A lack of choice?

[Garee]

Even though God gives to man the choices he can make but he does not make those choices for him. The Lord God does give man a strong recommendation of what he should choose.

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

Therefore choose life…….

Chose life according to it as written law the law of faith or understanding of our invisible God .


Always first things first.

Christ does the first works two working as one .(1) Let there be (2) it was God alone good.

Revelation 2:2-6 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:;And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.;(Hear God) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works;(Believe ) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

Again the law of faith (ressurection power) two fold .(1) let there be first love .(2) do first works.

God working to will and to do (Philippians 2:13

 

[Kermos]

Fair enough.. you are coming in very late to the game. I reject OSAS, and several threads over the last 2 decades have been about this.
I'm not ready to get into all of that right now. But perhaps another time. Curtis and KingJ and it seems just about everyone else has been a part of these discussions. The good news is.. that while they may not agree with you on free-will, they do agree with you on OSAS.

I never intended for a free will thread to turn into an OSAS thread.. - but perhaps its inevitable. In any case.. have a good evening.

For some "light" reading - here is about 17 pages of a thread on this...

Thread 'The real big problem with a non-OSAS belief'

Jun 4, 2025

One can go down two paths with a non-OSAS belief. One is fine, the other is not.

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

I am an OSAS believer. The church I attend teaches non-OSAS. But they preach it in a way that does not incriminate God. After much debate and discussion with church elders, studying of scripture and meditating on the topic. The following are my thoughts. For discussion purposes I am going to try to keep it as simple and as clear as possible.

The right path - You do not attempt to 'play God'.

If someone asks you if person A or B are saved and going to heaven, you...

• KingJ
• Replies: 352
• Forum: Bible Study

If that's not enough.. here is more.

Thread 'OSAS - debate # 2,134,567'

Oct 4, 2011

Part 1
Once saved - always saved. This is perhaps one of the greatest dividing factors in the Church today.
There are Churches such as the Unitarians that believe everyone is saved no matter what. You don’t have to believe in God or Jesus or anything. Jesus died for everyone, so everyone is saved no matter what. (Unity Church)
Heb 13:5 Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, "I WILL NEVER DESERT YOU, NOR WILL I EVER FORSAKE YOU,"
Yes God will never leave us. But can we leave him? There’s an old saying that...

• B-A-C
• Replies: 126
• Forum: Bible Study

• 

Hello B-A-C,

You set an equivalency between "OSAS" and "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (The Word of God, John 10:28). Thus, you convey those are interchangeable.

Therefore, in effect, you wrote "I reject 'I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand'".

The Word of God declares "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:48).

@B-A-C, I proclaimed the Sovereignty of God as correction to your preaching the sovereignty of man with your "So just because Jesus chooses you, is no guarantee you won't betray Him. You still have the ability and choice to do so.".

You told me that I am powerful enough to thwart God, but I corrected you that I cannot snatch myself out of Lord Jesus Christ's All Mighty Hand!

You imposed your free-willian philosophy upon me, yet I corrected you by declaring that the loving Power of God (1 Corinthians 1:24) controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

You wrote "I never intended for a free will thread to turn into an OSAS thread", yet you are the one trying to do it. Your free-will contradicts you. You don't sound like you have control over your free-will.

Love,
Kermos

 

[Garee]

You set an equivalency between "OSAS" and "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (The Word of God, John 10:28). Thus, you convey those are interchangeable.

Sometimes it is the little words like I give For some reason has lost value. Like I earned etgernal life . He did not receive eternal life from dying mankind he gave it to them

Freely he gives "let there be" freely we have received the power and "it is the good will of Jehovah"

"Let there be new creatures as sons of God born of God" through the faithful power of his living words it became an outward promised demonstration to the whole world, The display of his mighty work of His let there be faith as a labor of His love

If not according to our first birth literal fleshly dying. Then surely not the second birth born again of God

The you must be born again doctrine began in Genesis. Cain and Abel

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it,(the power to believe and understand God) why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

 

[B-A-C]

ou set an equivalency between "OSAS" and "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (The Word of God, John 10:28). Thus, you convey those are interchangeable.

Therefore, in effect, you wrote "I reject 'I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand'".

The Word of God declares "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:48).

@B-A-C, I proclaimed the Sovereignty of God as correction to your preaching the sovereignty of man with your "So just because Jesus chooses you, is no guarantee you won't betray Him. You still have the ability and choice to do so.".

You told me that I am powerful enough to thwart God, but I corrected you that I cannot snatch myself out of Lord Jesus Christ's All Mighty Hand!

You are still missing the basic premise. I believe we are in the witness protection program. We have low enforcement all around us.
The bad guys can't get to us. Yes, God protects us. Yes no one can take us from Him (but you can walk away if you want to).

But we are only protected "until" we get to the courtroom. The judge can still pass sentence on you at that time.
Jesus only protects us until we get to the judgment. After that you still get judged.

None of the judgments for the people in Matt 7:21-23, Matt 25, 1Cor 6:9, Gal 5.. happened while they "thought" they were Christians on the earth.
God protected the Israelites from the Egyptians, the Red Sea, The heat of day, the cold of night, He fed them manna.. but in the end "after" the journey.. they still didn't get to enter the promised land. No one snatched them out of His hand.. but it didn't make any difference.

No one snatched Judas out of Jesus's hand... but He wasn't saved.
Instead of the idea.. "I'm safe once I get with Jesus"... it's more "I'm safe "until" get with Jesus".
Then the judge will say well done... or throw out that lazy wicked servant.

You don't get thrown out of the kingdom now.. you get thrown out at the end of the age... when the angel gather "get out" His kingdom the trouble makers.

The sovereignty of God doesn't depend on my decisions. He is still in charge no matter what my decision is.
When Adam and Eve ate the fruit.. 100% of the population on Earth was in sin... rebellion against God. Did God quit being God during that time?

 

[Kermos]

Sometimes it is the little words like I give For some reason has lost value. Like I earned etgernal life . He did not receive eternal life from dying mankind he gave it to them

Freely he gives "let there be" freely we have received the power and "it is the good will of Jehovah"

"Let there be new creatures as sons of God born of God" through the faithful power of his living words it became an outward promised demonstration to the whole world, The display of his mighty work of His let there be faith as a labor of His love

If not according to our first birth literal fleshly dying. Then surely not the second birth born again of God

The you must be born again doctrine began in Genesis. Cain and Abel

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it,(the power to believe and understand God) why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Praise Jesus!!!

I thank God for your post!

I am overjoyed to correspond with you who has essentially been crying out a man can receive nothing unless it has been given him from heaven (John 3:27)!

We Christians know that salvation is by God's grace for God's glory, not a work of fleshly man's will, but truly by God's marvelous will!

9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
(John 1:9-13)
​

The love of Christ be with you,
Kermos

 

[Kermos]

This is Calvinism. They and you I guess do not care to even bastardise John 3:16 into 'Jesus only dying for specially selected Christians'.

This is both an EXTREME reading blunder and a GROSS misrepresentation of scripture.

Judgement day with God will NOT GO WELL for such people and you all need to take swimming lessons in my honest opinion.

Matt 18:6 If anyone causes one of these little ones those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Partiality by a Creator is PURE evil. But for some reason clear working minds do just not care. It seems either ears are not working or you and them do not care that you misrepresent God.

Hello KingJ,

You changed your answer to "yes" for the question of:

​

@KingJ, do you believe that you are always a part of the whole world wherever Holy Spirit inspired John wrote the whole world?​

(proof post #62)​

​

In effect, you included yourself as being a part of the whole world in the Holy Spirit inspired Apostle John's "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19); therefore, you free-willians place yourselves in the evil one, yet we Christians are in Christ.

You say you are part of the world by citing John 3:16, so does your free-willian philosophy remain consistent with "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify that its works are evil" (John 7:7)?

Again, you conveyed that you are part of the world by citing John 3:16, so your free-willian philosophy separates you from the loving blessing of Lord Jesus Christ
"I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me" (John 17:9).

You assert that I "bastardise" John 3:16, so it's time to test your spirit, KingJ.

My beloved brother John wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​

The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):

​

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.​

(Numbers 21:8-9)​

​

The third order is to listen to the Master.

Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).

Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.

Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".

Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.

Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).

The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.

For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).

Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).

Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).

Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).

God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).

So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.

Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.

So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).

This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).

The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.

There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.

Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.

If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

KingJ, your prophecy is false about the world being everyone everywhere in all time as recorded in John 3:16.

Your "Judgement day with God will NOT GO WELL for such people and you all need to take swimming lessons in my honest opinion" is null and void.

Believe Jesus!

Love,
Kermos

 

[Garee]

Hello KingJ,

You changed your answer to "yes" for the question of:

​

@KingJ, do you believe that you are always a part of the whole world wherever Holy Spirit inspired John wrote the whole world?​

(proof post #62)​

​

In effect, you included yourself as being a part of the whole world in the Holy Spirit inspired Apostle John's "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19); therefore, you free-willians place yourselves in the evil one, yet we Christians are in Christ.

You say you are part of the world by citing John 3:16, so does your free-willian philosophy remain consistent with "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify that its works are evil" (John 7:7)?

Again, you conveyed that you are part of the world by citing John 3:16, so your free-willian philosophy separates you from the loving blessing of Lord Jesus Christ
"I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me" (John 17:9).

You assert that I "bastardise" John 3:16, so it's time to test your spirit, KingJ.

My beloved brother John wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​

The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):

​

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.​

(Numbers 21:8-9)​

​

The third order is to listen to the Master.

Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).

Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.

Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".

Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.

Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).

The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.

For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).

Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).

Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).

Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).

God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).

So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.

Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.

So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).

This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).

The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.

There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.

Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.

If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

KingJ, your prophecy is false about the world being everyone everywhere in all time as recorded in John 3:16.

Your "Judgement day with God will NOT GO WELL for such people and you all need to take swimming lessons in my honest opinion" is null and void.

Believe Jesus!

Love,
Kermos

Yes "whole world" not just the "Jewish world ".. . . . . . . Gentile and Jew

 

[Bill Taylor]

Hello KingJ,

You changed your answer to "yes" for the question of:

​

@KingJ, do you believe that you are always a part of the whole world wherever Holy Spirit inspired John wrote the whole world?​

(proof post #62)​

​

In effect, you included yourself as being a part of the whole world in the Holy Spirit inspired Apostle John's "the whole world lies in the evil one" (1 John 5:19); therefore, you free-willians place yourselves in the evil one, yet we Christians are in Christ.

You say you are part of the world by citing John 3:16, so does your free-willian philosophy remain consistent with "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify that its works are evil" (John 7:7)?

Again, you conveyed that you are part of the world by citing John 3:16, so your free-willian philosophy separates you from the loving blessing of Lord Jesus Christ
"I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me" (John 17:9).

You assert that I "bastardise" John 3:16, so it's time to test your spirit, KingJ.

My beloved brother John wrote "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1).

The Word "World" in John 3:16 (John 3:14-16)​

The first order is to look at Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:14-16).

The second order is to examine the history of "the serpent in the wilderness" that Jesus mentions (see John 3:14):

​

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.​

(Numbers 21:8-9)​

​

The third order is to listen to the Master.

Jesus sets "the serpent in the wilderness" "lifted up" in relation to "the Son of Man" "lifted up" (all in John 3:14).

Jesus then states "so that every believing will in" Jesus "have eternal life" (John 3:15), but He intensifies this statement by repeating it right away.

Jesus continues with "for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16), and here is where Jesus mentions "world".

Jesus follows up with intensifying his prior declaration (John 3:15) with "that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

The fourth order is to acknowledge the Master's words.

Jesus mentioned "the serpent in the wilderness", so by this He brings up the account of the bronze serpent (John 3:16 includes Numbers 21:8-9).

The relation that Jesus set between the bronze serpent lifted up and Himself lifted up bears significance upon the population of persons that Jesus establishes for the word "world" in John 3:16.

For the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).

Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strongs 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).

Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).

Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

God told Moses that a person bitten by one of the serpents "will live" when the person looks at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (Numbers 21:8) and the results of the bronze serpent that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

In other words, the population of persons associated with living by looking at "the serpent in the wilderness" was restricted to ONLY the bitten persons that looked at the bronze serpent. For simplicity, I'll call this the "population of bitten look livers".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons. This population of persons are not in the "population of bitten look livers". For example, this population of persons could include bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" after the "the serpent in the wilderness" was set on a pole/standard (Numbers 21:9). As another example, this population of persons certainly includes bitten persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness" due to the many people of Israel (Numbers 21:6) who were dead before God Almighty commanded Moses to make the "the serpent in the wilderness" "and set it on a standard" (Numbers 21:8). This population of persons I'll call the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16). There was the "population of bitten look livers"; meanwhile, there was the "population of bitten-non-lookers".

Jesus utilized a comparator in which a group of many persons in the "population of bitten-non-lookers" were incapable of looking at the "the serpent in the wilderness" because that subset of people were dead prior to Moses fashioning the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), so Jesus sets the same standard for a subset of persons in the "world" (John 3:16) because that group of people are incapable of seeing King Jesus (John 3:3-8).

God requires for persons to believe in Jesus in order to be granted eternal life by God (John 3:15, John 3:16).

So, it follows, when Lord Jesus says "God so loved the world" (John 3:16), then specifically He is saying God loves the ones who will believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

This relation set by Jesus establishes that the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:14-16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

Before and after saying "world", Jesus establishes the requirement of believing in Jesus in order for persons to be in the population of persons granted eternal life by God.

Jesus, the Word of God, says "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

Jesus defines righteous faith/belief such that a person believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

Jesus attributes a complete package, a whole gift, a finished work which He refers to as "that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

God deposits "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" in a person as a complete, sufficiently functioning work by God unto salvation of the person with nothing additional by the person as necessary, no choice by the person, no work of a decision by the person, no acceptance by the person, nothing by the person to achieve salvation.

So, "that you believe in Him whom He has sent" is a complete thing with nothing more to add by the person to the righteous faith/belief deposited by God unto being saved from the wrath of God.

Jesus clearly explains that the "believe in Him whom He has sent" is locked inside of the "you" specified by Jesus (John 6:29).

This "locking" is "the work of God" for God secures all of God's own persons unto eternal life (John 10:27-29).

The whole pagkage is done, finished, and complete.

There is nothing more "to be done" by the "you" with the finished package in order to obtain the gift of eternal life in God.

Thus, the only persons with righteous faith/belief implanted by God for a person's salvation are in the population of persons with eternal life in God (John 6:29, John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of God's chosen persons ONLY.

When self-willed persons (2 Peter 2:9-10) define the "world" in John 3:16 as everyone everywhere without exception, then such persons assert that the Truth (Jesus - John 14:6) tells a lie. The deception results because such persons have Jesus losing persons eternally in spite of Him saying "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand" (John 10:28).

The "no one" in "no one will snatch them out of My hand" means no one, not the devil, not the person himself or herself, not another person. The "no one" means absolutely NO ONE.

If the word "world" in John 3:16 includes the population of persons who die while in disbelief/unfaith, then God lost some persons to eternal punishment instead of eternal life.

Since believing in the Son of God whom God the Father has sent is the work of God (John 6:29) and no one will snatch a God rooted believer out of Jesus' hand (John 10:28), then the population of persons represented by the word "world" by Jesus as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:16) must of necessity be only persons who currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus unto eternal life in God.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the "world" as the population of believers, God's chosen persons, existing or yet to be ONLY.

The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

KingJ, your prophecy is false about the world being everyone everywhere in all time as recorded in John 3:16.

Your "Judgement day with God will NOT GO WELL for such people and you all need to take swimming lessons in my honest opinion" is null and void.

Believe Jesus!

Love,
Kermos

Kermos, is cherry-picking texts and forgetting context a Christ-like thing to do? You do this with a post and to be a Five Point Calvinist, you must do the same thing to the scriptures.

 

[Curtis]

Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

 

[Curtis]

Divine "Providence"

Divine Providence is God foreseeing everything that will happen before it happens.

The word "Providence" is made up of two Latin words. "Pro", which means "before", and "videre", which means "see"
God foresaw everything before it happened.

Another meaning is, "God conceived as the power sustaining and guiding human destiny."

God is in "control" of everything because everything was created by God, and He sustains and holds everything together by a word of His power.

Not only does God know everything that will happen, but he also knows all the possibilities of what could have happened. (people making bad choices)

If God is in "control" of everything, then why would I need "faith" for anything? Why not just let things play out as God controls them without any help from mankind?

The reason is that if I want all things to work together for my good, then I would need "faith" (which also comes from God as a gift) in him to work them out for me! Not all men have faith; only those who will receive him are given that power. (This requires a free will choice)

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose.

If a person loves God, then he will keep his commandments. If a person loves God, he will place all of his faith and trust in Him because without faith it is impossible to please God. (Heb 11:6)

 

[Kermos]

If you teach us about an EVIL God, then it is not my God talking to you. It is either yourself or the devil.



Well clearly not. If you do not know love you do not know God as God is love 1 John 4:8. God would never be partial.

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I am not going to reply to the rest of your drivel. I just can't be bothered talking to an elusive and intellectually dishonest person who will not state that partiality is evil and not possible by a good God.

It is bad enough trying discuss with a Calvinist and now you present yourself as one but do not want to be known as one.

Oh KingJ,

You just now called Lord Jesus Christ your "EVIL God" because all the good sayings of the Christ of us Christians quoted below are the sayings that you wickedly apply to "the devil".

No Word of God you cite states man was imparted a free-will to choose toward God, but here is the Word of God which clearly states man does not choose God to any degree!

The gracious Benefactor, Christ, of us Christians exclusively produces

1. divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says “you did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16) and “I chose you out of the world” (John 15:19)
   AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Ephesians “Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love” (Ephesians 1:3-4)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God
2. beneficiaries’ faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
   “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent” (John 6:29)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for Paul wrote to the Ephesians “by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His work” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for Peter declared “God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith” (Acts 15:8-9)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is exclusively by/of/through God
3. beneficiaries’ fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “he who practices the Truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they are having been worked in God” (John 3:21)
   AND Paul is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to the Philippians “being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God” (Philippians 1:11)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is exclusively by/of/through God
4. beneficiaries’ birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (John 3:3) as well as “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit” (John 3:5-8)
   AND Peter is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead” (1 Peter 1:3)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is exclusively by/of/through God
5. beneficiaries’ repent by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes” (Matthew 11:25)
   AND the apostles and elders are in accord with Jesus’ words with thier saying, “Well then, God has given to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life” (Acts 11:18)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in Matthew 11:25 state that God exclusively causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)
6. beneficiaries’ love by God’s working, for the Christ of us Christians says
   “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another” (John 13:34)
   AND John is in accord with Jesus’ words for he wrote “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God” (1 John 4:7, see the phrase “love is from God” meaning God is the source of true love)
   AND John expands with his writing of “God is Love, and the one who abides in Love abides in God, and God abides in him” (1 John 4:16, see the phrase “one who abides in Love” is equivocated with “one who abides” “in God” which extends from God’s exclusivity with “God is Love”)
   SO, clearly, Jesus’ words in John 13:34 states that the love, true love (John 3:33), the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is exclusively by/of/through God

And here we have the exclusive Way with absolute Truth in everlasting Life (John 14:6), the love of Christ controls us Christians (2 Corinthians 5:14)!

Believe Christ!

Love,
Kermos