Can Salvation Be lost?

[Butch5]

Hello @Butch5,

With respect: No. I used the concordance to find references to the word, 'sealed', and that also gave me the definitions for it, which I have shared with you. Looking up the references was my intention with the view to reading and comparing them.

Ownership means that I am the Lord's, and the context reveals that I am His purchased possession, which He will surely 'redeem'. That is enough for me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

But that doesn't prove one can't be lost. It may be enough for you, that's great. But it doesn't prove your point

 

[complete]

What does being "stamped" with a seal of ownership have to do with OSAS?



In your own words, what is the difference between the two?

Hello @B-A-C,

With respect to you, 'once saved always saved' is not a statement you will find in Scripture, but the question, 'Can salvation be lost?' is a valid question, and worthy of consideration.

The seal of ownership has everything to do with my assurance as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. For as a member of the Church which is His Body, with Him as my Head, I am joined to Him. Of course He will redeem me.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

But that doesn't prove one can't be lost. It may be enough for you, that's great. But it doesn't prove your point

Hello @Butch5,

It is not a matter of proving a point, but of having the blessed assurance that I am His and He is mine, and that nothing can separate me from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. Why do you want to take that assurance away.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Butch5]

Hello @Butch5,

It is not a matter of proving a point, but of having the blessed assurance that I am His and He is mine, and that nothing can separate me from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. Why do you want to take that assurance away.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

Chris,

Your question is whether or not salvation can be lost. That's a yes or no question. Either it can be or it can't be. It's not about assurance. Assurance comes from living out one's faith. But, assurance doesn't answer the question. If the answer is yes, it can be lost, and we claim it can't be, we don't have assurance, we have a false assurance. A dangerous false assurance. So, I think it is a matter of providing it one way or the other.

 

[complete]

Chris,

Your question is whether or not salvation can be lost. That's a yes or no question. Either it can be or it can't be. It's not about assurance. Assurance comes from living out one's faith. But, assurance doesn't answer the question. If the answer is yes, it can be lost, and we claim it can't be, we don't have assurance, we have a false assurance. A dangerous false assurance. So, I think it is a matter of providing it one way or the other.

Hi @Butch5,

I will rest on the finished work of Christ, and the knowledge that I am 'complete' in Christ Jesus my Lord. I have no doubt that the answer is a resounding 'NO' to that question, 'Can Salvation Be Lost?'. For nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:39). I am in Christ, by God's hand (1 Corinthians 1:30-31) so this is not a false assurance: for it is firmly bedded in God's Word, and in the person and work of my Saviour, in Whom I trust. I am sorry that you do not share that assurance.

The work which He has begun in me, He will continue to do until the day of Christ.(Philippians 1:6)

I close here, with my love to you and all who have taken part.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Butch5]

Hi @BUTCH,

I will rest on the finished work of Christ, and the knowledge that I am 'complete' in Christ Jesus my Lord. I have no doubt that the answer is a resounding 'NO' to that question. For nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:39). I am in Christ, by God's hand (1 Corinthians 1:30-31) so this is not a false assurance, for it is firmly bedded in God's Word, and in the person and work of my Saviour, in Whom I trust. I am sorry that you do not share that assurance.

The work which He has begun in me, He will continue to do until the day of Christ.(Philippians 1:6)

I close here, with my love to you and all who have taken part.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

You're taking those passages out of context. Based on that I don't think your conclusion is based in Gods word. Especially since Jesus Himself said some believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. That statement from Jesus really ends any debate at all and clearly answers the question in your op.

 

[complete]

You're taking those passages out of context. Based on that I don't think your conclusion is based in Gods word. Especially since Jesus Himself said some believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. That statement from Jesus really ends any debate at all and clearly answers the question in your op.

Hello @Butch5,

That must be your last word to me, for I have finished my part in this conversation. You need to rightly divide the word of Truth, and then such passages as that which you have mentioned would be understood in relation to the time in which they were spoken, to whom, and with what intent. For it is the failure to do so which is creating so much uncertainty in those who do not see that the gifts and calling of God are indeed without repentance.

You can say that I am taking verses out of context if you wish, but I know whom I have believed, and like Paul am persuaded.

The End.

Chris

 

[B-A-C]

The work which He has begun in me, He will continue to do until the day of Christ.(Philippians 1:6)

Php 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
Php 3:11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
Php 3:16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Php 1:6; says the work is started, but it doesn't say it is done. Paul acknowledges it isn't done yet. He also says we have to do our part in the next chapter.

Php 2:12; So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

 

[Butch5]

Hello @Butch5,

That must be your last word to me, for I have finished my part in this conversation. You need to rightly divide the word of Truth, and then such passages as that which you have mentioned would be understood in relation to the time in which they were spoken, to whom, and with what intent. For it is the failure to do so which is creating so much uncertainty in those who do not see that the gifts and calling of God are indeed without repentance.

You can say that I am taking verses out of context if you wish, but I know whom I have believed, and like Paul am persuaded.

The End.

Chris

This is how the discussions usually end. The point is never proven. And I need to rightly divide the word so I can see the truth. Oh, how many times am I going to hear that in the OSAS discussions?

 

[Butch5]

Php 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;
Php 3:11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
Php 3:16 however, let us keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

Php 1:6; says the work is started, but it doesn't say it is done. Paul acknowledges it isn't done yet. He also says we have to do our part in the next chapter.

Php 2:12; So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

You know what's funny? The work that Paul is talking about in Phil. 1:6 is something that that particular church was doing to help him in his ministry. He wasn't saying that God saved them. It's not even about salvation. The Philippian Church was helping Paul financially. People take it out of context all time.

 

[KingJ]

I doubt it's a Mike Tyson knock out punch since the Bible doesn't even teach the doctrine. What post contains your four points? I'll address them.

Great, look forward to a discussion. Post # 41

Can you likewise please provide your ''top'' three or four reasons for your non belief in OSAS.

 

[KingJ]

Brother,

The anti-osas crowds are largely followers of religions and preachers who teach that say "unless you tithe you are none of HIS", or "unless you speak in tongues you are none of HIS", or "unless you refrain from eating meat you are none of HIS", or "unless you confess every single sin to the very earliest sin you've committed, you are none of HIS." Their theology is based not on grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, but on added WORKS and GIFT of TONGUES for salvation. Those are modern day pharisees and they will be liable for all they have done in the flesh.

Yes, agreed. There is also the crowd that is a bit more sincere though. Take @BAC for example. He would disagree with the ''tithe to stay saved'' crowd.

Those here who are anti-osas are probably the ''best'' ambassadors for this theory of thought. But they have not meditated long enough on scripture and grasped that the A-Z of such a belief paints God as wicked and foolish.

As I have said, it mocks the very foundation of Christianity. It is a belief the devil can play with to attack the core of our belief.

 

[KingJ]

Rather than saying God is partial, how about saying God is sovereign. As sovereign over all that HE has created, God does not owe anyone an explanation as to why some go to hell while others go to heaven, HE simply tells us by HIS HOLY WORD that this is so. That's the essence of sovereign.

Kudos to you Jerry for an insightful reply to my post.

However .....

Yes, agreed God does not owe us an explanation. But, all of scripture paints a picture of God placing Himself on our level, wanting us to serve Him ''because'' we grasp He is good Psalm 136:1.

Meditate on the fact that God shows emotions. A God who created all......shows......emotions. I may not grasp the A-Z of God, but what we can and must grasp is that God of the universe, chooses, to be good and treat us with dignity.

As such, He places / has to place limiting factors on His sovereignity. Think about how He allows evil, something He utterly hates to take place in '''His realm''' in which He is ''sovereign''.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Yes, agreed. There is also the crowd that is a bit more sincere though. Take @BAC for example. He would disagree with the ''tithe to stay saved'' crowd.

Those here who are anti-osas are probably the ''best'' ambassadors for this theory of thought. But they have not meditated long enough on scripture and grasped that the A-Z of such a belief paints God as wicked and foolish.

As I have said, it mocks the very foundation of Christianity. It is a belief the devil can play with to attack the core of a our belief.

Yes, the devil is the author of confusion, and "we are not unaware of his schemes.” 2 Corinthians 2:11.

 

[Reba1]

I do not understand why people think or believe God can loose what is His .

 

[JerryfromMass]

Kudos to you Jerry for an insightful reply to my post.

However .....

Yes, agreed God does not owe us an explanation. But, all of scripture paints a picture of God placing Himself on our level, wanting us to serve Him ''because'' we grasp He is good Psalm 136:1.

Meditate on the fact that God shows emotions. A God who created all......shows......emotions. I may not grasp the A-Z of God, but what we can and must grasp is that God of the universe, chooses, to be good and treat us with dignity.

As such, He places / has to place limiting factors on His sovereignity. Think about how He allows evil, something He utterly hates to take place in '''His realm''' in which He is ''sovereign''.

Yes, God allows evil, and in doing so good is manifest in all and from all that share the LIGHT of our Savior and Lord. Evil is darkness and the LIGHT conquers darkness. Amen and hallelujah.

 

[Downunder]

I do not understand why people think or believe God can loose what is His .

Because salvation is not for robots - we have free will just like the angels to choose between good and evil - to choose between faithfulness and giving up.
Christians who stop living the gospel lose God.

 

[PloughBoy]

Well, Jack Campaign he was a wicked man, Stole from friends as well as foes. And Jack Campaign he never cared for anyone, Well Jack Campaign was all alone. Then came his day to stand before the Lord Give an account of his life Said, "I'm sorry, I don't want to die" Well Jack Campaign began to cry The Lord said, "Sorry, I never knew you Sorry, but it's too late, too late Sorry, I never knew you Depart from me, you've sealed your fate"

John L. Jones was considered a good man By all the people throughout the land John L. Jones he had the good book on his shelf But John L. Jones lived for himself Then came his day to stand before the Lord Give an account of his life "I went to church you know I paid my tithes" All the Lord said was, "Why?" The Lord said, "Sorry, I never knew you Sorry, but it's too late, too late Sorry, I never knew you Depart from me, you've sealed your fate"

Well C. T. Studd he was a humble man Served the Lord both night and day Well all his life he lived to honor him And at his feet he learned to pray Then came his day to stand before the Lord Give an account of his life With tears of joy streaming down his face Said, "My King died in my place" The Lord said, "Enter into the kingdom!" "Enter in my friend," he said it again "Enter into the kingdom!" "For now your life will never end" "Enter into the kingdom!" "Enter in my friend," he said it again "Enter into the kingdom!" "For now your life will never end!"

Enter In - Barry McGuire & Seeds

I like it!

 

[Butch5]

Because salvation is not for robots - we have free will just like the angels to choose between good and evil - to choose between faithfulness and giving up.
Christians who stop living the gospel lose God.

Right! The angels were God's too. A third of them will be destroyed for disobedience.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Because salvation is not for robots - we have free will just like the angels to choose between good and evil - to choose between faithfulness and giving up.
Christians who stop living the gospel lose God.

Salvation is like pregnancy: you're not half saved, or nearly saved. You're completely and eternally saved. If you have a miscarriage or if you have an abortion, you can not say you did not have a baby because you did have a baby, it just did not live outside of the time it spent alive in the womb. Same with salvation: you are reborn once and thereby saved eternally. If your works are nil and your life does not appear to manifest what other people claim is required for their proof of being born again and saved by the Holy Spirit, it is your heart that is known only by God, and it is what is on your heart that counts toward your salvation and heavenly eternity. You might lose rewards for so.e of what you did or failed to do, but you are still saved and are still counted among those sealed with the HOLY SPIRIT of promise.