Member
Why would being bad come natural? Good can't come natural, why?
works has nothing to do with salvation yet it is a by product
Loyal
look at children do you have to teach them how to be bad or good which one come natural to them, all children have to be taught to be good, being bad comes natural to them
Loyal
The short answer would be.. because the Bible says so. I assume that isn't what you are looking for.
This is the classic argument if liberalism vs conservatism.
One believes man is born evil and learns to be good.
The other believes man was born good and learns to be evil.
But hundreds of studies have been over the years. In orphanages in third world countries where there wasn't enough people to staff
and care for these children. many thousands (millions?) of them died of neglect and starvation.
They didn't always have people around to teach them good or bad. There was no television, no nannies, no schools.. nothing but themselves
and other children. Ever had a two year old? (I've had four, more if you count grand-children).
Do you think they naturally share? Do you think they naturally tell the truth if something comes up missing?
Do you think they won't take cookies from the cookie jar given an opportunity? Do you think they never tell you "no".
Do you think they always share, and never hit one another?
Do you think they never say "mine"? Over whelming evidence points to.... we are already pretty evil, even when we are toddlers.
Member
They can do both, it's up to the carer's to encouraged the good.
Active
Whose morals do unbelievers follow?
Member
The same one's Christians do and don't do. There's no difference here, morality and right behavior is not exclusive to Christianity.
Active
How can someone who doesn't believe in God assert that they try to follow His guidelines?
Or are you trying to lfollow some other "man's" guidelines?
Loyal
Many people THINK if they do as the bible says That they will go to Heaven.
Many have not met Jesus in a personal way.
Any one can read a book and do what it says. The difference here is it amounts to nothing if they know not Christ and will not have the Power of God working in them.
Member
I follow my conscience, it's my best friend.
Active
Matt 5:21-23 speaks of actual murder / being a murderer. If the unsaved can prove a minor is incapable of 1st degree murder, why is that we can't? I don't think Paul will be impressed with your discernment after he said 1 Cor 6:1-9.
The latter part of the scripture you quoted is directed at me? If so, I can bring you scripture on rebuking false teaching swiftly. Your case will not hold water because I can also prove cherry picking of my lines by you to make it.
The only wickedness taking place is the miss representation of God from cherry picking scriptures.
Example: Let's say you wanted to date my sister. You asked me to put in a good word for you. Now, I know that you work in a garden, have one grey hair and feed pigs. I also know that you are kind to people underneath you and that you will help any person who comes to your door. Now, I go and tell my sister, '''this guy I know who has dirty feet, grey hair and smells like a pig wants to date you''.
God helps EVERY person that comes to His door. ANYONE can come to His door. Jesus IS knocking on the door to EVERYONE'S heart. No exclusions. STOP miss representing Him with your cherry picked theology.
All children go to heaven. You are ok with serving a god that you believe sends minors to fire? Jesus says heaven belongs to them. Scripture says under 20's among Jews in the desert were spared God's wrath. God tells us repeatedly to grasp He is good. Have you read the bible?
No you don't.
You don't believe a ''different'' theology. We are not clashing on Rom 14:5 issues. You are painting God as wicked. That is false teaching.
No, I don't. Has Wikipedia got it wrong? Please explain how.
His disciples who loved Him chopped off the ear of a Roman trying to do Him wrong. It would more concerning if I just keep quiet to keep the ''peace''. Christianity is not about sweet discussions. Like we are all snowflakes. Prov 27:6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.
The reason mankind is accountable for their sin is due to the fact that they have been giving a working brain that can discern right from wrong. So, yes, to a degree He does.
Scripture is full of examples where prophets rationalized God's wrath with God. The two most classic examples are Moses with the golden calf and Abraham with Sodom. They agreed with God's decision. God did not / does not do anything a good person will disagree with. There is also plenty scripture speaking to God wanting us to grasp He is good.
Now what annoys me about you, is that you call wicked, good. Just be honest and call wicked, wicked. Say ''I believe God is wicked''. Then deal with it. Don't say people don't understand. That is a terrible defense of your belief. You need to grasp the fact that not a single sane person on this planet will defend partiality as good.
Active
1. If a non believer did what God wanted, he would be a Christian. God would pay him a visit.
I agree with good works and what not. We are on the same page there. But God wants something more from us. Look at the young rich man who Jesus told to sell all he has in Mark 10:17-31. Look properly at Psalm 51:17, it speaks to a depth of repentance. Look at Matt 16:24, unless you lay your life down and carry your cross.
God wants us to go one step further. It is not unreasonable either. It is the difference between being good on date nights to your casual girlfriend verse dedicating yourself completely and making her your wife. Good people are dating God, Christians are married to God. God has already proposed to us, laid His life down for us, He wants a bride.
2. When you are in that special relationship with God, you are more sensitive to what pleases and displeases Him. You also become more dedicated to doing His will. God died for mankind because He loves us. As a Christian better grasps the love of God (they growing daily), they should be able to reciprocate that love to others at a level the non believers can't. Though surprises are always welcome. Some good people out there who do not profess to be Christians, I won't argue with that.
3. I think you would think differently if you were living in a society not impacted by Christian morals.
4. I wouldn't define it like that. Our moral compass / conscience originates from our working brain. A brain that God gave us. It is the reason we are all accountable for our actions.
I feel you need to be reminded on why Jesus came to earth. Luke 5:32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
For us to murder a little child requires us to sink to a depth of evil intent.
For God, it does not. Now we have to understand why this is and judge God properly.
God's thinking with the flood for example, was to bring change. Because mankind (not children and animals) were wicked. Children and animals are always casualties of war and change. But they both go straight to heaven.
The only blur is as to when children will grow up and be tested. Rev 20:10 speaks of a time the devil will be released from the abyss in the millennium, to test mankind for the last time. I would imagine this is when they will be tested.
Does your conscience tell you to turn the left cheek?
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Member
Being impartial does not mean treating everyone the same. A football team may have three quarterbacks. They have a starter, 2nd and 3rd string quarterbacks. Treating these partially would be to pick the starter based on race or kinship with the coach for example. Treating them impartially would be to pick the starter based on the merits of their play and ability. Impartiality says it will not base decisions on irrelevant information but base decisions on relevant information like ability in the QB example. God does not choose whom he saves based on ethnicity, wealth, education or how good people are etc. If he did then he would be guilty of partiality and be wicked. God does not base his decisions on these things.
1 Cor 1:26-31 says:
"Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord."
Gods choice is based on his hidden wisdom that we are not privy to.
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will." Eph 1:11
Were not chosen with partiality or irrelevant considerations. His choice is not based on anything we do, not or goodness or anything, it is based on his reasons and not anything of ourselves Romans 11:5:
"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."
Active
The QB's ability can be matched to us coming to God. Agreed, this is impartiality. The QB has shown a desire for the position. We show a desire for God.
You are again making those poor verses say something they don't. It is just saying that we must not think the greatest on earth are the chosen. It speaks to impartiality.
Now you completely contradicting what you just said about the QB.
As to the verse, the chosen are pre destined to be in Christ. The chosen are the whomsoever will open the door to Jesus knocking at the door. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Salvation is grace. There are three destinations you need to grasp.
1. Where we currently are.
2. Where we need to get.
3. Where God is.
We cannot go from 1-3, as Jesus is needed to take us to 3. That is all the verse you quoting says. Calvinism is a belief that God picks us at 1 and takes us to 3. We need to go to 2. 2, is our part. It is opening the door to Jesus to come into our hearts Rev 3:20. It is sincere repentance Psalm 51:17. It is laying our lives down to follow Him Matt 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.
Now, when you consistently quote scripture only speaking to point 1 and 3, I can't but help question your motives. Your honesty in reading scripture. Why do you do this? It is as though you are reading 1/10th of the bible. Please return to the logic you have shown with the QB.
Active
Your "conscience", relative to what?
Don't you think Hitler was following his conscience?
Seeing no evil in killing millions?
Or does following your conscience make things alright, regardless of what others feel is good or bad?
Member
Ok thanks. Have a blessed day.
Member
No, Hitler was not following his conscience.
Active
What leads you to believe that?
Loyal
God showed me a vision one time of a large family. Each of the family members represented a different church. Some older some younger. Yet all of them thought they had the nich on God. Each thought they, and only they were the special one. That no one else knew God as they did.
They were constantly bickering to eachother, i know God, you dont. Then the Lord said to me. There are many people in all the churches who love me, and i love all of them.
Member
Because the conscience is your last line in the defense of perverse thought's, if you don't listen to what it says you'll turn out like Hitler.
Active
I am sure Hitler's conscience convicted him. I don't think this is an argument that proves anything.