Is it Okay to Condemn Sinners?

[bountifulove4]

The parable of the Prodigal Son shows the love that a father has for his children.

it also show the vulnerability that a person has when they truly love someone, they are willing to see past all of their mistakes, weaknesses and failures and continue to love them

Luk 15:32 [ his son ] ........ was dead, and is alive again; ...and was lost, and is found.

 

[MedicBravo]

Don't leave out the rest of it.
God tells us HOW to judge and what hypocritical judgment is.
You're not going to bring anyone to God or get open if you start with "Hellfire and brimstone you sinner!"

 

[KingJ]

You're not going to bring anyone to God or get open if you start with "Hellfire and brimstone you sinner!"

Not sure if I agree with this line. It was a nun telling me exactly that that forced me to introspect. I asked myself how and why could a loving and good God hate my sin so much that eternal torment be possible.

 

[Twistie]

He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

As he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.


(⁠つ⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)⁠つ
.

 

[MedicBravo]

Not sure if I agree with this line. It was a nun telling me exactly that that forced me to introspect. I asked myself how and why could a loving and good God hate my sin so much that eternal torment be possible.

You're in the minority and no minority defines the standard.
Jesus didn't do that and He did not downplay Hell.

Sin is so bad that Hell IS the perfect judgment for those who refuse to change.

 

[KingJ]

You're in the minority and no minority defines the standard.
Jesus didn't do that and He did not downplay Hell.

Sin is so bad that Hell IS the perfect judgment for those who refuse to change.

I don't think you properly read my post? Its the complete opposite of downplaying hell .

 

[Bill]

"They" in Romans One refers to you and to me and to everyone else on earth. This is clear from the conclusion in Romand 2:1, which belongs with chapter One, as Paul's letter was not originally divided into chapters:

"Therefore, you are inexcusable, O one, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."

We are all guilty before God, apart from forgiveness: "There is none who does righteousness, no not one."

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I read your comments but I have no clue what you're talking about.

What is Romand 2:1 , I never heard of that book before. Are you talking about Romans? Okay I think that's who you are talking about.

But I still don't understand anything or what you're trying to say. I prefer that you just say it straight up versus beating around the bush please

 

[Bill]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

And the concept of condemning sinners.

If we take it as the concept that we are trying to save the sinners, then yes, it is okay to condemn them trying to bring trepidation into their mind as to the result of their sins.

But out and out condemning them, where you condemn them in your heart or you make the judgment and say they have no hope, that is a different story. And this we must not do.

Giving a better example. It is okay to tell someone who is in a homosexual relationship. That this is not acceptable by God. There are numerous statements in Scripture, that God has focused his View of one man and one woman. And it states about the marriage let no man divide what God has United.

It is important for us to let those who walk in darkness know that they are walking in darkness. Because many who walk in darkness do not realize it.

But there are others who walk in the Darkness, and choose to walk in that Darkness. They actually relish it, preferring to be in the darkness itself then to actually walk in the light of God.

Even though we can condemn the sin, we cannot State out loud that you're going to go to hell. Because we are not the final judge. We can choose to help a person letting them know what their path is if they choose to continue on the road, but we cannot condemn that person in our hearts.

 

[Rad]

No we cant "condemn" sinners, if in the sense of "condemn" we mean consign to Hell, for that as has been pointed out before is Gods prerogative alone, and he alone has ALL the information to come to a perfect judgement, we on the other hand, are wretched sinners ourselves, our faith and so called morality twisted and perverted by our sinfulness, unable to judge our own salvation let alone the salvation or otherwise of others. But we can judge the sin, by following christs teachings and commandments we can see how we deviate so much from what he asks of us and must hope and pray that God indeed, is very, very merciful and forgiving, for we are ALL in dire need of his Grace.

One thing that always gets to me when the subject of "sin" and "condemnation" arises in discussion is how quick some Christians are to point the finger at Sexual immorality, particularly the sins of the LBBTQ community, or as someone referred to them lovingly as, "the Alphabet people", i must remember that phrase, a definite example of Christs love and compassion as well as our own wretched sinfulness., while ignoring the biggest condemnation Christ had, which was for the rich, the hypocrites and those that ignored the sufferings of the poor and oppressed, and to the best of my knowledge he never once even mentioned Homosexuality. Which isnt to say its not a sin, but that it would seem to come well down Christs list of "degrees of sin".

Could it just be that those sins, those of greed and indifference to the sufferings of the poor, are the very sins that we, in the rich world, are most guilty of, and its always far easier to try to deflect our own guilt by pointing out the sins of others.

 

[Bill]

No we cant "condemn" sinners, if in the sense of "condemn" we mean consign to Hell, for that as has been pointed out before is Gods prerogative alone, and he alone has ALL the information to come to a perfect judgement, we on the other hand, are wretched sinners ourselves, our faith and so called morality twisted and perverted by our sinfulness, unable to judge our own salvation let alone the salvation or otherwise of others. But we can judge the sin, by following christs teachings and commandments we can see how we deviate so much from what he asks of us and must hope and pray that God indeed, is very, very merciful and forgiving, for we are ALL in dire need of his Grace.

One thing that always gets to me when the subject of "sin" and "condemnation" arises in discussion is how quick some Christians are to point the finger at Sexual immorality, particularly the sins of the LBBTQ community, or as someone referred to them lovingly as, "the Alphabet people", i must remember that phrase, a definite example of Christs love and compassion as well as our own wretched sinfulness., while ignoring the biggest condemnation Christ had, which was for the rich, the hypocrites and those that ignored the sufferings of the poor and oppressed, and to the best of my knowledge he never once even mentioned Homosexuality. Which isnt to say its not a sin, but that it would seem to come well down Christs list of "degrees of sin".

Could it just be that those sins, those of greed and indifference to the sufferings of the poor, are the very sins that we, in the rich world, are most guilty of, and its always far easier to try to deflect our own guilt by pointing out the sins of others.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly maybe I use the wrong words I'm not quite sure. But when you're dealing with somebody that you know is in the occult for instance. And they are bragging about doing casting spells and whatnot. I don't feel it's wrong to sit there and say you're on a path to destruction you're on a path to hell. And this is what I'm talking about that we're not necessarily making the Judgment of that we're going to contend that person to hell but that we are warning them that they are walking that path taking that road

 

[Twistie]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

And the concept of condemning sinners.

If we take it as the concept that we are trying to save the sinners, then yes, it is okay to condemn them trying to bring trepidation into their mind as to the result of their sins.

But out and out condemning them, where you condemn them in your heart or you make the judgment and say they have no hope, that is a different story. And this we must not do.

Giving a better example. It is okay to tell someone who is in a homosexual relationship. That this is not acceptable by God. There are numerous statements in Scripture, that God has focused his View of one man and one woman. And it states about the marriage let no man divide what God has United.

It is important for us to let those who walk in darkness know that they are walking in darkness. Because many who walk in darkness do not realize it.

But there are others who walk in the Darkness, and choose to walk in that Darkness. They actually relish it, preferring to be in the darkness itself then to actually walk in the light of God.

Even though we can condemn the sin, we cannot State out loud that you're going to go to hell. Because we are not the final judge. We can choose to help a person letting them know what their path is if they choose to continue on the road, but we cannot condemn that person in our hearts.

condemn: means to express strong disapproval of someone or something, usually because it is considered morally wrong, unjust, or evil.

judgement -refers to the cognitive process of evaluating circumstances to make a decision, form an opinion, or express an authoritative ruling

Lord told me many will hate the Truth they will twist His words to fit their Life and they Love their Life over Him..
I cried out why Lord why Can they not hear me Hear what is being said..
He told me if they cant hear me and i dwell in you what makes you think you can make them Hear??..
N then i realized that too was pride sticking its foot in my door..all it needs is a crack why we must stay close to the Lord..

Its not they are being judge they hate the Light shining in their darkness

Many are under the spell of the false preachers/teachers or whatever title they claim.. these peddlers of the Word are some of the strongest spells on the Land

Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Hope alls well..

ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ

 

[Twistie]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

And the concept of condemning sinners.

If we take it as the concept that we are trying to save the sinners, then yes, it is okay to condemn them trying to bring trepidation into their mind as to the result of their sins.

But out and out condemning them, where you condemn them in your heart or you make the judgment and say they have no hope, that is a different story. And this we must not do.

Giving a better example. It is okay to tell someone who is in a homosexual relationship. That this is not acceptable by God. There are numerous statements in Scripture, that God has focused his View of one man and one woman. And it states about the marriage let no man divide what God has United.

It is important for us to let those who walk in darkness know that they are walking in darkness. Because many who walk in darkness do not realize it.

But there are others who walk in the Darkness, and choose to walk in that Darkness. They actually relish it, preferring to be in the darkness itself then to actually walk in the light of God.

Even though we can condemn the sin, we cannot State out loud that you're going to go to hell. Because we are not the final judge. We can choose to help a person letting them know what their path is if they choose to continue on the road, but we cannot condemn that person in our hearts.

 

[KingJ]

No we cant "condemn" sinners, if in the sense of "condemn" we mean consign to Hell, for that as has been pointed out before is Gods prerogative alone, and he alone has ALL the information to come to a perfect judgement, we on the other hand, are wretched sinners ourselves, our faith and so called morality twisted and perverted by our sinfulness, unable to judge our own salvation let alone the salvation or otherwise of others. But we can judge the sin, by following christs teachings and commandments we can see how we deviate so much from what he asks of us and must hope and pray that God indeed, is very, very merciful and forgiving, for we are ALL in dire need of his Grace.

One thing that always gets to me when the subject of "sin" and "condemnation" arises in discussion is how quick some Christians are to point the finger at Sexual immorality, particularly the sins of the LBBTQ community, or as someone referred to them lovingly as, "the Alphabet people", i must remember that phrase, a definite example of Christs love and compassion as well as our own wretched sinfulness., while ignoring the biggest condemnation Christ had, which was for the rich, the hypocrites and those that ignored the sufferings of the poor and oppressed, and to the best of my knowledge he never once even mentioned Homosexuality. Which isnt to say its not a sin, but that it would seem to come well down Christs list of "degrees of sin".

Could it just be that those sins, those of greed and indifference to the sufferings of the poor, are the very sins that we, in the rich world, are most guilty of, and its always far easier to try to deflect our own guilt by pointing out the sins of others.

Rad, you appear to have a massive lack of scriptural knowledge. There are too many unscriptural personal opinions in your posts. My spirit is so vexed when I read most of your posts.

Jesus is God the Son Isa 9:6. God ordained a public, graphic and violent death by stoning for all homosexuals Lev 20:13. And many other grievous sins. Is Lev 20:13 torn from your bible?

Christians today harp on the sin of the alphabet people because it is required of us. We are on earth to urge people to be reconciled with God 2 Cor 5:20, repent of their sins Luke 5:32 and work out their salvation with fear and trembling Phil 2:12.

If someone is continuing in a sin that God ordained the death penalty for, there is without any shadow of a doubt absolutely no ''working out salvation in fear and trembling'' taking place.

Now sexual sin like homosexuality is one we need to help the lost better understand. Most sins we can all agree on. Rape is pure evil as someone is terribly hurt for example. But in LGBTQ nobody appears to be hurt. But scripture is clear that God is. God hates the sin. God is hurt when He sees His creation go against the natural purpose for which they were created Rom 1:26.

It frustrates me so much when I see Christians downplay the severity of sins. You are further stumbling those living on a knifes edge with God. It is pure false teaching.

Meditate on Phil 2:12 !!!! Repent and be better. False teachers also received a graphic and violent death by stoning Deut 18:20, Deut 13:1-5. God may not enforce that right now, in the dispensation we are in, but make no mistake, He does not change His mind Num 23:19. There will be no space made in heaven for false teachers.

 

[KingJ]

while ignoring the biggest condemnation Christ had, which was for the rich, the hypocrites and those that ignored the sufferings of the poor and oppressed,

Jesus frequently rebuked hypocrisy, greed, and oppression because those were the dominant sins of the religious leaders He was confronting. His audience already accepted the Mosaic Law's teaching on sexual morality, so there was no controversy there that required repeated correction.

Jesus nevertheless reaffirmed God's design for marriage (Matt. 19:4–6) and taught that sexual immoralities (porneia) defile a person (Mark 7:20–23). That term referred to the unlawful sexual practices already defined in the Law. Silence on homosexuality is therefore not approval of it, just as His silence on incest or bestiality is not approval of those sins.

Nor does Scripture teach that all sins are equal. Jesus Himself spoke of the "greater sin" (John 19:11), "greater condemnation" (Matt. 23), and varying degrees of punishment (Luke 12:47–48). The Bible teaches both truths simultaneously: all sin condemns apart from Christ, yet some sins reveal a greater degree of rebellion and incur greater judgment.

 

[Rad]

Rad, you appear to have a massive lack of scriptural knowledge. There are too many unscriptural personal opinions in your posts. My spirit is so vexed when I read most of your posts.

Sorry to have "vexed" you, i'll try to do better in future.

Jesus is God the Son Isa 9:6. God ordained a public, graphic and violent death by stoning for all homosexuals Lev 20:13. And many other grievous sins. Is Lev 20:13 torn from your bible?

This is true, although we must also remember that when the woman taken in adultery was brought to Christ and he was asked , "What should we do with her", his answer wasnt "Stoned to death" according to the Law, it was "Let him without sin cast the first stone", he also added to the woman, " Go and sin no more" , which as we all know, is impossible to do and just for you heres the scriptural reference John 8 :1-11, this is a call not only to Mercy and forgiveness but also a call for each of us to consider our own sins before we so readily point the finger at others.

Christians today harp on the sin of the alphabet people because it is required of us. We are on earth to urge people to be reconciled with God 2 Cor 5:20, repent of their sins Luke 5:32 and work out their salvation with fear and trembling Phil 2:12.

You see there you go again with your "Alphabet people", thats a pretty derogatory term dont you think, why not just call them LBBTQ, or Homosexual, or gay, or transgender, but "alphabet people", seriously shows your lack of compassion, even for those you consider 1ndulging in the gravest of sins. So i would urge you to be "Reconciled with God" and try to stop using abusive and derogatory terms for his children, because like them, we are ALL wretched sinners in the sight of God.

If someone is continuing in a sin that God ordained the death penalty for, there is without any shadow of a doubt absolutely no ''working out salvation in fear and trembling'' taking place.

This is true, but let me ask you a question, when did you last condemn someone for being rich or for not showing compassion to the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the Stranger, those sick and in prison?, for these are all sins that Christ determined the sinner would go to hell for, or the religious hypocrites who condemn others so freely while ignoring the sins inherent in their own lives?. I would be very interested to know when you last did.

Now sexual sin like homosexuality is one we need to help the lost better understand. Most sins we can all agree on. Rape is pure evil as someone is terribly hurt for example. But in LGBTQ nobody appears to be hurt. But scripture is clear that God is. God hates the sin. God is hurt when He sees His creation go against the natural purpose for which they were created Rom 1:26.

You see there you go again, just what is it about sexual sin that fascinates you so much, yes for sure Christ did mention it, but his main condemnations were for the rich and powerful, the hypocrites and those that ignore the plight of the poor and oppressed. ! am not discounting sexual sins, but why is it your main obsession, could it be its far easier to point the finger at others sins, especially marginalised groups, and far more comfortable to live in a state of material wealth rather than be burdened with a life of Self denial and sacrifice in the name of Love and Compassion

It frustrates me so much when I see Christians downplay the severity of sins. You are further stumbling those living on a knifes edge with God. It is pure false teaching.

Yes i agree, it frustrates and indeed angers me when i see Christians reviling others sins while living in a state of Hypocrisy and sin themselves, and often refusing to acknowledge that sin, we should ALL take note of Christs teaching in the parable of "Lazarus and the rich man" Luke 16: 19-31, for in this globalised village Lazarus is indeed at our gate and unless we acknowledge our wealth and the sin that comes with it we too shall suffer the same fate as the Rich Man.

Meditate on Phil 2:12 !!!! Repent and be better. False teachers also received a graphic and violent death by stoning Deut 18:20, Deut 13:1-5. God may not enforce that right now, in the dispensation we are in, but make no mistake, He does not change His mind Num 23:19. There will be no space made in heaven for false teachers.

Indeed there won't. and unless you end your obsession on sexual sin and encompass the full spectrum of Christs teaching then you are yourself a "false teacher", so "Repent and do better"!!

 

[Rad]

Jesus frequently rebuked hypocrisy, greed, and oppression because those were the dominant sins of the religious leaders He was confronting. His audience already accepted the Mosaic Law's teaching on sexual morality, so there was no controversy there that required repeated correction.

No, no ,no, now youre just twisting Christs words to suit your own personal agenda, the Rich young ruler was not a member of the religious hierarchy, neither was the rich man in Lazarus and the Rich man, neither was Zacchaeus, the "rich" Christ condemned are just that, The Rich, please dont try again to deflect and point the finger at others, ..... and Hypocrisy and oppression are found in ALL groups, when Christ spoke of Oppression and Injustice it was the Oppression and injustice that led to the pain and suffering of the poor, and as such his warnings and condemnation of the rich, the Hypocrites and the Oppressors apply to ALL societal groups, not just the Religious.

Jesus nevertheless reaffirmed God's design for marriage (Matt. 19:4–6) and taught that sexual immoralities (porneia) defile a person (Mark 7:20–23). That term referred to the unlawful sexual practices already defined in the Law. Silence on homosexuality is therefore not approval of it, just as His silence on incest or bestiality is not approval of those sins.

Youre doing it again, this one track, laser like focus on Sexual sins, why, why, why, do you keep doing this?, for sure sexual immorality is a sin , but in Mark 7: 20-23 Christ also listed " Evil thoughts, murders, thefts, Covetousness, Wickedness, deceit, an evil eye, Blasphemy, pride and Foolishness, together with the sexual sins of Adultery, Fornication and lasciviousness, yet you focus on Homosexuality, which he never mentioned together with incest and bestiality, again which he never mentioned, i think if i was a Psychiatrist i'd be a little concerned at your obsession with sins of the flesh, and if i was a theologian i'd be concerned about your disregard for the bulk of Christs teachings on sin and their consequences.

Nor does Scripture teach that all sins are equal. Jesus Himself spoke of the "greater sin" (John 19:11), "greater condemnation" (Matt. 23), and varying degrees of punishment (Luke 12:47–48). The Bible teaches both truths simultaneously: all sin condemns apart from Christ, yet some sins reveal a greater degree of rebellion and incur greater judgment.

I think we've had this conversation before, and not wishing to go over the same ground again alls i 'll say is, in The rich ruler Christ said, Matthew 19:24, "Its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter Heaven", in Lazarus and the rich man, Luke 16:19-31, the rich man was consigned to hell ,in the story of Zacchaeus, it was only after Zacchaeus gave away his wealth that Christ pronounced, Luke 18:1-10, " This day salvation has come to this house" and in Luke 6:24 Christ says " woe to you who are rich for you have received your consolation" and in the Magnificat Mary says, Scriptural reference again, just for you, Luke 1:53, " He hath filled the hungry with good things and the rich he has sent empty away", so it seems to me that the punishment for being rich is one of the greater sins and will receive greater condemnation, but you dont mention it once, could it be that you dont recognise being rich as a sin, or that its just too uncomfortable to have to deal with, if thats the case then the "rebellion" youre in should be of grave concern for your spiritual well being.

 

[KingJ]

Sorry to have "vexed" you, i'll try to do better in future.

This is true, although we must also remember that when the woman taken in adultery was brought to Christ and he was asked , "What should we do with her", his answer wasnt "Stoned to death" according to the Law, it was "Let him without sin cast the first stone", he also added to the woman, " Go and sin no more" , which as we all know, is impossible to do and just for you heres the scriptural reference John 8 :1-11, this is a call not only to Mercy and forgiveness but also a call for each of us to consider our own sins before we so readily point the finger at others.

You see there you go again with your "Alphabet people", thats a pretty derogatory term dont you think, why not just call them LBBTQ, or Homosexual, or gay, or transgender, but "alphabet people", seriously shows your lack of compassion, even for those you consider 1ndulging in the gravest of sins. So i would urge you to be "Reconciled with God" and try to stop using abusive and derogatory terms for his children, because like them, we are ALL wretched sinners in the sight of God.

This is true, but let me ask you a question, when did you last condemn someone for being rich or for not showing compassion to the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the Stranger, those sick and in prison?, for these are all sins that Christ determined the sinner would go to hell for, or the religious hypocrites who condemn others so freely while ignoring the sins inherent in their own lives?. I would be very interested to know when you last did.

You see there you go again, just what is it about sexual sin that fascinates you so much, yes for sure Christ did mention it, but his main condemnations were for the rich and powerful, the hypocrites and those that ignore the plight of the poor and oppressed. ! am not discounting sexual sins, but why is it your main obsession, could it be its far easier to point the finger at others sins, especially marginalised groups, and far more comfortable to live in a state of material wealth rather than be burdened with a life of Self denial and sacrifice in the name of Love and Compassion

Yes i agree, it frustrates and indeed angers me when i see Christians reviling others sins while living in a state of Hypocrisy and sin themselves, and often refusing to acknowledge that sin, we should ALL take note of Christs teaching in the parable of "Lazarus and the rich man" Luke 16: 19-31, for in this globalised village Lazarus is indeed at our gate and unless we acknowledge our wealth and the sin that comes with it we too shall suffer the same fate as the Rich Man.

Indeed there won't. and unless you end your obsession on sexual sin and encompass the full spectrum of Christs teaching then you are yourself a "false teacher", so "Repent and do better"!!

Rad you are dancing, waffling, blurring and creating red herrings.

Let's try a simpler approach and try get over the line at least one very simple and important point on homosexuality.

Answer the below with only a Yes or a NO, please.

1. Is God Jesus?
2. Did God inspire the penning of Lev 20:13?
3. Does God change His mind?
4. Did God destroy Sodom because their sins were not grievous?
5. Is God just?
6. Is God partial?
7. Does Jesus teach degrees of sin?

 

[KingJ]

Sorry to have "vexed" you, i'll try to do better in future.

Cringe

This is true, although we must also remember

No, separate topic. Reread and try stay focused.

You see there you go again with your "Alphabet people", thats a pretty derogatory term dont you think,

No, I don't think it is.

This is true, but let me ask you a question,

No, let the point digest before you say anything further.

You see there you go again, just what is it about sexual sin that fascinates you so much

I clearly explained why in my post, please re-read.

Yes i agree, it frustrates and indeed angers me when i see Christians reviling others sins while living in a state of Hypocrisy and sin themselves, and often refusing to acknowledge that sin, we should ALL take note of Christs teaching in the parable of "Lazarus and the rich man" Luke 16: 19-31, for in this globalised village Lazarus is indeed at our gate and unless we acknowledge our wealth and the sin that comes with it we too shall suffer the same fate as the Rich Man.

You are shifting the focus from the point made. This is a very dishonest reply by you. Be better.

Indeed there won't. and unless you end your obsession on sexual sin and encompass the full spectrum of Christs teaching then you are yourself a "false teacher", so "Repent and do better"!!

And there we have it. All your waffling summarized. Your goal is to blur sin and not recognize the importance of degrees of sin.

-----------

What do you do with all the scriptures speaking on degrees of sin? Do you tear them from your bible?

I can just imagine someone like you sitting in the congregation when Paul isolates a 'brethren so called' 1 Cor 5:11, committing a sin that not even the heathens commit 1 Cor 5:1, and having him removed from the meeting. You will stand up and say ''Excuse me Paul, what about ....'' and before you would manage to say anything you would be dragged out together with the guy guilty of incest ... .

You are a false teacher. Blurring the lines on sin defies logic and further stumbles mortal sinners. Be better.