Is Love the Greatest?

[Spockrates]

You asked if God was literal light or symbolic. I said that God is literal light. When the voice spoke to Paul at his conversion, there was literal light accompanying it, not a symbolic light. God dwells in literal light, not symbolic light (). Within this light is the form of a man who is God. The man is not only with the light, but is the light. The light is shining out of his being. Proof that Jesus is the very same God, is also because in , light shone out of his face and his being - 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.

Now for your next question, no, the Spirit of God, is not made of anything, because the Spirit of God was never made - He is the eternal, everlasting, Creator, Spirit of God. However everything that can be seen and studied, particles and waves, is made by Him. He can make something, appear out of nothing, including visible light. But this visible light, is from an invisible light source. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks, James for trying to explain. And please forgive me for being confused, but I thought much of what describes eternity is symbolic, since it is beyond our current comprehension. Still I could be self-deceived. If I am, I pray God will use you to open my eyes!

There is something you said that I don't quite understand. You said that when John wrote this,

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. (*1 John‬ *1‬:*5)

he DID mean God is literally the light we might see with our own eyes. But then you said that when John wrote this,

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. (*1 John‬ *4‬:*8‬ NIV)

he did NOT mean God is literally the love we feel with our emotions and give to others through our words and actions.

So please tell me: Why do you believe John was speaking only literally in the former case and only symbolically in the latter case?

 

[Spockrates]

Science?? hehe And science is made of of scientists,right? defined as. A person seen by other scientists to be the best in there field of research. So if 100 people say something is a certain way,by there own logic and reason,then they are correct? hehe They think so!! How could I ever describe someone i have never seen? How could a person talk about Vietnam, if they were never in battle there? But people do don't they bro? Even write stupid books, looking to prove there therory's. lol Others clap for them,thinking they are all that and a bag of chips,when in reality,something a scientist says they are in,proves how much out of reality they really are!

Since 1953 there has been no cure of anything other then polio!!! NONE! So how wise are they? For wisdom always helps others,not just the person speaking! Wisdom finds, what Love seeks! If any man points to himself for any reason as having wisdom,( proverbs 27:1-2!) Then he is a man with bad fruit. I know,can be defined in so many ways!( 1 cor 13:12) Since this is so,then how can any man ever say he fully knows except by Holy Spirit?? When others hear Jesus in you they know it! because there own life changes!! For everyone can sure be different in there change! So if I say because you do not believe this part of the Word of God as I do, you are wrong? hehe ( rom 2:1-4) Please do not mix mans ways with the Lord to me bro,i have seen the result from man already!! LOL Blessing bro

I like what you said: "Wisdom finds what love seeks." I suppose then we might say that for the genuine Christian, God's wisdom in him finds what God's love in him seeks to accomplish.

But you still have not told me, so please bear with me as I ask once again: What is better, nobler and greater? To seek to love but never find the way (love with no wisdom)? Or to know without a doubt the way, but to never do it (wisdom with no love)?

Don't be afraid to answer plainly. As Socrates said, "We have nothing to lose but our ignorance!"

 

[Brighthouse]

LOL Spockrates!!!!! The needs of the many, out weigh the need of the few,or the one. lol You remind me of that. I have no fear bro,but at the same time i must also understand this! The path each of has taken to receive,and then to believe in, is different for us all,i cannot say that any path taken has been wrong for any of us,but I will say that from every path taken should lead us all to the narrow road,we should all find ourselves upon now.

How we train our soul( our mind) which leads to our heart which our flesh follows after in both words and deeds. after it.( 1 john 3:19-24) Hence why we always need to train our mind in the word,so that none falls into guilt and conviction any longer. For Holy Spirit does not convict the believer,many use this scripture ( rom 3:23-24) as an answer to the conviction of Holy Spirit,but they fail to look at the verse just before this one!! verse 22! For those who believe in our Jesus and hold fast to his words know this!( col 1:13-14) I do not argue with any upon this revelation,I only encourage you all to consider Jesus words over man's opinion of the Word.

I said that all to you brother Spockrates to say this, so you understand a bit of my mindset. You, and all of us were born through love not wisdom lol, Since this is true,how did wisdom gain over what was first created? hehe I like a lot what you said better then me!!!

God's wisdom in him finds what God's love in him seeks to accomplish!!!!excellent brother!!For who can be found, if someone did not love you enough to look for you in the first place?? hehe That is as plain and I hope as simple as i myself already am.hehe I do not like complications in word or deed,so i hope this has blessed you to understand my thoughts upon this bro. Thanks!

 

[Spockrates]

LOL Spockrates!!!!! The needs of the many, out weigh the need of the few,or the one. lol You remind me of that. I have no fear bro,but at the same time i must also understand this! The path each of has taken to receive,and then to believe in, is different for us all,i cannot say that any path taken has been wrong for any of us,but I will say that from every path taken should lead us all to the narrow road,we should all find ourselves upon now.

How we train our soul( our mind) which leads to our heart which our flesh follows after in both words and deeds. after it.( 1 john 3:19-24) Hence why we always need to train our mind in the word,so that none falls into guilt and conviction any longer. For Holy Spirit does not convict the believer,many use this scripture ( rom 3:23-24) as an answer to the conviction of Holy Spirit,but they fail to look at the verse just before this one!! verse 22! For those who believe in our Jesus and hold fast to his words know this!( col 1:13-14) I do not argue with any upon this revelation,I only encourage you all to consider Jesus words over man's opinion of the Word.

I said that all to you brother Spockrates to say this, so you understand a bit of my mindset. You, and all of us were born through love not wisdom lol, Since this is true,how did wisdom gain over what was first created? hehe I like a lot what you said better then me!!!

How do you know love was created first? Listen to what Wisdom says about herself and tell me if she speaks foolishly:

“The Lord brought me [Wisdom] forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before he made the world or its fields or any of the dust of the earth. I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was constantly at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind."

(*Proverbs‬ *8‬:*22-31‬)

So we see Wisdom says she--NOT Love--was God's first creation.

God's wisdom in him finds what God's love in him seeks to accomplish!!!!excellent brother!!For who can be found, if someone did not love you enough to look for you in the first place?? hehe That is as plain and I hope as simple as i myself already am.hehe I do not like complications in word or deed,so i hope this has blessed you to understand my thoughts upon this bro. Thanks!

And thank you, my friend for helping me think this through. I think it is a good premise to say the greater virtue is the one that comes first and the lesser virtue is the one that comes after. But I'm thinking that since Wisdom was the very first thing God created--or perhaps the first in importance of his creations--then the only way Love could come before Wisdom--or be of greater importance --would be if she was never created at all, but always was. Do you think Love is uncreated and eternal? Is she the mother of Wisdom? If not, and she is but the created sister of Wisdom, then how could she possibly be greater than Wisdom?

 

[RJ]

RJ:

Thank you for you frank reply. I can see how you would interpret the Bible to say God is literally light, rather than saying God is like light. Afterall, John also writes:

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” (*John‬ *8‬:*12‬)

Since Jesus said it, it must be true. And there is something else Jesus also said:

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit. Apart from me you can do nothing." (*John‬ *15‬:*5‬)

Here we can say the same. Can't we? Jesus said it, so it must be literally true. He is not a human being. He is a walking, talking plant! Don't you agree? But if you don't agree, then why not?

• I can see how you would interpret the Bible to say God is literally light, rather than saying God is like light. Yes, from scripture: Revelation 22:5 "There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever"....... But, there is a knowledge that God gives to you personally....do you have that knowledge?
• Hmmm? ...."walking talking plant"....this absurd,,, your philosophical questions are not worthy of an answer.... Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
• I'm done with this thread!
  

 

[Spockrates]

This is test.

 

[Spockrates]

I can see how you would interpret the Bible to say God is literally light, rather than saying God is like light. Yes, from scripture: "There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever".......

Revelation also describes Christ as being a sheep. Does that mean he is not human? It makes me wonder just what in Revelation should be taken literally and what should be considered a representation of the reality of heaven.

But, there is a knowledge that God gives to you personally....do you have that knowledge?

It is my most frequent request in prayer, for I take James literally:

If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

(*James‬ *1‬:*5‬)

Hmmm? ...."walking talking plant"....this absurd,,,

Yes, indeed it is absurd, if we take him literally! So I wonder why it is not absurd to take Jesus literally when he says, "I am the light of the world" (John 9:5).

your philosophical questions are not worthy of an answer....

Why is it not worthy?

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
I'm done with this thread!

What philosophy has taken me captive? Please tell me that the truth might set me free!

But even if you don't tell me, I really do appreciate the answers you so patiently gave me, RJ. If you change your mind, please let me know. Blessings to you, my friend.

 

[Spockrates]

This is another test. (Had some trouble getting posting.)

 

[james1523]

Thanks, James for trying to explain. And please forgive me for being confused, but I thought much of what describes eternity is symbolic, since it is beyond our current comprehension. Still I could be self-deceived. If I am, I pray God will use you to open my eyes!

There is something you said that I don't quite understand. You said that when John wrote this,

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. (*1 John‬ *1‬:*5)

he DID mean God is literally the light we might see with our own eyes. But then you said that when John wrote this,

Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. (*1 John‬ *4‬:*8‬ NIV)

he did NOT mean God is literally the love we feel with our emotions and give to others through our words and actions.

So please tell me: Why do you believe John was speaking only literally in the former case and only symbolically in the latter case?

Events like the transfiguration of Christ in Matt 17 are not symbolic because they are witnessed accounts of things that they saw. Actually I believe it is all literal, I disagree that it is only symbolic in the latter case.. God is love and God is light are both predicative statements, not symbolic statements. And no, 1 John 1:5 is not just about the light we see with our own eyes, but more about the literal light that we cannot see. I think the mistake you are making in your interpretation, is that you assume that literal things must be visible things.

 

[Ezra Allen]

If we say that love is an attribute of God, our understanding of the nature of God is only as accurate as our understanding of the love we are attributing to Him. This attribute of God is so important that if we don’t get it right we fail to have a sound understanding of God.

We could also say that of God’s other attributes, His omniscience, His immutability, His infinity, His holiness, and so on. These attributes are just as important to understand if we are to begin to have an understanding of the nature of God.

Before talking about God’s attributes we must make a note of the differences between God’s communicable attributes (which can be transferred to His creature man like love, and wisdom) and His incommunicable attributes which are his alone (aseity, and omnipotence)

As we examine God’s attributes note that God is a simple being, meaning that God is not made up of parts like legs and arms and such. God is His attributes. God’s simplicity means that His attributes define one another. We say that God is holy, just, immutable, and omnipotent. So His omnipotence is a holy omnipotence, a just omnipotence and an immutable omnipotence. All the traits we identify in God also define his omnipotence.

Dismiss not lightly the words “God is Love” as written by John. God in His divine character and being is so very loving that we can say, He IS love. Maybe John is saying that God is the source of all true love. This view is very much like how we understand John 14:6 “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. “

When we consider love as an attribute of God, realize that it is defined in relation to all the other attributes of God. When we speak of attributes of God, we speak of properties that cannot be divided from one another.

By remembering that God is a simple being and that He is His attributes, we can resist the habit of comparing one of God’s attributes against another. We cannot accept only the attributes of God we find delightful and pass on those that make us fearful. This is done by tons of people every day. It is the basis of idolatry. We first deconstruct God then we rebuild Him into an image more appealing to us.

To avoid making an idol out of God it is important that we not only listen to what scripture says about God’s attributes, but also seek out each of those attributes in biblical terms. The most difficult to understand is the love of God. To understand His love, study intimately how God Himself defines love.

We tend to think of love more as a noun than a verb where as in the bible love is used as a verb more than a noun. We think of love as a feeling more often than an action.

To continue discussing this topic anymore in depth we then we should also talk about the hatred of God. “For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness; with you, evil people are not welcome. The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong; you destroy those who tell lies. The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, LORD, detest. “ (Psalms 5:4-6 NIV)

 

[Brighthouse]

Since God is eternal,his nature of love is as well bro to me. Do you really realize what this means bro?? That there never was a time when God was not,and there never was a time ,he did not have perfect love! I get your fine point bro,wisdom is always having love, and love is always having wisdom.( provers 8:11) It is wise to always love,and love has the understanding in how to be perfect in the wisdom of its own fruit. How is that?? LOL Close maybe?? Both are so needed! i can only speak for me brother,I never had the wisdom of the Lord until I received him,( 1 cor 1:30-31)And i never understood love until he taught me how love is always to act. ( 1cor 13:4-8) Blessing bro and all

 

[Spockrates]

Events like the transfiguration of Christ in are not symbolic because they are witnessed accounts of things that they saw. Actually I believe it is all literal, I disagree that it is only symbolic in the latter case.. God is love and God is light are both predicative statements, not symbolic statements. And no, is not just about the light we see with our own eyes, but more about the literal light that we cannot see. I think the mistake you are making in your interpretation, is that you assume that literal things must be visible things.

You make excellent and logical points, James. Thank you for pointing out the Transfiguration. I had forgotten the event, and I do believe it to be actual rather than metaphorical, as the context if the passage demonstrates this. I also concur there might be a light that is unseen, which perhaps was made visible on that mountain. Have you visited the place? I did with friends when I was younger. The view from there if the valley below is quite impressive.

But getting back to our topic. I wonder if light is used of Christ in both a literal sense (describing the invisible light the Son of God is) and metaphorical sense (describing the truth of which the Son of God is the source). For Jesus also says of himself:

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

(*John‬ *14‬:*6‬)

In comparison with this passage of scripture, light might represent truth. So what do you think? Is it possible Christ is light in both a predictive and representative sense?

 

[Spockrates]

If we say that love is an attribute of God, our understanding of the nature of God is only as accurate as our understanding of the love we are attributing to Him. This attribute of God is so important that if we don’t get it right we fail to have a sound understanding of God.

We could also say that of God’s other attributes, His omniscience, His immutability, His infinity, His holiness, and so on. These attributes are just as important to understand if we are to begin to have an understanding of the nature of God.

Before talking about God’s attributes we must make a note of the differences between God’s communicable attributes (which can be transferred to His creature man like love, and wisdom) and His incommunicable attributes which are his alone (aseity, and omnipotence)

Thank you so much for your knowledgable post. And sorry for my taking so long to reply. I hope you intend to stay awhile with us and think this through.

You mention God's communicable attributes, which you describe as those transferable to us. This I find fascinating--that I might love as perfectly as God loves and comprehend as perfectly as God comprehends. But then, this does not appear to be anywhere near what I experience, nor what I've witnessed in others, nor even what I've heard from those of whom others bear witness. No one is perfect seems to be the reality. So I think I must be misunderstanding you. Please explain.

As we examine God’s attributes note that God is a simple being, meaning that God is not made up of parts like legs and arms and such. God is His attributes. God’s simplicity means that His attributes define one another. We say that God is holy, just, immutable, and omnipotent. So His omnipotence is a holy omnipotence, a just omnipotence and an immutable omnipotence. All the traits we identify in God also define his omnipotence.

Dismiss not lightly the words “God is Love” as written by John. God in His divine character and being is so very loving that we can say, He IS love. Maybe John is saying that God is the source of all true love. This view is very much like how we understand “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. “

When we consider love as an attribute of God, realize that it is defined in relation to all the other attributes of God. When we speak of attributes of God, we speak of properties that cannot be divided from one another.

By remembering that God is a simple being and that He is His attributes, we can resist the habit of comparing one of God’s attributes against another. We cannot accept only the attributes of God we find delightful and pass on those that make us fearful. This is done by tons of people every day. It is the basis of idolatry. We first deconstruct God then we rebuild Him into an image more appealing to us.

To avoid making an idol out of God it is important that we not only listen to what scripture says about God’s attributes, but also seek out each of those attributes in biblical terms. The most difficult to understand is the love of God. To understand His love, study intimately how God Himself defines love.

We tend to think of love more as a noun than a verb where as in the bible love is used as a verb more than a noun. We think of love as a feeling more often than an action.

To continue discussing this topic anymore in depth we then we should also talk about the hatred of God. “For you are not a God who is pleased with wickedness; with you, evil people are not welcome. The arrogant cannot stand in your presence. You hate all who do wrong; you destroy those who tell lies. The bloodthirsty and deceitful you, LORD, detest. “ ( NIV)

Yes. Well, it seems to me that there is a kind of conflict between love and wisdom. In my limited and imperfect understanding of the virtues I experience in myself, wisdom sometimes seeks a different course of action than love. Love seeks to forgive completely--treating the one who has wronged the loving one as though she had never wronged him. Yet if she refuses to repent and fully intends to keep wronging him, how can it be wise to treat her as if she is not doing any wrong? Jesus' words come to mind:

"So watch yourselves. If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them."

(*Luke‬ *17‬:*3‬)

Love desires to always forgive, but wisdom sometimes wisely restrains her. It is not wise to fully forgive the rebelliously unrepentant. Don't you agree?

 

[james1523]

You make excellent and logical points, James. Thank you for pointing out the Transfiguration. I had forgotten the event, and I do believe it to be actual rather than metaphorical, as the context if the passage demonstrates this. I also concur there might be a light that is unseen, which perhaps was made visible on that mountain. Have you visited the place? I did with friends when I was younger. The view from there if the valley below is quite impressive.

But getting back to our topic. I wonder if light is used of Christ in both a literal sense (describing the invisible light the Son of God is) and metaphorical sense (describing the truth of which the Son of God is the source). For Jesus also says of himself:

“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

(*John‬ *14‬:*6‬)

In comparison with this passage of scripture, light might represent truth. So what do you think? Is it possible Christ is light in both a predictive and representative sense?

I haven't visited there yet . I don't think light is used in the literal sense at all, sorry. For me, light does not represent truth, light results in truth. A symbolic light cannot result in a literal truth.

I will use an analogy of a literal light resulting in a literal truth, to make this clearer.
Suppose you are in a dark room, you don't know if there is anything in there.
So you have a torch and you turn it on.
The torch light enables you to see that there is a thing in the room.
Now you know the truth that there is something in the room.
The literal light resulted in you knowing the truth.
This is how it works with God.
When God's light shines on us, we automatically gain the truth of who He is (as God), and who we are (as sinners).
For most of us, this light is invisible and unseen. But for the apostle Paul's conversion, this light was visible and shone from heaven. This light converted Paul instantly from a Christian-persecuting Jew, to a follower of Christ. The light was also accompanied by a voice. God's Word and His light go hand in hand. Just as in Creation God spoke the word "let there be light" and there was light.
The light is what we see...
The word is what we hear..
Both the light and the word result in knowledge..
which results in truth....
with understanding of the truth... brings wisdom.

The truth also results in faith - when we know the truth that God is real, automatically we have faith.

Besides Paul's conversion, I can give another example from the Bible of how light results in knowledge of the truth which results in faith.
This example is Moses's conversion:
Exodus 3 - Moses saw a burning bush (the light)... then God called to him from the bush (God's Word)... then Moses believed in God.

The light and the Word came to Moses to enable Him to have faith in God.


Light is also for fellowship -1 John 1:5-7, fellowship with God and fellowship with others. If we want a successful church, or even a marriage, then we need to walk in God's light (1 John 1:7). What is the result of fellowship? Fellowship results in brotherly love. So we can see that light can also result in love.
As shown by Moses' case.. the purpose of the light is also for attraction. The burning bush attracted and captivated Moses and drew him to God. This was a kind of fellowship, and Moses had more fellowship with God on the mountain when the 10 commandments were written. What happened to Moses after fellowship with God? - Exo 34:35, Moses's face was shining with light.

 

[Spockrates]

I haven't visited there yet . I don't think light is used in the literal sense at all, sorry. For me, light does not represent truth, light results in truth. A symbolic light cannot result in a literal truth.

I will use an analogy of a literal light resulting in a literal truth, to make this clearer.
Suppose you are in a dark room, you don't know if there is anything in there.
So you have a torch and you turn it on.
The torch light enables you to see that there is a thing in the room.
Now you know the truth that there is something in the room.
The literal light resulted in you knowing the truth.
This is how it works with God.
When God's light shines on us, we automatically gain the truth of who He is (as God), and who we are (as sinners).
For most of us, this light is invisible and unseen. But for the apostle Paul's conversion, this light was visible and shone from heaven. This light converted Paul instantly from a Christian-persecuting Jew, to a follower of Christ. The light was also accompanied by a voice. God's Word and His light go hand in hand. Just as in Creation God spoke the word "let there be light" and there was light.
The light is what we see...
The word is what we hear..
Both the light and the word result in knowledge..
which results in truth....
with understanding of the truth... brings wisdom.

The truth also results in faith - when we know the truth that God is real, automatically we have faith.

Besides Paul's conversion, I can give another example from the Bible of how light results in knowledge of the truth which results in faith.
This example is Moses's conversion:
Exodus 3 - Moses saw a burning bush (the light)... then God called to him from the bush (God's Word)... then Moses believed in God.

The light and the Word came to Moses to enable Him to have faith in God.

Light is also for fellowship -, fellowship with God and fellowship with others. If we want a successful church, or even a marriage, then we need to walk in God's light (). What is the result of fellowship? Fellowship results in brotherly love. So we can see that light can also result in love.
As shown by Moses' case.. the purpose of the light is also for attraction. The burning bush attracted and captivated Moses and drew him to God. This was a kind of fellowship, and Moses had more fellowship with God on the mountain when the 10 commandments were written. What happened to Moses after fellowship with God? - , Moses's face was shining with light.

Thanks James. So is this literal light seen only with one's literal eyes? Or is it seen by some other some other method?

 

[james1523]

Thanks James. So is this literal light seen only with one's literal eyes? Or is it seen by some other some other method?

Except for rare examples such as Paul's conversion etc, it is an invisible light. So when we talk about "seeing" the light, we are speaking metaphorically.

 

[Spockrates]

Yes, I think I see. Please forgive my question asked so ignorantly! I really do value and appreciate your opinion. For I see you are intelligent, as well as knowledgable and wise about the topic.

So I suppose seeing is a metaphor for comprehending, or in some cases apprehending. Do your eyes see the same? And metaphorical sight requires metaphorical eyes, perhaps. As the man born blind said after he encountered Jesus:

“...One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”

(John‬ *9‬:*25‬)

And I see that even if he remained blind in his eyes, he might still see the invisible by some other means. So what do these eyes symbolize? What are the actual eyes by which we actually see what God invisibly illuminates? Please tell me.

 

[Spockrates]

Since God is eternal,his nature of love is as well bro to me. Do you really realize what this means bro?? That there never was a time when God was not,and there never was a time ,he did not have perfect love! I get your fine point bro,wisdom is always having love, and love is always having wisdom.( provers 8:11) It is wise to always love,and love has the understanding in how to be perfect in the wisdom of its own fruit. How is that?? LOL Close maybe?? Both are so needed! i can only speak for me brother,I never had the wisdom of the Lord until I received him,( 1 cor 1:30-31)And i never understood love until he taught me how love is always to act. ( 1cor 13:4-8) Blessing bro and all

Brighthouse, I like the passage you quoted:

Choose my instruction instead of silver, knowledge rather than choice gold, for wisdom is more precious than rubies, and nothing you desire can compare with her.

(Proverbs‬ *8‬:*10-11)

Ain't that the truth? It must be! For how can Wisdom ever speak unwisely?

And do you see what Wisdom says of herself, here, my friend? She says NOTHING you or I desire compares with her. Do you suppose she means that of all things seen and unseen, known and unknown, understood and misunderstood, there is not one of them more desirable than her? What do you think Wisdom is saying to us in this passage?

 

[Spockrates]

I'm done with this thread!

RJ:

My invitation still stands. If you are willing to forgive, I'd be glad to continue our dialog, or discuss something else. Perhaps we may talk about the Socratic method I amateurishly employ? If it is a foolish way for me to learn, you may explain why. I promise to have ears to hear.

 

[james1523]

Yes, I think I see. Please forgive my question asked so ignorantly! I really do value and appreciate your opinion. For I see you are intelligent, as well as knowledgable and wise about the topic.

So I suppose seeing is a metaphor for comprehending, or in some cases apprehending. Do your eyes see the same? And metaphorical sight requires metaphorical eyes, perhaps. As the man born blind said after he encountered Jesus:

“...One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!”

(John‬ *9‬:*25‬)

And I see that even if he remained blind in his eyes, he might still see the invisible by some other means. So what do these eyes symbolize? What are the actual eyes by which we actually see what God invisibly illuminates?

The eyes are the ability of our heart to comprehend spiritual things (Eph 1:18, Acts 26:18, Luke 4:18). The heart is the soul and the spirit which is made up of the mind, emotions, will, and conscience (1 Peter 3:4).