Paul - the apostle.

[Rhema]

Why do you do this...you put words in people's mouths and lie about them?

I did not. I Absolutely did not.

Here is what you said:

If you do not trust Scripture and doubt the Gospel message revealed to Paul, you wouldn't understand how to be saved.

The Gospel message revealed to Paul is by definition the Faith that Paul taught = Paul's Faith. And if one doesn't understand how to be saved, then how can one be saved? (They can't.)

The conclusion then, from your own words, is...

.... one can only be saved through Paul's faith.

You have literally stated that one can only be saved through the Gospel message revealed to Paul (i.e. Paul's Faith).

I am truly sorry if you don't understand what your own words mean when you post them. But I'm not putting words in your mouth. What I wrote is the meaning that is coming out of your words. If you mean something different, then you ought to be more clear when you write.

Find someone you trust who has a better grasp of the language, and discuss this with them (say a former 10th grade English teacher) before you start accusing me of things I did not do.

So what is the point of discussing the bible with someone who doesn't believe it and likes to make up lies?

As proven above, I did not make up lies. But the point is that you might actually learn something. Now? You're just trying to find excuses so that you can avoid uncomfortable discussions that don't fit into your cozy echo chamber. I could just as easily say, "What is the point of discussing the Bible with someone who has NEVER studied the historical origins of the Bible?" (It doesn't seem like you have. Maybe I'm wrong.)

The answer, though, is the same. You might learn something. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that you don't WANT to learn anything, but would rather just argue with people. I hope I'm wrong, but it's unlikely.

Have you received Jesus in your body?

What does that even mean? Do you realize that your question is VERY Catholic? If not, then it's a very vague question. During Mass, the Catholic believes that the wafer and wine literally turn into the blood and body of Jesus, which is to be received in your body. Are you asking me if I believe in Transubstantiation (LINK)? I don't. ARE you Catholic?

At this point, though, I can readily testify that I have been Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, even with evidence of speaking in tongues, amongst other manifestations of the Spirit.

So instead of replying to your novel full of lies and semantics....

Just be honest and admit that you didn't read it, or didn't understand most of it and are too embarrassed to ask questions. (You certainly misused the word semantics - look it up.)

Your study has driven you mad,

From my perspective, you haven't studied at all. Especially since this is a compliment, an accusation that was hurled at Paul.

So thank you for placing me in the same category as your apostle.

And as he thus spake for himself, Festus said with a loud voice, Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.​

- Acts 26:24 KJV

your little knowledge of Greek

And how would you know? Now who's lying and making things up. I've provided my CV. Have you even been within smelling distance of a seminary? These kinds of insults are what insecure little people hurl when they pretend to know something they don't and are afraid to be found out.

So just tell me. Maybe you're a full tenured professor at the Dallas Theological Seminary. Or maybe you just need some positive encouragement to take the first baby step. But stepping on others ... is that what you think is Christ like?

... has made you reject most of New Testament teachings and doctrines for the church.

Well congratulations, now you're putting words in my mouth. From my perspective you have rejected the very Words of Christ as recorded in the Gospel texts, preached by Peter in Acts chapter two and Paul in Acts chapter 13, (before Paul changed his Gospel message). And I think you meant to write, "teachings and doctrines OF the church."

But can you be honest and at least admit to yourself that you haven't really read my posts? And I have no doubt that you actually skipped over the scripture verses I posted to provide context, so you have no idea what I reject or accept. So go back and re-read what I wrote. I mean ACTUALLY read it, along with the scriptures provided. What I reject is any and every teaching that does not conform to that which has come from the mouth of the Son of God directly. And I reject any and every teaching that contradicts the LOGOS (Teaching) of Jesus the Christ as recorded in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

That should be easy to understand. What I find difficult is why you don't.

Now with regards to rejecting the "teachings and doctrines OF the church," ... Which Church? The Roman Catholic? Yes. Yes I do. The Greek Orthodox? Yes. Yes I do. The Protestant church? (So, so very many to choose from.) But yes. Yes I do. I reject them all, when they disagree with the LOGOS (Teaching of Jesus), as any disciple of Christ should.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every RHEMA that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.​

- Matthew 4:4 KJV

We are to live by the RHEMA of God, not the "teachings and doctrines of the church." Their traditions have made a laughingstock of the Son of God, and turned him into a human blood sacrifice offered up to the gods like the pagan Aztecs.

(You might want to go find out what the Greek word RHEMA means.)

But since you think Jesus is God, then why don't YOU live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jesus?

Do you? (It's an easy question.) It seems like you've trashed all of it.

But I live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jesus. That's the Gospel I follow - every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of Jesus. (Jesus, not Paul, except to where Paul's word conforms to that of Jesus.)

the New Testament doesn't come into effect until the death of the testator,

Yeah, people get really tripped up on that word "testament." It's the same Greek word as also translated "Covenant." And the Covenant of Jesus is composed of both the Word (the body of the Teachings of Jesus) and the New Wine of the Spirit (Acts chapter 2). An honest translator wouldn't use two different English words for the same Greek word. See? That's where your complete and utter ignorance of Greek can get you into trouble. You can't see where the translations lie to you.

I recommend this book: (if you can't afford it, I'll buy one for you)

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek…

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament does thr…

www.goodreads.com

your fake Greek

Boy, you are truly a nasty piece of work. Needing to vilify others to build yourself up.

your fake Greek has turned you away from the bible, and your goal is to publicly cast doubt on it.

Reading the New Testament texts in Greek has turned me towards obeying the Teachings and Commandments of Jesus Christ the Son of God. But you are right to the extent that I don't believe in the Bible. I believe in God and in Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God and the Gospel that He taught and commanded his Apostles to also teach.

Your goal, though, is to turn people away from Jesus, publicly casting doubt on His teachings and supplanting them with teachings from Paul.

You don't even have the decency to address the fact that the disciples followed Jesus AFTER he died and rose again.

As a matter of fact, you lied and said they didn't.

Paul taught the other deciples about this as jesus hadn't died when the twelve where following him on earth

C'mon, be a man and admit this is just plain wrong. The twelve were following Jesus on earth AFTER he died and rose again.

Can you at least agree with that?

You are using the Old Testament before Jesus offered himself as the one-time eternal sacrifice for sins forever.

WHAT ???
The Teachings of Jesus are in the New Testament.

But with regards to your claim of a "one-time eternal sacrifice for sins forever," where did Jesus teach this? Where did Jesus EVER say that he was going to be a sacrifice to pay for your sins?

It's not in Matthew.
It's not in Mark.
It's not in Luke.
It's not in John.

So ???????????????
(It's a serious question.)

Other people said this about Jesus so that you would stop following His Teachings and His Commandments.

You're preaching a different Gospel than what Jesus taught.

your sin needs to be dealt with before you can be born again.

So Peter was wrong? Even AFTER being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

- Acts 2:38 KJV

So your answer....this time....As I notice it keeps changing, is repent and pray, and hope he will forgive you?

Dude, you really need that reading comprehension course if you think my answer keeps changing. But one doesn't need to "hope" that the Father will forgive you. The Father sent His Son to TELL you that He will forgive you (and without any sacrifices, human or animal).

That's where my Faith lies. In what the Son of God taught.

Repentance that saves is to put your faith in Jesus as your saviour,

One doesn't have faith in Jesus if one rejects His teachings (as you have done). Of course Jesus is my saviour. He taught me the way to get saved.

When someone puts their faith in Jesus, God takes the person's sin, gives them his righteousness, and they become the righteousness of God in Christ.

When someone puts their faith in Jesus, they learn of him, they learn his LOGOS (His Teachings) and obey them.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.​

- Matthew 11:28-30 KJV

And Jesus taught that the Father forgives your sin, and imparts His Holy Spirit when asked in prayer.

Tell me this. Do you REALLY think that after a person was baptized for the remission (forgiveness) of sin by John the Baptist that they had to get re-baptized over and over and over? The same with Jesus? The same with Peter?

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.​

- Mark 1:4 KJV

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.​

- Mark 1:8 KJV

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

- Mark 1:14-15 KJV

But you've said that the Disciples had to learn the Gospel from Paul.

Paul taught the other deciples about this (the Gospel)

You have to be forgiven of all sin before you can be born again, and sin is dealt with at the cross.

You don't think that the Father forgives all your sin when you Repent in accordance with the Command of Jesus and the sermon given by Peter?

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

- Acts 2:37-38 KJV

Peter didn't say anything about the cross or blood or any of that. Did Peter mislead these people? Even under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

At least answer this one question honestly.....If someone is saved, what do you think keeps them saved?

I've answered this before, without guile and in the Truth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

We are kept by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The gift of New Wine that was poured out INTO the disciples, and all who actually believe the LOGOS (Teaching of Jesus) and Obey the commands of Jesus - The Gospel that Jesus taught which He commanded His disciples to preach.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

- Matthew 28:19-20 KJV

Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.​

- Mark 16:14-16 KJV

Why in God's name would the Son of God command His disciples to preach the Gospel if they had yet to be taught it by Paul?

That doesn't make sense.

Why did Jesus die on the cross?

Because the Jews murdered Him. (To shut him up.)

Or did Peter lie about that too?

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:​

- Acts 2:22-23 KJV

There is another reason, though. It's hard to be resurrected from the dead if you're not .... dead. And God resurrected Jesus to prove that HIS Gospel was true.

Agape,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

You must either believe he was taught of Jesus, filled of the Holy Spirit, through what is told of him in scriptures, or you don't.

That is extremely BLACK and WHITE thinking.

When is anything ever black and white?

The Gospel that Paul preached in Acts 13 is the exact same Gospel as taught by Jesus and testified to by Peter.

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

- Acts 13:38 KJV

Please, read the entire sermon preached by Paul. There is nothing in there about any blood paying for sin by any sacrifice on a cross.

It's not there. Why?

Something changed in the latter part of Paul's ministry, where he changed what he preached.

So it's not all black and white. Somewhere and for some reason (I think I know why) Paul left the Faith that he initially preached in Acts 13.

Agape,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

For if it is not of God, then it is of the Devil, and you who would believe in Jesus and not in Paul as an Apostle, know the words of the Lord concerning this, in Matthew 12:25. Paul the Apostle would not have been able to do what he did,

There are other words of the Lord:

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.​

- Matthew 24:4-5 KJV

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​

- Matthew 24:24 KJV

This is not a black and white matter.

Agape,
Rhema
P.S. What I will say is, reject the Spirit filled words of Jesus at your own peril.

 

[Deep Seeker]

To Prophecy is to declare the will of God. It not necessarily a blank book In Jude's mention.

The prophecy is limited to 10 words Same fact given Deuteronomy 33:2

Jude 14-15 ;And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,(Not this book) Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,;To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Deuteronomy 33:2 And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

I have read The Book Of enoch -- Interesting and wroth the read.

 

[Deep Seeker]

That's not what is written. It is an evil and false translation by brainwashed religious people.

Here is what is written -

και οτι απο βρεφους τα ιερα γραμματα οιδας τα δυναμενα σε σοφισαι εις σωτηριαν δια πιστεως της εν χριστω ιησου πασα γραφη θεοπνευστος και ωφελιμος προς διδασκαλιαν προς ελεγχον προς επανορθωσιν προς παιδειαν την εν δικαιοσυνη ινα αρτιος η ο του θεου ανθρωπος προς παν εργον αγαθον εξηρτισμενος​

2 Tim 3:15-17

And when you can read Greek, you will realize that you've been lied to.


Paul was not the Son of God sent to bring the Gospel to all Mankind. Paul is not, nor ever was Jesus.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

- Mark 1:14-15 KJV

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached, and none other. Period. NO OTHER Gospel should or can be preached than that which was brought by the Son of God. Any other Gospel than what Jesus preached is heresy. Period.


Jesus is our savior, not Paul.

Do you think Jesus was so inept and stupid as to be unable to bring the Gospel message to all Mankind, and that he was unable to ensure that his Twelve could understand what Jesus taught and then deliver a saving Gospel message?

That's pure heresy to say that only Paul understood and only people who follow Paul can be saved.

If you do not trust Jesus and doubt the Gospel that HE preached, you are lost dear sir. Utterly lost, and have denied Jesus before men.


Paul wrote that. Jesus ever said anything remotely similar. It's not part of the teaching of Jesus.

Paul is teaching you to curse your enemies, where Jesus said to bless them that curse you. Who will YOU follow?

You have denied Jesus before men. And Jesus will deny you before the Father.


One doesn't need "most of the New Testament" to answer the question "what saves you." The answer is easy.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.​

- Mark 16:15-16 KJV

See? Nothing said about Paul at all. Are you saying that the words of Jesus are insufficient? Inadequate? Wrong?

The obvious question, then, though, is - what is one to believe? The simple answer is that one should believeth what Jesus taught. So, if you ignore the LOGOS (Teachings) of Jesus, how would you answer what saves you?

Jesus was raised from the dead to prove to all mankind that the Teachings HE (and He alone) proclaimed is truly the Word of God.

Obedience to the Teachings of Jesus saves you. Period.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:​

- Luke 6:46-47 KJV

Do you doeth them? Do you even hearth them? Or are you listening to a different voice called Paul? Even Paul (at the start of his ministry) commanded YOU to listen to Jesus Teachings:

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

- Acts 13:38 KJV

Jesus preached how one's sins get forgiven. Not Paul, not Moses, not the Levites, not Abraham. And if your sins are forgiven, how are you not saved?

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

- Acts 2:37-38 KJV


I have been sealed by the gift of the Holy Ghost (see scripture above). And I let what I heard from the beginning abide in me. That Jesus was sent by God to preach the Gospel for the salvation of all mankind.

Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father.​

- 1 John 2:24 NRSV

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.​

- John 15:10 KJV

Do you keep the commandments of Jesus? One would hope so because:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.​

- John 8:51 KJV

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.​

- John 7:16-18 KJV

Do you believe that which Jesus taught? (And obey these teachings?) Or do you believe what people teach that Paul taught (where obedience is irrelevant)? (There is a difference)


So why do you think that your sins are forgiven? How did you become saved? I truly would like to know.

In the truth of the Teachings of Jesus,
Rhema

Rhema
You mean that Bible translations are just That; translations by someone. Don't shake Their pot to much.
Deepseeker

 

[Deep Seeker]

I wonder how many have read any of E.W. Bullinger's writings, and what they think of Them ? I have read Them for many years.

Deepseeker

 

[Deep Seeker]

Jesus ask His disciples this question. "Who do men say I am ?"
Only Peter had the correct answer !
Who did Peter say Jesus was ?
This will change the mind of many!
Deepseeker

 

[Christ4Ever]

Please, read the entire sermon preached by Paul. There is nothing in there about any blood paying for sin by any sacrifice on a cross.

Because he was talking to the Jews. Who understood that a sacrifice is not bloodless, and that it is in the blood that you have redemption. The Jews knew this after all theirs was a sacrificial system instituted as part of atonement. I guess one could read Leviticus to get that understanding for which it was unnecessary for Paul to talk of because it was clearly understood by them already. The focus had to be Jesus. Now that was a different concept altogether! Alleluia!

"Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took [Him] down from the tree and laid [Him] in a tomb. Acts 13:29 NKJV

And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. Hebrews 9:22 NKJV

I never heard the same sermon over and over again, unless it was recorded though the theme has remained the same.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

For if it is not of God, then it is of the Devil, and you who would believe in Jesus and not in Paul as an Apostle, know the words of the Lord concerning this, in Matthew 12:25. Paul the Apostle would not have been able to do what he did,

There are other words of the Lord:

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.​

- Matthew 24:4-5 KJV

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​

- Matthew 24:24 KJV

This is not a black and white matter.

Agape,
Rhema
P.S. What I will say is, reject the Spirit filled words of Jesus at your own peril.

So, you want the battling of the words of Jesus against himself to be the battlefield? Who do you think will win? Surely not you or I!

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do, because I go to My Father. John 14:12 NKJV

I think raising Eutychus might fall in that category of "great signs and wonders" Jesus spoke of but to what purpose when nothing big was made of it. Unless you consider me bringing it up here, of great importance. lol However Matthew 12:25 does fit rather well here.

And in a window sat a certain young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep. He was overcome by sleep; and as Paul continued speaking, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. Acts 20:9 NKJV

There is a preponderance of scriptural evidence to suggest that my statement is true. Maybe not for you to believe, but for most people.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. What I will also say is, reject the Spirit filled words of Jesus at your own peril.

 

[Seethat]

What does that even mean? Do you realize that your question is VERY Catholic? If not, then it's a very vague question. During Mass, the Catholic believes that the wafer and wine literally turn into the blood and body of Jesus, which is to be received in your body. Are you asking me if I believe in Transubstantiation (LINK)? I don't. ARE you Catholic?

At this point, though, I can readily testify that I have been Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, even with evidence of speaking in tongues, amongst other manifestations of the Spirit.

If you take out your accusations out there is not really much to respond to....but yes, you try to talk in tongues, you call it your Greek...it has you denying the New Testament. not a good sign, So you have received a different Spirit than Jesus, I thought so...It was a crucial question

The Gospel message revealed to Paul is by definition the Faith that Paul taught = Paul's Faith.

That's nonsense, Paul taught about Jesus. and in his Gospel about how Jesus died for our sins is what you don't believe it, that's why you post in response to why Jesus died on the cross below

Because the Jews murdered Him. (To shut him up.)

He died for our sins it is the first line of the Gospel message lol, you deny all the important aspects of what it means to be a Christian, you can accuse all you want but you haven't received Jesus and you bring a different Gospel, that is all fact so you are not in the faith to teach the church anything the bible calls it rebrobate and you are to be considered cursed because you bring a different Gospel than the church is to accept. That's all plain fact

But since you think Jesus is God

Jesus is God, The Father calls him God

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Thomas calls him God

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus is almighty Rev 1:8 .

So yea at this point ill try and help your confusion if you stop accusing and going off tangent and trying to make up things up to try and springboard off, you write a novel and throw so many points out out of context it reminds me of talking to jw's.....Cut the accusations and stick to the points, and then I'll answer your questions and we can keep on topic, see if we can get you straightened out.

​

​

 

[Garee]

There are other words of the Lord:

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.​

- Matthew 24:4-5 KJV

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.​

- Matthew 24:24 KJV

This is not a black and white matter.

Agape,
Rhema
P.S. What I will say is, reject the Spirit filled words of Jesus at your own peril.

Sign to wonder, wonder, marvel after is not prophecy (sola scriptura)

Mathew 24 supports sola scriptura. It's the antichrists (another teaching authority other than all things written in the law and prophets" or Moses and Elias.

The Spirit filled words called the rhema are limited to sola scriptura all things written in the law and prophets and not as the Pharisees with Sadducees or today Roman Catholic with East Orthodox. Two sects that continue to deceive the non-venerable pew warmers by adding to the living words Two sects that put aside their difference in an attempt of make sola scriptura without effect.

Acts24:13-14Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.But this I confess unto thee, that after the way (sola scriptura) which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Not worshipping a legion of fathers as if one Father (Greek and Roman mythology) Jupiter or Zeus

Acts14:11-12;And when the people saw (sign and wonder seeker) what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of (dying mankind) men And they called Barnabas, Jupiter (Zeus) ; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

 

[Garee]

I have read The Book Of enoch -- Interesting and wroth the read.

What did you think of it?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

What did you think of it?

Here you go... > The Banned Prophet: Examining Why the Book of Enoch Was Purged from the Canon

 

[Rhema]

Rhema
You mean that Bible translations are just That; translations by someone. Don't shake Their pot to much.
Deepseeker

To be more accurate, translations are rarely "by someone" (to mean an individual). They are typically by committee and funded by a specific denomination that already has established doctrines, beliefs, and traditions of faith that they want their Bible to support. Look at the motive behind specific translations, even the KJV and you'll know why I decided to learn Koine Greek for myself 50 years ago. I know translators who have been fired because they refused to go along with the desired (mis)phrasing of the organization paying for the translation. Bias is evil (and that flat out describes the NIV).

One exception, of course, is Martin Luther who by himself translated the New Testament into German for the SOLE purpose of proving that his doctrine of Soteriology (how one gets saved) was right, and that the Pope's was wrong. The ironic thing is that Martin Luther had to change two verses in his German Bible so that they would line up with his "Salvation by faith alone" heresy.

Luther's BIG mistake, though, was that he could not conceive that other people could read the exact same German and arrive at a completely different understanding than he did. Drove him furious.

(Sorry your PM hasn't been sent yet.)
Rhema

PS: Do you mean "Stir the pot too much?"
(I think I stir it just the right amount. )

 

[Rhema]

Only Peter had the correct answer !

Or was the only one bold enough to answer. Even then, Peter had to be given the correct answer.

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.​

- Matthew 16:16-17 KJV

The Father blessed Peter by revealing it to him.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Because he was talking to the Jews. Who understood that a sacrifice is not bloodless, and that it is in the blood that you have redemption.

Jews who understood wrongly.... That was the whole point of why the Father had to send a Messiah - because Judaism (whichever flavor) was wrong.

For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.​

- Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV
(Be sure to read the entire chapter)

I guess one could read Leviticus to get that understanding...

How can you say, "We are wise, and the TORAH (which includes Leviticus) of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?​

- Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV
(Be sure to read the entire chapter)

Which parts were made into a lie? See previous verse.

When Paul said through this man JESUS...

Let it be known to you therefore, my brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you;​

- Acts 13:38 NRSV

He actually meant "this man" (Jesus) - not Moses, not Abraham, Not the Levites.

Since the WAY to obtain the forgiveness of sin was proclaimed to you by JESUS, then, one would think it obvious to go find out what Jesus said about how to obtain the forgiveness of sin.

There was nothing in the sermon of Paul in Acts 13 about blood payment for sin.
There was nothing in the sermon of Peter in Acts 2 about blood payment for sin.
There was nothing in the Teachings of Jesus about blood payment for sin.
Nothing in the Sermon on the Mount. (Instead, the Father forgives sin.)
Nothing in the Sermon on the Plain. (Instead, the Father forgives sin.)

And YES, I am well aware of the teaching that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.

But John the Baptist taught a remission of sin without the shedding of blood.

John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.​

- Mark 1:4 KJV

John preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin, not the blood sacrifice of animals. John never set up any alters in Galilee to have animals sacrificed, nor was there any indication that after the baptism of repentance one had to go back to the temple and offer anything.

Do I need to post the scripture that Jesus preached the same good news as John with regards to the baptism of repentance for the remission (same word as forgiveness) of sins?

And all here should know that Jesus Stopped DEAD all the sacrifices in the Temple, including the grain sacrifices. The temple wasn't ever for sacrifices, but was to be a house of prayer for all nations.

For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.​

- Psalms 51:16-17 KJV

(The sacrifice of a broken spirit and contrite heart don't need blood, Nick.)

Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah. Offer the sacrifices of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD.​

- Psalms 4:4-5 KJV

Do I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? Offer to God a sacrifice of thanksgiving, and pay your vows to the Most High.​

- Psalms 50:13-14 NRSV

(The sacrifice of thanksgiving doesn't need blood, Nick.)

All these things my hand has made, and so all these things are mine, says the LORD. But this is the one to whom I will look, to the humble and contrite in spirit, who trembles at my word. Whoever slaughters an ox is like one who kills a human being; whoever sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever presents a grain offering, like one who offers swine's blood; whoever makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like one who blesses an idol. These have chosen their own ways, and in their abominations they take delight; I also will choose to mock them, and bring upon them what they fear; because, when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, they did not listen; but they did what was evil in my sight, and chose what did not please me. ​

- Isaiah 66:2-4 NRSV

There is no record at all of Jesus ever bringing any animal sacrifice to the Temple.
Did I miss something? Maybe. Let me know.

There is no record at all of the Twelve ever bringing any animal sacrifice to the Temple.
Did I miss something? Maybe. Let me know.

NOW TO BE CLEAR....

First, I realize how radical and unsettling this post might be. But the purpose of my post was to show that from the time of John even up to the sermon of Paul in Acts13, there was no mention at all of Jesus being any blood sacrifice to pay for sin.

In Acts 13, Paul mentioned not one word of Jesus being the blood sacrifice to pay for sins. (THAT'S MY POINT.)

Did Paul start to preach that Jesus was a blood payment later on? It would seem so. I have my suspicions why, but that's besides the point.

FINALLY,
I understand that my post here flows a bit outside the boundaries of the OP.
So I WILL NOT REPLY in this thread to any replies.
Instead, there is already a thread called Blasphemy where I am taken to task and comments may be posted.

Here is a LINK to the thread where I have posted some additional comments that expand on the topic.

And NO, this is not an admission that my views are blasphemy, although most of y'all might believe that (and I understand why). It is, though, a more comprehensive statement and rationale of what I believe that anything I've posted before.

Please realize that I AM OPEN to being shown where I might be in error with what I've stated.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Now that was a different concept altogether! Alleluia!

Offering up a human blood sacrifice to pay for sin?

How wonderfully Aztec.

 

[Rhema]

There is a preponderance of scriptural evidence to suggest that my statement is true.

It wasn't clear which statement you were referring to.

I raised Walter from the dead, so it's rather not a big deal to me.

Maranatha,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

...but yes, you try to talk in tongues, you call it your Greek...

Uh... no I don't. (And speaking of accusations.... )

You're batting like 1,000 for being wrong.
You should stop while you're behind.

..it has you denying the New Testament.

I am 100% sure that you've never studied the origin of the New Testament.
Do you know where your New Testament came from?
You don't, do you.

Allow me to help you out....

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I do hope, though, that it wouldn't be above your head.

That's nonsense, Paul taught about Jesus.

I would suggest that you use a dictionary to find out what the word Faith means. But if your emotional meltdown makes you feel good, have fun.

Paul wrote about Paul's teachings. Paul didn't write about Jesus' teachings. (Maybe once?)

Jesus said to follow him.
Paul said to follow Paul.

Do you need the scripture reference? Hmmm... Yeah, you probably do.

For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.​

- 1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV

I find that troubling. I also find it troubling that you don't find it troubling.

He died for our sins it is the first line of the Gospel message

Well yeah, the Gospel that Paul taught in the latter part of his ministry.

But it's not the Gospel that Jesus taught.

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;​

- 1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV

Well he didn't receive it from the Twelve. Because Jesus never preached it. Even AFTER he rose from the dead.

The thing is, it's another twist from the translators. "For" is G5228 ὑπέρ which means "because of." Jesus did indeed die because of the sins of the Jews who murdered him.

So "He died for our sins" is NOT the first line of the Gospel message that Jesus taught.
Here, let me prove it.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

- Mark 1:14-15 KJV

The first line of the Gospel is REPENT. At least that's what Jesus said. (So who do you follow again?)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

- Acts 2:38 KJV

you deny all the important aspects of what it means to be a Christian,

And I can say that you deny all the important aspects of what Jesus taught.

Would I be wrong to say that you could remove all four Gospels from your New Testament (except maybe the crucifixion and resurrection) and it wouldn't change what you believe one whit?

Let me rephrase, it seems that you could remove ALL of the teachings of Jesus from your New Testament and it wouldn't affect your Faith at all.

Wow.

you can accuse all you want but you haven't received Jesus and you bring a different Gospel,

I believe the Gospel that Jesus taught. So, yes I have a different Gospel than what you believe. And I'm sure you have a different Gospel than what the Catholic believes. Do you also hate Catholics?

The fact that you mock the gift of speaking in tongues says quite a lot. The fact that you delight to curse me also says quite a lot. (Do I need to re-post that?)

Jesus is God, The Father calls him God
Hebrews 1:8

Well that's certainly the opinion of the author of Hebrews, but it's not quite how the Hebrew or LXX actually reads in the Psalm he quotes.

You provide me with a translation made by Trinitarians, so I'm not surprised that the Bias is Trinitarian. (And yes, most all published English Bibles are produced by Trinitarians, so you just can't see the mistake.)

I'd give you the screen shot of the Hebrew interlinear, but that feature is not available here. So here's a LINK for you. Suffice it to say that I (and others) read Psalm 45:6 as "Your throne is God, forever and ever (i.e. the Eternal one), a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom."

The Psalm is talking about the King of Israel, which can be extrapolated to Jesus the King, but the Hebrew says that the King's throne is God, meaning that the source of the authority he relies upon is God, the eternal one, and his scepter (his decrees) must be righteous.

I've dealt with John 20:28 about Thomas elsewhere, but suffice it to say the Greek doesn't say what you think your English does.

Also, I've been very open that the book of Revelation is not in our canon and never was. (cf. The Church of the East started by Thomas the Apostle.)

So... you might as well be quoting the Quran for all that matters to me.

So yea at this point ill try and help your confusion if you stop accusing

You mean pointing out you were wrong quite a number of times, like with saying that the disciples never saw Jesus after he rose from the dead? And that Paul had to teach the Apostles the true Gospel?

Just a quick question. DO you use a Scofield Bible?

That said, kind sir, I don't think I'm the one who is confused. But how about you stop your accusations that I can't read Greek?

you write a novel

See, that tells me you have some reading problems. Can't quite deal with complex issues. To me, though, it's a compliment. My posts are comprehensive. I don't do trite one liners.

it reminds me of talking to jw's.....

HA... Poisoning the Well... good one. Pffttt.

then I'll answer your questions and we can keep on topic, see if we can get you straightened out.

Well you could have spent the time answering my questions now, but you didn't.

And once more, since you want things straight, I am an Acts 2:38 Christian.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

- Acts 2:38 KJV

But there's really only one question I would have you answer.

Does the Father forgive sins? Or does the blood of Jesus pay the Father for your sins?

Rhema

 

[Seethat]

Does the Father forgive sins? Or does the blood of Jesus pay the Father for your sins?

​

God purchased the church with his own blood

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Listen.... here is your problem...You don't believe Paul, so you would be calling Peter a liar

2 Peter 3
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So you reject all the deciples teachings, you would be rejecting all the New Testament and then to back it up, you call Jesus a devil, while admitting you have not received Jesus,You say Jesus didn't die for our sins, And you reject the Gospel the Church is to consider you cursed if you do....What's left to talk about, your Greek you don't understand properly?