Anihilationism

[Butch5]

See how your unbelief has overtaken you? A simple yes or no to my question would have ended this dialogue long ago.

No it wouldn't have. You'd have just gone on to the next question. This thread is on an important subject and I'm not going to derail it. I'm not getting into the Trinity doctrine on this thread. For one thing it's pointless. You won't address the subject of this thread. I'm not going to get this thread shut down by taking it to a Trinity discussion. That's the reason my replies to you have been measured. That you refuse to start a new thread to get the answer you seek speaks volumes.

 

[JerryfromMass]

No it wouldn't have. You'd have just gone on to the next question. This thread is on an important subject and I'm not going to derail it. I'm not getting into the Trinity doctrine on this thread. For one thing it's pointless. You won't address the subject of this thread. I'm not going to get this thread shut down by taking it to a Trinity discussion. That's the reason my replies to you have been measured. That you refuse to start a new thread to get the answer you seek speaks volumes.

I see. Have it your way. Lehitraot.
("Goodbye for now, see you again soon")

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 16:26; but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

@Butch5

Is God eternal? Or is He just God for some limited period of time?

 

[Butch5]

Rom 16:26; but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

@Butch5

Is God eternal? Or is He just God for some limited period of time?

This passage doesn't answer that question. Literally translated it reads,

and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith -- (Rom. 16:26 YLT)

It speaks of the age enduring God. So, if we want to see if God is eternal according to the English word eternal we need to look elsewhere. We can find passages such as Ephesians 1:12.

And as a mantle Thou wilt roll them up; As a garment they will also be changed. But Thou art the same, And Thy years will not come to an end." (Heb. 1:12 NAS)

Paul says that God's years will not end. That is eternal according to the English definition of the word eternal. But, just because God is eternal doesn't mean aion means eternal. As I've pointed out. Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul all speak of the end of the aion. There are multiple passages in the Scriptures that pluralize the word aion. That means ages. Eternity, by definition means unending. Thus something that ends cannot be eternal. Also, if eternity is unending there cannot be another one after it. Yet, many passages of Scripture speak of aions. Just look at how many times you read ages of ages in the Scriptures. There can't be eternities of eternities because by definition eternity doesn't end. Ages are periods of time, thus there can be ages of ages.

This show us that the translators have missed something here.

 

[JerryfromMass]

This passage doesn't answer that question. Literally translated it reads,

and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith -- (Rom. 16:26 YLT)

It speaks of the age enduring God. So, if we want to see if God is eternal according to the English word eternal we need to look elsewhere. We can find passages such as Ephesians 1:12.

And as a mantle Thou wilt roll them up; As a garment they will also be changed. But Thou art the same, And Thy years will not come to an end." (Heb. 1:12 NAS)

Paul says that God's years will not end. That is eternal according to the English definition of the word eternal. But, just because God is eternal doesn't mean aion means eternal. As I've pointed out. Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul all speak of the end of the aion. There are multiple passages in the Scriptures that pluralize the word aion. That means ages. Eternity, by definition means unending. Thus something that ends cannot be eternal. Also, if eternity is unending there cannot be another one after it. Yet, many passages of Scripture speak of aions. Just look at how many times you read ages of ages in the Scriptures. There can't be eternities of eternities because by definition eternity doesn't end. Ages are periods of time, thus there can be ages of ages.

This show us that the translators have missed something here.

Which of these translations is wrong?

Englishman's Concordance
αἰωνίου (aiōniou) — 15 Occurrences

Mark 3:29 Adj-GFS
GRK: ἔνοχός ἐστιν αἰωνίου ἁμαρτήματος
NAS: but is guilty of an eternal sin--
KJV: is in danger of eternal damnation:
INT: guilty is [of] eternal sin

Mark 16:20 Adj-GFS
GRK: κήρυγμα τῆς αἰωνίου σωτηρίας ἀμήν
INT: preaching of eternal salvation Amen

John 6:68 Adj-GFS
GRK: ῥήματα ζωῆς αἰωνίου ἔχεις
NAS: You have words of eternal life.
KJV: thou hast the words of eternal life.
INT: [the] words of life eternal you have

Acts 13:46 Adj-GFS
GRK: ἑαυτοὺς τῆς αἰωνίου ζωῆς ἰδοὺ
NAS: unworthy of eternal life,
KJV: unworthy of everlasting life,
INT: yourselves of eternal life Behold

Romans 16:26 Adj-GMS
GRK: ἐπιταγὴν τοῦ αἰωνίου θεοῦ εἰς
NAS: to the commandment of the eternal God,
KJV: to the commandment of the everlasting God,
INT: [the] commandment of the eternal God for

1 Timothy 6:12 Adj-GFS
GRK: ἐπιλαβοῦ τῆς αἰωνίου ζωῆς εἰς
NAS: take hold of the eternal life
KJV: lay hold on eternal life,
INT: Lay hold of eternal life to

2 Timothy 2:10 Adj-GFS
GRK: μετὰ δόξης αἰωνίου
NAS: Jesus [and] with [it] eternal glory.
KJV: Jesus with eternal glory.
INT: with glory eternal

Titus 1:2 Adj-GFS
GRK: ἐλπίδι ζωῆς αἰωνίου ἣν ἐπηγγείλατο
NAS: in the hope of eternal life, which
KJV: In hope of eternal life, which
INT: [the] hope of life eternal which promised

Titus 3:7 Adj-GFS
GRK: ἐλπίδα ζωῆς αἰωνίου
NAS: to [the] hope of eternal life.
KJV: according to the hope of eternal life.
INT: [the] hope of life eternal

Hebrews 5:9 Adj-GFS
GRK: αἴτιος σωτηρίας αἰωνίου
NAS: Him the source of eternal salvation,
KJV: the author of eternal salvation
INT: author of salvation eternal

Hebrews 6:2 Adj-GNS
GRK: καὶ κρίματος αἰωνίου
NAS: of the dead and eternal judgment.
KJV: of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
INT: and of judgment eternal

Hebrews 9:14 Adj-GNS
GRK: διὰ πνεύματος αἰωνίου ἑαυτὸν προσήνεγκεν
NAS: who through the eternal Spirit offered
KJV: who through the eternal Spirit offered
INT: through [the] Spirit eternal himself offered

Hebrews 9:15 Adj-GFS
GRK: κεκλημένοι τῆς αἰωνίου κληρονομίας
NAS: the promise of the eternal inheritance.
KJV: the promise of eternal inheritance.
INT: having been called of the eternal inheritance

Hebrews 13:20 Adj-GFS
GRK: αἵματι διαθήκης αἰωνίου τὸν κύριον
NAS: the blood of the eternal covenant,
KJV: the blood of the everlasting covenant,
INT: [the] blood of [the] covenant eternal the Lord

Jude 1:7 Adj-GNS
GRK: δεῖγμα πυρὸς αἰωνίου δίκην ὑπέχουσαι
NAS: the punishment of eternal fire.
KJV: the vengeance of eternal fire.
INT: an example of fire eternal [the] penalty undergoing

 

[B-A-C]

This passage doesn't answer that question. Literally translated it reads,

and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith -- (Rom. 16:26 YLT)

Acording to 700 Greek scholars at the university of Athens (in Greece). The word aionios mean forever, eternal. If you do a Google translate from Greek, aionios comes back translated as forever.
It's a word still in common use today in Greek (a language spoken by several hundred million people. The word hasn't changed. The meaning hasn't changed.
If you look in Strongs cross reference dictionary - it means forever. If you look in the NASEC it means forever. If you look in Baker's or Easton's .. it means forever.

In fact it mean eternal or forever in everyone of these Greek dictionaries.

List of Bible dictionaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JerryfromMass]

This passage doesn't answer that question. Literally translated it reads,

and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith -- (Rom. 16:26 YLT)

It speaks of the age enduring God. So, if we want to see if God is eternal according to the English word eternal we need to look elsewhere. We can find passages such as Ephesians 1:12.

And as a mantle Thou wilt roll them up; As a garment they will also be changed. But Thou art the same, And Thy years will not come to an end." (Heb. 1:12 NAS)

Paul says that God's years will not end. That is eternal according to the English definition of the word eternal. But, just because God is eternal doesn't mean aion means eternal. As I've pointed out. Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul all speak of the end of the aion. There are multiple passages in the Scriptures that pluralize the word aion. That means ages. Eternity, by definition means unending. Thus something that ends cannot be eternal. Also, if eternity is unending there cannot be another one after it. Yet, many passages of Scripture speak of aions. Just look at how many times you read ages of ages in the Scriptures. There can't be eternities of eternities because by definition eternity doesn't end. Ages are periods of time, thus there can be ages of ages.

This show us that the translators have missed something here.

What did the translators miss in these translations?

Englishman's Concordance
αἰώνιον (aiōnion) — 45 Occurrences
Matthew 18:8 Adj-ANS
GRK: πῦρ τὸ αἰώνιον
NAS: and be cast into the eternal fire.
KJV: to be cast into everlasting fire.
INT: fire eternal

Matthew 19:16 Adj-AFS
GRK: σχῶ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: that I may obtain eternal life?
KJV: that I may have eternal life?
INT: I might have life eternal

Matthew 19:29 Adj-AFS
GRK: καὶ ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσει
NAS: and will inherit eternal life.
KJV: and shall inherit everlasting life.
INT: and life eternal will inherit

Matthew 25:41 Adj-ANS
GRK: πῦρ τὸ αἰώνιον τὸ ἡτοιμασμένον
NAS: from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire
KJV: into everlasting fire,
INT: fire eternal which has been prepared

Matthew 25:46 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον οἱ δὲ
NAS: will go away into eternal punishment,
KJV: into everlasting punishment:
INT: into punishment eternal moreover

Matthew 25:46 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: but the righteous into eternal life.
KJV: into life eternal.
INT: into life eternal

Mark 10:17 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἵνα ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω
NAS: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
KJV: that I may inherit eternal life?
INT: that life eternal I might inherit

Mark 10:30 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἐρχομένῳ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and in the age to come, eternal life.
KJV: the world to come eternal life.
INT: is coming life eternal

Luke 10:25 Adj-AFS
GRK: ποιήσας ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω
NAS: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
KJV: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
INT: having done life eternal will I inherit

Luke 18:18 Adj-AFS
GRK: ποιήσας ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω
NAS: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
KJV: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
INT: having done life eternal will I inherit

Luke 18:30 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἐρχομένῳ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and in the age to come, eternal life.
KJV: to come life everlasting.
INT: is coming life eternal

John 3:15 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: will in Him have eternal life.
KJV: but have eternal life.
INT: might have life eternal

John 3:16 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: but have eternal life.
KJV: but have everlasting life.
INT: might have life eternal

John 3:36 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον ὁ δὲ
NAS: has eternal life;
KJV: the Son hath everlasting life: and
INT: has life eternal he that moreover

John 4:14 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: springing up to eternal life.
KJV: springing up into everlasting life.
INT: into life eternal

John 4:36 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἵνα ὁ
NAS: for life eternal; so
KJV: unto life eternal: that both
INT: unto life eternal that he that

John 5:24 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ εἰς
NAS: Me, has eternal life,
KJV: me, hath everlasting life, and
INT: has life eternal and into

John 5:39 Adj-AFS
GRK: αὐταῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἔχειν καὶ
NAS: that in them you have eternal life;
KJV: think ye have eternal life: and
INT: them life eternal to have and

John 6:27 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἣν ὁ
NAS: which endures to eternal life,
KJV: endureth unto everlasting life, which
INT: unto life eternal which the

John 6:40 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ ἀναστήσω
NAS: in Him will have eternal life,
KJV: him, may have everlasting life: and
INT: should have life eternal and will raise up

John 6:47 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: has eternal life.
KJV: me hath everlasting life.
INT: has life eternal

John 6:54 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον κἀγὼ ἀναστήσω
NAS: has eternal life,
KJV: blood, hath eternal life; and
INT: has life eternal and I I will raise up

John 10:28 Adj-AFS
GRK: αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὐ
NAS: and I give eternal life
KJV: give unto them eternal life; and
INT: them life eternal and never

John 12:25 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον φυλάξει αὐτήν
NAS: will keep it to life eternal.
KJV: unto life eternal.
INT: to life eternal will keep it

John 17:2 Adj-AFS
GRK: αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: Him, He may give eternal life.
KJV: that he should give eternal life to
INT: to them life eternal

Acts 13:48 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: appointed to eternal life
KJV: ordained to eternal life believed.
INT: to life eternal

Romans 2:7 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζητοῦσιν ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and immortality, eternal life;
KJV: and immortality, eternal life:
INT: are seeking life eternal

Romans 5:21 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον διὰ Ἰησοῦ
NAS: righteousness to eternal life
KJV: righteousness unto eternal life by
INT: to life eternal through Jesus

Romans 6:22 Adj-AFS
GRK: τέλος ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and the outcome, eternal life.
KJV: and the end everlasting life.
INT: [the] end [is] life eternal

2 Corinthians 4:17 Adj-ANS
GRK: εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης
NAS: is producing for us an eternal weight
KJV: more exceeding [and] eternal weight
INT: to excessiveness an eternal weight of glory

2 Corinthians 5:1 Adj-AFS
GRK: οἰκίαν ἀχειροποίητον αἰώνιον ἐν τοῖς
NAS: not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
KJV: not made with hands, eternal in
INT: a house not made with hands eternal in the

Galatians 6:8 Adj-AFS
GRK: θερίσει ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: reap eternal life.
KJV: reap life everlasting.
INT: will reap life eternal

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Adj-AMS
GRK: τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου
NAS: the penalty of eternal destruction,
KJV: shall be punished with everlasting destruction
INT: will suffer destruction eternal from [the] presence

1 Timothy 1:16 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: believe in Him for eternal life.
KJV: to life everlasting.
INT: to life eternal

1 Timothy 6:16 Adj-NNS
GRK: καὶ κράτος αἰώνιον ἀμήν
NAS: To Him [be] honor and eternal dominion!
KJV: and power everlasting. Amen.
INT: and might eternal Amen

Philemon 1:15 Adj-AMS
GRK: ὥραν ἵνα αἰώνιον αὐτὸν ἀπέχῃς
NAS: that you would have him back forever,
KJV: thou shouldest receive him for ever;
INT: a time that eternally him you might possess

1 Peter 5:10 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν αἰώνιον αὐτοῦ δόξαν
NAS: who called you to His eternal glory
KJV: unto his eternal glory by
INT: to the eternal of him glory

2 Peter 1:11 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν αἰώνιον βασιλείαν τοῦ
NAS: the entrance into the eternal kingdom
KJV: into the everlasting kingdom
INT: into the eternal kingdom of the

1 John 1:2 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον ἥτις ἦν
NAS: and proclaim to you the eternal life,
KJV: shew unto you that eternal life, which
INT: life eternal which was

1 John 2:25 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: He Himself made to us: eternal life.
KJV: hath promised us, [even] eternal life.
INT: life eternal

1 John 3:15 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἐν αὐτῷ
NAS: murderer has eternal life abiding
KJV: murderer hath eternal life abiding
INT: has life eternal in him

1 John 5:11 Adj-AFS
GRK: ὅτι ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἔδωκεν ὁ
NAS: has given us eternal life,
KJV: hath given to us eternal life, and
INT: that life eternal gave

1 John 5:13 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζωὴν ἔχετε αἰώνιον τοῖς πιστεύουσιν
NAS: that you have eternal life.
KJV: that ye have eternal life, and
INT: life you have eternal who believe

Jude 1:21 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: Jesus Christ to eternal life.
KJV: Christ unto eternal life.
INT: unto life eternal

Revelation 14:6 Adj-ANS
GRK: ἔχοντα εὐαγγέλιον αἰώνιον εὐαγγελίσαι ἐπὶ
NAS: having an eternal gospel
KJV: having the everlasting gospel
INT: having [the] glad tidings everlasting to preach on

 

[Butch5]

Acording to 700 Greek scholars at the university of Athens (in Greece). The word aionios mean forever, eternal. If you do a Google translate from Greek, aionios comes back translated as forever.
It's a word still in common use today in Greek (a language spoken by several hundred million people. The word hasn't changed. The meaning hasn't changed.
If you look in Strongs cross reference dictionary - it means forever. If you look in the NASEC it means forever. If you look in Baker's or Easton's .. it means forever.

In fact it mean eternal or forever in everyone of these Greek dictionaries.

List of Bible dictionaries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hi B-A-C,

Actually, words do change. Using modern Greek to define a Biblical word isn't going to work. However, what does it matter how many today say aion means forever? Were any of them around in Jesus day? No. So, none of them have first hand knowledge. Scholars go to seminaries and are taught what the Bible says. Let me ask you a question. How can so many scientists believe in evolution? Scientists will use the Bible for archeological projects to locate ancient cities. They find them just where the Bible says they are. So, If the Bible is accurate about where these cities are located, why don't scientist believe the rest of the Bible? Why don't they believe in creation rather than evolution? How can so many do this? This argument is actually a fallacy. It's called an appeal to the majority. The idea is that if so many people believe something it must be right. But that's fallacious. Let me give you another example, this one within Christianity. I don't know which side of the issue you're on and it doesn't matter, but, there are millions of Christians who believe you can't lose your salvation, and there are millions who believe you can. How can so many be wrong. One side or the other has to be wrong. How can that be? Among these millions are highly educated people, scholars, and theologians, all on both sides of the issue. This shows us without doubt that large groups of Christians, including scholars, can be wrong. This is why it is so imperative that we use our own, brains, logic, and common sense. Sure we can see what others have to say, but in the end it has to make sense.

What would be awesome is if we could ask those 700 scholars, hey, Jesus, the apostles, and Paul all spoke of the end of the aion, how can it mean eternal if it ends? It would interesting to see how they attempt to answer, if they attempt at all. It would be awesome to ask them, hey, if eternity never ends how can there be more eternities after it? They couldn't answer because there is no answer. All they could really do is side step the question. It would like they do in their translations. When aion is speaks of something like life, they translate it eternal, but, when Jesus says it's going to end, they change their translation from eternal to world. They speak of the end of the world, because they know eternity doesn't end and that translating it eternity would be a contradiction. Personally I think it's a disservice to the reader. What happens is that by doing this they essentially cement their beliefs into the translation. But even this creates difficulties within their translation. For instance, Jesus speaks of the end of the aion and they translate it world indicating the world will end. However, they also translated it world where it will not end.

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Eph. 3:21 KJV)

So, in one place their translation has the world ending and in another says the world is without end. This is the problem they run into by not translating the word aion as age. You see, the word age would fit perfectly in both places. Jesus could speak of the end of this age and Paul could speak of praising God in an age without end. The word age makes perfect sense in both places, yet when they translate it world it creates problems. But even that creates problems because the Greek text doesn't say world without end. It says, 'of the age of the ages'. The translator assumes that means without end.

Here's the literal translation of the passage.

to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen. (Eph. 3:21 YLT)


In the end it comes down to logic and common sense. Anyone can see that something that ends cannot be eternal. If we're going to be honest with ourselves we have to acknowledge a problem in translating aion as eternal. It just defies common sense and logic

 

[JerryfromMass]

Hi B-A-C,

Actually, words do change. Using modern Greek to define a Biblical word isn't going to work. However, what does it matter how many today say aion means forever? Were any of them around in Jesus day? No. So, none of them have first hand knowledge. Scholars go to seminaries and are taught what the Bible says. Let me ask you a question. How can so many scientists believe in evolution? Scientists will use the Bible for archeological projects to locate ancient cities. They find them just where the Bible says they are. So, If the Bible is accurate about where these cities are located, why don't scientist believe the rest of the Bible? Why don't they believe in creation rather than evolution? How can so many do this? This argument is actually a fallacy. It's called an appeal to the majority. The idea is that if so many people believe something it must be right. But that's fallacious. Let me give you another example, this one within Christianity. I don't know which side of the issue you're on and it doesn't matter, but, there are millions of Christians who believe you can't lose your salvation, and there are millions who believe you can. How can so many be wrong. One side or the other has to be wrong. How can that be? Among these millions are highly educated people, scholars, and theologians, all on both sides of the issue. This shows us without doubt that large groups of Christians, including scholars, can be wrong. This is why it is so imperative that we use our own, brains, logic, and common sense. Sure we can see what others have to say, but in the end it has to make sense.

What would be awesome is if we could ask those 700 scholars, hey, Jesus, the apostles, and Paul all spoke of the end of the aion, how can it mean eternal if it ends? It would interesting to see how they attempt to answer, if they attempt at all. It would be awesome to ask them, hey, if eternity never ends how can there be more eternities after it? They couldn't answer because there is no answer. All they could really do is side step the question. It would like they do in their translations. When aion is speaks of something like life, they translate it eternal, but, when Jesus says it's going to end, they change their translation from eternal to world. They speak of the end of the world, because they know eternity doesn't end and that translating it eternity would be a contradiction. Personally I think it's a disservice to the reader. What happens is that by doing this they essentially cement their beliefs into the translation. But even this creates difficulties within their translation. For instance, Jesus speaks of the end of the aion and they translate it world indicating the world will end. However, they also translated it world where it will not end.

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. (Eph. 3:21 KJV)

So, in one place their translation has the world ending and in another says the world is without end. This is the problem they run into by not translating the word aion as age. You see, the word age would fit perfectly in both places. Jesus could speak of the end of this age and Paul could speak of praising God in an age without end. The word age makes perfect sense in both places, yet when they translate it world it creates problems. But even that creates problems because the Greek text doesn't say world without end. It says, 'of the age of the ages'. The translator assumes that means without end.

Here's the literal translation of the passage.

to Him is the glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus, to all the generations of the age of the ages. Amen. (Eph. 3:21 YLT)


In the end it comes down to logic and common sense. Anyone can see that something that ends cannot be eternal. If we're going to be honest with ourselves we have to acknowledge a problem in translating aion as eternal. It just defies common sense and logic

Not all scientists are atheists, many are born again believers, including archaeologists, you should know better.

The OSAS believers vs. the one's who believe you can lose your salvation all agree on the imperative: you can be saved. Just as all those with different theological postions on rapture timing all agree with the imperative: there will be a rapture.

From Hellenistic koine to Attic to Byzantine to modern Greek, from the 1st century to today, much of the Greek language has gone through little etymological change, quite unlike those of other ethnicities. Therefore, scholars agree that where the manuscripts use the word aiōnion, it meant eternal, never ending, everlasting then, and it means eternal, never ending, everlasting today.

 

[Br. Bear]

@PloughBoy

Greetings,

(Isaiah 53)
"1Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 2He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no stately form or majesty to attract us, no beauty that we should desire Him. 3He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. Like one from whom men hide their faces, He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.…"

They hated Jesus, and did not care for His Words, They were faking acting like they cared, but they didn't and He called them out. In the Gospel's declares this, by the words of Jesus.

John 6:26,30,40,64
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled…
John 12:37
But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
John 15:24
If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

I know this Truth is hard for many to believe, The People hated Jesus and the message He gave them from the Father!

They enjoyed the food, they enjoyed the healings, and they really hated Him when the Romans "Crucified him", This was supposed to Be Our Messiah and run the Roman armies out and be our "Reigning KING" And we would not be without Food anymore, For He is our healer our KING, King of The Jews! But They capture Him, He did not fight for us or Him self. He was a Imposter a deceiver of the People"! And they hated Him More, His Disciples ran away and left Him alone! They deserted HIM! He was not the man whom we thought Him to be! All hope was gone, He was a good man but not The Coming Messiah, and It tore "Judas" apart, he went away, I have betrayed a innocent man, who I thought was The Christ the "SON of GOD', I have betrayed a good man, and He went out and Hung himself and His bowels burst asunder.

Not only must one, read the "Holy Scriptures" one must enter The Spirit of The WORD, The LIVING WORD of GOD" For The "Spirit gives Life" It becomes Living and gives you LIFE, into Its Truth.

If anyone think The Gospels recorded in the New Testament, especially The "Synoptic Gospels" teaches that The people love Him and believe His Words, they have not Read or Study it properly. It teaches the people hated Him and his Family thought He was Crazy and the people Hated Him and GOD the Father.

Many think they believe the Words of The Bible, But actually they don't. and they don't even realize it. For the time, that they desirer The Meat. It Chokes them. or it is too "strong" for them. For they have not yet died unto themselves. "Anthropomorphic words" The Seed, must die unto it self , before it produce a abundance of fruit and that death is painful, that is why there are many, who are "Enemies of The cross" For they come down, off that Tree. the Pain is unbearable and the wound runs deep.

(Philippians 3)BSB
Join one another in following my example, brothers, and carefully observe those who walk according to the pattern we set for you. For as I have often told you before, and now say again even with tears: Many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things."

Acts 20:31
"Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears."
(Hebrews 5)ASV.
"Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered; and having been made perfect, he became unto all them that obey him the author of eternal salvation; named of God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek."

He showed us "The Way".

If a person have not offered up prayers and supplication with strong crying and tears, for another's or their own Salvation, they might not be a "True Child of the Living GOD".

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1John 4:10


Bless you Brother ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brothers,

both 'age' and 'eternity' are words we use that more recently are from Latin, not Greek and not Hebrew

English is a difficult language to really get a 'pure' definition from.

The old Latin 'evolved' and between the 13th and 15th Centuries words and meanings of 'age' and 'eternity' surfaced.

Much early Translation wove through Latin, where Latin had to accommodate the meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew. Even back then, we see a problem in that, Latin is not either of the two major Scripture/Biblical languages.
Throw in some Aramaic, Chaldean and Roman, later, after the Latin, we have several 'European' {Germanic, French, Spanish, Portuguese, etc} inputs to the yet to happen, 'English' language.
add to this the development and deployment of Ecclesiastical Latin.....

and somehow we are meant to decipher it all and understand exactly what each word meant [not forgetting the gramatical sort of influence as per when and how and about what or who and Who it was speaking of.

What dialect do Christians have? Have you ever met someone who you immediately knew was a Follower of the Way? Something 'clicks' and you can immediately talk as if you were family and friends.
There is something very special about God's language and we are so blessed to have the Bible in so many tongues, both verbal and in print, and how wonderful it is to be able to speak with your tongue the praises of God!

Back to the discussion about 'eternal' and 'age', we have had presented the difficulty in using the word we translate as age and we have seen that eternal is not a 'blanket' rule for the use of aion.
May i suggest that we should also consider a bit more exactly what 'age' means and then perhaps we might proceed a bit more, together in the same direction, with the overall topic of this thread?
[we don't have to, by the way - it is only a suggestion, as we have gone over the last many posts a few times already and it would be good to get out of the rut! ]


But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.
Daniel 12:13

And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Jphn 6:39


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

What did the translators miss in these translations?

Englishman's Concordance
αἰώνιον (aiōnion) — 45 Occurrences
Matthew 18:8 Adj-ANS
GRK: πῦρ τὸ αἰώνιον
NAS: and be cast into the eternal fire.
KJV: to be cast into everlasting fire.
INT: fire eternal

Matthew 19:16 Adj-AFS
GRK: σχῶ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: that I may obtain eternal life?
KJV: that I may have eternal life?
INT: I might have life eternal

Matthew 19:29 Adj-AFS
GRK: καὶ ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσει
NAS: and will inherit eternal life.
KJV: and shall inherit everlasting life.
INT: and life eternal will inherit

Matthew 25:41 Adj-ANS
GRK: πῦρ τὸ αἰώνιον τὸ ἡτοιμασμένον
NAS: from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire
KJV: into everlasting fire,
INT: fire eternal which has been prepared

Matthew 25:46 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον οἱ δὲ
NAS: will go away into eternal punishment,
KJV: into everlasting punishment:
INT: into punishment eternal moreover

Matthew 25:46 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: but the righteous into eternal life.
KJV: into life eternal.
INT: into life eternal

Mark 10:17 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἵνα ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω
NAS: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
KJV: that I may inherit eternal life?
INT: that life eternal I might inherit

Mark 10:30 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἐρχομένῳ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and in the age to come, eternal life.
KJV: the world to come eternal life.
INT: is coming life eternal

Luke 10:25 Adj-AFS
GRK: ποιήσας ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω
NAS: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
KJV: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
INT: having done life eternal will I inherit

Luke 18:18 Adj-AFS
GRK: ποιήσας ζωὴν αἰώνιον κληρονομήσω
NAS: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
KJV: shall I do to inherit eternal life?
INT: having done life eternal will I inherit

Luke 18:30 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἐρχομένῳ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and in the age to come, eternal life.
KJV: to come life everlasting.
INT: is coming life eternal

John 3:15 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: will in Him have eternal life.
KJV: but have eternal life.
INT: might have life eternal

John 3:16 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: but have eternal life.
KJV: but have everlasting life.
INT: might have life eternal

John 3:36 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον ὁ δὲ
NAS: has eternal life;
KJV: the Son hath everlasting life: and
INT: has life eternal he that moreover

John 4:14 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: springing up to eternal life.
KJV: springing up into everlasting life.
INT: into life eternal

John 4:36 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἵνα ὁ
NAS: for life eternal; so
KJV: unto life eternal: that both
INT: unto life eternal that he that

John 5:24 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ εἰς
NAS: Me, has eternal life,
KJV: me, hath everlasting life, and
INT: has life eternal and into

John 5:39 Adj-AFS
GRK: αὐταῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἔχειν καὶ
NAS: that in them you have eternal life;
KJV: think ye have eternal life: and
INT: them life eternal to have and

John 6:27 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἣν ὁ
NAS: which endures to eternal life,
KJV: endureth unto everlasting life, which
INT: unto life eternal which the

John 6:40 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ ἀναστήσω
NAS: in Him will have eternal life,
KJV: him, may have everlasting life: and
INT: should have life eternal and will raise up

John 6:47 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: has eternal life.
KJV: me hath everlasting life.
INT: has life eternal

John 6:54 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον κἀγὼ ἀναστήσω
NAS: has eternal life,
KJV: blood, hath eternal life; and
INT: has life eternal and I I will raise up

John 10:28 Adj-AFS
GRK: αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὐ
NAS: and I give eternal life
KJV: give unto them eternal life; and
INT: them life eternal and never

John 12:25 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον φυλάξει αὐτήν
NAS: will keep it to life eternal.
KJV: unto life eternal.
INT: to life eternal will keep it

John 17:2 Adj-AFS
GRK: αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: Him, He may give eternal life.
KJV: that he should give eternal life to
INT: to them life eternal

Acts 13:48 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: appointed to eternal life
KJV: ordained to eternal life believed.
INT: to life eternal

Romans 2:7 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζητοῦσιν ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and immortality, eternal life;
KJV: and immortality, eternal life:
INT: are seeking life eternal

Romans 5:21 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον διὰ Ἰησοῦ
NAS: righteousness to eternal life
KJV: righteousness unto eternal life by
INT: to life eternal through Jesus

Romans 6:22 Adj-AFS
GRK: τέλος ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: and the outcome, eternal life.
KJV: and the end everlasting life.
INT: [the] end [is] life eternal

2 Corinthians 4:17 Adj-ANS
GRK: εἰς ὑπερβολὴν αἰώνιον βάρος δόξης
NAS: is producing for us an eternal weight
KJV: more exceeding [and] eternal weight
INT: to excessiveness an eternal weight of glory

2 Corinthians 5:1 Adj-AFS
GRK: οἰκίαν ἀχειροποίητον αἰώνιον ἐν τοῖς
NAS: not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
KJV: not made with hands, eternal in
INT: a house not made with hands eternal in the

Galatians 6:8 Adj-AFS
GRK: θερίσει ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: reap eternal life.
KJV: reap life everlasting.
INT: will reap life eternal

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Adj-AMS
GRK: τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου
NAS: the penalty of eternal destruction,
KJV: shall be punished with everlasting destruction
INT: will suffer destruction eternal from [the] presence

1 Timothy 1:16 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: believe in Him for eternal life.
KJV: to life everlasting.
INT: to life eternal

1 Timothy 6:16 Adj-NNS
GRK: καὶ κράτος αἰώνιον ἀμήν
NAS: To Him [be] honor and eternal dominion!
KJV: and power everlasting. Amen.
INT: and might eternal Amen

Philemon 1:15 Adj-AMS
GRK: ὥραν ἵνα αἰώνιον αὐτὸν ἀπέχῃς
NAS: that you would have him back forever,
KJV: thou shouldest receive him for ever;
INT: a time that eternally him you might possess

1 Peter 5:10 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν αἰώνιον αὐτοῦ δόξαν
NAS: who called you to His eternal glory
KJV: unto his eternal glory by
INT: to the eternal of him glory

2 Peter 1:11 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς τὴν αἰώνιον βασιλείαν τοῦ
NAS: the entrance into the eternal kingdom
KJV: into the everlasting kingdom
INT: into the eternal kingdom of the

1 John 1:2 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον ἥτις ἦν
NAS: and proclaim to you the eternal life,
KJV: shew unto you that eternal life, which
INT: life eternal which was

1 John 2:25 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζωὴν τὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: He Himself made to us: eternal life.
KJV: hath promised us, [even] eternal life.
INT: life eternal

1 John 3:15 Adj-AFS
GRK: ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἐν αὐτῷ
NAS: murderer has eternal life abiding
KJV: murderer hath eternal life abiding
INT: has life eternal in him

1 John 5:11 Adj-AFS
GRK: ὅτι ζωὴν αἰώνιον ἔδωκεν ὁ
NAS: has given us eternal life,
KJV: hath given to us eternal life, and
INT: that life eternal gave

1 John 5:13 Adj-AFS
GRK: ζωὴν ἔχετε αἰώνιον τοῖς πιστεύουσιν
NAS: that you have eternal life.
KJV: that ye have eternal life, and
INT: life you have eternal who believe

Jude 1:21 Adj-AFS
GRK: εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
NAS: Jesus Christ to eternal life.
KJV: Christ unto eternal life.
INT: unto life eternal

Revelation 14:6 Adj-ANS
GRK: ἔχοντα εὐαγγέλιον αἰώνιον εὐαγγελίσαι ἐπὶ
NAS: having an eternal gospel
KJV: having the everlasting gospel
INT: having [the] glad tidings everlasting to preach on

I think it would be fair to also include the following,

166. aiónios

Strong's Concordance:
aiónios: agelong, eternal
Original Word: αἰώνιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aiónios
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-o'-nee-os)
Definition: agelong, eternal
Usage: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.

HELPS Word-studies:
Cognate: 166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") – properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age); (figuratively) the unique quality (reality) of God's life at work in the believer, i.e. as the Lord manifests His self-existent life (as it is in His sinless abode of heaven).

"Eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life operates simultaneously outside of time, inside of time, and beyond time – i.e. what gives time its everlasting meaning for the believer through faith, yet is also time-independent. See 165 (aiōn).

[166 (aiṓnios) does not focus on the future per se, but rather on the quality of the age (165 /aiṓn) it relates to.

Thus believers live in "eternal (166 /aiṓnios) life" right now, experiencing this quality of God's life now as a present possession. (Note the Gk present tense of having eternal life in Jn 3:36, 5:24, 6:47; cf. Ro 6:23.)]

from: Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Hi Br Bear,

I agree with you that there will be those who say why, and live for this life. This life may be all they're after. Maybe the thought of living forever doesn't appeal to them as much as the fun they can have now. They, like everyone else, have a choice. God told the Israelites, 'I have set before you life and death, choose life'. Some of them chose life and some didn't. I don't see why death isn't punishment enough.

I do think this is a subject of importance and worth turning over every stone. I've heard people reject God based on this idea of ETC. People said they couldn't serve a God that would torture people.

Sure we can investigate how God takes no pleasure in the wicked. Is there a particular direction you wanted to go?

It could be that the focus is off. There are a lot of people who witness telling people to avoid ETC. I don't know if really works. We should be telling them there is a coming Kingdom in which they can partake. I think one of the big problems though is that most Christians believe they are going to Heaven. Ask a Christian what it will be like in Heaven, what will we do? People can't answer that question. How do we tell them of the hope in Christ when we don't know what it is? Telling people, just believe and you'll spend eternity in this awesome place that I know nothing about isn't very convincing. We're not told what Heaven is like. I believe the reason is that we aren't going there, so why tell us what it's like? Instead of telling them they're going to Heaven, we should be telling them they're going to experience the Garden of Eden, a restored Earth, and an unending life.

I don't know why Christians get so Christian. Can you elaborate on this a little.

I'm not sure what you're asking in that last question.

Hi Br Bear,

I agree with you that there will be those who say why, and live for this life. This life may be all they're after. Maybe the thought of living forever doesn't appeal to them as much as the fun they can have now. They, like everyone else, have a choice. God told the Israelites, 'I have set before you life and death, choose life'. Some of them chose life and some didn't. I don't see why death isn't punishment enough.

I do think this is a subject of importance and worth turning over every stone. I've heard people reject God based on this idea of ETC. People said they couldn't serve a God that would torture people.

Sure we can investigate how God takes no pleasure in the wicked. Is there a particular direction you wanted to go?

It could be that the focus is off. There are a lot of people who witness telling people to avoid ETC. I don't know if really works. We should be telling them there is a coming Kingdom in which they can partake. I think one of the big problems though is that most Christians believe they are going to Heaven. Ask a Christian what it will be like in Heaven, what will we do? People can't answer that question. How do we tell them of the hope in Christ when we don't know what it is? Telling people, just believe and you'll spend eternity in this awesome place that I know nothing about isn't very convincing. We're not told what Heaven is like. I believe the reason is that we aren't going there, so why tell us what it's like? Instead of telling them they're going to Heaven, we should be telling them they're going to experience the Garden of Eden, a restored Earth, and an unending life.

I don't know why Christians get so Christian. Can you elaborate on this a little.

I'm not sure what you're asking in that last question.

I shall get back to you on this, Brother


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all again,

what is it like to be one with the One Who is?


Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
Deuteronomy 6:4

I and My Father are One.
John 10:30

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; that they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.


And the glory which thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are One: I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in One; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me. Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me: for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.
John 17:20-24

Bless you ....><>

 

[JerryfromMass]

Greetings all again,

what is it like to be one with the One Who is?


Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One.
Deuteronomy 6:4

I and My Father are One.
John 10:30

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on Me through their word; that they all may be one; as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that Thou hast sent Me.


And the glory which thou gavest Me I have given them; that they may be one, even as We are One: I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be made perfect in One; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me. Father, I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me: for Thou lovedst Me before the foundation of the world.
John 17:20-24

Bless you ....><>

Neither am I ever alone nor am I ever lonely, for HE is with me. Thank you Lord for loving me. Amen.

 

[B-A-C]

Isa 40:8; The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

1Pet 1:25; BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.

αἰών
aiōn; from a prim. root appar. mean. continued duration; a space of time, an age: — age (20), ages (6), ancient time (1), beginning of time (1), course (1), eternal (2), eternity (1), ever *(2), forever (27), forever and ever (20), forevermore (2), long ago (1), never *(1), old (1), time (1), world (7), worlds (1).

Matt 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Mark 13:31 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Luke 21:33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

Heaven and Earth will eventually pass away, there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.
But God's word, stands forever.

If God can control the courses of stars, and rivers, and knows the numbers of the hairs on your head....
If God can control air currents, where raindrops fall, and where grass grows....

He can control what happens to His Word. He can control the meaning of men's words in relationship to His Word.

 

[complete]

Will the Unbelieving Dead Become Non-Existent? (Annihilationism)

Will the Unbelieving Dead Become Non-Existent? (Annihilationism)

Annihilationism is a popular belief, even among Christians, and it has been growing more popular in recent years. Those who hold the position of

www.blueletterbible.org

Hello there, @Sosthenes,

I thought I would go back to the OP, and see what it's original purpose was. I see that you ask, 'Will the unbelieving dead become non-existent?'

Man does not have an immortal soul, and only the power of the resurrection can raise the dead to life again. The Scripture is clear that the dead will be raised either to life or to Judgment; and if to judgement, there is the prospect of experiencing the second death, from which there is no return.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Br. Bear]

Isa 40:8; The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever.

1Pet 1:25; BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURES FOREVER." And this is the word which was preached to you.

αἰών
aiōn; from a prim. root appar. mean. continued duration; a space of time, an age: — age (20), ages (6), ancient time (1), beginning of time (1), course (1), eternal (2), eternity (1), ever *(2), forever (27), forever and ever (20), forevermore (2), long ago (1), never *(1), old (1), time (1), world (7), worlds (1).

Matt 24:35 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Mark 13:31 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Luke 21:33 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

Heaven and Earth will eventually pass away, there will be a new Heaven and a new earth.
But God's word, stands forever.

If God can control the courses of stars, and rivers, and knows the numbers of the hairs on your head....
If God can control air currents, where raindrops fall, and where grass grows....

He can control what happens to His Word. He can control the meaning of men's words in relationship to His Word.

For the word of the LORD is right; and all His works are done in truth.


He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.


By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.


He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: He layeth up the depth in storehouses.
Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of Him.


For he spake, and it was done; He commanded, and it stood fast.


The LORD bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought:
he maketh the devices of the people of none effect.
The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever,
the thoughts of His heart to all generations.
Psalm 33:4-11

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

 

[Br. Bear]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1

For the word of the Lord is right and true;
He is faithful in all He does.
Psalm 33:4


For the Lord gives wisdom;
from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
Psalm 2:6


After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.


And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus? And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
Genesis 15:1-4

 

[Br. Bear]