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Where do we go when we die?

And people say doctrines aren't dangerous.
Amen.
The fruits and the language reveal who are in Christ.
While condemnation, mocking insults, pejoratives, in Christ's name , show who are not.

False doctrines produce plastic fruit. The real tragedy is the false one's first believe God does not see.
 
Is it? By whom?

We are ALL ministers of God's Grace, when born again from above.

What is a Christian?

We will not find it in scripture.

Shalom
I accept you cannot answer. And the post wherein you spoke of writing a sermon was false.

Thank you.
 
English Standard Version
But as for you, teach what accords with sound doctrine.

New International Version
He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.

American Standard Version
Hold the pattern of sound words which thou hast heard from me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 2:1
But as for you, speak the things that are consistent with sound doctrine.

Shame on you "Butch5", I thought you knew the Word "Doctrine"and what it means! SHAME on you.

For "GOD" has commanded us to "Hold To "SOUND DOCTRINE" that cannot be "Refuted" For This is the "Will of GOD" That is why HE TOLD us:

New American Standard Bible
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
English Standard Version
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

But many christians has "PROCLAIM" you don't need all of THAT! Making GOD words into LIES! and "DISCOURAGING Others" to not To STUDY and Burn the MID-Night Oil! "JEALOUSY" is Cruel than The Grave"

For many, do not want to be "SLOP HOGS". They want, "
The FRESH MANNA that Comes DOWN from HEAVEN" THAT ONLY A "GOD" CAN GIVE.
WE ARE "SPIRITUAL CREATURES" "BORN OF HEAVEN" "BORN OF GOD" No more Earthly BUT "HEAVENLY"! "NEW CREATURES" Created in "Christ JESUS" :pensive:
The thing is, they didn't teach what you've stated.

Sorry, we're not spiritual creatures. Anyone who stubs their toe knows that.
 
The thing is, they didn't teach what you've stated.

Sorry, we're not spiritual creatures. Anyone who stubs their toe knows that.
:laughing:

Oh, come on, I've heard some very spirited remarks disrupt the quiet in our home when hubby's toes meet an immovable object. :eyes::p
 
The thing is, they didn't teach what you've stated.

Sorry, we're not spiritual creatures. Anyone who stubs their toe knows that.
you ain't even read The BOOK, you to lazy! Hop skip and jump is your Specialities.:p
 
Not verbatim but the gospel is nothing but about Christians ( believers)...that's odd coming from you?!
Where are these people coming from? And why are "The true Children of GOD" letting them run "AMOK"! Unconverted running wild and saying anything they want to say among "The Chosen Few".
They Don't even know what the word "Gospel" mean. Little 5 years olds knows what the word gospel means.

"The word gospel is derived from the Anglo-Saxon term god-spell, meaning “good story,” a rendering of the Latin evangelium and the Greek euangelion, meaning “good news” or good telling.” Since the late 18th century the first three have been called the Synoptic Gospels, because the texts, set side by side," show a ...

In the Bible, there are different kinds of "GOSPELS"! But the Most important "Good News" is "The Good News According to what JESUS has said" in other words, The Gospel ACCORDING To JESUS CHRIST". Then There is "THE GOOD NEWS according to Matthew. Then There is "The Good News according to Mark" Then There is "The Good news according to Luke" which are called the" 3 SYNOPTICS" Then There is "The Good news according to John the Apostle"
Then when have "The Good news according to Apostle Paul" in which the good news is written in Letters. Which is called "The Epistles"

If Jesus does not hurry up and return in the next decade, christians will have Jesus portrayed as a Truck driver hauling sheep. They are doing everything else. They got Jesus as gay, married to Mary Magdalene, Jesus has a daughter. they rewrite the bible everywhere they can and other christians back them up. A KNOWN fact! they get Rich off of His NAME. And promote "Antinomianism" as His Religion.
And it has been "Proven" around the whole world over Half the PASTORS and Ministers do not even know What "The GOSPEL According to JESUS CHRIST" is!

You have a whole lot of Christians who Think they Know what "The GOOD NEWS ACCORDING to JESUS CHRIST" is, BUT they Don't! And if you do try to tell Them "THE TRUTH" they want to destroy you! The DEVIL is That ANGRY to stop the TRUTH from getting out.

The world may hate us, but christianity has become our own enemy as well, Because we are "bed fellows" with The world and walk hand in hand with it. We are Lovers of The World.
 
I accept you cannot answer. And the post wherein you spoke of writing a sermon was false.

Thank you.


Seems you are a bit of a dart thrower.

With regards to what is a Christian, I notice you have no answers here either.

The Word of God includes a reference to Christian, Christianos G5546 in Acts, G5546 coming from G5547 Christos, a follower of Christ.

For a reply to your comment on the second part of your statement please quote thread and post number.
 
Not verbatim but the gospel is nothing but about Christians ( believers)...that's odd coming from you?!


A slip of the typing brother, replied when exceptionally tired, I push myself far to much at times, the eyes are weak and double visions increases the tiredness. :oops:
Going for an eye test in the next two hours.

Sorry for the mis type, one word 'not'

Post should have read...

We are ALL ministers of God's Grace, when born again from above.

What is a Christian?

We will find it in scripture.


Shalom

Acts 11:26 specifically G5546 Christianos from G5547 Christos.
 
Seems you are a bit of a dart thrower.

With regards to what is a Christian, I notice you have no answers here either.

The Word of God includes a reference to Christian, Christianos G5546 in Acts, G5546 coming from G5547 Christos, a follower of Christ.

For a reply to your comment on the second part of your statement please quote thread and post number.
No, not a dart thrower in the least. I just pay attention when someone says they write sermons, and then dodge a direct question that asks if they are a pastor.

Lastly, it is false to say I shave no answers. Though including, either, in your post indicating your culpability in that capacity is curious.

When I offer answers I'm ridiculed, insulted accused of not being Christian,etc...
A bit of pots calling the kettle black.
 
No, not a dart thrower in the least. I just pay attention when someone says they write sermons, and then dodge a direct question that asks if they are a pastor.

Lastly, it is false to say I shave no answers. Though including, either, in your post indicating your culpability in that capacity is curious.

When I offer answers I'm ridiculed, insulted accused of not being Christian,etc...
A bit of pots calling the kettle black.


I have written and shared sermons in the past, yes, but I am not a pastor and have never professed to be, as I said, we are all, when born again from above, ministers of God's grace.

I have never asked anyone on here if they are a pastor, I wouldn't do so, I am not that nosey, to me it doesn't matter if someone on here is a pastor or not, if someone said they were a pastor, I would accept what they say, the fruit will reveal itself. Now if a lady said she was a pastor then I probably would comment, but wouldn't ask the Initial question

I am not a pigeon hole person, we are all God's children, but only the born anew are children of God. From milk to meat we are all the same, the knowledge of The Truth in The Word is the only difference, as we get older we will no doubt make mistakes, age, illness, disability, pain etc and all play a part, but even able bodied pastors make mistakes with scripture. Now I mentioned fruit above, there are many quite happy to to use this term when a person makes a genuine error or even typing error, I tell you the truth the manuscripts are full of errors, in some cases just one letter wrong in the Greek can change the compete meaning of a sentence. We are all human, but are all the same in Christ Jesus.

I accept you as a sister in Christ, like any other brother or sister in Christ, but our first conversation didn't come over well, so I withdrew with caution, but then when the same person starts asking questions, which feel to me questionable, I am not going to respond as you want me to. Instead I answer in love as I did; we are all, when saved, ministers of God's grace.

You remain a sister in Christ, we are here to share The Word and encourage one another in Christ Jesus, not to find out what people do, what level of authority they have, we have no authority except that which God has given to each of us personally.

So let's go in peace, as disciples that we are intended to be, loving and sharing one with another, 'in The Word'
 
Greetings brother,

That is where my thoughts now lie.

Body + Spirit = became a living soul

Body (no spirit) = a dead soul

Body = Soul

With Spirit living, without Spirit dead.

At last breath the Spirit returns to God, what is left is the Body, a dead soul.

If this is correct, the body/soul goes to the dust of the earth, to the grave, that would mean Hades is the grave, so then I guess, if this is the case, the question remains, where is the gulf between the righteous and the lost?

Which brings us to, as some commentators say, the story is a parable.

Comments please.

Bless you.

Hi Brother Paul,

I agree. I do believe it is a parable. I believe it's about the judgement that was to come on the priesthood in 70 AD. There are two things to notice. Going back to chapter 15 we notice that, one, the Pharisees were murmuring against Him, and two, Jesus doesn't give us any details about the people in those parable. When we come to the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man we see that the Pharisees are still murmuring against Him, He speaks the parable to them, and He gives us a lot of details about the men in the parable. We're told the Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine linen, that he fared sumptuously, and that he had five brothers. We're told that Lazarus was poor, covered in sores, and looked for crumbs from the Rich Man's table. I think these details matter to the story. We didn't get these kinds of details in the other parables. If that's the case, what are we to make of these details? Who wore purple and fine linen, The priesthood. Who fared sumptuously everyday? The priesthood. Who had five brothers? Levi, the head of the Levites, the tribe of the priesthood. What about Lazarus? The name Lazarus means God help or God is my help. Who did God help?

4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.
5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.
9 Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up. (Isa. 50:4-9 KJV)


Who was poor? Jesus said He didn't even have a place to lay His head. Who was covered in sores? After the lashings Jesus was covered in sores. The parable says that the dogs licked Lazarus' sores. If Jesus is Lazarus what does this mean? Jesus came to the Jews, the Rich Man, and was rejected. Who accepted Him? The Gentiles. The Gentiles were referred to as dogs by the Jews. So, the dogs, (the Gentiles), accepted, (Lick His sores), Jesus, while His own rejected Him.

The Parable tells us that the Rich Man was an Israelite. He called Abraham Father. He's suffering in Hades in fire. There's only one other passage that speaks of fire in Hades. It's in the song of Moses where Moses predicts Israel's future judgment.

15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: (Deut. 32:15-26 KJV)


Paul quotes from this passage and attributes it to his day, so we know this is talking about the time of Christ.

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. (Rom. 10:19 KJV)

Jeshurun is a name Moses coined for Israel. In this passage God says a fire is kindled in His anger and it will burn to the lowest Hades. So, here we see fire in Hades as a description of judgment against Israel. In Jesus' parable we see the Rich Man in fire in Hades. The Rich Man is an Israelite who represents the priesthood of Israel. Notice too, that God said they would be devoured by burning heat. Jerusalem was destroyed by fire. Notice too, that God said He would turn His face from them. They haven't heard from God since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

The parable says that Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom is mentioned elsewhere in Scripture.

5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

We see hear that being in Abraham's bosom is to be in close relations with Abraham. So, what does it mean in the parable? If Lazarus is Jesus, He went to Abraham's embrace. In Genesis God promised Abraham that through him all the nations of the world would be blessed.

15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (Gen. 22:15-18 KJV)


God said all nations would be blessed through Abraham's seed. That was the promise to Abraham. The Israelites thought they were that seed. However, Paul tells us they weren't.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal. 3:16 KJV)

We see that the promises were not to the Israelites, but rather to one seed, Christ. So, in the parable we see Abraham embracing the long promised Seed, while the priesthood, the Rich Man, who thought they were the promised seed, suffering God's anger.

So, what is the great gulf between the two that no one can cross? I submit that it is the time of Israel's second exile or the time Paul calls, 'the times of the Gentiles'. In 70 AD. God destroyed the temple effectively ending the priesthood, which is why they, the Rich Man, are in Hades, the grave. and scattered Israel. The great gulf is that time between the destruction of the temple and the time when God regathers Israel at the end. During this time the Gentiles are coming into the Kingdom. No one can give relief to the priesthood during this time. The gulf cannot be crossed either way.

There's a lot more to say on this parable but this post is getting quite long.
 
I have written and shared sermons in the past, yes, but I am not a pastor and have never professed to be, as I said, we are all, when born again from above, ministers of God's grace.

I have never asked anyone on here if they are a pastor, I wouldn't do so, I am not that nosey, to me it doesn't matter if someone on here is a pastor or not, if someone said they were a pastor, I would accept what they say, the fruit will reveal itself. Now if a lady said she was a pastor then I probably would comment, but wouldn't ask the Initial question

I am not a pigeon hole person, we are all God's children, but only the born anew are children of God. From milk to meat we are all the same, the knowledge of The Truth in The Word is the only difference, as we get older we will no doubt make mistakes, age, illness, disability, pain etc and all play a part, but even able bodied pastors make mistakes with scripture. Now I mentioned fruit above, there are many quite happy to to use this term when a person makes a genuine error or even typing error, I tell you the truth the manuscripts are full of errors, in some cases just one letter wrong in the Greek can change the compete meaning of a sentence. We are all human, but are all the same in Christ Jesus.

I accept you as a sister in Christ, like any other brother or sister in Christ, but our first conversation didn't come over well, so I withdrew with caution, but then when the same person starts asking questions, which feel to me questionable, I am not going to respond as you want me to. Instead I answer in love as I did; we are all, when saved, ministers of God's grace.

You remain a sister in Christ, we are here to share The Word and encourage one another in Christ Jesus, not to find out what people do, what level of authority they have, we have no authority except that which God has given to each of us personally.

So let's go in peace, as disciples that we are intended to be, loving and sharing one with another, 'in The Word'
Now how easy was that, finally? "I am not a pastor." A very simple answer to my very direct question.

Truth isn't a pigeon hole.
 
Now how easy was that, finally? "I am not a pastor." A very simple answer to my very direct question.

Truth isn't a pigeon hole.


Who do you think you are lady, I do not answer to you madam.

Again off topic!

I dust the sand off my feet.

Shalom
 
Last edited:
Hi Brother Paul,

I agree. I do believe it is a parable. I believe it's about the judgement that was to come on the priesthood in 70 AD. There are two things to notice. Going back to chapter 15 we notice that, one, the Pharisees were murmuring against Him, and two, Jesus doesn't give us any details about the people in those parable. When we come to the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man we see that the Pharisees are still murmuring against Him, He speaks the parable to them, and He gives us a lot of details about the men in the parable. We're told the Rich Man was dressed in purple and fine linen, that he fared sumptuously, and that he had five brothers. We're told that Lazarus was poor, covered in sores, and looked for crumbs from the Rich Man's table. I think these details matter to the story. We didn't get these kinds of details in the other parables. If that's the case, what are we to make of these details? Who wore purple and fine linen, The priesthood. Who fared sumptuously everyday? The priesthood. Who had five brothers? Levi, the head of the Levites, the tribe of the priesthood. What about Lazarus? The name Lazarus means God help or God is my help. Who did God help?

4 The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.
5 The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back.
6 I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.
7 For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.
8 He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.
9 Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up. (Isa. 50:4-9 KJV)


Who was poor? Jesus said He didn't even have a place to lay His head. Who was covered in sores? After the lashings Jesus was covered in sores. The parable says that the dogs licked Lazarus' sores. If Jesus is Lazarus what does this mean? Jesus came to the Jews, the Rich Man, and was rejected. Who accepted Him? The Gentiles. The Gentiles were referred to as dogs by the Jews. So, the dogs, (the Gentiles), accepted, (Lick His sores), Jesus, while His own rejected Him.

The Parable tells us that the Rich Man was an Israelite. He called Abraham Father. He's suffering in Hades in fire. There's only one other passage that speaks of fire in Hades. It's in the song of Moses where Moses predicts Israel's future judgment.

15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.
20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
21 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
24 They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: (Deut. 32:15-26 KJV)


Paul quotes from this passage and attributes it to his day, so we know this is talking about the time of Christ.

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. (Rom. 10:19 KJV)

Jeshurun is a name Moses coined for Israel. In this passage God says a fire is kindled in His anger and it will burn to the lowest Hades. So, here we see fire in Hades as a description of judgment against Israel. In Jesus' parable we see the Rich Man in fire in Hades. The Rich Man is an Israelite who represents the priesthood of Israel. Notice too, that God said they would be devoured by burning heat. Jerusalem was destroyed by fire. Notice too, that God said He would turn His face from them. They haven't heard from God since the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

The parable says that Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom. Abraham's bosom is mentioned elsewhere in Scripture.

5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. (Gen. 16:5 KJV)

We see hear that being in Abraham's bosom is to be in close relations with Abraham. So, what does it mean in the parable? If Lazarus is Jesus, He went to Abraham's embrace. In Genesis God promised Abraham that through him all the nations of the world would be blessed.

15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (Gen. 22:15-18 KJV)


God said all nations would be blessed through Abraham's seed. That was the promise to Abraham. The Israelites thought they were that seed. However, Paul tells us they weren't.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal. 3:16 KJV)

We see that the promises were not to the Israelites, but rather to one seed, Christ. So, in the parable we see Abraham embracing the long promised Seed, while the priesthood, the Rich Man, who thought they were the promised seed, suffering God's anger.

So, what is the great gulf between the two that no one can cross? I submit that it is the time of Israel's second exile or the time Paul calls, 'the times of the Gentiles'. In 70 AD. God destroyed the temple effectively ending the priesthood, which is why they, the Rich Man, are in Hades, the grave. and scattered Israel. The great gulf is that time between the destruction of the temple and the time when God regathers Israel at the end. During this time the Gentiles are coming into the Kingdom. No one can give relief to the priesthood during this time. The gulf cannot be crossed either way.

There's a lot more to say on this parable but this post is getting quite long.


Well put brother and a blessing to read and share with you.

Bless you.
 
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