Question : he who restrains

[B-A-C]

2 Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2 Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2 Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2 Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2 Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2 Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2 Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

It seems that Paul is reminding them of something he discussed with them earlier.
That the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction will come. This is most likely the same person
who is called "the beast" in Revelation.

Verses 6 and 7 mention "the one who restrains him". I'm wondering who this is.

Some say the Holy Spirit.... but if it is the Holy Spirit, does that mean those who get saved during the tribulation won't have the Holy Spirit with them (if he is removed).

Some say it is Satan... he is holding this person back... until his "appointed time". (Satan's timing)

Yet others say it "he" who is restraining him is the church body... this makes the most sense to me,
but usually the church body is referred to as "she", "her" or the bride of Christ. These people usually
believe in a pre-trib rapture... the thinking here is... "the church is restraining him, until the church
is removed (i.e. the rapture)."

Any ideas on this are welcome.

 

[norapture]

OK if we see in verse one,
the coming of the Lord Jesus, and our gathering together unto him,

Then verse two, the day of
the Lord

Some might say these are not all on the sameday
Then verse three , I think we need to know what. ( IT)
means
(It) shall not come unless

If he is saying that our
gathering together unto the Lord Jesus won't come until the man if sin be revealed

It would be hard for the
church to leave before he is revealed
And if the church is here then the Holy Ghost must be here also .
So I would say what is the
((( IT )))) that shall not come

 

[RJ]

These people usually
believe in a pre-trib rapture... the thinking here is... "the church is restraining him, until the church
is removed (i.e. the rapture)."
Any ideas on this are welcome.

I am one of these. I pretty much left with the position that the Spirit indwelt Church will be removed before the Antichrist can be revealed.
I hope that comes soon but, I have always contended that your own personal 'Armageddon" will probably come first anyway...when you die...I pray you are ready!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Then verse three , I think we need to know what. ( IT)
means

Many of the translations identify "it" in v3 as "day".
I would have no problem with identifying it as such. The use of "it" just reflects something already spoken of, and would flow with the previous 1-2 verses. v1 "coming of our Lord" and v2 "day of Christ"

We really should keep in mind that verses numbers were not part of the original writings, but added later to allow for easier reference. Try reading it as follows without the numbering. I added v4 so it would run to the end of the sentence without a break in thought.

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

If you read it as such it seems clearer that "it" being spoken of is the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and also named the day of the Lord.

Hope this helps brother.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[norapture]

Many of the translations identify "it" in v3 as "day".
I would have no problem with identifying it as such. The use of "it" just reflects something already spoken of, and would flow with the previous 1-2 verses. v1 "coming of our Lord" and v2 "day of Christ"

We really should keep in mind that verses numbers were not part of the original writings, but added later to allow for easier reference. Try reading it as follows without the numbering. I added v4 so it would run to the end of the sentence without a break in thought.

Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

If you read it as such it seems clearer that "it" being spoken of is the return of our Lord Jesus Christ and also named the day of the Lord.

Hope this helps brother.
YBIC
C4E
<><

 

[norapture]

True true the man of sin will have to be revealed ,
before that day ( gathering unto the Lord )
Comes

 

[norapture]

So if the man of sin is revealed , before that day
( coming of the Lord, our gathering unto him, the day of Christ ) then I would say
the Church , Saints , the body of Christ , could not be the ( he ) that's taken out the
way
Cause it is written ( that day) will not come till the man of
sin is revealed , and sets in the temple confessing he is god

 

[B-A-C]

Today is Feb 7th 2016.
We have a phenomenon here in the US called the Super bowl. "It" hasn't happened yet. But a lot of things about "it" have already been revealed. The two teams that playing have already been revealed. The stadium the game is going to played at has already been revealed. The two starting quarterback'so have already been revealed. It could be possible that some people will die (and maybe go to heaven) before the Super Bowl is played. However if you're a Broncos fan. The team of perdition (Panthers) has already been revealed.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@bac
:laugh:

You made me think of this one dear brother.

Super Bowl | Talk Jesus Forums

 

[Grace]

I believe that it refers to the body of Christ. As the body of Christ wouldn't it be "He"?

 

[norapture]

I believe that it refers to the body of Christ. As the body of Christ wouldn't it be "He"?

If I may ask , wouldn't you say in v1 , our gathering together unto him.
Wouldn't that be the body of Christ, that's
gathered to him

If so Paul says,,, that day we our gathered unto the Lord will not come
Until there is a falling away and the son of prediction is revealed

Paul even says let no man deceive you,,,, for that day shall not come
until he ( man if sin ) is
revealed

How can so many believe the church ( body of Christ ) will be removed,, when Paul says it can't happen till the man of sin is revealed

 

[B-A-C]

How can so many believe the church ( body of Christ ) will be removed,, when Paul says it can't happen till the man of sin is revealed

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything here, but I really don't understand the logic of that question?

Hypothetical timeline.
On Monday the man of sin is revealed. Everyone knows his name and his intentions.
On Tuesday the church is raptured.
On Wednesday the man of sin starts exalting himself in the temple and taking over the world.

I don't understand what is hard about this.

 

[Ophel]

The powerful Holy Spirit indwelling the Body of Christ on the earth is the Restrainer. Once we are taken out of the way, there will be nothing to stop the Antichrist. If we were still here, we would oppose him and defeat him.

As long as the Church and Holy Spirit are in the world, the Antichrist will always remain hiding (whether consciously or unconsciously), powerless to deceive the whole world.

 

[norapture]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything here, but I really don't understand the logic of that question?

Hypothetical timeline.
On Monday the man of sin is revealed. Everyone knows his name and his intentions.
On Tuesday the church is raptured.
On Wednesday the man of sin starts exalting himself in the temple and taking over the world.

I don't understand what is hard about this.[/
QUOTE]



So you agree the man of sin is revealed before the rapture
So the he ( restrainter )
Is taken out of the way before he is revealed

Therefore the restrainer
and the church could not be the same ( he )

Cause the man of sin must be revealed before the church is caught up
( our gathering unto him)

The restrainer ( he ) is taken out of the way , before he is revealed
Then it impossible for the two to be the same

 

[B-A-C]

So the he ( restrainter )
Is taken out of the way before he is revealed

Where are you getting this from?

 

[Grace]

If I may ask , wouldn't you say in v1 , our gathering together unto him.
Wouldn't that be the body of Christ, that's
gathered to him

If so Paul says,,, that day we our gathered unto the Lord will not come
Until there is a falling away and the son of prediction is revealed

Paul even says let no man deceive you,,,, for that day shall not come
until he ( man if sin ) is
revealed

How can so many believe the church ( body of Christ ) will be removed,, when Paul says it can't happen till the man of sin is revealed

This was a little confusing...
I see it more like B-A-C sees it.

 

[norapture]

Where are you getting this from?

Paul says , he who retrains the man of sin
will be taken out of the way , then that wicked one will be revealed

Paul says that the day of our gathering unto him
won't come until he ( the wicked one ) is revealed

 

[Ophel]

Paul says , he who retrains the man of sin
will be taken out of the way , then that wicked one will be revealed

Paul says that the day of our gathering unto him
won't come until he ( the wicked one ) is revealed

That scripture is talking about the second coming of Christ---after the Tribulation, when He comes with His saints. Paul is teaching those who have heard all sorts of stories that Jesus has already returned that He has not, and not to believe such silly stories.Jesus isn't going to bodily return until after the Tribulation. When the Church is caught away, the Holy Spirit residing in her will also be removed. That will enable the evil power behind the Antichrist to push him to the forefront of the world stage.

 

[norapture]

That scripture is talking about the second coming of Christ---after the Tribulation, when He comes with His saints. Paul is teaching those who have heard all sorts of stories that Jesus has already returned that He has not, and not to believe such silly stories.Jesus isn't going to bodily return until after the Tribulation. When the Church is caught away, the Holy Spirit residing in her will also be removed. That will enable the evil power behind the Antichrist to push him to the forefront of the world stage.

So in v1 where Paul says and our gathering unto him.
You are saying this gathering unto him is not the rapture.
If not what is this gathering unto him , if its not the rapture of the church?

 

[Ophel]

So in v1 where Paul says and our gathering unto him.
You are saying this gathering unto him is not the rapture.
If not what is this gathering unto him , if its not the rapture of the church?

When Jesus comes with His Church, He will be gathering to Himself those who are here---Israel, who will have received Him as their Messiah during that terrible time of Tribulation.