have been so filled that I've had to ask the Lord to let up. This happened when I was reading the Word in fellowship. I was so filled I couldn't get the words out. That has happened to me on several occasions. Other times I have been moved in the Spirit when witnessing the gospel to people and have felt confident because of God's presence to tell them that God was aware of them and our conversation had God's approval. I live for those times.

Your Baptism came from God

Bill · May 30, 2020

Born Again 2004 said:
I remember the exact moment..I cried...I never cried. When I am attacked or I have doubt, I go back to that time
when I first believed and I am instantly healed!

I am happy for you . You have found the heart of God

Bill · May 30, 2020

Brad Huber said:
My baptism of the Holy Spirit did not happen at the time of being saved. I was saved at 17. Basically, when the gifts of the Holy Spirit which can be found in scripture start showing up and you start using them, that imo is when you are immersed and baptised in the Holy Spirit. That didnt happen to me till about my late 20's. I basically wanted more than the christian life I was living, i wanted it to be more real, like the men and women who changed the world because of their faith. I was ashamed that I had spent so much of my life living for this world, gaining more money, more things, wanting God to bless me, grudingly going to church, because they also didnt seem to be alive in their faith. I went to many different christian faiths, and I can tell you from experience that denomination doesnt follow that much for one being more right than another. They all adhered to many traditions that are man made, and they all said they followed scripture, but it was their interpretation of it. They had faith, make no doubt, but it was faith in Jesus to save them, and to try to encourage others to either join or bolster their faith. This isnt a terrible thing mind you, but they had no desire to encourage ppl to find their gift of the Holy Spirit and to use it IN that church. Thats what many of the gifts are given for, the parable of the talents speaks of it(although it speaks of several venues, both monetarily and spiritual gifts and ppl you lead to the Lord), for building up the church. But they have traditions to build the church, not the same thing. As to the churchs that emphasize Holy Spirit growth, they often let their emotions carry themselves away to let passion rear up and cause division with extra marital affairs. Also some think tongues must be spoken before you are accepted as baptized in the Holy Spirit. And sometimes there has been much disorder for the sake of freedom of the Holy Spirit to move in church, when sometimes its merely passion at loving the Lord, and wanting to express it verbally and loudly. And they often think that if laying on of hands doesnt heal someone, that the person's faith is at fault somehow. If I have spoken in tongues, its was while being alone and praising God, and wasnt aware of it, but I do have many gifts of the Holy Spirit. What I have is not important as what I am strongest in, those are the ones I use the most and serve me and the Lord most. One is found in 1 cor 12:9 , and its a greater faith, simply because I see my faith as so much more important than with most. Faith, things believed in without physical evidence. It is strong in me. The other is discernment, in the next verse 10. I have a strong normal discernment that grew in me from small child, before I was a christian, I could see spirits sometimes, or at least sense them and whether they were good or bad. After I became a christian, it got a little better, after baptism in the Holy Spirit it blossomed to where it was increased even more. I was overseas in the Air Force when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I asked to be baptized again with water and that God would bless me with the baptism of the Holy Spirit to guide me better in following Him and being a better son. I got new gifts as I began using them, again, just like the parable of the talents.

And when I say a greater faith, I do not brag, its God's gift, I didnt work to get it. But I see most arguing here over things that could easily be interpreted in different ways, like the jews did in the days of Jesus on earth. I usually sigh and ignore them, ppl just dont seem to be able to say, I am not sure, I will just ponder them until the day Jesus explains it to me, either in person or the Holy Spirit. They have to make sure others see that they are right, even if God is not motivating them to through the Holy Spirit. You both are better at avoiding this than many, but without all the arguments, the site would be so slow that ppl would leave. So I put up with all the useless arguing because of the gems that get through (topics that touch my spirit), and encourage my soul.

God works in many ways . And we dont always see God's movement because we only see what God does for us . Then we see others , maybe not so excited as we are , or not so filled as we are , and think , well that church doesnt have what i have . Lol

Gods ways are not ours .

There is something to be said for the one who only kneels and prays all day long . Certainly it isnt something many would want to do . But let us not begrudge them, for that Gift , to be called to prayer is very needed.

Every church has its purpose in God

Let us love one another in Jesus .

Remember Jesus words , love your nieghbor as yourself .

Bill · May 30, 2020

B-A-C said:
This is a subject of much debate. In general most Calvinistic denominations would say yes. But they would also say this happens the instant you get saved.
(Even though it didn't happen that way in the five examples above) In fact, there is no where in the Bible it says it happens at the same time. I believe it's possible they could happen
at the same time, but not usually the case.

Pentecostals will say no. The believe you receive the 'indwelling' of the Holy Spirit when you get saved. But you don't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until sometime later
(like the 5 examples above). I like how Brad put it.. immersed. Some churches do baptism by sprinkling a little water on you. Some churches drown you in lake. (that's supposed to be a joke)
Some people have just enough Holy Spirit, but others are covered, smothered, and soaked in it. These are the ones with the power gifts, healing, prophecy, miracles and such.
Virtually all Pentecostals will say you can be saved without being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

Take the five examples above, what if say.. anyone of the people above was a believer who was baptized in water (it seems that is everyone in the examples above)
but then something happened, and they died before they got baptized in the Holy Spirit. Does that mean they weren't saved? Pentecostals would say no.

I think as far as Baptism goes . The Water and the Holy Spirit Baptisms are definitely two different things . But it is possible ( as all things are possible in God ) to recieve both at the same time , and to recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit before the Water Baptism

Bill · May 30, 2020

B-A-C said:
Paul is going through Corinth and he meets some 'disciples' from Ephesus. ( 'about' twelve men)

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Again these men had been believers for a while, they had already been baptized in water some time back. But they hadn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
They didn't know there was a Holy Spirit. (seemingly like many in the church today)

The Bible seems to say there are a couple of conditions to receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

It seems we need to obey God (duh). But also we need to ask for it. Specifically ask for the Holy Spirit, not just assume you already have been baptized by it.
Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Also we have Paul himself.... of course Paul wasn't always a believer. He was a Pharisee named Saul that persecuted Christians. He met Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 9:3; As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Acts 9:7; The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Acts 9:8; Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

So Paul meets Jesus, gets blinded for three days, (in fact he doesn't eat or drink for 3 days) so even though he is now following Jesus, he hasn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
After all this he meets Ananias.
Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

I'm sure Paul appreciated being able to see again (I know I would) but the important thing is, he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit here. Not on the road to Damascus.

So we have at least 5 instances here (I know of at least 1 more) of people who had been believers for some period of time, and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit later.

One of (not the only thing) the things the Holy Spirit gives us is gifts of power.
1Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Now it mentions several different kinds of gifts here. Bit notice is says here... "all" persons. The Holy Spirit distributes "to each one" at least one of these gifts.
Do you know what your gift is? Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Have you asked God for it? Everyone has at least one gift. ( I know what mine are ).

I must apologize my friend , as the possie that follows me only has the intention to cause mischief and may i dare say bring the devil into the fray .

This is a wonderful subject , and i could not resist commenting . May Gods love fill you always .

Born Again 2004 · May 31, 2020

Colossians 1:26-27
I don't fully understand this but I believe that this happens the very moment God gives you the gift of life and the power to believe because you acknowledged your sinful nature and belief in Jesus Christ.

Ivan Chamurliev · May 31, 2020

B-A-C said:
Paul is going through Corinth and he meets some 'disciples' from Ephesus. ( 'about' twelve men)

Acts 19:1; It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2; He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3; And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4; Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5; When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:6; And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.
Acts 19:7; There were in all about twelve men.

Again these men had been believers for a while, they had already been baptized in water some time back. But they hadn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
They didn't know there was a Holy Spirit. (seemingly like many in the church today)

The Bible seems to say there are a couple of conditions to receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

It seems we need to obey God (duh). But also we need to ask for it. Specifically ask for the Holy Spirit, not just assume you already have been baptized by it.
Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

Also we have Paul himself.... of course Paul wasn't always a believer. He was a Pharisee named Saul that persecuted Christians. He met Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Acts 9:3; As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him;
Acts 9:4; and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"
Acts 9:5; And he said, "Who are You, Lord?" And He said, "I am Jesus whom you are persecuting,
Acts 9:6; but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do."
Acts 9:7; The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.
Acts 9:8; Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:9; And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

So Paul meets Jesus, gets blinded for three days, (in fact he doesn't eat or drink for 3 days) so even though he is now following Jesus, he hasn't been baptized in the Holy Spirit yet.
After all this he meets Ananias.
Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

I'm sure Paul appreciated being able to see again (I know I would) but the important thing is, he received the baptism of the Holy Spirit here. Not on the road to Damascus.

So we have at least 5 instances here (I know of at least 1 more) of people who had been believers for some period of time, and then received the baptism of the Holy Spirit later.

One of (not the only thing) the things the Holy Spirit gives us is gifts of power.
1Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Now it mentions several different kinds of gifts here. Bit notice is says here... "all" persons. The Holy Spirit distributes "to each one" at least one of these gifts.
Do you know what your gift is? Have you been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Have you asked God for it? Everyone has at least one gift. ( I know what mine are ).

You made a nice comment about the Holy Spirit and His work in us.
I think the the Holy Spirit is a necessity for each believer. It is not an option. It is like a petrol for a car. It can not go without it. In fact the Bible gives an example of the virgins bringing oil with their lamps. Without oil they cannot give light and will get lost in the darkness of the world. Matthew 25:1-13
The Holy Spirit is the one giving us strength, guidance and capability to walk above the sin and above this world. This is how we can live the Christian life. Then obviously, there are different gifts and measures of faith. I do believe that there are people with more faith and dedication into it, but we definitely need to ask for it in our life.

Trevor · May 31, 2020

Ivan Chamurliev said:
You made a nice comment about the Holy Spirit and His work in us.
I think the the Holy Spirit is a necessity for each believer. It is not an option. It is like a petrol for a car. It can not go without it. In fact the Bible gives an example of the virgins bringing oil with their lamps. Without oil they cannot give light and will get lost in the darkness of the world. Matthew 25:1-13
The Holy Spirit is the one giving us strength, guidance and capability to walk above the sin and above this world. This is how we can live the Christian life. Then obviously, there are different gifts and measures of faith. I do believe that there are people with more faith and dedication into it, but we definitely need to ask for it in our life.

Amen.

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Baptism in the Holy Spirit : revisited

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