Should Women Be Pastors and Elders?

[rodd]

Would she be allowed to 'speak' in a church? The scriptures tell us, that the woman should be silent in the church. This is what I was getting at, in my previous posting.

"Silent", as in getting up and laying down the spiritual mandates to the full congregation,........as in 'spiritual authority' to preach scripture, ........not spiritual authority par sa, what that text is saying is, spiritual authority to preach.
No man has spiritual authority over the other in a literal sense, the reverse is Roman Catholicism,
1Tim 2:12 should put an end to all argument on this subject, the man is the head and that's the nature and order that God has ordained, of course Satan will try and justify reasons why this should be inverted.
If you think about it, it's the philosophy of the world, that's precisely the worlds view.

 

[james1523]

Would she be allowed to 'speak' in a church? The scriptures tell us, that the woman should be silent in the church. This is what I was getting at, in my previous posting.

It's OK to pray or prophesy in the church with her head covered as a sign of submission because of the angels (both to show God's order is followed and so as not to incite the angels to desire the woman's beauty)

 

[spirit1st]

The long hair or covering had nothing to do with the angels of the LORd wanting women 1 But was to reveal they were submitted to man ! As the angels are to God ! I do not believe angels have the parts to have sex ! No reason for them to have those things !

I tend to think they did in the old testament ? But if it truth ? they must have processed a man and lived though HIm ? But really i not sure about that ! But some angels are suffering now For some Sins they did ?

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

 

[james1523]

The long hair or covering had nothing to do with the angels of the LORd wanting women 1 But was to reveal they were submitted to man ! As the angels are to God ! I do not believe angels have the parts to have sex ! No reason for them to have those things !

I tend to think they did in the old testament ? But if it truth ? they must have processed a man and lived though HIm ? But really i not sure about that ! But some angels are suffering now For some Sins they did ?

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Sorry I should have said incite the fallen angels to lust.. any fallen angels that may be observing...(as well as any fallen men too.. lol ) with reference to the times when the fallen angels mated with humans to produce the race of giants. I guess many of those fallen angels are still wandering around, princes and principalities of the air.

The belief about the fallen angels mating with humans is an old belief. It is from the book of Enoch, an ancient Jewish apocrypha. This book is actually quoted in Jude 1:14-15. The book details how the fallen angels had relationships with daughters of men and their offspring was the race of giants (of which Goliath was descended). It also reveals how the fallen angels taught mankind science, technology and philosophy etc.

 

[B-A-C]

I'm not real sure how women pastors turned into angels and giants, but....

with reference to the times when the fallen angels mated with humans to produce the race of giants. I guess many of those fallen angels are still wandering around, princes and principalities of the air.
The belief about the fallen angels mating with humans is an old belief. It is from the book of Enoch, an ancient Jewish apocrypha. This book is actually quoted in Jude 1:14-15.

It is a general belief that when satan rebelled he took a third of the angels with him. It is thought that some of these angels mated with human women (there are no female angels mentioned in the Bible).

Gen 6:2; that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.
Gen 6:3; Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
Gen 6:4; The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

i.e. - sons of God = angels, daughters of man = humans, Nephilim = giants.

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

some believe these verses are referring to the events in Genesis 6.

Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

 

[Thorwald]

It's OK to pray or prophesy in the church with her head covered as a sign of submission because of the angels (both to show God's order is followed and so as not to incite the angels to desire the woman's beauty)

I don't know about you, but to me, the word 'silent' means 'to not speak', in this case. Either women are to be silent in the church, or they are not..."Which is it?"

 

[spirit1st]

Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child

That there is talking about satan and the 1?3 of the angels kicked out of heaven ! And the birth of our LORD JESUs and His mother mary !


Revelations ends in chapter 11 which reveals the judgment days ! In chapter 10 we see Time is no more !

in chapter 12 it begins all over again , telling it a bit different ! In chapter 20 it again reveals the judgment day !

Listen there was another heaven , which was defiled when the fallen angels entered it ! That why God made a New place , which is New Jerusalem ! I think enoch and Elijah are in the old heaven ! Because they are still in there defiled bodies ! But satan not allowed to enter either any more !he been cast to the earth and i think our space here ! he no longer can go before our LORD and say anything !


Joh_14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.



Heb_12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


Gal_4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Those who have died in the LORD ,the dead in Christ are with Him now!

2Co_5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co_5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


Eph_3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,


These are the dead in christ returning here with Him ! Jud_1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

 

[B-A-C]

That there is talking about satan and the 1?3 of the angels kicked out of heaven ! And the birth of our LORD JESUs and His mother mary !

Rev 12:1; A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
Rev 12:2; and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.
Rev 12:3; Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems.
Rev 12:4; And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.
Rev 12:5; And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Rev 12:6; Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

You are partially correct, the woman could be taken as Mary or Israel. (twelve stars = 12 tribes)
The child who rules the nations with a rod of iron is Jesus ( Psa 2:9; )
However the dragon definitely is not God the father, why would he want to "devour" his son? Why would Mary flee from God for 3 and half years? (1,260 days)

 

[spirit1st]

dragon is satan !Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


the 12 stars might be the 12 tribes or the 12 disciples! as part of the 24 elders are the 12 disciples for sure! Picked by our Lord Jesus to rule over the 12 tribes forever more !
Some of those fallen angels who were dumb enough to follow him , were princes in heaven ! they had power and now are rulers over certain nations ?
That floor that was sent after Her was , the army sent to kill all the kids under 2 years old ! She and Her husband as our Lord the baby Jesus went to egypt !
seals ,7 angels , They appear almost perfectly matched ! I think they are ! I printed them out once and saw they were the same . except one appeared a little different? But i think they are the same! Just my thinking!

 

[farout]

I (at least for now) have to look at it this way:

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

It has been my great pleasure and privilege to know a few of the finest preachers, and evangelists, that I have ever seen. God moved on and through them mightily, used them for His glory; and oh yeah, they were women.
Who am I to reject what God is using so effectively?
Is this because men did not answer the call or some other reason? I do not know the answers to these questions.

Boanerges: I read your profile and it really blessed me for many reasons. I too was retired because I became disabled. Your post is very true, in the 1800's there were many women pastor's. What most people d not know is in the 1800's immorality was extensive. Often with no preacher couple's just started living together, and sometimes if ne came by they would ask him to marry them. The "Great Awakening" was just that, as Sunday Schools began spreading preachers and teachers were needed. So often women took on the responsibility.

When men won't or can't fill the positions of leadership, it was either a spiritual womandid thw work of pastor, preacher, teacher or i just did not get dome. In the United States women Pastor's and elders are normal in some denominations. (not wanting to get into a denomination's dialogue) I do not understand how or why women serve in those positions today.

I am not a liberal christian, but i sure do not believe that today in our culture women are to be quiet, or that many women can do a lot that was once considered "men's work" nd someso it better than many men. My wife and I enjoy doing Bible study with Kay Aurthur who is on chrisian television. She is a Bible teacher, and some might call her a preacher, she is very well known. How or why God uses someone is His alone to allow. Blessings.


farout

 

[rodd]

Nothing worse than some poor dude standing next to his wife up front in church when she's being introduced as the spiritual leader and he's just 'old hubbie'.
It's seriously pathetic......you can tell straight away, this is queer!

 

[theword]

What difference does it make if women preach from a pulpit? There are sinners all over this world preaching from pulpits. We saints are made sinless before we receive God's knowledge to preach from. Then we can't be called hypocrites when we speak about this false sinful world. We don't participate in the world's sins even though we have to live in it until we are killed. However, we were given a desire to keep eating, wear clothes and sleep.

 

[theword]

Any sinner standing behind a pulpit pretending to speak for God is a hypocrite and liar. Jesus called the Pharisees liars, too, because he knew they weren't sinless saints of God, or the sheep he was referring to all the time. Remember, Jesus spoke for God, not as God. He and all us saints were created as God's voice, called the Word. We aren't the Creators of life.

 

[rodd]

Any sinner standing behind a pulpit pretending to speak for God is a hypocrite and liar. Jesus called the Pharisees liars, too, because he knew they weren't sinless saints of God, or the sheep he was referring to all the time. Remember, Jesus spoke for God, not as God. He and all us saints were created as God's voice, called the Word. We aren't the Creators of life.

Do you think it was by chance that Jesus choose men as his Apostles...x12, you would have thought he might've squeezed a women or two into the group for political correctness sake,......but NO!
Ask yourself why?......Maybe God has set roles for Men and Women, as he has stated in his word, The man must rule his household, not the women, Adam was admonished by God because he listened to Eve, she wore the pants......it's not the natural order of Gods creation that's why!
Don't be deceived!

 

[farout]

Nothing worse than some poor dude standing next to his wife up front in church when she's being introduced as the spiritual leader and he's just 'old hubbie'.
It's seriously pathetic......you can tell straight away, this is queer!

It might seem odd, but to some it may be very natural. I can only say that for some churches this is normal. Queer is not such a good word anymore, and neither is "gay". As I get older I have a desire to go "home"!

 

[rodd]

It might seem odd, but to some it may be very natural. I can only say that for some churches this is normal. Queer is not such a good word anymore, and neither is "gay". As I get older I have a desire to go "home"!

Let me tell you natural only in this 20-21st Century age of change,.......just like the words you talk about having been corrupted by the spirit of the age, having said 'queer' maybe nowdays you've got to say 'strange,' otherwise I could easily be labelled homophobic!
And by the acceptances of this age that would never do would it!

 

[james1523]

I don't know about you, but to me, the word 'silent' means 'to not speak', in this case. Either women are to be silent in the church, or they are not..."Which is it?"

If you read the complete verse on being silent, it is about teaching and having authority of the man. Praying and prophesying is not included.

 

[farout]

Amen James 1523!

 

[rodd]

If you read the complete verse on being silent, it is about teaching and having authority of the man. Praying and prophesying is not included.

The womens lobby love to highlight what they can misconscrude as offensive without detailing the full context of the teaching, they are perverse and corrupt and God will judge them according to their distortion of his word.
They will be called least in the kingdom of heaven Matt 5:19. That's if they're even in!

 

[anya]

Sometimes this gets "iffy" in situations of worship leaders or women teaching college classes (when does a child become a man?) quote B.A.C.
It mentions that there were women singers in the temple of God somewhere in the O.T.(not sure where, don't have concordance with me). Why do we think that it is right for women to be teaching children in Sunday school or schools? I am just not sure the Bible has anything to say about there being a difference between boys and men i.e. it is the woman's responsibility to teach the boys, but the man's to teach the young men. In the Pentateuch God talks about the fathers speaking of Him to the children all day long. I think it may be that if the men took responsibility to teach the boys, we might have stronger spiritual young men. I just have never found Scriptural basis for this ideaology. I do believe that all women must teach their children, but why are they the only ones (for the most part) that have any influence on children when they are in the most character forming years of their lives? Men? Anything to say about this?