Perfection and Good Intentions

[Br. Bear]

@Wired 4 Fishen

Greetings,

May i draw your attention to your own words here:

By what right do you judge their doctrine?

Love does not insist on his way or push to be correct.

Not Jumping from thread to thread judging everyone and judging who is walking upright according to how you view things at this time.

none of us know it all or have things 100 percent correct.
Thus we should not act as if we do.

as I can't help but see that you, too, have been doing likewise and in fact perhaps, might even be doing so again here?

Forgive me if i am wrong, but that is how it read... to me. Maybe i need different glasses?

=================================
To all here,

It is a shame that there is so much talk against each other while neglecting the Word.
I know Jesus does not want that... but I know who does, don't you?
division is bad fruit whichever doctrine one wants to uphold.

Is it at all possible if everyone could try a little harder, please, to refrain from commenting about each other and stick to the beautiful expounding (opening up and seeing it's glory) of the Word?

I think one thing is happening here which is that one member is writing things without guile or bad attitude but due to the nature of the internet and this sort of online -read into it however you will, -lacking any body language, tone, etc- we can interpret the words used in a negative way/tone and therefore reply/react accordingly - or actually in a fleshy carnal sort of way.

I see members who can post all manner of lovely words about love who momentarily forget to practice it when someone says/writes something that is interpreted as malicious or judgemental... and we don't even seem to consider that we might even be wrong on this count... at least.

Here, in this thread we have a really real opportunity to bear/be/express./show good fruit... so let's do it!!!


Please.... Post In Peace... for Christ's sake.


Bless you ....><>

and PS to Lanolin, no offence, but please refrain from commenting to this post... please.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@Wired 4 Fishen

Greetings,

May i draw your attention to your own words here:









as I can't help but see that you, too, have been doing likewise and in fact perhaps, might even be doing so again here?

Forgive me if i am wrong, but that is how it read... to me. Maybe i need different glasses?

=================================
To all here,

It is a shame that there is so much talk against each other while neglecting the Word.
I know Jesus does not want that... but I know who does, don't you?
division is bad fruit whichever doctrine one wants to uphold.

Is it at all possible if everyone could try a little harder, please, to refrain from commenting about each other and stick to the beautiful expounding (opening up and seeing it's glory) of the Word?

I think one thing is happening here which is that one member is writing things without guile or bad attitude but due to the nature of the internet and this sort of online -read into it however you will, -lacking any body language, tone, etc- we can interpret the words used in a negative way/tone and therefore reply/react accordingly - or actually in a fleshy carnal sort of way.

I see members who can post all manner of lovely words about love who momentarily forget to practice it when someone says/writes something that is interpreted as malicious or judgemental... and we don't even seem to consider that we might even be wrong on this count... at least.

Here, in this thread we have a really real opportunity to bear/be/express./show good fruit... so let's do it!!!


Please.... Post In Peace... for Christ's sake.


Bless you ....><>

and PS to Lanolin, no offence, but please refrain from commenting to this post... please.

By what right do you judge their doctrine

This is simply a question to an answer I was given. It's an honest question.
If left in context, there is no harshness.

Love does not insist on his way or push to be correct.

Again it's a part of a reply to a statement given to me as a reply.

none of us know it all or have things 100 percent correct.
Thus we should not act as if we do.

The key here coupled with the entire conversation is None Of Us. This means, me, you and everyone else.

Nothing written was in anger or an attack. The entire reply shows this.

I apologize it was not clear enough.

Have a wonderful day
Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If any of you want to be my followers, you must forget about yourself. You must take up your cross every day and follow me

Take up your cross every day
Deny self or human nature which is Flesh every day.
This means not doing things Our Way but rather the way that is Written in the Word of God.

What is our way?
Why it's human nature and human nature is The Flesh.

Again we are also advised about the tongue.
The tongue is issued it's orders by either The Flesh or Spirit.

Now then IF once we are Born again all this is gone and no concern to the saved believers......
Then the Father wasted His time Telling us about these things because as Christians it does not exist.

The Holy Spirit must not understand that the Flesh was automatically destroyed and no concern to those who are His either.

However we know the above is foolishness.

Any time Scripture talks in detail many times in many different areas of God's Most Holy Written Word about any one thing - then we know it's vital and Directed To Every Born Again Spirit Filled Believer.

Scripture tells us The Flesh No Longer has power over us or we are not enslaved to the flesh any longer.

This is Because Christ has broken it's power over us. This means we now can through Christ overcome the flesh.......key is can and not automatically done.

Without Christ the Flesh can Not be controlled BUT With Christ we now can control, overcome or keep it under control.
That Is IF We Choose To.

The bigger issue is what believers truly consider the flesh. Far too many times what we think is Spiritual is simply just the flesh.

Blessings
W4F

 

[B-A-C]

Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

"Putting" is current tense. Not past tense. Mortify is present tense... "mortified" is past tense.

 

[At Peace]

Hmm..arent we renewed though. Once you kill something doesnt it stay dead. Why would the old flesh keep rising up. I dont get it. When God gives us a new heart of flesh...he removes the old stony hardened heart.

Maybe you both misunderstanding each other, I mean I know am not in my glorified body yet and my flesh is weak, I still need to eat and sleep....but eating and sleeping isnt a sin.

There's the kicker...it's not YOUR flesh anymore.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Paul warned us to "mortify the deeds of the body", in Rom 8:13, and "mortify your members which are upon the earth", in Col 3:5.
In this context, it infers "keep them dead".
Keeping them dead...or allowing them to live, are in our power, thanks to the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[At Peace]

Perhaps you are in to big of a hurry here.
Lost unsaved sinner repents and asked Jesus into their life.
God says yes and PLANTS Thee Seed in them, that is Himself.
This is called Being Born Again or as you said Rebirth.

That is a doctrine that is not in the bible.
Peter said in Acts 2:38 that lost unsaved sinner should repents of sin, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Paul says in Romans 6 that when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His deth, burial, and resurrection we kill the old man and are rised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
That is when we are reborn.

They are a new creation in Christ Yes.
However their old nature is still there strong as ever.

That's because you left out the baptism into Christ's death, thereby missing the crucifixion of the old creature...with its nature.

It does not vanish simply because the flesh or old nature has been crucified with Christ.

Then you are ignoring or disbelieving what is written in the bible.

This is something WE Must do over time by feeding the Spirit and starving the flesh.

You can't gradually change a fig tree into a grape vine.

By what right do you judge their doctrine?

It isn't a right, but a duty.
If things that are published are not in the bible, I have the right to say "they are not in the bible".

That's not Fruit of the Spirit but rather common sense.
Of course unless you are thinking of Love but then Love does not insist on his way or push to be correct.

Are not "common sense" and "Godliness" mutually understood?
Is it sensible to ignore the words or wishes of God?

Scripture tells us we need to work out or walk out our own salvation.
Philippians 2:12
And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Or Reverence and Awe

Are the folks who ignore that exhortation going to be "saved"?
Just because someone tells you not to kill anyone doesn't mean you were going to kill anybody.
These are church wide exhortations to maintain our Spirit in the face of sometimes overwhelming odds, but nothing can take us out of Father's hand.
Nothing can force us to commit sin.
Those who give in to temptation have elevated themselves above God.
That's idolatry.

Yes but that is through Fellowship One With Another
Not Jumping from thread to thread judging everyone and judging who is walking upright according to how you view things at this time.
You have to admit there is a HUGE Difference between the two don't you think?

If you feel "judged" by the words I use, perhaps you should feel guilty.
I push people to get "in Christ", and others just want you to "grow slowly into a better man".
How many days do you have left in which to "improve"?

All I am saying is none of us know it all or have things 100 percent correct.
Thus we should not act as if we do.

I don't "know it all", but I know enough to keep me from serving sin. (John 8:34)
If that's not something you crave, why are you even here?

 

[At Peace]

Rom 8:13; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
"Putting" is current tense. Not past tense. Mortify is present tense... "mortified" is past tense.

What happens to all those folks who never complete that "putting to death the deeds of the body"?
It erroneously assumes that you will always be "living according to the flesh", to some degree.
If your assumption is correct, then all must die...a second death.
I thank God that is not the case, because God made a way for us to kill the flesh, in water baptism. (Rom 6:3-6)
The evidence of the truth of that crucifixion is written in the next verse..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

 

[Lanolin]

There's the kicker...it's not YOUR flesh anymore.
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Paul warned us to "mortify the deeds of the body", in Rom 8:13, and "mortify your members which are upon the earth", in Col 3:5.
In this context, it infers "keep them dead".
Keeping them dead...or allowing them to live, are in our power, thanks to the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Well it belongs to God now so its not actually 'mine' because Jesus is living in it.

You brothers are all just saying the same thing. If you do this everyday then there shouldnt be a problem and as time goes on you will have less and less flesh and more and more spirit and living by faith.

I dont need to beaten up and stoned like Paul was to learn what it is to suffer as had plenty of experience of suffering in my own life to know how sin can hurt people, but we all come from different backgrounds so why are people suddently all judging each other even the saints Peter and Paul when we havent been in their shoes? It seems to me people are saying things that are sins that are not, and ignoring sins that actually are.

Did Jesus ever reply back harshly to people digging on him, actually He did! Does that mean Jesus sinned. Well no. Remember Jesus Christ actually did come in the flesh so yea even he got tired, hungry etc. When people stuck a nail in him, it hurt! He experienced pain and betrayal. But the thing is Jesus rose above all that. He even forgave people who others thought were so bad they could not be forgiven.

Forgiveness means you dont bring up the old sin again. You let it go. Its dead and buried. Is Jesus still angry about the Jewish people that killed him. Well no Hes even working on them too.

P.s I am not replying to br bear not sure why he doesnt want me to reply I am responding to atpeace's post.
No I am not offended. If nobody wants to talk to me here I can handle it. I will just go somwhere else. Sob!

 

[At Peace]

Any time Scripture talks in detail many times in many different areas of God's Most Holy Written Word about any one thing - then we know it's vital and Directed To Every Born Again Spirit Filled Believer.
Scripture tells us The Flesh No Longer has power over us or we are not enslaved to the flesh any longer.
This is Because Christ has broken it's power over us. This means we now can through Christ overcome the flesh.......key is can and not automatically done.
Without Christ the Flesh can Not be controlled BUT With Christ we now can control, overcome or keep it under control.
That Is IF We Choose To.

We certainly agree on this.

The bigger issue is what believers truly consider the flesh. Far too many times what we think is Spiritual is simply just the flesh.

Thanks be to God for giving us the mind of Christ, to help us know exactly what we are to do in every situation.
If our decisions are based in love, we will never run afoul of..."All unrighteousness is sin:" (1 John 5:17)

 

[Lanolin]

What happens to all those folks who never complete that "putting to death the deeds of the body"?
It erroneously assumes that you will always be "living according to the flesh", to some degree.
If your assumption is correct, then all must die...a second death.
I thank God that is not the case, because God made a way for us to kill the flesh, in water baptism. (Rom 6:3-6)
The evidence of the truth of that crucifixion is written in the next verse..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

That is why I am asking of peoples experience of baptism...if they dont understand what happened were they truly baptised? Did they actually repent? Do they know what it means. Every believer rejoices the day they were baptised to start a new life in Christ, free from sin.

 

[At Peace]

Well it belongs to God now so its not actually 'mine' because Jesus is living in it.

You brothers are all just saying the same thing. If you do this everyday then there shouldnt be a problem and as time goes on you will have less and less flesh and more and more spirit and living by faith.

No, I am saying ALL the "flesh" is gone after you "turn from" sinning and are "immersed" into Christ, and into His death, burial, and are raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The effect of adherence to that scripture?
Found in the next verse, (7)..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

 

[Lanolin]

No, I am saying ALL the "flesh" is gone after you "turn from" sinning and are "immersed" into Christ, and into His death, burial, and are raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-6)
The effect of adherence to that scripture?
Found in the next verse, (7)..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

Oh ok well yes put to death.

I guess some are thinking of a 'slow death'. Actually I cant imagine that cos if it were true christians would be living zombies. Half dead.

The life I live on the flesh I live by faith in the son of God...this means while I have breath still left in my body it all belongs to Jesus. When we live by faith, we dont sin, cos sin and faith dont mix.

I guess some people want to follow Jesus but dont get baptised, and its true you can try and copy Jesus as a good man in the flesh but you wont be able to without sinning cos you in the flesh. you need the spirit. And to have the spirit living in you, the old flesh must be crucified.

That is why we have the cross. The thing is, Im not sure people fully understand the pain and suffering and blood loss Jesus went through to win the victory to be free from sin. Or maybe they could be saved, but not delievered. If you still in bondage to sin, then you havent been set free.

God could have just destroyed mankind again and only saved those who were righteous (he wouldnt have many to save if that was the case) but no He has given us time to repent and follow Jesus and redeem the time. Does he want His people to still sin while they are being redeemed. Well no. He wants us holy and set apart and gives us his spirit so we can be.

 

[At Peace]

That is why I am asking of peoples experience of baptism...if they dont understand what happened were they truly baptised? Did they actually repent? Do they know what it means. Every believer rejoices the day they were baptised to start a new life in Christ, free from sin.

Hi, L'
Good question, as many are baptized without knowledge of Romans 6.
Baptism and repentance are two different issues.
Turning from sin is exactly what it says...turn from sin.
Baptism both washes away the past sins, AND kills the old man;
Those who are baptized in ignorance of Rom 6 will be shown by God-pastor-deacon-brother and won't go very long without such crucial knowledge.
Neither is effective without the other.
.

Oh ok well yes put to death.

I guess some are thinking of a 'slow death'. Actually I cant imagine that cos if it were true christians would be living zombies. Half dead.

The life I live on the flesh I live by faith in the son of God...this means while I have breath still left in my body it all belongs to Jesus. When we live by faith, we dont sin, cos sin and faith dont mix.

Well put.
The "slow death" is the same as the "gradual sanctification" doctrine.
Forever trying to achieve on their own what God provides instantly.

I guess some people want to follow Jesus but dont get baptised, and its true you can try and copy Jesus as a good man in the flesh but you wont be able to without sinning cos you in the flesh. you need the spirit. And to have the spirit living in you, the old flesh must be crucified.

That is why we have the cross. The thing is, Im not sure people fully understand the pain and suffering and blood loss Jesus went through to win the victory to be free from sin. Or maybe they could be saved, but not delievered. If you still in bondage to sin, then you havent been set free.

God could have just destroyed mankind again and only saved those who were righteous (he wouldnt have many to save if that was the case) but no He has given us time to repent and follow Jesus and redeem the time. Does he want His people to still sin while they are being redeemed. Well no. He wants us holy and set apart and gives us his spirit so we can be.

Yeah, Jesus said that He wondered if He would even find faith on earth when He returns. (Luke 18:8)

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If you feel "judged" by the words I use, perhaps you should feel guilty.

No Sir I can honestly say I don't feel judged by your writings.
Nor do I feel guilty.

Any way be blessed and have a great year.
Blessings

 

[Br. Bear]

@Lanolin

Greetings,

P.s I am not replying to br bear not sure why he doesnt want me to reply I am responding to atpeace's post.
No I am not offended. If nobody wants to talk to me here I can handle it. I will just go somwhere else. Sob!

Thank you.

I specifically wanted other participants to consider the post I wrote and reply if they would. One day it might all make sense. In the meantime, post away and thanks for not being offended.


Bless you ....><>

 

[At Peace]

No Sir I can honestly say I don't feel judged by your writings.
Nor do I feel guilty.

If you don't "feel" guilty, why do you chaff at my words from scripture?

It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
Without guilt, there can be no repentance.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If you don't "feel" guilty, why do you chaff at my words from scripture?

It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
Without guilt, there can be no repentance.

I dont,
If you must know it's your attitude with always being correct and your digs on the brethren when they don't agree with you.
Also it's how you have a knack at changing what was said to you in your replies.

No I have no aught against you and have forgiven you.
I just at this time done replying with you.

Scripture says where there is strife and envy which is pride there is every kind of evil.
So I wish you the best brother I really do.
God Bless
W4F

 

[At Peace]

I dont,
If you must know it's your attitude with always being correct and your digs on the brethren when they don't agree with you.
Also it's how you have a knack at changing what was said to you in your replies.

No I have no aught against you and have forgiven you.
I just at this time done replying with you.

Scripture says where there is strife and envy which is pride there is every kind of evil.
So I wish you the best brother I really do.

If I didn't have the scriptures with which to prove my points, there would be no differences between you and I.
But I do.
Thanks be to God.
A permanent "turn from sin is available to all.
It is written..."Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities." (Acts 3:26)
We don't get that blessing without the turn from iniquity.

 

[Br. Bear]

what was Adam's excuse?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

what was Adam's excuse?

Hi Br.Bear,
Could you clarify this a little?
Not sure what you are referring to.
Thank You
Blessings