Faith??

[KingJ]

Then I guess it will end here.
1. If you can not properly keep a conversation in order it just becomes a bunch of words meaning nothing at all.
2. It sad my friend when you are quick to say I am wrong and such but won't take the time to keep things orderly.

Point form is more orderly for me. You just need to read my pt 11.

I took time and effort to type that and you call it just a bunch of words that have no meaning? :rofl:

Also note it's silly replies like this that just brings strife and confusion to a thread.
I post ....
1 Timothy 6:12
KJV
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
You then say
It's like child's play.

My line is inline with James 2:19. People say ''we believe we believe''. Big deal. The devils believe.

You espouse ''Have faith have faith'' Faith In what? Faith in faith is inline with positive thinking and utterly disrespectful to God. Absolutely shocking and disgraceful to be taught alongside Christian faith. Which is faith in Jesus.

Childs play? We can have faith in Mickey Mouse. We can have faith in grey aliens. Heck, they reckon half of America believed in mermaids after the mockumentary by animal planet.

The heresy going around today is all the teaching that makes us a demigod. ''We have faith that can affect an outcome''. We are Christians. Christians are children of God. No child would ever interact with their loving father in that manner. The Jews would. They were not children of God. We are.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The heresy going around today is all the teaching that makes us a demigod. ''We have faith that can affect an outcome''. We are Christians. Christians are children of God. No child would ever interact with their loving father in that manner. The Jews would. They were not children of God. We are.

What exactly are you talking about?
Blessings

11. 100% nonsense. Putting our faith in God put's us at ease. As Paul says he has learnt to be content in all things Phil 4:11. God brings the victory, not our faith. Paul was shipwrecked, yet he was content in it. Because he had faith in God being good. IE Faith in God having a good reason for the shipwreck. Just as Abraham did with his son. We trust in God through the storm. Faith in God being good is greater faith then believing God exists and can do anything. You sound like you are suggesting our faith in our faith brings us victory. You are completely missing it.

Number 11 dissected
1.100% nonsense.

What is 100 percent nonsense?

2. Putting our faith in God put's us at ease. As Paul says he has learnt to be content in all things Phil 4:11.

What is your point and what are you referring too?

3. God brings the victory, not our faith

Yes God brings the victory through your faith. Without Faith you won't see the victory.

4 .Paul was shipwrecked, yet he was content in it. Because he had faith in God being good. IE Faith in God having a good reason for the shipwreck.

Being Content means being the same in Joy and Faith no matter what you are going through.

Disobedience caused the shipwreck.
God said don't leave or you will loose the ship.
They left and they lost the ship.

Now there is your #11 lol
Faith is much more then just believing in God.
Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for but not yet seen.

Believing in God does not get you the victory. Believing in His Word and doing His Word will. If you stand and don't waver or crumble or give in.
Blessings

 

[KingJ]

Number 11 dissected
1.100% nonsense.

What is 100 percent nonsense?

This statement by you. ''Faith is what gets you to the victory''.

2. Putting our faith in God put's us at ease. As Paul says he has learnt to be content in all things Phil 4:11.

What is your point and what are you referring too?

Faith in God shines when you in a storm.

3. God brings the victory, not our faith

Yes God brings the victory through your faith. Without Faith you won't see the victory.

Please explain what faith you are referring to. What type of victory are you referring to?

4 .Paul was shipwrecked, yet he was content in it. Because he had faith in God being good. IE Faith in God having a good reason for the shipwreck.

Being Content means being the same in Joy and Faith no matter what you are going through.

It means your faith in God loving and caring for you is still standing. Despite the storm you in. I doubt Paul was full of joy when he was beaten, starving, shipwrecked etc etc (his list is long).

Disobedience caused the shipwreck.
God said don't leave or you will loose the ship.
They left and they lost the ship.

You are referring to 1 of 3 shipwrecks. This one you referring to in Acts 27, Paul said they would sink. But you are missing the point. The point is, they (and Paul) sunk, starved, went through crazy storms. What did Jesus do when a storm came? Why did Paul not do that? Did Paul not have faith?

Now there is your #11 lol
Faith is much more then just believing in God.

Faith is not ''more'' then believing in God. There are ''more'' examples of faith we can have.

Faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for but not yet seen.

Don't stop there. Explain now what that faith is in. You created the substance of faith for what? What do you hope for that you can not see?

What is Christian faith?

We are not disagreeing on the definition of faith. We are disagreeing on its application. I can have tons and tons of faith...in Mickey Mouse giving Minnie Mouse some flowers for valentines day.

Believing in God does not get you the victory.

You putting words in my mouth. But lets go with it. What belief in God does not get victory? Well many believe in His existence. That won't, agreed. What of belief in God being Jesus? A belief in Jesus being Lord? This is a faith in God given by God to those who want to make Him Lord. So in that instance, yes. That faith will give you victory over sins. That is our Christian faith.

Believing in His Word and doing His Word will. If you stand and don't waver or crumble or give in.

So, you don't have faith in God and Jesus. You have faith in your ability to ''stand and don't waver or crumble or give in''. Do you believe God does not answer the prayers from faith of a nervous and crumbling child as He would a child not nervous and crumbling?

You are teaching Judaism, not Christianity.

I have heard you say ''Believing in His Word and doing His Word will'' on many occasions when discussing faith. Why?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I doubt Paul was full of joy when he was beaten, starving, shipwrecked etc etc (his list is long).

I believe you are confusing Joy with Happiness.
Happiness depends on feelings
Joy in the Lord is a choice. It does not care what is going on for it is always there.
That is if you have learned to operate in His Joy.

Joy is a strength.
Joy never changes in the good or bad.

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Don't stop there. Explain now what that faith is in. You created the substance of faith for what? What do you hope for that you can not see?

What is Christian faith?

We are not disagreeing on the definition of faith. We are disagreeing on its application. I can have tons and tons of faith...in Mickey Mouse giving Minnie Mouse some flowers for valentines day.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.

Above is What God has said about Faith.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@KingJ ,
Hi KJ,
Thank You for taking the time to include the quotes. I sure do appreciate it.

I just wanted you to know I am not ignoring all the things you quoted, I am just logging in as I can and replying to one at a time as time allows.

Blessings my Brother
W4F

 

[KingJ]

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Now faith is the assurance of what we hope for and the certainty of what we do not see.

Above is What God has said about Faith.

We do not disagree on the definition of faith. Please re-read what I wrote.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

So, you don't have faith in God and Jesus. You have faith in your ability to ''stand and don't waver or crumble or give in''. Do you believe God does not answer the prayers from faith of a nervous and crumbling child as He would a child not nervous and crumbling?

You are teaching Judaism, not Christianity.

I have heard you say ''Believing in His Word and doing His Word will'' on many occasions when discussing faith. Why?

Kj,
I don't think you are really grasping what I am saying and it gets twisted in the replies.

It's not Faith in my ability or faith in anything of me.

It's not faith in faith.

It is Faith or Trust or Believing 100 percent without doubt or fear in what He has said in His Word.

The promises of God to us just don't simply manifest in our lives automatically. If they did we would not have Christians living a defeated life.

You like examples, so here is one.

Your doctor says you have 6 months to live.
God says He Will heal you of ALL your diseases.

You now have 2 choices.
1. Believe the doctors report
2. Stand strong on God's Word.

Now when the symptoms continue to grow and you see and feel your self slipping away and thoughts come that it must not be God's Will to Heal me. What do you do?

Believing that God loves you is a Great Thing but it is not enough.

Our enemy the devil will fight you against your healing.
If you want your healing you are going to have to fight and that's the good fight of faith.

Fear and doubt strips your faith.
It robs you of your faith
It keeps you from getting the victory and in this case your healing.

Ephesians 6:13
So put on all the armor that God gives. Then when that evil day comes, you will be able to defend yourself. And when the battle is over, you will still be standing firm.

Standing Firm - Steadfast in Faith -
Not Wavering - Nothing perverts your Faith (trust) in what God's Word Says.

Fear and doubt can not get in.
Mark 5:36
As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

You asked about "substance" in Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Following along in this example,
Things not seen - Your manifestation of your healing.

Substance -
Assurance - Un movable Trust or Knowing in God's Word.
The ability to keep doubt and fear out of your heart which includes your mouth ( what you say )

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Mark 11:23
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

James 1:6
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Why is this spoken so much in His Word.....

Simple
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

It says Looking for some one he can devour.....
This means he needs a way or a Spiritual Right.
Doubt and Fear are Legal Rights for him to begin to work in that area.

So we must fight the good fight of faith and stand against the enemy until we get the victory and in this example healing.

Blessings
W4F

 

[KingJ]

That is if you have learned to operate in His Joy.

Joy is a strength.
Joy never changes in the good or bad.

Blessings

I disagree. I don't think Paul had any joy when he was beaten or starving. But the real issue is, why did he not stop the storm? or the beating. Or the starving.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I disagree. I don't think Paul had any joy when he was beaten or starving. But the real issue is, why did he not stop the storm? or the beating. Or the starving.

KJ,
Again I believe you are not separating Biblical Joy from natural happiness.

Scripture says They sang Praises to God after being beaten to near death.

Paul spent much time elaborating on The Joy Of The Lord. So you now think Paul did not live or dwell in the Joy of the Lord during a shipwreck

No the real issue is not why Paul did not stop anything.
This part of the conversation started with you and being content in all things. You can not be content in all situations outside of operating in the Joy of the Lord.

Being Content in any situation is not accepting it.
It's knowing that God will get you through it and you don't have to stay there.

You have the same Joy and Trust and Confidence in God and His Word in the bad things or times as you do in the good times.

P.S....God told Paul he would stand trial before Caesar.

Paul could not have kept the ship from being wrecked.

God said DO NOT SAIL OR THE SHIP WOULD BE LOST.
The men ignored Paul's warning from God and sailed anyway.

That was DISOBEDIENCE to what God said and there is always consequences for disobedience.

In this case the loss of the ship.

Now here is where it gets intetesting.
God had already told Paul he would stand before Caesar .

So Paul would survive the shipwreck even if every man died.
However Paul Prayed that God would spare the men.

God agreed but gave precise instructions.
If they would have disobeyed God again they all would have died except Paul.

The Joy of The Lord is Vital and Necessary Integral Part of Biblical Faith.

Blessings
W4F

 

[KingJ]

Kj,
I don't think you are really grasping what I am saying and it gets twisted in the replies.

It's not Faith in my ability or faith in anything of me.

It's not faith in faith.

It is Faith or Trust or Believing 100 percent without doubt or fear in what He has said in His Word.

This faith is given. We either have it or we don't. As I said to you Judaism vs Christianity.

The promises of God to us just don't simply manifest in our lives automatically. If they did we would not have Christians living a defeated life.

You like examples, so here is one.

Your doctor says you have 6 months to live.
God says He Will heal you of ALL your diseases.

You now have 2 choices.
1. Believe the doctors report
2. Stand strong on God's Word.

Now when the symptoms continue to grow and you see and feel your self slipping away and thoughts come that it must not be God's Will to Heal me. What do you do?

Believing that God loves you is a Great Thing but it is not enough.

Our enemy the devil will fight you against your healing.
If you want your healing you are going to have to fight and that's the good fight of faith.

Fear and doubt strips your faith.
It robs you of your faith
It keeps you from getting the victory and in this case your healing. .

This is Judaism, not Christianity.

Jew = Stand strong in faith and promises will come to pass. Also, obey commandments or bear the curse of disobedience.

Christian = You are now a child of God. The old covenant manner in dealing with God on a curse and promise basis is gone. Having faith in God's ability to do a miracle and your ability to stay positive until it comes to pass...is gone.

Just ask yourself the question: What family member do you interact with as you are proposing we interact with God?????? Dear dad, I am still feeling very positive about you healing my broken foot. Sounds like someone who doesn't know their father.

Ephesians 6:13
So put on all the armor that God gives. Then when that evil day comes, you will be able to defend yourself. And when the battle is over, you will still be standing firm.

Standing Firm - Steadfast in Faith -
Not Wavering - Nothing perverts your Faith (trust) in what God's Word Says.

This is speaking to endurance. Not faith or God not helping because your faith is wavering. If anything God will help the person who is wavering more.

Fear and doubt can not get in.
Mark 5:36
As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Believe in Him. Do you think He would say this to a Christian? An unsaved Jew, yes. But us???

He would say to us ''why you fear? you should know better my son, I have this under control, don't stress''. Judaism vs Christianity.

You asked about "substance" in Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

We do not disagree on the definition of faith. You are confusing application with definition. Which results in you pushing faith in faith.

Following along in this example,
Things not seen - Your manifestation of your healing.

Substance -
Assurance - Un movable Trust or Knowing in God's Word.
The ability to keep doubt and fear out of your heart which includes your mouth ( what you say )

Mark 11:24
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

You honestly think context does not need to be applied to this? You have not in the slightest tried to grasp why Jesus says this? You just read the line 'as is'?

Jew = need to believe that God will make a plan to get their 'good gift' request.
Christian = knows that their request does not fall on deaf ears. They know God will answer their prayer for a good gift / do His best to supply. Like any good father would. We either believe God is good or we don't. If we do, why muster it up? A Jew has to, because they don't know God the Father. A Christian also knows when God is not going to supply. Christian maturity is all about getting to know God better. God is 1000% in the direction of humility and would not want us to ask for gifts that push vanity, or test, or tempt Him. Jews could test Him. Not us. Well, we shouldn't. It is disrespectful.

Mark 11:23
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

James 1:6
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Why is this spoken so much in His Word.....

Simple
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I have never seen anyone move a mountain. Why? If only faith the size of a mustard seed is required. Christians don't waver. Christians have built their house on a rock.

It says Looking for some one he can devour.....
This means he needs a way or a Spiritual Right.
Doubt and Fear are Legal Rights for him to begin to work in that area.

The devil cannot devour a Christian, fullstop.

Do you think I will tell my little daughter that I left her outside with a pedophile because she didn't have sufficient faith in me opening the house door for her to come in? .

So we must fight the good fight of faith and stand against the enemy until we get the victory and in this example healing.

The good fight of faith is not a battle of keeping our faith from wavering. It has to do with Christian faith. We as born again Christians have absolute faith. We believe in God like we do in gravity. It is a good fight of keeping our Christian faith. Which is not bowing the knee to anyone except for Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

KJ,
Again I believe you are not separating Biblical Joy from natural happiness.

Scripture says They sang Praises to God after being beaten to near death.

Paul spent much time elaborating on The Joy Of The Lord. So you now think Paul did not live or dwell in the Joy of the Lord during a shipwreck

No the real issue is not why Paul did not stop anything.
This part of the conversation started with you and being content in all things. You can not be content in all situations outside of operating in the Joy of the Lord.

Being Content in any situation is not accepting it.
It's knowing that God will get you through it and you don't have to stay there.

You have the same Joy and Trust and Confidence in God and His Word in the bad things or times as you do in the good times.

P.S....God told Paul he would stand trial before Caesar.

Paul could not have kept the ship from being wrecked.

God said DO NOT SAIL OR THE SHIP WOULD BE LOST.
The men ignored Paul's warning from God and sailed anyway.

That was DISOBEDIENCE to what God said and there is always consequences for disobedience.

In this case the loss of the ship.

Now here is where it gets intetesting.
God had already told Paul he would stand before Caesar .

So Paul would survive the shipwreck even if every man died.
However Paul Prayed that God would spare the men.

God agreed but gave precise instructions.
If they would have disobeyed God again they all would have died except Paul.

The Joy of The Lord is Vital and Necessary Integral Part of Biblical Faith.

Blessings
W4F

Why did Paul not calm the storm or turn three fish into 5000 when he was starving? Did he not have faith?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@KingJ
Hey my Brother,
I just wanted you to know I am not ignoring you .
It might be awhile before I can sit down and reply.

In the middle of a wonderful Snow Storm and I have to walk to the grocery store and pack mule some groceries home. Lol that's what it feels like.

This may take some time.
I will get back to you.
Hope all is well
Blessings
W4F

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ
Hey my Brother,
I just wanted you to know I am not ignoring you .
It might be awhile before I can sit down and reply.

In the middle of a wonderful Snow Storm and I have to walk to the grocery store and pack mule some groceries home. Lol that's what it feels like.

This may take some time.
I will get back to you.
Hope all is well
Blessings
W4F

No problem bud. Enjoy the storm.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings @Dave M

I have been reading this thread with interest even though it goes off track considerably at times.

I am not going to get involved in the gentlemanly discussion here....but just wanted to share a thought.

To me saying dead faith is like saying cold fire.

Faith is about believing
Faith is about power (even a mustard seed)

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:8

Being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
Philippians 1:6

Dead faith equates to no real faith ever at all.....hence no growth, no works, no fruit.

 

[Dave M]

Faith with out works is dead

ok I get that. does that mean dead faith can not save you?? this I can not answer for sure but I can look at the thief on the cross and see that he had faith, yet he had no works (he had no time) so was his faith dead?, because I know he was saved and I am almost certain he had no works.


the word of God has a direct relationship to faith it seems
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

faith also seems to be connected to Grace
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

my belief is
faith comes from God and we can grow it, by studying the word of God and being obedient to God and living the word of God and praying and fasting doing good works and asking God for more of it. .

so my thinking on the matter is and it may be wrong but I think faith is faith, dead faith is still faith its just not active, dead faith is not the same as NO faith, with NO faith you have no chance at all of being saved with dead faith I think( and I may be wrong) that you have have a chance at being saved. Dead faith seems like person who believes but never matures in Christ never grows in Chirst. Just my thoughts on the subject I know one thing we can all agree on is I dont want nothing to do with dead faith I like to think of faith as a action word

 

[KingJ]

Faith with out works is dead

ok I get that. does that mean dead faith can not save you?? this I can not answer for sure but I can look at the thief on the cross and see that he had faith, yet he had no works (he had no time) so was his faith dead?, because I know he was saved and I am almost certain he had no works.


the word of God has a direct relationship to faith it seems
Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

faith also seems to be connected to Grace
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

my belief is
faith comes from God and we can grow it, by studying the word of God and being obedient to God and living the word of God and praying and fasting doing good works and asking God for more of it. .

so my thinking on the matter is and it may be wrong but I think faith is faith, dead faith is still faith its just not active, dead faith is not the same as NO faith, with NO faith you have no chance at all of being saved with dead faith I think( and I may be wrong) that you have have a chance at being saved. Dead faith seems like person who believes but never matures in Christ never grows in Chirst. Just my thoughts on the subject I know one thing we can all agree on is I dont want nothing to do with dead faith I like to think of faith as a action word

Not to argue, but we have to be pedantic on Rom 10:17 with all the faith teaching today. Paul preached Christianity. The faith he is referring to in Rom 10:17 is Christian faith. Christian faith comes from hearing and hearing through the word of Christ.

Eph 2:8 Can be re-worded to ''God in His grace gives faith to those chosen, to believe Jesus is Lord / God the Son''.

Bearing this in mind. Faith is not faith. The faith we referring to has to always be qualified. Dead Christian faith has no works. You cannot have Christian faith and not have works. God does no give 'dead' faith.

So, the verse ''faith without works is dead'' is talking in reverse. It is like saying ''house that does not stand is built on sand''. We have Christian faith. We have a house built on a rock. Therefore a true Christian cannot ever have dead faith. It is just like the OSAS argument.

 

[KingJ]

Faith in the old covenant:

No Christian faith was given. All faith in God and Him sticking to His promises had to be mustered up. No fear. No doubt. Believe promises will come to pass. Give expecting a return.

Faith in the new covenant:

We have been given faith to call a man who walked the earth two thousand years ago, God of the universe. We hear God's soft voice speak to us. So on these two points, faith in Jesus and faith in God's voice speaking to us, no more faith is needed. As we either believe Jesus is Lord or we don't. We either hear God's voice, or we don't. We give expecting nothing in return.

So what faith does a Christian grow in? It is more trust / faith 'in' God. A human brain cannot grasp how good and consistently good, God is. Our faith in Him grows daily.

We have affirmation on Christian faith and ever growing expectation faith in His enduring goodness.

Conclusion:

A Christian will be loyal to God even through a terrible storm. A common Jew will swop religions if his faith does not end the storm. I say common as the prophets and many deeper Jews were not common. We know this from the exodus. These Jews showed they would serve God despite the suffering they endured.

 

[Dave M]

Hey KJ I was listing to Charles Spurgeon last night and he has the same view as you on faith I may very well be wrong on the dead faith thing, but what is faith with out works that saves like the thief on the cross then?

So your saying dead faith is NO faith then?

DO you believe that you can grow your faith?

PS brother I know you are not arguing I always enjoy your thoughtful post, and especially in the loving way you present them weather i agree or dis-disagree

 

[Br. Bear]

Dave,
the thief did work. Confession was made with his mouth. That is a mighty work.
Try not to fit any concepts of anything, faith included into what we have been told. Many do it and by doing so, they copy. Right down to using all the same words and perhaps even appearing to be getting the same sort of results but they copy men and not the Lord. He says, I do not know you to them.

Abraham is a good man to study in the New Testament and then looking to the Old Testament about him.
Look for example at what the LORD said to Isaac in Genesis 26
And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar. And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:

Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Because that Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:1-5

One reason to see this is because Abraham was before Moses and what we understand as the Law and Commandments, etc
We also, with this in mind have to look differently at some of the 'teachings' taken from/based on the New Testament writings.
Again, look at all the references in the New Testament to Abraham, especially regarding faith... the substance of things hoped for .... evidence of things not seen and remember the thief spoke and called upon the Lord, believing. If we merely think it, we are not doing much at all with any conviction we might or might not have and we are certainly not going to call out to the Lord in faith if we only think it, which was an option for that thief. (and by the way, it worked!!)

It may help define or re-define what faith without works is dead means. Praying for you Brother,


Bless you ....><>