Active
No problem! :smile:
Intellectualism vs. True Religion. Your thoughts?
Loyal
Yeah....I think I'll let Mr Quantrill open a thread of he wants to continue the argument. :grin:
Active
How did I quote (Is. 10) out of context? Both God's judgement against Israel and Assyria are the context. And as to your statement that God does not punish you to teach you something, how ridiculous is that? (Heb.2:2-3) "For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;...." And (Heb. 10:28-29) "He that despised Moses law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hast said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
So, you see the contrast of both covenants. Yet God's judgement is found in both. As to your statement that God will not break your leg to teach you something, that is silly. God will break whatever it takes to teach you something. Be it leg, arm, back or whatever. Of course, if you are not His, He won't waste His time.
As to your question which is, "if Paul got clobbered, why would God use that as how we can be victorious?", who said anything about being victorious. The thorn in the flesh was given to keep him dependent on God, humble before God, not to have him gloriously victorious. He was already victorious in how God was going to use him and reveal to him things not known before.
Why would satan give Paul a thorn in the flesh so he would not be exalted above measure? (2 Cor. 12:7) Are you saying satan wanted Paul humbled before God.? Are you saying satan had God's interests in mind?
Quantrill
Active
I did open a new thread considering Job if you care to continue. I do think Pauls experience is pertinent to this discussion as the thorn in the flesh is due to his much knowledge and revelation he has been given. But we can continue in the Job thread.
Loyal
Let me start here. Heb.2:2-3 What does that say? God breaks your arm to teach you something? Not at all! Why did you use that verse? Show me a single verse where God makes you sick to teach you something....In our covenant please....In the Old Covenant the rules were somewhat different. Then God did punish people, but He still never killed a single human being, and he never broke anyone's leg to teach them something.
Look. I'm going to stop here for a bit....I need you to explain to me why you use Old Covenant to prove your point? The old covenant is not the new covenant....God works differently in both...until this 'dispensation' is done. While you are figuring that out....I'll try to figure out why I'm arguing the Book with someone who doesn't even believe in reading it.
Active
I used both (Heb. 2:2-3) and (Heb. 10:28-29) to show that God brings judgement on His people under the New Covenant just like He did under the Old. A fact that you questioned.
Are you kidding me? You say God never killed a single human being. You apparently have never read the Old or New Testament. Look in the book of (Exodus) where Israel sinned with the golden calf. Before that look at the flood in Noah. God killed everyone but 8 souls. In the book of (Acts) God killed Ananias and Sapphira. And how many die in the book of Revelation? The Covenants may change, but God does not change.
What you need to do is answer the question I asked. Why would satan give Paul a thorn in the flesh so he would not be exalted above measure?
Quantrill
Loyal
The Book does NOT say God killed those people....Did God remove his protection from around them? And Satan took his own? Perhaps...But you judge with no facts, no Word, no evidence....
The Book does not say God killed Ananias and Saphira....It says they dropped dead because they lied to the Holy Spirit. Yet you accuse God with no Word, No facts, no evidence....
As for the people in Noah's flood....I still state emphatically...God did not kill any human beings. You need to study the Book to see what the situation was in Noah's day. Shocking!! According to the Book there was only eight humans left on the Earth...and God saved them.
Loyal
Oh!! Me love popcorn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Active
(Gen. 6:13) "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."
(Ex. 32:27) "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every m an his neighbour."
(Acts 5:5-11) "And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost:...Then fell she down straightway at his feet and yielded up the ghost...."
etc. etc. etc.
Quantrill
Loyal
Acts 5:5-11 verifies what I said....The Book does not say who killed them. Yet you blame God. Interesting.
Ex. 32:27 I will concede here on this one point....God had to kill three thousand human beings for deliberate rebellious pagan worship....People who were deliberately rebelling against God....I could call it "Cut out the cancer" So there is one place....
You mentioned Noah again.....There were only eight humans left on the planet and God saved all of them.
Active
Yes, God killed three thousand and God killed a whole lot more in the flood. And God will kill a whole lot more during the Tribulation period as shown in the book of (Revelation.)
I didn't say God did not save Noah and his family. I said God killed everyone else in the world with the flood. You can deny it all day long, yet I have given you Scripture. So, what is your problem?
Now, back to my question in post [HASH=1558]#(46[/HASH]). Why would satan give Paul a thorn in the flesh so he would not be exalted above measure. (2 Cor. 12:7)
Quantrill
Loyal
I thought we were talking about this on the Job thread....I'll take this over there.
Active
Loyal
Well, I came over to this thread to see what Sue had to say. Since I'm here I'll say again. The word religion makes my skin crawl....It's always mixed with intellectualism and is usually a mix of myth, lies, superstition and mores and taboos...not to mention charms and, well I'll leave it there.
Active
Yup I don't like the word religion either (or the connotations that this word has nowadays).
Active
It apparently makes a thread get views though. :grin:
Loyal
Oh It do, don't it?
Member
We must become as little children for of such is The Kingdom of Heaven made up of. It requires a trusting childlike quality to be born again. Spirituality is not an intellectual pursuit. I received my B.S from a major engineering school in mechanical engineering and spent my career staying up to date with physics and the very things I learned in school. However, when it comes to Spiritual Matters, I pray I always put my trust in Christ and never man. I also taught mathematics and engineering at two different universities over my career. However, I do not buy into the world view. My memory isn’t what it used to be but I recall a survey done around 1980 where 80% of biologists did not believe in evolution. Things have changed dramatically since then. The probability of intelligent sentient life occurring at random is virtually impossible given the short periods of time that planets thrive and produce those things necessary for life to exist. When I took astronomy, we were taught that the earth wobbles with an approximate frequency of one cycle every 26,000 years with an ice age every 13,000 years.