Once saved always saved???

[Chad]

Ok so what how does one become joined to the Lord? Is there any thing required to stay joined to the Lord?

I know this question is not for me, but perhaps I can provide a simplified version of an answer for this one.

We are joined to the Lord by accepting Him as Savior and Son of GOD through faith, by GOD's grace. We need to follow Him to remain in the Lord.

Mark 8:34-35
34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, “Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.

 

[spirit1st]

WE never lose salvation
He makes NEW CREATURES out of us. Perfect beings , with HIS mind and nature.

How could we fail HIm , When we are made as He is?
Not understanding the new man , new creature, inner man , inward man , hidden man !
All the same , our Spirit , once Born of GOD!
Our spirit longs to serve HIM perfectly and hates sin.

I could post a whole page of scripture showing the NEW CREATURE!

If our Lord over came all things! And He makes us just like our LORd! Then how could we do less than , over come????

The called do fail HIm.

The Elect cannot fail HIM.
1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

All flesh does fail HIm, And it all dies because of sin!

We must judge by the spirit , not the weak flesh!

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

He keeps us! We could not keep our selves!

Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

The good work is started , When we are BORN INTO HIS FAMILY AND household!

 

[Firstborn]

Just a Question, if our spiritual birth can be changed by our unbelief, what will stop us in heaven to not belief or turn against God. Satan did that in perfect conditions even Adam and Eve were in perfect conditions and sinned.

If our new spiritual being is not sinless and can sin, there is the possibility of sin in heaven again. Don’t you think that is why God send His son to create a spiritual birth, so that we can be like Him. We become children of Him.

You see those who are born of the spirit are begotten and not created like Satan, the angels and even Adam. When God created Adam He took dust, when we were born again He took of himself ( His seed, the Word) so that we can be spirit of His Spirit, and by this birth inherit His character not to sin.
That is why the old Adam (which is our natural body) must die. 1Co
15:44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. The spiritual birth is exclusive for humans, no angel or heavenly vessel can be born again, because they do not have a natural body, what a privilege. And we want to nullify or make the works that Jesus did for us cheap.
Be blessed
Niel. [/COLOR]

 

[JamesTangella]

Yes, First born...

You have quoted through word of God very clearly..

That is why the old Adam (which is our natural body) must die. 1Co
15:44.

Thank you.

 

[jiggyfly]

Acts 8:13-23
13* Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14*Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15*who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16*(for as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18*And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19*saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20*But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Here is a believer( Simon) and He is in sin?:shock:

posted by Spirit1st
WE never lose salvation
He makes NEW CREATURES out of us. Perfect beings , with HIS mind and nature.

How could we fail HIm , When we are made as He is?
Not understanding the new man , new creature, inner man , inward man , hidden man !
All the same , our Spirit , once Born of GOD!

Poster by Spirit1st
We must accept the gospel as Truth!
Then Ask HIm into our hearts as LORD and MASTER. He will not enter into us , unless we truly allow HIm to be ruler of our entire lives and being!
Many are not saved , Because they will not allow HIm , HIS proper place as LORD!

I am very curious to know what scriptures you use to support this statement.

Colossians1:21-23
21*And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22*in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23*if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

This scripture is contrary to your belief. Do you think Paul understood the new man?

 

[spirit1st]

I think Paul knew a lot, but HE also was still learning and growing in truth!
I do not think a life time is long enough to know all things!
That is why Paul got a thorn in the flesh.
Because, the more we know, the harder it is to have mercy on those who are carnal christains?
We tend to think everyone should see things the way we see them???
But the Truth is , the Holy Ghost must open our eyes to the meat of the living Word and we must be careful not to judge others so harsh.
We are all growing , mainly slowly!
I see in Paul where he was not sure of certain things? yet I know The truth about this even now!
Paul was not sure!
Paul learned ans wrote HIS part in the new testament without any teacher or books from this world.
He heard and obeyed the Holy Ghost.
Just think? Everything He taught was knew to the jews.Different than the torah, How could the jews except these New Words?
We have no knew Words, Our bible is the same as the first church! Praise GOD, It should be much easier for us ! We have scripture to back us up!
Paul wrote the scripture, led by the HOLY GHOST of course!

Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
HEART IS THE SPIRIT
He was NEVER BORN OF GOD!

this is the new man ,born of GOD!
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

THIS is a very BOLD STATEMENT?
ALL THINGS BECOME NEW!
100% all things! What does ALL things mean?? It means everything before that moment is gone forever! A brand new creature is made. It starts a NEW life. Nothing from the past is ever again in that new person or being we can say!
The old person is dead , nailed to the cross with our LORD!
Now? Everything of this New being is accepted by faith!
Faith works by Love.
Because, We are now under LOVE!
The law of LAW!







You see? He had not given Himself to our LORD!
Other wise had he? He would have been born of GOD!
This is mainly what i preach. we must be born again to have salvation . born again is a new birth , just as profound as our first!
few are .Many believe , but do not accept Him as LORD! Lord means we count Him above our selfs and obey Him and follow only HIM!

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

HE MUST be our LORD and Master.

You know I go to another site, Where they believe? They do not have to love or obey our LORD, They feel they only have to say the sinners prayer and all are saved.They have not been born again . And think it is not a real birth!
They are very hard to change in there thinking, only the Spirit of Truth to change them .

you guys mostly appear you want more truth and will change in your thinking? I think most of us are willing to hear the Holy Ghost!
Change never comes easy . And that is good!
we should not change , unless we see in our hearts , spirit!
Which i find our spirit knows truth from lies always!
Our problem is always in our outward mind.
We have All accepted teachings from mankind as truth!
When they do not line up with the Living WORD!
But , once we see clearly the truth? We gladly accept it and live it!

None of us want to be wrong! But to grow in Truth? we all are at times!
Never change unless you fully see the truth for your self!
Take no ones word for truth, no not me or any other .
But once your spirit and then the HOLY GHOST confirms in your heart [spirit] then and only then accept it as truth!


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

These signs are for all of us willing.

I have experianced them all in my life time and I am no more than the least in the body of our LORD!
We are one !

 

[jiggyfly]

But once your spirit and then the HOLY GHOST confirms in your heart [spirit] then and only then accept it as truth!

And that is exactly what I have done concerning the false teaching of OSAS.

 

[spirit1st]

JIGGYFLY!
Don"t you see? Living in fear , is a form of bondage?

Fearing each moment of life? He might dump us out of HIS family and household?

Never being at peace or having real faith in HIM?

Because , He keeps us! We could not keep our selfs!


1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.



Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Tonyb]

Over the years I've heard differing view concerning Salvation, Some say no we cannot lose our salvation and some say, O yes we can!
Those who say no we cannot, don't have any problems theologically speaking or worries naturally speaking about anyone losing there salvation.

Those who say a Christian can lose there salvation have difficulties trying to explain at what point someone can actually lose it. Some have the idea the God is watching them like a harsh taskmaster, just waiting for them to step over the mark, or to commit that certain sin just one more time and He is going to fry their but in the lake of fire.
I don't believe for one moment that anyone who is concerned enough to maintain a spiritual life no matter how weak or feeble is in dander of losing it.

However there is another class of people who walk away from their salvation, they don't continue in the faith, they couldn't care a less about the faith they once had, they have effectively lost their salvation

 

[spirit1st]

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[jiggyfly]

JIGGYFLY!
Don"t you see? Living in fear , is a form of bondage?

Fearing each moment of life? He might dump us out of HIS family and household?

Never being at peace or having real faith in HIM?

Because , He keeps us! We could not keep our selfs!


1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.



Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I don't fear or live in fear, I rest in Christ, but I also know that when one walks according to the flesh they are not abiding in Christ, and this is something we are all guilty of including you.

You have not commented on the scriptures that clearly show the OSAS doctrine to be lacking, you just paste the scripture without a comment(John 15:1-4). I really don't see the need to continue this arguement, it's not likely that through something I post you will change your mind and there is nothing you can post to change my mind. There are scriptures that are very clear about those who know the Lord Jesus (born again) and turn away. Jesus gave many parables , especially the seed and the sower, and it clearly shows that three of the four the Word ( Jesus) is present. Just as Jesus said if you don't understand this parable you wont understand the rest of them.

Mark 4:13-20
13*And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? 14*The sower soweth the word. 15*And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16*And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 and have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word’s sake, immediately they are offended. 18*And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 19 and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. 20*And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.

Psalm 69:27&28
7*Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.
Matthew 24:12&13
12*And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13*But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Galatians 1:6&7
6*I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7*which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ

Galatians 5:1-4
1*Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2*Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3*For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4*Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Colossians 1:21-25
21*And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22*in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23*if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24*who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body’s sake, which is the church: 25*whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Hebrews 2:1
1*Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4*For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:23-31
23*Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised 24*and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25*not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26*For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27*but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28*He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29*of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30*For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

James 5:19&20
19*Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20*let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

2Peter 2:20-22
20*For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21*For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22*But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


I could continue to post more scriptures, but these are more than sufficient. OSAS can not explain them so it usally ignores them. When presented with John 15:1-4 they refuse to comment on it because the whole word of God does not fit into the OSAS doctrine.

 

[spirit1st]

Very easy to explain , if we accept the scriptures as truth!
Which All scripture is Truth!
It is the understanding that counts!

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

You must be under the law to sin!

Now if your judging by the flesh
Yes it will always sin

but if your judging by our spirit, once BORN AGAIN? We cannot sin!

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

[jiggyfly]

Very easy to explain , if we accept the scriptures as truth!
Which All scripture is Truth!
It is the understanding that counts!

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

You must be under the law to sin!

Now if your judging by the flesh
Yes it will always sin

but if your judging by our spirit, once BORN AGAIN? We cannot sin!

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.


Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

If it were as you say Spirit1st then why the instruction from Paul to walk according to the Spirit???

Paul said that it is possible to fall from grace, didn't he????


But if ye be led by the Spirit, why does he state "but if"???

There is an enormous amount of instruction in the new testament to "endure", "follow", "be led", "beware", "standfast", "holdfast",and "abide" for a reason don't you think????? There are also a lot of terms used like "flee from", "fall from", and "turn away". It seems to me that the writers of the new testament do not agree with OSAS either, if it is not possible to fall from grace, turn away and follow another gospel then why did they say it was. If it's impossible to exit Christ then why Does He command us to abide, follow and endure????? I'm sorry but your OSAS doctrine is not founded on all of the Word of God, no matter how you look at it.

You have not answerd John 15:2, because you can't do it and maintain OSAS doctrine.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

You have not answered the parable of the seed and the sower for the same reason.

You did try to answer the pabable of the ten virgins but your answer was in error because Jesus likened the Kingdom to all ten virgins not just the wise or ready ones.

I have no fear and I have great peace within that comes from abiding in Christ. For as many as are led by the Spirit, these are the sons of God.

Now if you want to go back and address matthew 25,Mark 4, John 15, Galatians 1&5, Colossians 1, Hebrews 1,6&10 James 5, 2Peter 2, and show me why they don't mean what they state, then we can move on to some other key scriptures.

 

[Ncdataman]

While I find this conversation very interesting, should we not be more concerned with sharing the gospel with others? I will let God worry about those trivial things. We are to lead people to the Lord, once they get there, He will take care of the rest. Does anyone REALLY know the answer to this question, No. I personally hold the belief the once we are saved, we are good to go, but it's ok if someone does not agree. My job is to be an example and lead people to the Cross, IF we are focased on something such as this, then satan has thrown us off the path. God Bless!

 

[spirit1st]

Your confusing the called with the elect!
Bearing fruit, is the fruits of the spirit!
Showing these fruits in our lives!

The called are tested and tried!

The chosen have already been tested and then chosen!

The called have not been BORN OF GOD!
The Elect of been born of GOD!

Your trying to put all in one lump some!
It cannot be.


Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

All though life we plant seeds of Truth and LOVE!

It really is amazing? where once I preached against once saved. Now I preach for it!

you see ? It really comes down to faith And fear and LOVE!

Would you want your kids to think? AT any moment , you might put them out of your home and life?

Or would you want them to know? They can trust you and come to you with anything and you will always be there for them?

Well God is a much better Father than you and Loves us much more than you Love your kids!

You can believe what you chose?
I chose to believe HE never leaves or forsakes us!
Once we are accepted into His Kingdom and HOUSEHOLD and FAMILY!

I chose to believe we are sealed for ever more.

I chose to believe we have the HOLY GHOST for ever more!

You feel better believing , He is waiting and watching and ready to dump you always.
As if HE died for us , could our sins away suffered 33 years on earth , Then is watching you ready to dump you at the first sign of failure?

Not being smart!
I see a different GOD , One who Loves me no matter what!
One who Never leaves me and is always there for me to talk with or cry out to or wants to bless and heal me 24/7
I see MY father was Pure perfect LOVE and that Pure perfect LOVE is toward me and every child HE has accepted!

You see? The GOD I know has done everything HE ever did for LOVE.
Yes hell is out of LOVE , destoring in the old testament and even inn the new , was out of LOVE!

I see Him different than you do?

Every scripture I judge , I see You first as LOVE , Love gives mercy!
So when I read scripture , I think first? He is LOVE ! But I also know ? He is Holy and perfect .

Now HE tells HIS childern? Be perfect as I am
And ? BE Holy as I am.

If this could not be? Then why would HE tell us???


You see your problem is not accepting , how He has Created us a knew!


If you could accept the scriptures that explain the NEW CREATURE? Yoiu could see? WE are perfect beings in our spirit and not still evil being like our flesh!

HE has restored all those BORN OF GOD! 100%!

Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

1Pe 3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

2Co 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What your really saying is?
We are not more than conquers?
We are failures , most will fail and be dumped aside!
I am saying we are more than conquers and He never leaves us ever .


Now as I said? The chosen or very different than the called!

The difference is of course? The new birth!

The chosen have already been tried!
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Listen? I did not write these scriptures , I only accept THEM as 100% Truth.
We never see our spirit!
But it is very clear in scripture , Our spirit is our main part and our eternal part!
And the part that needed to be changed in order for any person to be SAVED !

Unless we see this? We will judge all things by the dead and dying flesh!
Which we clearly see dies and returns to the dust , our LORD made it from!

Now I fully understand? Most are taught mainly about the flesh and little or nothing about our spirit?

But it should be the other way around!

The eternal part is the important part!

What has and is taking place in our spirit , will always be revealed in our flesh!

Everything is spiritual first, then we see the results in our lives!


I am not putting you down!
If you feel you must live in fear?
Do it!
We can only live in the light we have!

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

WALKING as men?

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
This is our spirit , we are to live and walk in!

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I am only trying to reveal truth to you!
If you can accept it ? Great if not! I will not think less of you!

Things of the spirit are the meat of the LIVING WORD!

And are not easy to accept in our natural mind !
He must open our understanding or we never see it!
Our natural thinking cannot understand!
The things of the Holy Ghost must all , be accepted as Truth then we must know they are for us and then we step out in faith , living them

of course the world cannot see or accept the christain!
Because we live by Faith !
Faith , that HIS Word is true!

 

[Tonyb]

I think you are missing a key point here, there is no need for a Christians to fear losing their salvation, a Christian who has an ongoing relationship with the Lord can have a sure hope, a confident expectation that they are safe in Christ. And that they are loved by their heavenly Father and are safe in his hands too.

The exhortation to abide in Christ would make very little sense if there wasn't the possibility of not abiding in Christ.
Of course the exhortation must be made to a believer, because an unbeliever does not believe in Christ in the first instance.

As for those who chose to abandon the faith, it was not the will of God for their lives, they chose to abandon Him. God did not dump them, they dumped God. I've seen it happen, I've seen people saved, born again, filled with the Holy Spirit, had God sort out the issues that have hindered them in life and then they've took their leave. Some of them will even debate with you whether there is a God.

What has happened to these people? They have stopped being saved on a daily basis, they have no interest in salvation. I dare say many of them couldn't turn to God, even if they wanted His blessing in their lives, they have become to hardened inside.

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. It is pressing into God and abiding in Him, and knowing Him that really counts. For those who don't abide in the vine the parable suggests they wither up and die, but in the finale analysis it will be seen to be their own personal choice, the dumped God, God didn't dump them.

It is important to exhort Christians to pursue the kingdom and God's righteousness and not to become slack in the faith. Osas can lull some into a false sense of security about their future. I know of one man who was a born again Spirit filled Christian who was actively involved in evangelism, drama and worship ministry. He believed in osas, I believe it was a factor in his losing his way and abandoning the faith. He ended up married a white Witch.

Blessings,
Tony

 

[Chad]

I agree with Tony. You know, while its a beautiful thing to quote Scripture to back up statements we make, it is just common sense that if you walk away from Jesus, you walk away from Salvation. Therefore, you are not saved. If you abide in Christ [remain in Him, in faith and obedience], you are *always* saved so long as you do not walk away.

There is no reason to even have to study so hard to figure out this very simple thing. Its just simple logic. You abandon someone, you abandon your relationship with that person. Same with Christ. You abandon Him, you lose your relationship with Him, and of course Salvation.

More common sense, you expect to be "saved" and go to Heaven if you abandon Jesus? I think not.

 

[jiggyfly]

You feel better believing , He is waiting and watching and ready to dump you always.
As if HE died for us , could our sins away suffered 33 years on earth , Then is watching you ready to dump you at the first sign of failure?

Not being smart!
I see a different GOD , One who Loves me no matter what!
One who Never leaves me and is always there for me to talk with or cry out to or wants to bless and heal me 24/7
I see MY father was Pure perfect LOVE and that Pure perfect LOVE is toward me and every child HE has accepted!

Spirit1st , I have never said anything or even illuded about Father dumping anyone. I don't know where you got that idea but it wasn't from my posts. I totally agree that Father, Son and HolySpirit never leave or forsake us. But we on the otherhand depart from them. You are free to have your own opinion for sure but OSAS does not use the full council of God's word. It does not line up with the scriptures that have been posted in this thread. If it were the truth then Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, and John were not aware of it, because they warned us of wandering or turning away and encouraged us to abide. Why would they warn of a threat that doesn't exist?????? The fact is they wouldn't and they didn't warn us for no reason. With all due respect, the confusion is on your end. What is difficult about it, you are either in Christ or not. Your either connected with Him or your not.

You still have free choice, don't you? You said it yourself that God is love. Well, look at what love is.

1Corinthians 13:4-7
4*Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5*or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. 6*It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

We are not forced to choose God, nor are we held captive and in chains once we do choose Him. We are to die to self daily we are to abide moment by moment. "Never really saved to start with" is one of the biggest cop outs there has ever been. There is no scripture to even suggest an instance of this . But there are many scriptures that show a falling away and turning away from Christ.

I feel like plenty of scripture and commentary has been posted in this thread for the Truth to win out, so I bid everyone God's blessing.

 

[spirit1st]

i won"t debate it any more!
I just cannot see any person on earth, Who has HIS mind and Nature , forsaken HIM!
I know it says FEW are chosen!
Maybe HE should have said?
Few of the few would make it!

but i think it was said correctly!

 

[Firstborn]

Heb 12:8 But if ye are without chastening, whereof all have been made partakers, then are ye bastards (illegitimate children), and not sons. I belief that God knows everything, that is why He knows the day you get “saved” , that after a few years you will turn your back on Him. Why will God waste His Spirit and His time educate you as a child.

I belief the proof of your spiritual birth is the fruit, that comes from the discipline, the involvement of the Spirit and your obedience. And not from trying to live without sin. You see the responsibility is on God and not from you. Yes you can be religious and look like a son, but you are not, you’re a *******. The bottom line is when you are born again, it is a once of happening, where God immediately start educate you as a son, and you turning back , never even cross His mind.
Be blessed
Niel