Anihilationism

[Butch5]

Greetings Brothers,

both 'age' and 'eternity' are words we use that more recently are from Latin, not Greek and not Hebrew

English is a difficult language to really get a 'pure' definition from.

The old Latin 'evolved' and between the 13th and 15th Centuries words and meanings of 'age' and 'eternity' surfaced.

Much early Translation wove through Latin, where Latin had to accommodate the meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew. Even back then, we see a problem in that, Latin is not either of the two major Scripture/Biblical languages.
Throw in some Aramaic, Chaldean and Roman, later, after the Latin, we have several 'European' {Germanic, French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc} inputs to the yet to happen, 'English' language.
add to this the development and deployment of Ecclesiastical Latin.....

and somehow we are meant to decipher it all and understand exactly what each word meant [not forgetting the gramatical sort of influence as per when and how and about what or who and Who it was speaking of.

What dialect do Christians have? Have you ever met someone who you immediately knew was a Follower of the Way? Something 'clicks' and you can immediately talk as if you were family and friends.
There is something very special about God's language and we are so blessed to have the Bible in so many tongues, both verbal and in print, and how wonderful it is to be able to speak with your tongue the praises of God!

Back to the discussion about 'eternal' and 'age', we have had presented the difficulty in using the word we translate as age and we have seen that eternal is not a 'blanket' rule for the use of aion.
May i suggest that we should also consider a bit more exactly what 'age' means and then perhaps we might proceed a bit more, together in the same direction, with the overall topic of this thread?
[we don't have to, by the way - it is only a suggestion, as we have gone over the last many posts a few times already and it would be good to get out of the rut! ]


But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel 12:13

And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jphn 6:39


Bless you ....><>

Hi Br. Bear,

From the way I see the word age used both today and in Scripture, it is a period of time whose length is determine by the context and not the definition.

 

[Butch5]

Greetings all again,

what is it like to be one with the One Who is?


Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
Deuteronomy 6:4

I and My Father are One.
John 10:30

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; that they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.


And the glory which thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are One: I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in One; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me. Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me: for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.
John 17:20-24

Bless you ....><>

Hi Br. Bear,

I would submit that this speaks of unity. That we are all of one mind so to speak.

 

[Butch5]

Isa 40:8; The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

1Pet 1:25; BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.

αἰών
aiōn; from a prim. root appar. mean. continued duration; a space of time, an age: — age (20), ages (6), ancient time (1), beginning of time (1), course (1), eternal (2), eternity (1), ever *(2), forever (27), forever and ever (20), forevermore (2), long ago (1), never *(1), old (1), time (1), world (7), worlds (1).

Matt 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Mark 13:31 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Luke 21:33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

Heaven and Earth will eventually pass away, there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.
But God's word, stands forever.

If God can control the courses of stars, and rivers, and knows the numbers of the hairs on your head....
If God can control air currents, where raindrops fall, and where grass grows....

He can control what happens to His Word. He can control the meaning of men's words in relationship to His Word.

Hi B-A-C,

There's no doubt that God can do that. The question is, did He? I would submit that He did not as we see that the translation of eternity flatly contradicts, Jesus', the apostles, and Paul's use of the word.

Here's the thing, it doesn't matter how much we quote translations and definitions that say eternity, they're all the opinions of the writers. If a million people are all taught something wrong, it's still wrong, even though a million people believe it. Jesus said that the words He spoke were not His, but the Father's. As I see it, if anyone knew/knows the meaning of aion in Jesus' day, it's God the Father. If His words through Jesus tell me that the word aion ends, then it ends. This tells me unequivocally, that it cannot mean unending.

 

[B-A-C]

From the way I see the word age used both today and in Scripture, it is a period of time whose length is determine by the context and not the definition.

I would submit that He did not as we see that the translation of eternity flatly contradicts, Jesus', the apostles, and Paul's use of the word.

It's interesting you agree context changes the meaning of a word. But not the word aionios. It seems you have a double standard here.

 

[Butch5]

It's interesting you agree context changes the meaning of a word. But not the word aionios. It seems you have a double standard here.

Hi B-A-C,

Not at all. The reason I say aion can't mean eternal is because it contradicts the very meaning of eternal. Jesus said it ends. Eternal means it doesn't end. That's a contraction, not an issue of context. There is no range within the definition of eternal. It simple means unending. There is no eternity that last for 100 and it's over. No eternity that lasts for a million years and it's over. The word has only one time frame, unending.

 

[Butch5]

It's interesting you agree context changes the meaning of a word. But not the word aionios. It seems you have a double standard here.

I would also say that context doesn't change the meaning. For instance, the Stone Age is considered roughly 2.5 million years. That doesn't mean that the definition of an age is now 2.5 million years. If it did, then the word age would only be able to be used for periods of time relating to 2.5 million years

 

[Br. Bear]

@Butch5

Greetings Brother,

Hi Br. Bear,

I would submit that this speaks of unity. That we are all of one mind so to speak.

I was really hinting at the agelessness of the Lord but usually my hints don't even get seen.
perhaps i am needing some more sharpening or something? I don't know. Jesus is my Lord and to know Him is enough for me, though... that He might know me, wretched and needy, looking to His Merciful lovingkindness that endures age without end.

On a 'different note', I was wanting to ask, if once a person is dead, that is it, how long they will remain dead for?

Regarding ending up dead, i would rather live on with my precious Lord than not. The thought of simply ceasing to be, ie, to END up dead, clashes with the hope that is within me.

It is that Hope that appears to be somehow not so important to share, although it should be obvious as a light shining on a tabletop, yea, almost missing from the 'Christian' circuit. Perhaps it has been replaced with a circus?

As far as Anihilation(ism) goes, i submit that most mis-interpret too much, and am reminded that the shepherds who are hirelings don't really care too much for knowing God, which entails being known by Him; the water that flows from the average brook is stagnant and is sold as pure, the show must go on, even if it is a perpetual wandering through a maze of guesswork; a jigsaw puzzle that has been made by hands; sentiment clouding the ability to come now and reason; traditions of men with glowing streetlights and highways; numbness and decay.

When we talk about the wrath of God.... we miss something.
When we talk even of eternal punishment which is in itself true, we miss much of the something
When we talk of Life, we talk from the standpoint of death.

Thank you for being a friend


Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5

Greetings Brother,




I was really hinting at the agelessness of the Lord but usually my hints don't even get seen.
perhaps i am needing some more sharpening or something? I don't know. Jesus is my Lord and to know Him is enough for me, though... that He might know me, wretched and needy, looking to His Merciful lovingkindness that endures age without end.

On a 'different note', I was wanting to ask, if once a person is dead, that is it, how long they will remain dead for?

Regarding ending up dead, i would rather live on with my precious Lord than not. The thought of simply ceasing to be, ie, to END up dead, clashes with the hope that is within me.

It is that Hope that appears to be somehow not so important to share, although it should be obvious as a light shining on a tabletop, yea, almost missing from the 'Christian' circuit. Perhaps it has been replaced with a circus?

As far as Anihilation(ism) goes, i submit that most mis-interpret too much, and am reminded that the shepherds who are hirelings don't really care too much for knowing God, which entails being known by Him; the water that flows from the average brook is stagnant and is sold as pure, the show must go on, even if it is a perpetual wandering through a maze of guesswork; a jigsaw puzzle that has been made by hands; sentiment clouding the ability to come now and reason; traditions of men with glowing streetlights and highways; numbness and decay.

When we talk about the wrath of God.... we miss something.
When we talk even of eternal punishment which is in itself true, we miss much of the something
When we talk of Life, we talk from the standpoint of death.

Thank you for being a friend


Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

Hi Br. Bear,

It may have been me that missed your hint. I've kind of lost track of my lines of thought in this thread. I would submit that when a man dies he is dead until the resurrection. At that point he is raised and if not found in the Book of Life, he will be cast into the Lake of Fire and that death will be eternal. After he dies the second time he will live no more.

You're welcome. And thank you too for being my friend.