Perfection and Good Intentions
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Wired 4 Fishen
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Greetings Brother Bear,
I don't believe it's that people are telling anyone they don't walk in the spirit or dis encouraged them but rather that simply being born again does not Automatically make you perfected to the place you don't sin or get into the flesh or are spiritually above those who have to deal with things.
It is being told to many members that if they have to deal with the flesh then they did not get Born Again like they did and are not really saved.
That kind of talk is foolishness and opposes Scripture.
If I misunderstood you then please forgive me.
Blessings
@Wired 4 Fishen
For the LORD will not cast off His people, neither will He forsake His inheritance.
But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it.
Psalm 94:14-15
Greetings,
may I paint a couple of pictures in words?
I once was out with one of my children and we came across a tree that was somewhat windswept, being close to the coast. It leaned about 30 degrees in one direction, which was north.
In orde rto help teach a little something to my child I suggested that i stand on one side of the tree and my child the other. Then I asked which way the tree was leaning. My child answered correctly that it was leaning to the right. I then said, correctly, that it was leaning to the left. But guess what, were we both right or both wrong or perhaps if we could see it from above, we would have seen that it was indeed leaning north?
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
James 3:17-18
When living outside of city/modern life one sometimes needs to do things like make a fire. Without using the 'normal' means that we 'civilised' men use, like matches and fire starting balls impregnated with flamable substances, one needs to tke a little time doing something like rubbing some fine vegetation with a stick to get a small ember through friction which generates enough heats to ignite the 'starter' The smouldering ember needs to be put with some dry vegetation and then encouraged to throw a few sparks and further ignite the larger batchg of vegetation. This then has to be added to an even larger collection of kindling wood and grases and leaves etc to begin what should result in a fire. Slowly more 'firewood' must be aded until one has a genuine fire that can then be utilized for cooking, water sterilization or warming and drying ones-self in need be. (Of course there are other purposes for a fire like smoke signals and the like but you get the idea)
At no time should anyone extinguish the small fire but instead it should be 'fanned on', and thereby consume the wood and bring froth the whole purpose for it being started in the fisrt place.
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and His disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto Him, Behold, Thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But He said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; how he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
But I say unto you, That in this place is One greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Matthew 12:1-8
Behold My servant, whom I have chosen; My beloved, in whom My soul is well pleased: I will put My spirit upon Him, and He shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear His voice in the streets.
A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.
Matthew 12:18-21 (See also Isaiah 42)
Bless you ....><>
For the LORD will not cast off His people, neither will He forsake His inheritance.
But judgment shall return unto righteousness: and all the upright in heart shall follow it.
Psalm 94:14-15
Greetings,
may I paint a couple of pictures in words?
I once was out with one of my children and we came across a tree that was somewhat windswept, being close to the coast. It leaned about 30 degrees in one direction, which was north.
In orde rto help teach a little something to my child I suggested that i stand on one side of the tree and my child the other. Then I asked which way the tree was leaning. My child answered correctly that it was leaning to the right. I then said, correctly, that it was leaning to the left. But guess what, were we both right or both wrong or perhaps if we could see it from above, we would have seen that it was indeed leaning north?
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
James 3:17-18
When living outside of city/modern life one sometimes needs to do things like make a fire. Without using the 'normal' means that we 'civilised' men use, like matches and fire starting balls impregnated with flamable substances, one needs to tke a little time doing something like rubbing some fine vegetation with a stick to get a small ember through friction which generates enough heats to ignite the 'starter' The smouldering ember needs to be put with some dry vegetation and then encouraged to throw a few sparks and further ignite the larger batchg of vegetation. This then has to be added to an even larger collection of kindling wood and grases and leaves etc to begin what should result in a fire. Slowly more 'firewood' must be aded until one has a genuine fire that can then be utilized for cooking, water sterilization or warming and drying ones-self in need be. (Of course there are other purposes for a fire like smoke signals and the like but you get the idea)
At no time should anyone extinguish the small fire but instead it should be 'fanned on', and thereby consume the wood and bring froth the whole purpose for it being started in the fisrt place.
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and His disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto Him, Behold, Thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But He said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; how he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
But I say unto you, That in this place is One greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Matthew 12:1-8
Behold My servant, whom I have chosen; My beloved, in whom My soul is well pleased: I will put My spirit upon Him, and He shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear His voice in the streets.
A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
And in His name shall the Gentiles trust.
Matthew 12:18-21 (See also Isaiah 42)
Bless you ....><>
Lanolin
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Yea I dont get that.
Its like they deliberately putting stumbling stones in peoples way and going haha you sinned. When that person did no such thing.
Maybe their whole identity is caught up in sin that they dont know anything else? Or how to be free? If so they have a form of godliness but denying its power.
Maybe they just misunderstand scripture so they have to look up 14 different versions to make their own point. i I dont know.
Some people seem to believe the flesh just never gets crucified and the old man doesnt actually get buried. So maybe people arent being baptised in the spirit? Or they misunderstand their water baptism?
It could be people are doubleminded so want to walk in both flesh and spirit at the same time. Well, we have a Saviour we can appeal to if we not really sure. I mean He has reconciled sinners to God And scripture does say he removes our iniquities as far as east from west. So I dont really know why so many people on here keep going on about how they stil sin all the time!!!
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or, maybe they, whoever they may be, are trying to share in love what they understand.
There doesn't have to be ill motives or anything we (any of us) need to consider as an intention to hurt or harm.
We all need to remember grace and the best place to look for it and discover the depths of it is our own lives... then accordingly, freely give grace to all others and to live peaceably with all men.... the Lord is returning.... will He find faith [alive with with love] when He comes?
Let us consider our ways collectively and do all things in love .
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone... Why would any one who knows the forgiveness of God in Jesus Christ the Lord towards them, want to cast a stone?
Jesus is Lord and King,
Bless you ....><>
Lanolin
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A fault is not a sin, I think people get those mixed up. A weakness does not mean you sin. Sin is always deliberate disobeying God.
I do hope people are posting the truth in love here.
I really hate it when I read a post and it sounds sarcastic. Let your speech be gracious and always seasoned with salt so you know how to answer evey man.
Salvatian is such a precious gift! I was thinking sometimes, in my experience if you give what is holy to a dog they bite and rend you. Another is if you give a pearl to a pig they dont know what to do with it.
I had to learn that evangelism efforts dont always pay off with certain people. They dont want true holiness. Sinning is a way of life and they dont want to change it. Cosmetic religiousity yes but to be changed, well thats too scary for some people.
Maybe half true gospels are what appeal to others but a half truth gospel doesnt save! I know because many people tried a half true gospel with me before and it didnt do anything! It just made me frustrated! And I would keep sinning anyway!
To be saved and delivered well you know once that happens you have true peace.
Yes exactly, I was wondering if anybody here would back in the day, cast stones at Peter.
I do hope people are posting the truth in love here.
I really hate it when I read a post and it sounds sarcastic. Let your speech be gracious and always seasoned with salt so you know how to answer evey man.
Salvatian is such a precious gift! I was thinking sometimes, in my experience if you give what is holy to a dog they bite and rend you. Another is if you give a pearl to a pig they dont know what to do with it.
I had to learn that evangelism efforts dont always pay off with certain people. They dont want true holiness. Sinning is a way of life and they dont want to change it. Cosmetic religiousity yes but to be changed, well thats too scary for some people.
Maybe half true gospels are what appeal to others but a half truth gospel doesnt save! I know because many people tried a half true gospel with me before and it didnt do anything! It just made me frustrated! And I would keep sinning anyway!
To be saved and delivered well you know once that happens you have true peace.
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greetings Lanolin and everybody else....
breaker breaker... this is not the rubber ducky! 'Tis only me, Br. Bear, but I'd like to interrupt this broadcast and ask that you all slow down....
At the beginning of this video, I saw a sunrise or sunset and the thought came to mind that dusk and dawn, while being so splendidly beautiful, do not click on or off like a light switch but gently and slowly take us from one 'place' to another. Please watch and listen to this video. Slow Down by Chuck Girard
Bless you ....><>
breaker breaker... this is not the rubber ducky! 'Tis only me, Br. Bear, but I'd like to interrupt this broadcast and ask that you all slow down....
At the beginning of this video, I saw a sunrise or sunset and the thought came to mind that dusk and dawn, while being so splendidly beautiful, do not click on or off like a light switch but gently and slowly take us from one 'place' to another. Please watch and listen to this video. Slow Down by Chuck Girard
Bless you ....><>
Dave M
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Lanolin
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Hmm well looking at example of Peter and Paul.
Peter was a bit of a coward before he was converted. GOd had to change him to be bold and declare the gospel. He was tested a few times by Satan through the false brehren when that incident at antioch happened and Paul asked him why he was now avoiding the gentiles. THat spurred him on to support Paul in his outreach and rebuke the false brethren, we read in his letter the outcome of that! Very direct.
Lets look at Paul, what was he like, well we know he was very proud! pharisee, good reputation, always thought he was right. Never had to suffer a day in his life, Look at how God humbled him. He got stoned, jailed, beaten, shipwrecked, et etc. yet he counted these things all joy and learned to be content and also we read in his letters how gentle he was with the younger teachers Timothy and Titus and Philemon bringing them up in the faith.
If our flesh has been killed, we have no choice but to walk in the Spirit. (Gal 5:24-25)
And being reborn of Godly seed does make it possible to live without bearing evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)
With that mind-set, you can easily accuse Jesus of committing sin.
"Liar, hypocrites, children of the devil".
Sound familiar?
Those words were spoken righteously to those deserving it.
It is written..."Be ye angry, and sin not: " (Eph 4:26)
Jesus "feared" in the garden of Gethsemane, was that lack of faith? Or disobedience?
You were correct on one point...rebellion against God is disobedience.
Thanks be to God for making it possible to live without sin!.
If "we" know it, why do "we" post things like..."Having the Seed of God in us does not make us so that we don't sin"
Your POV is unscriptural.
It casts doubt on what is given to us by God. ie...crucify the flesh, and be reborn of God's seed.
Absolutely correct, thanks be to God.
A true, real, repentance from sin changes you into an ex-sinner.
Sorry to see you feel that way, as it basically says you will never "walk in the Spirit".
The standard I use is the word of God, and how my life now correlates with it, and by the Spirit of God given to me,as Peter promised, for a real "turn from" sin.
It is written..."All unrighteousness is sin." (1 John 5:17)
Don't do unrighteousness.
Do only righteousness.
How difficult is that, when God promises we won't be tempted above what we are able, and that He will provide an escape from it? (1 Cor 10:13)
Thanks be to God.
All things are possible with God.
Even adherence to a real "turn from" sin.
Wired 4 Fishen
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Greetings ,
There is something that you are not allowing for .
Yes the Seed of God can not do evil.
However even with the rebirth and seed of God planted in us, The FLESH is still alive and active in each one.
Through growing in Christ we can learn to walk in the Spirit and put down the flesh.
The flesh can try to rise up anytime and it is always our choice to keep it down or let it go.
Question for you
I ask this in Love and mean no offense by it.
Why do you feel the need to correct everyone and judge their life in Christ?
You make comments that some need to change their user name because you feel it is not fitting to them.
You make statements insinuating that others are not as saved as they are and so forth.
What characteristics of the Fruit of the Spirit are those?
Again I am not trying to start anything just wanting to know why you feel the need to do this?
Have a Wonderful Night
Blessings
W4F
B-A-C
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Besides that... the old flesh doesn't just die once... we have to kill it daily.
Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
1 Cor 15:31; I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Wired 4 Fishen
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You completely miss the point of rebirth.
That can only happen after the "old you" has been killed, and buried with Christ.
The new you, the one with the mind of Christ, is then raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.(Rom 6:4)
Through being reborn of God's seed we can make that happen, but without being reborn of God's seed it will never happen.
Everyone?
No, just the ones purporting a one-off doctrine.
As salvation won't be assured till after the final judgement, anyone's "salvation" is a moot point.
Those who think they are already saved need to rethink the concept of salvation and weather or not they have done all they can to assure it.
It is the same "fruit of the Spirit" that keeps me from allowing a 4 year old from using a chain saw.
The same fruit that causes me to take the keys from a drunk driver.
What you promote is not biblically correct.
You can tell by its fruit.
Isn't that why we are all here?
To gather and perhaps adopt different perspectives that will ensure a good final judgement?.
Wouldn't "improvement" be a useless concept to those who already (think) they have salvation?
Lanolin
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Hmm..arent we renewed though. Once you kill something doesnt it stay dead. Why would the old flesh keep rising up. I dont get it. When God gives us a new heart of flesh...he removes the old stony hardened heart.
Maybe you both misunderstanding each other, I mean I know am not in my glorified body yet and my flesh is weak, I still need to eat and sleep....but eating and sleeping isnt a sin.
Maybe you both misunderstanding each other, I mean I know am not in my glorified body yet and my flesh is weak, I still need to eat and sleep....but eating and sleeping isnt a sin.
Wired 4 Fishen
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Perhaps you are in to big of a hurry here.
Lost unsaved sinner repents and asked Jesus into their life.
God says yes and PLANTS Thee Seed in them, that is Himself.
This is called Being Born Again or as you said Rebirth.
They are a new creation in Christ Yes.
However their old nature is still there strong as ever.
It does not vanish simply because the flesh or old nature has been crucified with Christ.
This is something WE Must do over time by feeding the Spirit and starving the flesh.
By what right do you judge their doctrine?
That's not Fruit of the Spirit but rather common sense.
Of course unless you are thinking of Love but then Love does not insist on his way or push to be correct.
Scripture tells us we need to work out or walk out our own salvation.
Philippians 2:12
And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Or Reverence and Awe
Yes but that is through Fellowship One With Another
Not Jumping from thread to thread judging everyone and judging who is walking upright according to how you view things at this time.
You have to admit there is a HUGE Difference between the two don't you think?
All I am saying is none of us know it all or have things 100 percent correct.
Thus we should not act as if we do.
Anyway Brother @At Peace,
Thank you for the Fellowship and Praying the rest of your week will truly be filled with God's Love and Peace and Joy.
Blessings
W4F
Wired 4 Fishen
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A heart can become hardened any time if not protected and fed .
It's the same with the flesh or human nature. It can try to rise at anytime.
Example, some time back in another forum some rather rude people were digging on you, yes they were in the wrong and I agree and that's why they were banned including a staff member.
However a few times they pushed a little to hard and you replied back harshly. That was the Flesh rising up and had its way.
It has happened to all of us if we are honest. As we grow in Christ we can if we choose to learn to REFUSE to allow the flesh to get its way.
Yes your flesh was crucified with Christ and Yes it has lost its hold over you BUT this Takes Constant Work or watching over.
Now this happened over a year ago and I only brought it up as an example that you would understand.
I hope this helps you to understand what myself and others are saying.
As Always @Lanolin it's a Blessing talking with you .
Have a Beautiful Week.
Blessings
W4F
Lanolin
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Well sin... isn't it like weeds. They keep growing back if you not watching and protecting and feeding the soil. You can pull them out by the roots though - but the seed (or word) of God is not itself a weed. Your heart is the soil. The seed grows and will bear fruit if it's cared for.
But if the weeds are not kept in check it could choke the Word of God.
As for the soil, well for healthy plants the soil does need blood and bone and gypsum. Why blood? Well weeds usually grow in deficient, infertile soil. Blood and bone enriches the soil. And gypsum or lime softens the soil.
Greetings B-A-C,
May I suggest a quick look at those two verses you mentioned here and see that perhaps your use of them in this context for the reason you have used them is not really correct?
I am assured that you will understand if you do look a bit deeper, knowing you to be quite thorough in your studies.
For the sake of sound study; not for personal satisfaction, a spade is a spade, not a shovel; grace and peace
Bless you ....><>
