A lack of choice?

[Bill]

Thats the proof Lucifer is in bondage with sin. Saying he will be like God and having no "Let there be" faithful power. And it was our Holy Father alone good

That is not free will by adding to Christ will. like in genesis the first recorded four words of false prophecy. Neither shall you touch the cause of the fall

By his own dark will he falsely declared he was equal by adding to prophecy with false prophecy four words again "neither shall you touch"

We can do the will of the father (sola scriptura). The kind of food found as daily bread in parables hidden from the father of lies who has no spiritual understanding and therefore not subject to the gospel bread

John 4:33-35;Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?;Jesus saith unto them, My meat (from where power comes) is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

The key is both power to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. Not just power to begin

Philipians2:1;For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Lucifer was not created evil, but with all the splender God gave him.

Scripture states: "until evil was found in him"

 

[Garee]

Lucifer was not created evil, but with all the spl,ender God gave him.

Scripture states: "until evil was found in him"

I would offer. Yes, as spirit of the Holy Spirit of Christ lucifer. . . he was to protect the glory of what the eyes see the "Let there" be faithful Creator. But rather than protect the glory of the parable in respect to the hidden tree. Lucifer usurped the glory of the Christ, the Holy Father, and added to sola scriptura with four words of false prophecy. "Neither shall you touch".

The lust of the flesh drew them to the hidden tree of eternal life a metaphor used to represent Christ not seen and when seen the lust of the eye it moved them to eat .

If they had not touched it the false prophecy. Then there would be no fall. Mankind would still be trusting in the unseen eternal (sola scriptura) and not that seen the temporal dying

The weapon of his warfare the two lustful building blocks of false pride

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[B-A-C]

the Holy Spirit of Christ lucifer.

Christ Lucifer?

Christ, the Holy Father

Christ the Father?

 

[KingJ]

As God is so agaist evil, i would say when you find a verse in scripture stating He created it, i would suggest the interpretation is off.

As we know , even in the King James there are a few versions

I agree with your defense of God. Scripture is crystal clear that He is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 and light with no darkness 1 John 1:5.

But I do not think there is any evil in creating evil as He did.

Creating evil can be provoking people to commit genocide. Or it can be giving mankind high intelligence Heb 2:7 and a tree of the knowledge of good and evil Gen 3:22.

 

[Garee]

Christ Lucifer?

The Spirit of Christ by which He sent out Lucifer an apostle.

Rather than protect the glory of the things seen. He usurped it by adding to it (sola scriptura) 4 words. "Neither shall you touch". The cause of the fall. No man can serve two good teaching masters as one unseen Lord

Satan the lying spirit became the one spirit of the "antichrist" which simply is, another teaching authority other than sola scriptura, Satan the chief false god sending out a legion of antichrists, false apostles. . . bringing false prophecy oral tradition of dying mankind

Lucifer the spirit of the antichrist is show giving his words to Peter used as one of the many antichrists that were there .Peter orally rebuked the unseen Holy father and forbid the son of man Jesus from doing the will .(Mathew 16)

 

[B-A-C]

The Spirit of Christ by which He sent out Lucifer an apostle.

Hmmm....

The word apostle comes from the Greek apostolos, which means 'messenger.' But there's an important distinction in logic and biblical context.

All apostles are messengers, but not all messengers are apostles. That’s because 'apostle' refers to a specific kind of messenger—one who is sent with authority, often directly by Jesus in the New Testament. There were many messengers in the Bible (like angels or prophets) who weren’t called apostles.

The reasoning that 'because apostle means messenger, therefore all messengers are apostles' is actually a logical fallacy called affirming the consequent. It’s like saying, 'All squares are rectangles, so all rectangles must be squares.' It flips the logic in a way that doesn’t hold up.

So while the terms are related, they’re not interchangeable in every context."

 

[Kermos]

An honest discussion on free-will.

As most of you already know, I'm a free-will supporter. But there are scriptures we should be able to discuss.

I believe in God's sovereignty.

1. Proverbs 21:1 (NASB95)
"The king’s heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes."
2. Proverbs 16:9 (NASB95)
"The mind of man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps."
3. Proverbs 19:21 (NASB95)
"Many plans are in a man’s heart, but the counsel of the Lord will stand."
4. Psalm 37:23 (NASB95)
"The steps of a man are established by the Lord, and He delights in his way."
5. Romans 9:10–12 (NASB95)
"And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, 'The older will serve the younger.'"
6. Jeremiah 10:23 (NASB95)
"I know, O Lord, that a man’s way is not in himself, nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps."

It seems that (sometimes at least) God directs people to do certain things. I believe this can be because of decisions we make sometimes.

Hello B-A-C as well as @KingJ and @Gothedral because you "Like" @B-A-C's post,

You opened by indicating that you want to have "An honest discussion on free-will", and I would too.

Largely, I use the term free-will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

The Sovereignty of God is revealed in your first 6 citations.

The definition of sovereign is "One that exercises supreme, permanent authority" (sovereign defined at The Free Dictionary).

You wrote "I believe this can be because of decisions we make sometimes", but the passages are absent of delegated authority.

In effect, your "I believe this can be because of decisions we make sometimes" elevates man as sovereign which, in turn, translates to God not being sovereign.

7. Exodus 8:15 (NASB95)
"But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said."
Pharaoh initially hardened his own heart.
8. Exodus 9:12 (NASB95)
"And the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the Lord had spoken to Moses."
Later, God actively hardens Pharaoh’s heart.
9. Exodus 10:1 (NASB95)
"Then the Lord said to Moses, 'Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them.'"
God explains His purpose in hardening Pharaoh’s heart—to display His power and signs.

This progression—from Pharaoh hardening his own heart to God hardening it—illustrates both human responsibility and divine sovereignty working together.
Now while I don't doubt that God controls all of these things... we still have the choice to sin or not.

Now, B-A-C, you wrote "An honest discussion on free-will", but you wrote "Pharaoh initially hardened his own heart" for your next 3 quotations in Exodus chapters 8, 9, and 10, but chronologically prior to your first quotation which is Exodus 8:15, we find:

​

I will harden Pharaoh’s heart (Exodus 7:3 (NASB1995))​

​

Yet Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.​

(Exodus 7:13 (NASB1995))​

​

To be honest, Exodus 7:3 is the Bible's first mention about the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart.

And, Exodus 7:13 is the Bible's second mention of Pharaoh’s heart hardening.

No Word of God states man was imparted the ability to choose toward God.

You wrote "Pharaoh hardening his own heart to God hardening it—illustrates both human responsibility and divine sovereignty working together", but does Holy Scripture state that?

1Cor 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

God is faithful (1 Corinthians 10:13 (NASB1995)) is wonderful, and this passage does not say anything about man free-will choosing anything.

Does God control whether you eat scrambled eggs or oatmeal for breakfast? I don't know... I know sometimes people (including myself) don't always make
the healthiest choices. Is that because God made me have a piece of cake for breakfast, or is that because I made a bad decision?

Christ's love controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14 (MST&NASB1995))!

My Father in Heaven is so very interested in the minute details about me for my Lord Jesus Christ lovingly tells me "Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matthew 10:29-30 (NASB1995)!

When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit (knowledge of good and evil) but they did it anyway.. was that because God made them do exactly what He told them not to do. Or was it because of their own free-will choice?

The Word of God declares "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'" (Genesis 3:17 (NASB1995)), so it was not because of their own free-will choice.

I do believe there are certain things God plans in advance. Nothing catches God by surprise. In fact I would say every prophecy in the Bible about future events (even future events that are now in the past) are part of God's sovereign plan.

But does God cause people to sin? I don't think so. Does God choose certain people to go to hell/the lake of Fire in advance? I don't think so.

Please pay attention to the Apostle's application of Your Hand illuminating God's intimate control of humanity:

​

"O Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them, who by the Holy Spirit, through the mouth of our father David Your servant, said,​

'Why did the Gentiles rage,​

​

And the peoples devise futile things?​

​

'The kings of the earth took their stand,​

​

And the rulers were gathered together​

​

Against the Lord and against His Christ.'​

​

For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your Hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus."​

(Acts 4:24-30 (NASB1995) - the Apostle Peter and the Apostle John and the Assembly of God were together when they lifted their voices to God with one accord)​

​

Look carefully, for the Assembly of God unison prayer to God includes Pontius Pilate to do whatever Your Hand predestined to occur. That is a specific person under the direct influence of the Lord God Almighty to murder the innocent Son of Man.

The Lord God Almighty lovingly sent the Son of God to redeem God's chosen persons. God is love.

The Lord God Almighty is always good:

​

No one is good except God alone​

(Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 10:18 (NASB1995)).​

​

The Lord God Almighty establishes which of man perceive God:

​

I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes​

(Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 11:25 (NASB1995)).​

​

The Lord God Almighty declares the Sovereignty of God "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 3:3 (NASB1995)) for The Lord God Almighty alone is Savior of the world.

The Lord God Almighty had the Apostle Peter declare God's preservation of God's chosen persons as well as self-willed persons punishment, all the declaration showing the Power of God:

​

"The Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority; daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties"​

(2 Peter 2:9-10 (NASB1995)).​

​

The Lord God Almighty graciously imparts belief into God's chosen persons according to God's good will “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29 (NASB1995)).

The Lord God Almighty declares man is accountable to God:

​

I tell you that every careless word that men speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.​

(Lord Jesus Christ, Matthew 12:36 (NASB1995))​

​

The Lord God Almighty declares to man his thoughts:

​

behold, he who forms the mountains and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought, who makes the morning darkness, and treads on the heights of the earth— the LORD, the God of hosts, is his name!​

(Amos 4:13 (NASB1995))​

​

The Lord God Almighty conveyed through the Apostle Paul of people who exalt the creature above the Grand Creator:

​

"Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false"​

(2 Thessalonians 2:11 (NASB1995)).​

​

The Lord God Almighty lovingly causes God's chosen persons to will according to God's Way (John 14:6), and God lovingly causes God's chosen persons to work joyfully according to God's Way:

​

"it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure"​

(Philippians 2:13 (NASB1995)).​

​

The Lord God Almighty is glorified with “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, so that his works may be manifested as having been wrought in God” (The Word of God, John 3:21 (NASB1995)).

The unearned love of God is described here “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)

We still have the ability to choose.

Josh 24:15 "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Joshua expresses a conditional logic statement in Joshua 24:15, and a conditional logic statement is normally an IF/THEN construct, for example:

IF condition THEN predicate

Stated in a more Joshua 24:15 focused fashion.

IF you_do_this that_will_happen

Thus, the conditional expresses an action in the condition (you_do_this), and the effectual result in the predicate (that_will_happen).

A conditional does not convey ability to the recipient of the conditional.

Now, the conditional logic statement Joshua expressed was "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD" (Joshua 24:15 (NASB1995)), so the condition (you_do_this) is "to serve the LORD is disagreeable in your eyes"; furthermore, Joshua 24:15 contains no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God . The condition Joshua expressed states the condition/state-of-being/nature of the person.

Disagreeable does not mean choose.

In the predicate Joshua provides only false gods to choose among for the those people whose nature is against the LORD, for Joshua said "choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living" (Joshua 24:15 (NASB1995)), and the word "choose" in this verse is translated from בָּחר (bachar) (Strong's Number 977).

Finaly, Joshua departs the logic statement by declaring "but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD", and there is no reference to "choice" nor "free will" towards God (Joshua 24:15 (NASB1995)).

A state of being, "disagreeable", is mentioned in Joshua 24:15, and action, "serve", is mentioned in Joshua 24:15.

There is no choice towards God mentioned in Joshua 24:15.

Deut 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

Moses states not that God imparted man with the ability to choose God, not even a command to choose God:

​

I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.​

(Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (NASB1995))​

​

Take note, Moses referred to choosing living in the land, not choosing God; furthermore, the people failed to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments
(Deuteronomy 30:16 (NASB1995), see also "where the LORD your God has banished you in Deuteronomy 30:1 (NASB1995)) - no one can succeed apart from Christ (John 15:5) - God redeems by the only Way (John 14:6) which is the Blood of Jesus the Lord who died on the cross then victoriously arose from the dead!

Love,
Kermos

 

[Garee]

Hmmm....

The word apostle comes from the Greek apostolos, which means 'messenger.' But there's an important distinction in logic and biblical context.

All apostles are messengers, but not all messengers are apostles. That’s because 'apostle' refers to a specific kind of messenger—one who is sent with authority, often directly by Jesus in the New Testament. There were many messengers in the Bible (like angels or prophets) who weren’t called apostles.

The reasoning that 'because apostle means messenger, therefore all messengers are apostles' is actually a logical fallacy called affirming the consequent. It’s like saying, 'All squares are rectangles, so all rectangles must be squares.' It flips the logic in a way that doesn’t hold up.

So while the terms are related, they’re not interchangeable in every context."

Hi Thanks

Apostles meaning "sent messengers sent" with messages "prophecy" .

"Angelos" messenger not the fake word "angel" which is needed to develop the invisible kind as if more than Christ the eternal invisible kind

Change the meaning of one word it can change the whole.

In that way we must be careful how we hear who we say we do

Deuteronomy 4:2Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it(singular), that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.

Spiritual plagiarism violating the first commandment by adding to the will of sola scriptura .Like in the garden "Neither shall you touch"

Apostle sent messenger Pony Express, Fed X, Smoke signal, UPS ,Wife's favorite arrand boy .ETC

In that way we should be careful when entertaining strangers Christ might have a gift for both sent ones (apostles)

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels messengers apostles unawares.

The two-fold gift. Two the number word that represent God not seen has spoken using the temporal things seen to give the understanding of faith the invisible power of God . The one gift that blesses both the preacher and the ears that hear the teaching of Christ working in them as it is written

Romans 1:11-12;For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

As it is written the faith or labor Christ love mutually works in all. The gift of the comforter

 

[Bill]

I would offer. Yes, as spirit of the Holy Spirit of Christ lucifer. . . he was to protect the glory of what the eyes see the "Let there" be faithful Creator. But rather than protect the glory of the parable in respect to the hidden tree. Lucifer usurped the glory of the Christ, the Holy Father, and added to sola scriptura with four words of false prophecy. "Neither shall you touch".

The lust of the flesh drew them to the hidden tree of eternal life a metaphor used to represent Christ not seen and when seen the lust of the eye it moved them to eat .

If they had not touched it the false prophecy. Then there would be no fall. Mankind would still be trusting in the unseen eternal (sola scriptura) and not that seen the temporal dying

The weapon of his warfare the two lustful building blocks of false pride

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Do you think that Lucifer, who was created, and the Holy Spirit who is God, are the same thing?

 

[Bill]

I agree with your defense of God. Scripture is crystal clear that He is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17 and light with no darkness 1 John 1:5.

But I do not think there is any evil in creating evil as He did.

Creating evil can be provoking people to commit genocide. Or it can be giving mankind high intelligence Heb 2:7 and a tree of the knowledge of good and evil Gen 3:22.

God could not create evil. That would be like saying God created sin.

What would be the point to create evil? Scripture tells us that God uses our failures for His Glory. But He does not create it.

Those choices are made by the created beings. Like Adam and Eve choosing to eat the forbidden fruit. God told them not to, but they chose to disobey

 

[Curtis]

God created all "things", but evil is not a "thing." There is no such thing as a "bag" full of evil.

Evil is the absence of good. Good can exist where evil does not exist, but "evil" can not exist without the existence of good, for evil is the absence of good. The same with "light". Light can exist when darkness does not exist, but "darkness" can not exist without the existence of light for darkness is the absence of light.

If God created a spiritual being as being good and full of light, and then "became darkness (evil)" can it be said God "indirectly" caused evil to come into existence?

Darkness must be allowed to exist or man or angels would not have a choice to choose one over the other.
If evil did not exist at all, then all created beings would have no choice but to worship God, as they would have no other choice.

 

[B-A-C]

Hebrews 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels messengers apostles unawares.

If these beings are "unseen", how do we entertain them? How would we even know they were in our presence?

 

[Curtis]

If angels were given free will to choose to either obey God (good, light) or disobey God (evil, darkness), how can we know if, sometime in the future, other angels decide to disobey God and cause more problems like Lucifer?

We know God has His "elect" saints who will never perish because he knew who they were before the creation of the world.
God also has His "elect" angels, whom he knew would never disobey Him, or they would not be called His elect angels. God's elect angels will never disobey God and perish.

1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

 

[Brad Huber]

Now, B-A-C, you wrote "An honest discussion on free-will", but you wrote "Pharaoh initially hardened his own heart" for your next 3 quotations in Exodus chapters 8, 9, and 10, but chronologically prior to your first quotation which is Exodus 8:15, we find:

​

I will harden Pharaoh’s heart (Exodus 7:3 (NASB1995))​

​

Yet Pharaoh’s heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.​

(Exodus 7:13 (NASB1995))​

​

To be honest, Exodus 7:3 is the Bible's first mention about the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart.

And, Exodus 7:13 is the Bible's second mention of Pharaoh’s heart hardening.

No Word of God states man was imparted the ability to choose toward God.

You wrote "Pharaoh hardening his own heart to God hardening it—illustrates both human responsibility and divine sovereignty working together", but does Holy Scripture state that?

God says He will harden pharaoh's heart in verse 3, but that was one instance, it doesnt necessarily mean that the hardening was permanent, to include verse 13. Its always best not to assume to much or it can put us in conflict with others over truly minor issues.

 

[Curtis]

Any time a person hears the word of God and refuses to obey it, that word, which is from God, will harden their heart. The person who refuses to obey hardens their own heart by their rebellion.

 

[Garee]

If these beings are "unseen", how do we entertain them? How would we even know they were in our presence?

Exactly the angels (fake word) are messengers called apostles. Not some mysterious creation of an invisible legion of spirit being.

How beautiful are there feet

 

[Bill]

Exactly the angels (fake word) are messengers called apostles. Not some mysterious creation of an invisible legion of spirit being.

How beautiful are there feet

You are in for a big surprize. Angels are very real

 

[Bill]

Any time a person hears the word of God and refuses to obey it, that word, which is from God, will harden their heart. The person who refuses to obey hardens their own heart by their rebellion.

Don't forget King Nebuchadnezzar that God used him as His whip to the Nations. But God also brought Nebuchadnezzar to understand Himself.

There is hope for all of mankind not just a select few

 

[Garee]

You are in for a big surprize. Angels are very real

Thanks I like surprises

God creates after kinds .There is no record of creating an invisible kind,

He alone is God the invisible spiritual kind. He demonstrates his invisible power using the temporal things seen that he faithfully created. "Let there be things seen" and the testimony of the words were "God alone good"

I think you meant messengers according to the Greek Anggelos .

The word "angel" a homonym sounds the same but has apposes meaning. It was not coined until the 10th. century.

It created the illusion of the king of lying signs to wonder, wonder, wonder after. . . . as if true prophecy.

Lying signs in order to satisfy the oral tradition of dying mankind. A legion of disembodied spirit gods male and female in the likeness of men called today patron saints .

Believers worship one invisible eternal entity. Not a legion of angels (patron saints)

Luke 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.

Acts 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.

Gods in likeness of men in order to establish the oral tradition of Roman Greek mythology. Government of men as gods (venerable) that Lord it over the non-venerable pew warmers or show time watchers

1 Samuel 28:12-1412And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.;And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

In that way when Jesus was accused of blasphemy a mere man as if eternal God The Father inspired him and declared

John10:34-36;Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?;If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;;Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

In other words, The first loving commandment. As a god do not put your own self or other gods believers before the one Holy Spirit of eternal life

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Deuteronomy 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

Deuteronomy 6:14 Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

 

[Kermos]

God says He will harden pharaoh's heart in verse 3, but that was one instance, it doesnt necessarily mean that the hardening was permanent, to include verse 13. Its always best not to assume to much or it can put us in conflict with others over truly minor issues.

Hello Brad Huber,

The Sovereignty of God is absolutely no minor issue.

Did you notice the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart is specifically attributed to God in verse 13 with "as the LORD had said." (Exodus 7:13 (NASB1995))?

Did you notice @B-A-C's opening statement for his opening post of this thread of "An honest discussion on free-will" (proof post #27)?

Did you notice @B-A-C's opening post of this thread specifically states:

​

7. Exodus 8:15 (NASB95)​

"But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said."​

Pharaoh initially hardened his own heart.​

​

Did you notice that declaring "Pharaoh initially hardened his own heart" in reference to Exodus 8:15 is not honest?

Did you notice that Scripture is devoid of the Word of God declaring man was imparted a free-will ability to choose God?

Did you notice that adding to the Word of God is sin?

Have you ever read “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16 (NASB1995)) and “I chose you out of the world” (The Word of God, John 15:19 (NASB1995), includes salvation)?

Love,
Kermos