Why Pre-Trib is unbiblical

[jari]

You and I have already gone over these types of arguments before, we don't look at things the same way. I am perfectly fine with that. I believe you put lots of effort and thought toward God's word, and that you are diligent in your studies. You have had some very amazing and great points, but on this subject here, I don't think we are going to see eye to eye on it.

part of the forum rules is to post scripture to backup what you say. but since you just say things without regarding the scripture posted by others i think thats violation of the rules.

but im not owner of this site so i don't make the rules i just thought that we would talk via scripture here and not simply express our opinions. Even you posted your scriptures you ignored others so if that's ok here in TJ i dont know why we have such rule that we must post scriptures? I mean if its ok to ignore what others say and the scriptures they post?

doesnt seem very productive for bible study if that's the case.
perhaps Chad could elobrate what's the etique of these forums? do we have to regard other members posts or is it ok to post whatever as long as you do it with scripture?

i don't see how this is working like this, in bible study.

i will now on not take part of this topic for while as i see we have different views and no dialogue.

 

[Brother Mike]

Ignore scriptures.

The only scriptures I bypassed where the ones you posted Jari. I have already posted responses to they same type of objectives you have had in two other post. I can try to find them and link them if you wish.

I see no reason to go over it all again.

I have also covered every single Scripture posted by David with other scriptures.

If it will make you happy, I can re-post the same thing in response to what we have already discussed in other threads if you like.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

The only scriptures I bypassed where the ones you posted Jari. I have already posted responses to they same type of objectives you have had in two other post. I can try to find them and link them if you wish.

i've never posted the scriptures i did before.

it isnt good forum etique to discuss past the original post, thats off topic basically.

and though David is ontopic he's also up to date of the conversation flow.
while you missed what david and i are talking about in essense


i hope you understand now why that doesnt work out for best interest of the bible study in this thread

 

[jari]

Days of Noe, Jerusalem And rapture

Continuing the thread....
Days of Noe, Jerusalem And rapture.

The term days of Noah is found in three different books of the gospels.

however Bible's verses aren't always in same order in one book like in another. But verses are sometimes in distorted order and not in time line.


i have colored matching verses:

Red: Instructions to flee/be safe
Orange: Persecuation
Green: Attack in Jerusalem
Violet: Days Of Noah

Mat 24:9-10
(9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
(10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


Mat 24:15-28
(15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
(17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
(18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
(19) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(20) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
(23) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(25) Behold, I have told you before.
(26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Mat 24:37
(37) But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Luk 17:26-37
(26) And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
(27) They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
(28) Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
(29) But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
(30) Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
(31) In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
(32) Remember Lot's wife.
(33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
(34) I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
(35) Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(36) Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
(37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Luk 21:12-17
(12) But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
(13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
(14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
(15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
(16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
(17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.


Luk 21:20-21
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.




Mar 13:9-12
(9) But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
(10) And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
(11) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
(12) Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.


Mar 13:14-27
(14) But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
(15) And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
(16) And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
(17) But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
(18) And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
(19) For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
(20) And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
(21) And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
(22) For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
(23) But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
(24) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
(25) And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
(26) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
(27) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.


Notice how Jesus tells to flee and not look back to take your stuff when Jerusalem is attacked?

Also he talks about persecuation coming prior to His return, and the days of noah.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

It really does sadden me to see such division amongst the body of Christ.

This site is becoming more about ourselves being right veiled in courtesy. Rather than Loving Jesus and our neighbour as ourselves. :-/

Yes I agree fallen.

This thread has become more a battle of wits, between certain individuals than a reasoned look at Pre-Trib issues.
It could be such an interesting discussion and focus of learning.

Let us all look to the Lord that only His name be glorified in these forums and not self.

Well, my Brothers and Sisters, whenever you put your hand to your brow and say, concerning anything revealed in the Scriptures, ‘I cannot comprehend it,’ lay your other hand upon your heart and say, Nevertheless I believe it.
It is clearly taught in the Bible and although my reason may find it difficult to explain it, and I may not be able to discover any arguments to prove the truth of it, yet I lay my reason down at my Infallible Master’s feet and trust where I cannot see.
Spurgeon


He must increase, but I must decrease....John 3:30

Not I but Christ liveth in me......Galatians 2:20


Not I, but Christ be honoured, loved, exalted,
Not I, but Christ be seen, be known and heard;
Not I, but Christ in every look and action,
Not I, but Christ in every thought and word.

 

[jari]

Yes I agree fallen.

This thread has become more a battle of wits, between certain individuals than a reasoned look at Pre-Trib issues.
It could be such an interesting discussion and focus of learning.

Let us all look to the Lord that only His name be glorified in these forums and not self.

yes i do hope the thread proceeds in more orderly fashion from now on.

topics like this ask for people to express their views but only if we'd stick on one View at a time it would be clearer. So I ask anyone who wishes to talk about his view make a new thread.
there is plenty of room to discuss it.

 

[Brother Mike]

The View.

The title of the thread is why pre-Trib is un- biblical. that covers a whole lot of scriptures.

Jari:

The term days of Noah is found in three different books of the gospels.

however Bible's verses aren't always in same order in one book like in another. But verses are sometimes in distorted order and not in time line.

No, nothing in the Word is distorted or out of place, but in perfect Order as it should be. We add the scriptures and verses, but what was said in where it should be.

It's when things are not in the Order as we like to fit a belief system that is wrong, that is when we think they should be in different order.



-----------------------------------
Once again Jari, Noah, Lot, I see the same thing.........

Both were saved "BEFORE" destruction Hit. Suddenly like a thief, the Lord comes without warning..

When the Lord come with his Angles with power and glory, that is exactly 3 1/2 years after the antichrist declares himself as god. You just count all the events of revelation to the exact day Jesus comes. When the sun goes out, and the stars vanish, you can count to the minute of his coming to remove the tares from the planet. No surprise there.

You say when those in Judea are told to flee you believe he was talking to everyone on the planet, but flee where? in the mountains?
Not everyone has mountains......................

I believe he was talking to Israel as they religiously keep the sabbath day, and most Christians do not.

Matt 24:
(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Wheresoever the Carcase is............................ this is right after tribulation.

Carcase:
ptōma
Thayer Definition:
1) a fall, downfall
1a) metaphorically a failure, defeat, calamity
1b) an error, lapse into sin
2) that which has fallen
2a) the fallen body of one dead or slain, a corpse, a carcase

eagle:
aetos
ah-et-os'
From the same as G109; an eagle (from its wind like flight): - eagle.
aetos; a prim. word; an eagle: - eagle (3), vultures (2)

In other words, the Angels remove those dead in sin, or the tares and they are cast into the furnace. (Rev 14)

Luke:
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.
Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

both cases men where just eating and drinking, having a great time, expecting nothing......... Then tribulation comes........ just like Sodom.

Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Even on the first trumpet blast, 1/3 of the earth is destroyed by fire. that is a large chunk of planet earth. Just like Sodom that was destroyed by fire. This happens long before Judgement day, it's tribulation a time of destruction this earth has never seen.

Jesus said......
whosoever puts their life first to save it shall loose it. Who gives their life to the Lord will preserve it. In one night (No signs, no darkening of the sun, no Lord coming in great glory)

One is taken, the other is left............ Just like Lot was saved from the fire, and Noah and his family saved.

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

They asked, where shall these be taken Lord........ before this great destruction where 1/3 of the earth is burned at the start of tribulation?

Jesus says something different to them, unlike the carcasses in Matt 24 after the tribulation.

Wheresoever the body is..........

Body:
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

The same Greek word used for your body being full of light, the Body of Christ over and over........... The body of Christ....

Where believers are in the World, they are taken, they are saved from the fire and destruction.

Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

1/3 of the Earth is burned right away long before judgement. Destruction this earth has never seen........ We escape ALL these things.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Be counted worthy to escape ALL the things.......... that came to pass........... ALL.


Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

No, nothing in the Word is distorted or out of place, but in perfect Order as it should be. We add the scriptures and verses, but what was said in where it should be.

that's not true you need to study more carefully. I also showed examples in my previous post of this.

compare the scripture of Jesus words found in other books of the gospels and you'll see they the exactly same things found in one book in single chapter maybe found in multiple chapters from another book.

again i covered this in my post, but i guess you didnt read? please take a look if you have time.

 

[Brother Mike]

I did read......

So your saying the scriptures are in distorted order at times??

I also did Read Jari, but once again I only took the time to post because you asked me to.

You also ignored all that I posted, I am not sure what changed in you that you think your right about everything here. I think I showed very clearly the order in which Jesus Mentioned Lot and Noah, in the Order mentioned we escape as they did the destruction to come.

I also took the time to point out the difference in the carcasses and body, one after the tribulation where the tares are removed one the body of Christ removed, being one taken, one left.

I am not sure how to make it more clear.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Both were saved "BEFORE" destruction Hit. Suddenly like a thief, the Lord comes without warning..

Absolutely

When the Lord come with his Angles with power and glory, that is exactly 3 1/2 years after the antichrist declares himself as god. You just count all the events of revelation to the exact day Jesus comes. When the sun goes out, and the stars vanish, you can count to the minute of his coming to remove the tares from the planet. No surprise there.

can you back this up with scripture? can you show scripture that's time for tribulation (3 1/2) ?

You say when those in Judea are told to flee you believe he was talking to everyone on the planet, but flee where? in the mountains?
Not everyone has mountains......................

its about fleeing from jerusalem

I believe he was talking to Israel as they religiously keep the sabbath day, and most Christians do not.

Jesus never spoke about keeping sabbath.

He just said pray your fleeing doesn't happen at sabbath or at winter.

Wheresoever the Carcase is............................ this is right after tribulation.

this is some specific location like in jerusalem, where the "carcase" is

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

somethings going on in there that location. the disciples asked about location "where Lord".

Jesus said......
whosoever puts their life first to save it shall loose it. Who gives their life to the Lord will preserve it

shouldnt take this out from context Jesus was probably referring to what He was talknig about. And not looking back to save your life but flee.

 

[jari]

So your saying the scriptures are in distorted order at times??

I also did Read Jari, but once again I only took the time to post because you asked me to.

You also ignored all that I posted, I am not sure what changed in you that you think your right about everything here. I think I showed very clearly the order in which Jesus Mentioned Lot and Noah, in the Order mentioned we escape as they did the destruction to come.

I also took the time to point out the difference in the carcasses and body, one after the tribulation where the tares are removed one the body of Christ removed, being one taken, one left.

I am not sure how to make it more clear.

Jesus Is Lord.

mike i never asked to post another view. i may have asked you response to the already established points which you never do.

 

[jari]

So your saying the scriptures are in distorted order at times??

yes i believe you need to find the mutual context for the scriptures. things said in mat 24 are found in Luk 21 & Luk 17

 

[jari]

This should give more insight how scriptures are bit scattered in some chapters and books.

i have posted most of mat 24 in comparison to related scripture found from other books of the gospel

the words in mat 24 are found from Luke 17 & 21 and sometimes in entirely different order as it seems to be the case of couple of verses.
like Luk 17:37 about the eagles and carcass.



Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Mat_24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Luk_21:8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Luk 21:10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.



Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Luk 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.


Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.


Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.


Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Luk 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.


Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.



Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.


Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.



Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.


Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;


Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Luk 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.


Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.


Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.



Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.


Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.


Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.



Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[Brother Mike]

Right order.......

Jari, they are in the right order. Rev was all a vision of John, we have things past, present for that day and future all mixed in there. Even the Seals are all listed in Rev 6 but released throughout.

The Gospels are in the Order they are suppose to be. Things said are in the Order they are suppose to be.

Jesus used Body in Luke right after He said one will be taken, one will be left. In Matt he used Carcasses so he is giving a different account of people being taken.

They are two different Greek words brother.

I don't try to mix things around to fit my belief. We are told to read line upon line, line upon line. We are not told to mix to our doctrine. (Isa 28:13)

Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.


If you want to mix and match, go ahead, but I will obey the Lord when it comes to reading his word. We are to find like things comparing spiritual with spiritual, and the gospels are all in perfect order.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[jari]

Jari, they are in the right order.

notice how luke 21 has verses that match beginning of mat 24?
then luke 17 has verses that matches rest of mat 24.

so not in right order.

not in same chapter.

and Luk 17:37 was in end of luke 17.. while in mat 24 its in the middle.

so disciples who recorded bible did have somethings in their own order.

Jesus used Body in Luke right after He said one will be taken, one will be left. In Matt he used Carcasses so he is giving a different account of people being taken.

do you have scripture to back this up?
that they mean the same thing?

 

[jari]

Day of the Lord

day of the Lord, Lord's return and rapture... there will not be much left of earth after that so tribulation must preceed rapture in order for it to have any purpose:

2 Peter 3:10

10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

the heavens shall pass away ... not much of current world left after Lord comes. so there wouldn't be any point to have tribulation after this as whole earth is either scorched or totally gone


Also Thief in the night does not come to us as surprise. As we are children of light:

1 Thessalonians 5

1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.