regibassman57 said:

@Wired 4 Fishen,
If you believe you are under the law I would agree with you that you sin.

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Never said anything like that

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Wow that's a lot of intellectual non sense.

The old Covenant Laws are the only laws we are not under However every single command in the NT is NT Law.

To say you can not miss the mark and sin because there is no mark to miss is saying you always do everything right and are perfect.
Sin is Anything you know is wrong but do it anyway.

How's your Love Walk?

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I could not have said that better!

if you notice the people in this thread some say they are perfect and sinless yet they accuse others. that is no way for a perfect sinless person to act. they expose themselves . Wonder why people cant make there point with out accusing or insulting other people very telling. I am guilty of also God forgive me

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

@Wired 4 Fishen,

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Wow that's a lot of intellectual non sense.

The old Covenant Laws are the only laws we are not under However every single command in the NT is NT Law.

To say you can not miss the mark and sin because there is no mark to miss is saying you always do everything right and are perfect.
Sin is Anything you know is wrong but do it anyway.

How's your Love Walk?

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The old covenant laws imputed sin to those believers in Israel. Israel missed the mark if they didn't keep even one of the commandments. We know Israel was justified by the law which told them they sinned. Show me in scripture where God or Jesus is imputing sin unto believers under the New Covenant?

James 2:9
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law:that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Jesus is not the minister of sin because He finished the work for sin (Dan.9:24).

Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Galatians 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Any believer that does not develop fruit is unfruitful. They don't sin but they transgress their own development in the character of Christ. Jesus is not imputing sin unto believers.

@Bendito,

Bendito said:

Two verses.....In the multitude of counsel there is wisdom...and In the multitude of counsel there is safety....Look at several versions and see which says it the same most. Know what I mean?

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This scripture you used applies to the flesh but not to the Spirit. In the Spirit the majority of believers will not be saved.

Luke 13:23
Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luke 13:24
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Wired 4 Fishen,

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Never said anything like that

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Everything you're saying suggest you believe you are justified or under the law; that's the only way you can sin. You in your own words are saying you are still under the schoolmaster because you are saying you sin. A person can only sin if they are under the law. You are either under Christ or the schoolmaster. Only the school master imputes sin.

I sent you the scriptures that told you, whatever the law says, it says to them that are "under" the law. You agree with this. If you are not under the law, the law cannot tell you that you've sinned. Grace is not imputing sin unto you because He has taken away your sins.

regibassman57 said:

Show me in scripture where God or Jesus is imputing sin unto believers under the New Covenant?

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How do you arrive at this conclusion from what I said?

regibassman57 said:

Everything you're saying suggest you believe you are justified or under the law; that's the only way you can sin

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This type of thinking has blinded you from the truth.

Wired 4 Fishen,

Wired 4 Fishen said:

How do you arrive at this conclusion from what I said?

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First, you cannot show me anywhere in scripture where God or Jesus is imputing sin unto believers... Yet you say you sin blindly without understanding. Who is blind and deceived?

Jesus told the Pharasees they were blind like you. I'll write you back and explain it to you.

Scripture teaches the "ONLY" way a person can have the knowledge or consciousness of sin is by the law (Rom. 3:20). The law tells those that are under it they sin (Rom. 3:19). If you transgress the law you sin (1Joh. 3:4). Because you admit you sin, all of these all apply to you. You are guilty of all the law.

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

@Wired 4 Fishen, @Dave, @Bendito,

In this sense Fishen, you are not blind by your own admission.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Who is the prince of this world that Jesus will cast out? Where is the prince of this world cast out of?

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, ye should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains.

Every person that confesses they sin are truly a sinner, still in their sins. This is because they don't believe Christ rose from the dead to remove their sins. If they are believers saying they sin, their faith is in vain. Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses every word is established.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

regibassman57 said:

First, you cannot show me anywhere in scripture where God or Jesus is imputing sin unto believers... Yet you say you sin blindly without understanding. Who is blind and deceived?

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There is a very simple reason why I can't. I have not once said any such thing.

regibassman57 said:

@Wired 4 Fishen, @Dave, @Bendito,

In this sense Fishen, you are not blind by your own admission.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Who is the prince of this world that Jesus will cast out? Where is the prince of this world cast out of?

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind, ye should have no sin: but now you say, We see; therefore your sin remains.

Every person that confesses they sin are truly a sinner, still in their sins. This is because they don't believe Christ rose from the dead to remove their sins. If they are believers saying they sin, their faith is in vain. Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses every word is established.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

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Please don't insult us by taking single bits of scripture and making them stand alone verses.

Its one thing to disagree but yet another to continue on claiming this or that was said when it was not.

Blessings

@Wired 4 Fishen, @Dave, @Bendito,

The problem is - you folks are consistently contradicting yourselves. You say you believe Jesus took away the sins of the world; then you say He didn’t because you still sin. You say Jesus saved you from your sins, then you say He didn’t. We can never get past the basics because you fellows continue to contradict these scriptures below. You are calling these beautiful ministers of the Gospel of Peace a liar - unintentionally. But because you can consciously read these scriptures, you are intentionally refusing to say what these scriptures say. This is intentional and these scriptures are the principle foundation of why Jesus came.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Wired 4 Fishen said:

There is a very simple reason why I can't. I have not once said any such thing.

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Are you saying you do not sin?

A sinner sins, a believer saved from sin does not.

Wired 4 Fishen said:

Please don't insult us by taking single bits of scripture and making them stand alone verses.

Its one thing to disagree but yet another to continue on claiming this or that was said when it was not.

Blessings

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The scriptures I present are in the context of our conversation. The thing you don't understand about God's word, is God word is "ONE" in Righteousness. If you are not walking in Righteousness God's word will reveal it because you are walking in darkness. If you are walking in darkness i can prove it through scripture. You are walking in darkness. It's not an insult, but it's the truth. Now you prove me wrong. if I'm using scripture incorrectly prove it. I know you cannot.

@Wired 4 Fishen,
Ever since I’ve been on this forum, I’ve tried to get certain members to answer this question and they “CANNOT” – maybe you can Fishen. Because they cannot answer the question I’ve gotten insults and other snide childish remarks, but the question has never been answered according to scripture.

Where in scripture does it teach that Jesus took away the punishment/penalty of sin but not sin?

This will clear up a lot… If you can’t answer this question, you should not say you sin. You know scriptures teach Jesus took away sins, so why would not say the contrary?

regibassman57 said:

you should not say you sin

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@regibassman57 the bible teaches us we need to repent when we sin, s. Only believers have advocate to intervene for us when we do sin with the father that is Jesus Christ. The cross saves us from he hold of sin and the hunger for sin, its us to us daily to choose the cross over the sin, as we become more mature in our walk we become sanctified and ever going on process until we get our glorified bodies.

The cross of Christ to a believer frees us from the HOLD of sin that once held us captive, before I was saved sin was my master and we could not get away. Our hearts our changed when born again, to hate sin instead of living in and loving sin. This is a sanctification process

Luke 13:3
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19
Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out,


Now in the below verse we believers are the only ones he calls my people
2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

We were once slaves to sin we are now free from that, thanks to Christ.

I know we do not agree on this topic, so let us BOTH please state our case be respectful each other. I am ok with you not seeing as I do. I hope you are ok with me not seeing as you do. You and I have been both guilty of name calling and what not, let seek common ground on the Love of Christ and be respectful of each other for our Lord and savior. I know he would not want to see us bickering like we have in the past so piece be with you.

@Dave,

Dave M said:

if you notice the people in this thread some say they are perfect and sinless yet they accuse others. that is no way for a perfect sinless person to act. they expose themselves . Wonder why people cant make there point with out accusing or insulting other people very telling. I am guilty of also God forgive me

1 John 1:8
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.

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Dave, as you told you earlier this month; I learned how to talk crazy about Christians on this forum because of you and your crew. I told you God checked me and I didn’t go any further. I am not insulting you or personally accusing you, but I am telling you what scripture says.

The only reason I say I am perfect from sin is because the Holy Ghost has told me in scripture. I have been made perfect from sin through the sanctification of the Holy Ghost.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we (believers) are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering Jesus hath “perfected for ever” them that are sanctified.

Every believer has been sanctified and perfected forever from sin. I’ve shown you in the past what the law could not do Jesus did (Rom. 8:3; Acts 13:39).

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Jesus is that better hope. Jesus came and took away sin perfecting believers from all sin.

You are not refusing me, but you are refusing what scripture says. I notice you don't know how to respond to this scriptures. The truth make us free. You and everyone that says you sin, have not been made free.

regibassman57 said:

@Wired 4 Fishen, @Dave, @Bendito,

The problem is - you folks are consistently contradicting yourselves. You say you believe Jesus took away the sins of the world; then you say He didn’t because you still sin. You say Jesus saved you from your sins, then you say He didn’t. We can never get past the basics because you fellows continue to contradict these scriptures below. You are calling these beautiful ministers of the Gospel of Peace a liar - unintentionally. But because you can consciously read these scriptures, you are intentionally refusing to say what these scriptures say. This is intentional and these scriptures are the principle foundation of why Jesus came.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which takes away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

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I really think somebody is spending too much time listening to povawige. Now the man has you all twisted up, and you don't know what to believe.

@Dave,

Dave M said:

@regibassman57 the bible teaches us we need to repent when we sin, s. Only believers have advocate to intervene for us when we do sin with the father that is Jesus Christ.

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Dave, Jesus is no longer the minister of sin; He finished the work of sin when He died and rose from the dead (Gal. 2:17, 18; Dan. 9:24). When God forgives a sinner once for all, He does it once. This is what sinners do when they believe Romans 10:9, 10 and 1John 1:9. Verse 1:9 teaches God is faithful to forgive you of “all” sins. For a Gentile sinner it’s from the sin of Adam that was imputed unto all men. For the sins of the Jews it’s the sin of Adam and the curse of the law imputed upon them by God through the Mosaic Law. All sins have been forgiven man when they first come to Jesus Christ. This is what Romans 3:24 is teaching as “past” sins.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Jesus purged your sins “one time” according to scripture when He died on the cross (Heb. 1:3). This tells me you don’t understand what Heb.10:1-4 is talking about. That’s not an insult but an observation according to your reply.

I have no problem with our disagreeing, but I’m not out to call you names and the other foolishness of words that insults.

Jesus said those that are righteous do not repent from sin. He didn’t say they didn’t have to repent from their works or actions, but the context is about sin. There is joy in Heaven over “one sinner” that repents. The just/righteous person (the believer) does not need to repent from sin. A believer repents from any character contrary to the righteous character of Christ; but not sin; “unfruitful works” (Mat. 13:17-23; Tit. 3:14).

Luk 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over “one sinner” that repents, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which “NEED NO REPENTANCE.”

The Righteous person is the believer, and the sinner is the sinner that needs to repent by coming to Christ and confessing they are a sinner. Dave, if you sin, you are still a slave to sin according to scripture. Only Satan can make you sin.

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.

You were the servants of sin past tense. You have to understand the principle of what Jesus did.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, you were free from righteousness.

If you sin you are still the servant of sin; which is the devil. You are not under Grace. At least you are not speaking like it.

1Jo 3:8 He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

It’s only through God’s Grace in you that Satan’s works are destroyed, but God’s Grace is sufficient unto you, that's why He is not imputing sin to you.