Speaking in Tongues: Its Origin [Ancient and Modern] , Purpose, and Power

[B-A-C]

@ B.A.C. -- it's obvious that we're from different backgrounds. You're possibly Pentecostal and I'm conservative Baptist. Have been all my life. Two different approaches to Scripture. You're staying with Scripture from a transitionary phase Of the New Testament. Scripture moves on From that.

Probably true. But that doesn't change what the Bible says.
So when did the new testament quit being "transitionary"? (By the way I went to a baptist church for over 12 years)
None of the Baptists I know believe this. They don't practice the gifts of the Spirit, but they believe in them.
How do we know it's still not transitionary today? When did the Bible say this changed? It doesn't, because it hasn't.

 

[Curtis]

What did Jesus say was needed to be saved? (born again)

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

What happened when Philipp went and preached to Samaria?

Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

How did the people respond to the message Philip preached?

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

These people believed and were baptized making them a child of God according to Jesus's own words.

Where they filled with the Holy Spirit at their conversion?

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Being born of the Spirit, and being filled with Spirit are not the same thing!

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- Look at 1 Corinthians 15:1 - 4 -- Moreover brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved.
vs 3 ...that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures."

Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

@ B.A.C. -- we know that Acts is a transitionary book, because the Holy Spirit does not come upon a new convert in 'flames of fire'.

The Old Testament was Law to show us the need For the cross of the New Testament -- New Testament is grace.

In my days, I've been to a variety Of Baptist churches. Being Baptist pretty much means that baptism is done by bodily immersion rather than sprinkling.

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are different from the fruits of the Holy Spirit. There are a couple of passages that list/ name the particular gifts of the Holy Spirit that each believer is given at the time of his / her salvation.

1 Corinthians 12 and 14 speaks of spiritual gifts And tongues.

What 'brand' of Baptist churches did you go to. And why did you switch.

The spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit are meant to help the local church run more smoothly. The fruits of the Spirit are how a person can tell that a person is truly a born-again believer.

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- in John 3 -- Jesus Christ is telling Nicodemus that a man needs to be born physically and Then be born Spiritually.

The people believed First and Then were baptized. And what happens to the person who Can't be baptized right away? Are they not completely saved? Baptism Is wonderful -- it's the outward picture of what a person has already believed in their heart. And there Will be the desire To be baptized. But the theif on the cross believed in his heart but never had a chance To be baptized.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis -- Look at 1 Corinthians 15:1 - 4 -- Moreover brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved.
vs 3 ...that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures."

Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

There are millions of people on this earth that are "born again" Christians enjoying the benefits of the "fruit of the Spirit", and there are millions who have never been "filled with the Spirit"! Why? Because they do not believe they need it.

Which is OK to me if that is all you want. The problem is NOT having enough faith to believe it, the problem is in NOT making a decision to actually believe what God says! The Lord always gives you faith to believe, but only to those who decide to believe what he tells them.

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- the fruits of the Spirit are part Of salvation -- proof of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is Always in the person once they are believers. Our Spiritual tank won't always be full to the brim. Like a car's gas tank. As we drive our vehicle we Will be using gas to get anywhere. And we periodically put more gas in our cars/ truck gas tank.

So -- you believe that if we want our spiritual gas tank full All the time -- we can have that. We simply have to have enough Faith to get that accomplished.

So we are to obey Him completely in order to have that much faith to keep our spiritual tanks full all the time. Isn't that sort of a works' based salvation. And If we obey Him all the time -- we probably Won't be sinning?!

All 'we' have to do is believe Everything God / Jesus Christ tells us.

We All have the propensity For sinning. We'll Never be sinfree in this life time. Only in heaven.

 

[amadeus2]

Dear Brother,
Don't often use the language, but know it enough since it was my first language.
That being said.

Un dia nos vamos a ver junto en Gloria con Hermano Bendito.
Siempre dando Gloria al Senor me hermano en Cristo.

Never could add the necessary punctuation's in Spanish via keyboard like you were able to do.

Con el amor de Cristo Hermano mio.
Nick
<><

No hay problema amigo.
Spanish extras are obtained under any font by holding down the ALT key while typing one of the following four digit numbers:

á = 0225
Á = 0193
ó = 0243
Ó = 0211
ú = 0250
Ú = 0218
í = 0237
Í = 0205
é = 0233
É = 0201
ñ = 0241
Ñ = 0209
¡ = 0161
¿ = 0191

I printed all of these plus those for German on a little cheat sheet attached to the top my desk next to my computer. They can be found on your computer by going to the Control Panel. Then click on "Appearance & Personalization". Then click on "fonts". Then click on the font you want like "arial". Then on the left side of the resulting window it will say something like "Find a character". Click on that and a small window entitled "character map" will open with all of the possible characters under that font. Find the character you want like for example an inverted question mark and click on it. It will then show in the lower right hand corner of the window the words "keystroke Alt + 0191".

When you are actually typing sentences of paragraphs in the language you may find it easier once you have used one of these extra characters once to "copy and paste" it rather doing the complete keystroke again each time.

La próxima vez va a ser muy sencillo, ¿No?.

 

[amadeus2]

Dear Brother,
Don't often use the language, but know it enough since it was my first language.
That being said.

Un dia nos vamos a ver junto en Gloria con Hermano Bendito.
Siempre dando Gloria al Senor me hermano en Cristo.

Never could add the necessary punctuation's in Spanish via keyboard like you were able to do.

Con el amor de Cristo Hermano mio.
Nick
<><

Sí, vamos ver todos los amigos salvados en ese día.

 

[amadeus2]

I started learning Spanish a few years ago. Then my instructor decided he wasn't going to teach any more.

Guess I didn't realize that That was a speaking in a prayer language. Or considered 'speaking in tongues'. In some parts of the country it would be called being bi-lingual.

Seems that since I was in high school, in order to qualify for college entrance a person Had to have two-years of a foreign language. Back in Iowa -- we had a choice of German, French , maybe Italian, or Spanish. It was assumed that if a person could learn a foreign language in high school, then their brains could handle college level studying.

You were fortunate in having so many choices. I went to a small high school in California and the only foreign language offered was Spanish. Years later after my separation from the army I attended a Junior College in a larger city and began my German studies as well as resuming my Spanish. I regularly now read my Bible in both Spanish and German along with English in order to keep up those languages and to get a different perspective to what I am reading. I've been doing this for years now. There Spanish speaking people in Oklahoma but finding anyone speaks German is a rare thing.

I also talk to the Lord every morning in prayer, but that comes out in a language unknown to me... that's OK because God understands. I have been praying in an unknown tongue since 1976. [I'm 75 years old.]

 

[amadeus2]

It should be clear to anyone that there is a difference between a "river flowing out of a person", "to having a bubbling spring of water" springing up to eternal life. Receiving the Holy Spirit which turns into a "river" after one believes in Jesus to being born of the Spirit referencing to a spring of water to eternal life is quite different.

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Joh 4:13 Jesus answered her, "Anyone who drinks this water will get thirsty again;
Joh 4:14 but whoever drinks the water that I will give him will never, no never, be thirsty again, for the water that I will give him will become a spring of water that keeps on bubbling up within him for eternal life." (Williams)

Then consider also these:

"Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.
The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen." Isaiah 43:19-20

"And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not." Isaiah 58:11

"And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." Rev 22:1-2

 

[amadeus2]

No body could be "born of the Spirit" until Jesus had finished his work of salvation on the cross and after his resurrection from the dead. After Jesus was risen he appeared unto his disciples, and said this.....

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
John 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Nobody spoke in tongues here, not until they were filled with the Holy Spirit many days later.

The door leading to Life was not opened yet, but, then again, Jesus was the Door, was He not?

"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." John 10:9
Being the Door he was able to allow access but as you said the big event for all of us occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. Jesus had paid the price to get that Door [himself] open for "whosoever will". But, we don't just walk through in a "come as you are" fashion. Trying that may find us in outer darkness instead of approaching the Light more closely and becoming also the Light of the world [Matt 5:14].

 

[amadeus2]

No one speaks in tongues today...nobody. The rhyming noises are just that...rhyming noises made in the flesh

You have been misinformed, my friend!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Sí, vamos ver todos los amigos salvados en ese día.

Esa es la esperanza que tenemos en Jesu Cristo mi hermano.

También quería agradecerte por los consejos sobre las marcas españolas mi hermano. ¡Debería ayudar mucho!

Con el amor de Jesu Cristo.
YBIC
Nick
<> <

 

[Sue D.]

Okay guys -- even Scripture says that you need an interpreter. Please

 

[Bill]

There Are times / circumstances that the gift of tongues Might be used -- as the Holy Spirit 'sees the need'. But I see a difference between the Biblical 'praying in tongues' when a person is in their private time and it 'happens'. But in a church service, there Are guidelines for Biblical tongues to 'happen'. For when unbelieving Jews are present. Or when there are lots of people who speak different languages in a place and everyone apparently is understanding in their own language. But - due to modern-day interpreters -- that rarely would happen. Even in the United Nations meetings -- a person can see lots of people using head phones. It's the modern technowledgy being used. In those rooms full of people -- everyone is hearing the same speech in their own language.

And, maybe, the gift of knowledge -- receiving a 'word of knowledge' like one TV person says -- well -- the Holy Spirit Does give that and we Do have the written word that God speaks through. So -- I AM skeptical of some of those gifts still being present 'now'.

"Do we still have knowledge today" -- good question -- what Kind of knowledge is being talked about. Some people say that science and Bible Don't mix. And I'd suggest that Real science Does agree With Bible. We need to put Bible First though. When science disagrees with Bible, Then we need to be careful.

The Holy Spirit is ever present . And the Gifts come from the Spirit.

It is only in man's ignorance that you would hear, do we need the Gifts anymore. I say we need Gods Gifts more than ever .

 

[Bill]

What is always happening is that we are growing toward God... This is something we should be doing every single day always remembering that this is the day that the Lord hath made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it. Jesus grew and so must we... but today must also work while it is day for soon the night cometh when no man can work:

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work." John 9:4

True enough brother

 

[Br. Bear]

Okay guys -- even Scripture says that you need an interpreter. Please :smile:

in other words:

Si hablare alguno en lengua extraña, sea esto por dos, ó á lo más tres, y por turno; mas uno interprete.
1Corintios 14:27


Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

No sava nada!

 

[Sue D.]

in other words:

Si hablare alguno en lengua extraña, sea esto por dos, ó á lo más tres, y por turno; mas uno interprete.
1Corintios 14:27


Bless you ....><>

"If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret."

 

[Sue D.]

No sava nada!

actually it's supposed to be "no saba nada" and means 'he knows nothing' -- you typed 'sava' instead of 'saba'

ya know how I know That -- ya simply Google it and ask for the English translation. That gives correct spelling.