Faith??

[Bendito]

Not the disagreement...The tone..the stife

 

[Born Again 2004]

Then being such a short discussion between with you and having no problem with our differences, the tone you refer too must be on the use of the word friend....I thought you used it first, so there was no tone there to begin with? I have already apologized for using it....have you?

 

[Bendito]

Then being such a short discussion between with you and having no problem with our differences, the tone you refer too must be on the use of the word friend....I thought you used it first, so there was no tone there to begin with? I have already apologized for using it....have you?

Have I forgiven? I took no offense and you are forgiven of course....

 

[Born Again 2004]

Have I forgiven? I took no offense and you are forgiven of course....

Sorry again....I must have misread you saying: "Not the disagreement...The tone"!...I am not sure what the problem with my tone was but, you saying it seemed a bit of an offense to you. That is why I apologized!! Also,especially when you dislike my attitude ( ?), stating I wanted to fight(?) and that you were never going to talk to me again....but you took no offense?

 

[Bendito]

Sorry again....I must have misread you saying: "Not the disagreement...The tone"!...I am not sure what the problem with my tone was but, you saying it seemed a bit of an offense to you. That is why I apologized!! Also,especially when you dislike my attitude ( ?), stating I wanted to fight(?) and that you were never going to talk to me again....but you took no offense?

No..I took no offense...No I did not say I would never talk to you again...I said "If you want to fight I'm not going to talk to you..because I'm not willing to fight.... I said nothing about tomorrow or the next day.....Discussing can be fun..arguing or fighting is bad bad bad

 

[Born Again 2004]

.No I did not say I would never talk to you again

Man I am on a role...sorry again, I miss understood it when you said: " I'm not going to talk with you" and I didn't know that having a difference in opinion with someone was arguing or fighting!!!

 

[Brad Huber]

Faith caught up in trying to be right and get in the last word can sort of be dead as well. How about that, back on topic. :wink:

 

[KingJ]

Can you have dead faith and still be saved??

The word faith can be a tricky word. Abraham had faith 'in' God. He did not have Christian / saving faith. IE Faith to believe Jesus is Lord. He was saved as were all those in Abrahams bosom. So, in the OT 'yes'ish'? Faith to believe Jesus is Lord is given and this only happens by the Holy Spirit after the cross 1 Cor 12:3. We could be dead to this faith until the last moment. This is why we can't say who is and who is not saved on their death bed for example. I would say a great many God fearing people are.

On the subject of dead faith, I see a great number of Christians that practice it. Faith in faith is dead faith. Whenever someone says phrases like: You lose your faith due to fear. You lose your faith due to doubt. You need to repetitively confess to build your faith. You need to remain positive. It is all evidence toward a dead faith. Christian faith is an '''absolute faith''. Once we have been given faith to believe Jesus is Lord, we have faith in Jesus being Lord. It is on par with a belief in gravity. Anyone who says it can be weakened or lost, does either not understand Christianity / gravity or they are pushing a false teaching for .......money in their pockets. I utterly hate the faith teaching going around today. It is pure cancer to our Christianity.

We grow in a relationship with God. From glory to glory. NOT from faith to faith. Unless the faith we referring to is ''faith IN Jesus''. IE Growing in a relationship.

 

[Hekuran]

Not really sure what we mean by 'dead faith'. I would guess that dead faith saves to the same extent that a dead battery gives power.

My intuition is that faith, like fire, only exists when it is active.

Taking it outside of the matters spiritual - if I have faith in my doctor, I will take the advice and medicine she prescribes. I couldn't describe what dead faith in a physician might look like.

 

[Dave M]

Faith with out works is dead, is what the bible tells us dead faith looks like

James 2:17
So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

 

[Hekuran]

Ah, now I see. Here's the full passage.

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.​

My understanding is that that when James talks about 'faith apart from works is dead', he talking about faith that is inactive - merely a belief. So, I believe my mechanic when he says the brakes on my car are faulty, but I don't put that faith into practice by getting them fixed? I'm not on iota safer than somebody who completely rejects what the mechanic says.

Even the demons have this sort of faith - and it does not save.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The word faith can be a tricky word. Abraham had faith 'in' God. He did not have Christian / saving faith. IE Faith to believe Jesus is Lord. He was saved as were all those in Abrahams bosom. So, in the OT 'yes'ish'? Faith to believe Jesus is Lord is given and this only happens by the Holy Spirit after the cross 1 Cor 12:3. We could be dead to this faith until the last moment. This is why we can't say who is and who is not saved on their death bed for example. I would say a great many God fearing people are.

On the subject of dead faith, I see a great number of Christians that practice it. Faith in faith is dead faith. Whenever someone says phrases like: You lose your faith due to fear. You lose your faith due to doubt. You need to repetitively confess to build your faith. You need to remain positive. It is all evidence toward a dead faith. Christian faith is an '''absolute faith''. Once we have been given faith to believe Jesus is Lord, we have faith in Jesus being Lord. It is on par with a belief in gravity. Anyone who says it can be weakened or lost, does either not understand Christianity / gravity or they are pushing a false teaching for .......money in their pockets. I utterly hate the faith teaching going around today. It is pure cancer to our Christianity.

We grow in a relationship with God. From glory to glory. NOT from faith to faith. Unless the faith we referring to is ''faith IN Jesus''. IE Growing in a relationship.

Maybe...I'm not sure is means same or equal faith. It has appeared to me over the years that believers are given different measures of faith, maybe I am wrong.....;maybe some are stronger because they hear and read more of God's word than others.

Same measure Given .
Some believers just work harder at developing their Faith then others.

That Measure of Faith is as a Seed Planted. What becomes of it depends on each person and not God.

Scripture clearly teaches us how to develop our Faith.
That in its self says it's up to us.
Blessings
W4F

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

My understanding is that that when James talks about 'faith apart from works is dead', he talking about faith that is inactive - merely a belief. So, I believe my mechanic when he says the brakes on my car are faulty, but I don't put that faith into practice by getting them fixed? I'm not on iota safer than somebody who completely rejects what the mechanic says.

Even the demons have this sor

A Good Way to understand this is.
True Faith is Always followed by a corresponding action.
Blessings

 

[KingJ]

Same measure Given .
Some believers just work harder at developing their Faith then others.

That Measure of Faith is as a Seed Planted. What becomes of it depends on each person and not God.

Scripture clearly teaches us how to develop our Faith.
That in its self says it's up to us.
Blessings
W4F

A seed planted? What faith is planted? Develop what faith? As always I am completely dying to know what faith are you talking about. We have had this discussion many times in the past and I still believe you are stuck on the subject.

Faith is as much a stand alone word as belief. Saying I must have faith is like saying I must have belief or trust or hope. The issue is what we have faith, belief, trust and hope......in.

The context of this thread for example 'dead faith / faith without works is dead' has to do with a mix of faith in Jesus's existence, in Jesus being good, in God being Jesus / Jesus being Lord and perhaps also, but to a lessor degree as it is more a given, in the existence of a God, in the existence of the Holy Spirit. We show God that we believe in His existence when we live God fearing lives. As Christians it gets a tad more confusing as we are given faith to believe that a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is God of the universe. Now this faith is only given to a chosen person. God chooses to give this faith to the person that is after His heart. Now, here is the not so easy to grasp part ...evidence of having faith in Jesus being Lord is that good living works will follow. If you scratch a Christian you will find honey. Not a lemon. So just as Jesus can say ''I am the truth and the way'' due to Him knowing that anyone after His heart will receive a revelation of Him, He can now also say in much of the same vein, ''faith without works is dead''. He is referring to a Christian faith. A faith in Him being Lord. Which is given to those who want to actually make Him Lord, of which evidence is them obeying His commandments.

Now the reason you and I clash on this is simply because you speak the same / or a similar language on the subject to the extremely confused faith teachers of today. Faith is taught as a stand alone word. One that causes you to focus on / be mindful of positively confessing things, not fearing and what not else. It is all much to do about absolutely nothing. It is faith in faith. Completely missing the mark. A contrived belief system to bring pride and focus on tangible things into the church. I can not think of a more cancerous belief system. I pray someday you can grasp why I feel this way.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

A seed planted? What faith is planted? Develop what faith? As always I am completely dying to know what faith are you talking about. We have had this discussion many times in the past and I s

Greetings KJ,
Let's look at Scripture and see what it says.
1 Peter 1:23
KJV
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The measure of Faith is planted in man at this time.

EVERYTHING about the Word Of God has to do with SEED.

Faith is as much a stand alone word as belief. Saying I must have faith is like saying I must have belief or trust or hope. The issue is what we have faith, belief, trust and hope......in.

Brother KJ it's not me saying one must have Faith but the Word of God

Further more Jesus said many times ye of little faith and spoke of Great Faith.

Again scriptures prove their is not just faith but rather Faith needs to be developed, grown, built up strong.

faith without works is dead''. He is referring to a Christian faith. A faith in Him being Lord. Which is given to those who want to actually make Him Lord, of which evidence is them obeying His commandments.

Scripture also says
James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

So it must be more then just believing that Jesus is Lord !!

Now the reason you and I clash on this is simply because you speak the same / or a similar language on the subject to the extremely confused faith teachers of today. Faith is taught as a stand alone word. One that causes you to focus on / be mindful of positively confessing things, not fearing and what not else. It is all much to do about absolutely nothing. It is faith in faith. Completely missing the mark. A contrived belief system to bring pride and focus on tangible things into the church. I can not think of a more cancerous belief system. I pray someday you can grasp why I feel this way.

KJ here you make no sense at all.
You are quick to boast that servants of God don't understand Faith like you do.
Let me ask you an honest question Could it be that you yourself may not understand Biblical Faith as well as you feel you do?

Faith is not only a substance, a power but it is an action.
True built up Biblical Faith is the substance that keeps one standing strong and unwavering and not moved by anything but the Written Word of God.

It's what gets you to the victory.
Anything given unto us or promised to us By or Through Grace Must be Accessed BY FAITH.
This is where Faith either stands or crumbles. It's part of Fighting the good Fight of Faith.

Faith is far more then just believing in God.

As Always KJ,
It's a blessing and Joy talking with you.
God Bless
W4F

 

[KingJ]

Greetings KJ,
Let's look at Scripture and see what it says.
1 Peter 1:23
KJV
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1. The measure of Faith is planted in man at this time.

EVERYTHING about the Word Of God has to do with SEED.

2. Brother KJ it's not me saying one must have Faith but the Word of God

3. Further more Jesus said many times ye of little faith and spoke of Great Faith.

4. Again scriptures prove their is not just faith but rather Faith needs to be developed, grown, built up strong.



Scripture also says
James 2:19
5. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

6. So it must be more then just believing that Jesus is Lord !!



KJ here you make no sense at all.
7. You are quick to boast that servants of God don't understand Faith like you do.
8. Let me ask you an honest question Could it be that you yourself may not understand Biblical Faith as well as you feel you do?

9. Faith is not only a substance, a power but it is an action.
10. True built up Biblical Faith is the substance that keeps one standing strong and unwavering and not moved by anything but the Written Word of God.

11. It's what gets you to the victory.
12. Anything given unto us or promised to us By or Through Grace Must be Accessed BY FAITH.
13. This is where Faith either stands or crumbles. It's part of Fighting the good Fight of Faith.

Faith is far more then just believing in God.

As Always KJ,
It's a blessing and Joy talking with you.
God Bless
W4F

1. That verse mentions nothing about faith. It is referring to 'Jesus in us the hope of glory'. The incorruptible seed. You say faith is planted. Please tell me what faith is planted.
2. Of course we must have faith. But not faith in faith which is what you espouse when you do not qualify the faith you are referring to. We must have faith in God. IE Trust He is good. We grow in this.
3. He said this to the people who did not believe God could do anything. It is faith in God's power. Which starts with a faith in His existence. He could also have been referring to their faith in Him. I mean He had already proven Himself to be more then a man. Once you have faith in God and the fact that He created the universe, the faith needed in His ability to heal for example, is laughable.
4. What faith do we grow in? Faith in grey aliens? Faith in our ability to cast out all fear? Faith that our continuous confession causes God to jump? We grow in faith in God. Faith in Jesus. Just as everyday your faith in your wife's loyalty, love and goodness grows.
5. Please try grasp what faith / belief the devils have. They believe God is one, they believe God exists. ''thou doest well'' = big deal. It is hardly an achievement. Because they know God is God they tremble. As Isaac Newton says in a similar vein ''the thumb alone convinces him of God's existence''.
6. No. Christian faith is a faith in Jesus being Lord. As I said, absolute faith in a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago being God of the universe. The disciple with the most faith in Jesus, Peter needed this revelation faith too. He received it in Matt 16:16-17. This is Christian faith as John 3:16 confirms too ''whosever believes in Jesus''. Yes, there is other faith in different things. We can have faith in Jesus sticking to His word. We can have faith in Jesus not leaving nor forsaking us. We can also have faith in grey aliens and Mickey Mouse. So, please qualify the faith you imply. If you do not, it is faith in faith.
7. I am not boasting. Why would you say that?
8. I like to think I am always open to correction. You?
9. Yes indeed it can be. My daughter can be in a storm but if she fixes her eyes on me she should feel safe. If she would put faith in me looking after her, she would not run around in fear. IE Faith in me, her father, to protect and look after her. Likewise us with God. Faith in God.
10. What is biblical faith?
11. 100% nonsense. Putting our faith in God put's us at ease. As Paul says he has learnt to be content in all things Phil 4:11. God brings the victory, not our faith. Paul was shipwrecked, yet he was content in it. Because he had faith in God being good. IE Faith in God having a good reason for the shipwreck. Just as Abraham did with his son. We trust in God through the storm. Faith in God being good is greater faith then believing God exists and can do anything. You sound like you are suggesting our faith in our faith brings us victory. You are completely missing it.
12. You are talking as though you are not a Christian. Lets say I was a doctor. My kids got free medical attention. Would you say they need faith in me being a doctor? They 'should' know I am one. The neighbors kid however, not so fortunate. My kids will approach him and tell them that I am one. He then needs to trust them and make the effort to come see me. I will tell my kids that they must tell him that I will help him for free. I love to help others. That neighbors kid needs faith in my kids being truthful and then faith in me being able to help. Christians are children of God. We are adopted into His family. If you still need faith in His power or His love you need to re-visit your born again experience. We grow in Faith in Him. In His goodness. Christian forums are full of praises, testimonies and rhema's we have received from God on His goodness or on subjects we did not previously fully grasp. Take Peter in Acts 10:34 for example ''Of a truth I perceive''. Our faith in Him grows daily.
13. The good fight is not a fight of 'faith'. I can't believe you say that. It is a fight of commitment to Jesus / Not turning from a faith in Jesus. You are not grasping how terrible your statements on faith are :wink:.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The good fight is not a fight of 'faith'. I can't believe you say that. It is a fight of commitment to Jesus / Not turning from a faith in Jesus. You are not grasping how terrible your statements on faith are :wink:

1 Timothy 6:12
KJV
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

AS to the rest of your reply - please include a quote instead of your number systen.
I am not going to try and figure out what point 1 is to or your point 2 and so forth. Too much guessing.

Looking forward in continuing this.
Blessings
W4F

 

[KingJ]

1 Timothy 6:12
KJV
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

AS to the rest of your reply - please include a quote instead of your number systen.
I am not going to try and figure out what point 1 is to or your point 2 and so forth. Too much guessing.

Looking forward in continuing this.
Blessings
W4F

Quoting will take too long and I am basically saying the same thing in every point as I need to do once more.

The good fight of faith in Mickey Mouse?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Quoting will take too long and I am basically saying the same thing in every point as I need to do once more.

Then I guess it will end here.
1. If you can not properly keep a conversation in order it just becomes a bunch of words meaning nothing at all.
2. It sad my friend when you are quick to say I am wrong and such but won't take the time to keep things orderly.

The good fight of faith in Mickey Mouse?

Also note it's silly replies like this that just brings strife and confusion to a thread.

I post ....
1 Timothy 6:12
KJV
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

You then say

The good fight of faith in Mickey Mouse?

It's like child's play.
Anyway thanks for trying.
Blessings
W4F

 

[Br. Bear]

One could try humbling oneself, esteem other better and becoming a servant.

I occasionally remember this and I do know it is the better way.

As a royal priesthood under and for the LORD God, such qualities ought abound.

Let the world carry on as fools but let us not. Sitting on our own made high horses looking down upon others and never willing to wash feet or loosen shoes.