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Faith??

Discussion in 'Bible Chat' started by Dave M, Feb 3, 2018.

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  1. It is not faith that saves. The faith God gives is evidence of being saved. We have the cart before the horse.

    The thief next to Jesus was different to the other criminal. He was concerned with Jesus suffering for sins He did not commit. He had compassion for Jesus. He showed a good heart. God judged the heart and mind. They passed. Jesus could then say to him, I will see you in paradise.

    The thief was then likely given a revelation of who Jesus was. It is this spiritual revelation of Jesus that is Christian faith. Only faith because it is spiritual. But it is as real to us as gravity. Hence, anyone proposing we need to grow in faith does not understand faith. Anyone proposing we need to grow in Christian faith, does not understand Christian faith.


    Peter knew Jesus was more then a man. Peter had faith that Jesus was able to help him to walk on water. Yet, even he needed Christian faith. Matt 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    This revelation of who Jesus is, is given to all Christians. Christians are humans who have passed His judgement and are now adopted. Evidenced by them calling Jesus Lord. Just as the thief did. That is why we have scripture saying this: John 14:16 I am the way and the truth and the life, nobody comes to the Father but through me. And John 3:16 ''whosoever believes He is Lord''. 1 Cor 12:3 'Nobody says Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit''.



    Your statement is like saying ''dead love is no love''. What love is dead? What faith is dead?

    If I have no works, my faith in grey aliens may be alive but my Christian faith is dead.


    Grow what faith?

    We can grow in faith in God as daily we better grasp Him. Look at Abraham conversing with Him over Sodom. Abraham asked questions of God he was not certain of. God revealed Himself to be exceedingly good. Abraham's faith in God being good, increased.
    But faith in God's existence and Jesus being Lord (IE Christian faith), how do you grow in that? You either know it or you don't. As scripture says ''My sheep hear my voice''. It does not say after removing all doubt and fear, my sheep hear my voice. Or after a level of faith is built up, my sheep hear my voice. It is all nonsensical statements. We either are His sheep who hear His voice or we are not.
     
  2. KJ thanks you for taking the time to respond, I with much respect for you must disagree with you on growing your faith not being possible. I get the idea from reading what you wrote everyone gets the same amount of faith, maybe I am not understanding correctly???? yet in scripture Jesus complimented the centurion for his great faith and scolded others for there little faith, to me it seems there are different levels of faith., not only that he tells us to pursue faith. I do believe we can grow as Christians and become more mature in our walk, and I do believe we can grow in our faith and get greater faith when we pursue it.

    Luke 7
    When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, “I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel.


    Matthew 15:28
    Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.

    Matthew 14:31
    Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, “O you of little faith, why did you doubt?

    Matthew 8:26
    And he said to them, “Why are you afraid, O you of little faith?” Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm

    1 Timothy 6:11
    But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.



     
  3. I never said we can't grow in faith. It is all about what faith we grow in.

    The centurion had faith in a miracle worker called Jesus. The woman in Matt 15:28 had faith in a man called Jesus who was a miracle worker. Those in Matt 14:31 had little faith in the miracle worker, Jesus. Same for those in Matt 8:26.

    As for 1 Tim 6:11, pursue what faith? Why do we not define the faith we referring to when we will properly define every other word there? If a preacher were preaching on that verse and talking to love, they would say 'pursue love for God firstly and secondly love for others''. If steadfastness, they would say ''remain steadfast in your convictions''. But yet when it comes to faith...

    ....what faith?????? :smile:
     

  4. @KingJ this site is talkjesus. Everybody is talking about faith in our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus to fulfill his promises.
     
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  5. #65 KingJ, Feb 13, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
    I have proven that some here are referring to faith in faith and not Christian faith. I honestly love your statement. It is true and always refreshing to hear Jesus in the same sentence as the word faith.

    Now to interrogate your statement a bit. What promises must Jesus still fulfill? The only promise we holding onto by faith is the promise to be reconciled with God. We can't grow in that faith. We either have a realistic expectation from faith given to us or we don't.

    I propose there are many 'faiths' one can have in Christianity. i Faith in one God, ii Faith in God's existence, iii Faith that Jesus is God the Son, iv faith that God is good and not evil as Rom 9 says a 'god' can be evil, v faith that God's word is true and uncorrupted. Faith in God being good can branch out into actual application examples. Like faith in His impartiality. Faith in Him keeping us in His love for eternity. Faith in Him being good to all and not merely the chosen. I am reminded of Abraham's faith in God growing after he discussed Sodom's destruction with God.

    I believe we can only grow in faith in God. There is no other faith that a Christian can or needs to grow in. But some preachers, will have us apply effort in the direction of Judaic type faith. As those unsaved had at the time of Jesus....in Jesus the miracle worker. Not the Jesus who we are able to confidently call our Lord and God our Father.

    So you end up with ''Christians who believe in Jesus'' and yet treat Him as though they are unrelated to Him. Interact with Him as though He is an object of two shades. Blessings and curses. There is Christian faith and then there is faith in promises being kept by the miracle worker, known as Jesus.

    Christian faith will stand if God loses His Kingdom. The other faith will fall and serves whoever has the 'power' to affect positive outcomes. I am sure God is dying to do that acid test among us Christians. He loses all His power, who serves Him now. Who has '''faith''' when God will not and can not provide that increased salary or healing? Obviously God does not need to do this as He knows the depths of our hearts and minds. But do we? Where is our faith and love if we are twisting God's arm for our positive outcome?

    Job was a great man of faith. Because he stayed loyal to God despite hell hitting him.
     
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