Can you Lose Your Salvation?

[RJ]

I think I can make this clear now.we both agree that salvation which is only given by God cannot be taken away, or given to anyone but God himself!! agree!! BUT!! If one lives expecting salvation,and his or her works are evil,then matt 7:21 which says not everyone who calls me Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven!! RATHER!!! meaning what I said earlier faith without works is dead,he who DOES the will of my Father which is in Heaven, that man soul can be lost!! because he said he believed, but his fruit was rotton,his reward is hell, not heaven! So what the man or woamn has done, is what Judas did,and to them,fire. hell. not heaven! free will, if we believe,then we have good fruit,if we say we believe,but we live like the World our salvation to me can be lost. because we sell it,as Judas did. I hope you do understand. amen!! LOl blessing!

A few observations:

• I think I can make this clear now , do you mean for me or for you?
• matt 7:21 which says not everyone who calls me Lord Lord shall enter the Kingdom of heaven!, yes, this goes back to our original discussion that true believers can not fall away and are always saved, this is for only New Covenant believers. Here Jesus is talking about judgment day and well after the New Covenant, when all shall bend their knees and call him Lord but, many have already had their chance and not all who call Him Lord will be saved.
• he who DOES the will of my Father which is in Heaven, that man soul can be lost!, where exactly in the Bible does it say this?
• Judas did, Judas lived under the Law and well before Jesus ushered in the New Covenant of salvation by Grace and is not a good example for those of us who do live in the New Covenant and subject to this new contract with God.

 

[Brighthouse]

LOL I am very clear on what i believe on Salvation!! Believe as you will, this is my last note on this. If you think one who says they are saved,and yet lives like the devil is saved,ok,I do not.

 

[RJ]

LOL I am very clear on what i believe on Salvation!! Believe as you will, this is my last note on this. If you think one who says they are saved,and yet lives like the devil is saved,ok,I do not.

This too will be my last words on this:

1. You said above,If you think one who says they are saved,and yet lives like the devil is saved,ok,I do not.[/QUOTE]

Please do not put words in my mouth! I challenge you to go back through my threads on this subject and show where I said anything like that, that's absurd!
But I will get back to the core of my disagreement by quoting what you said and let others decide:


2.This tells me Brother,what one does have,they can surly leave again. Again, I say if you are truly saved, "Born Again" of the Spirit you can not loose your salvation.






IF we are always saved,we have no reason to ever fear salvation.

we can run away,and become lost once again,and if we are to far lost again.

 

[RJ]

LOL I am very clear on what i believe on Salvation!! Believe as you will, this is my last note on this. If you think one who says they are saved,and yet lives like the devil is saved,ok,I do not.

This too will be my last words on this:

1. You said above,If you think one who says they are saved,and yet lives like the devil is saved,ok,I do not.[/QUOTE]

Please do not put words in my mouth! I challenge you to go back through my threads on this subject and show where I said anything like that, that's absurd!
But I will get back to the core of my disagreement by quoting what you said and let others decide:


2. You said :This tells me Brother,what one does have,they can surly leave again. Again, I say if you are truly saved, "Born Again" of the Spirit you can not loose your salvation.

3. You said: If we are always saved,we have no reason to ever fear salvation. Again, I say YES! That is the beauty of God's free gift!!!!

4.You said: we can run away,and become lost once again,and if we are to far lost again. I say again, If you are once truly saved but become "lost again", as you say, I ask this: what next? To be re-saved are you going to ask Jesus to be crucified again and to His public shame? This is EXACTLY what St. Paul is saying in HEB 6:6. Oh, you can"run away alright" but if you run away to unbelief, then Paul is saying that you were not saved in the first place and never did believe!

Love and Blessings!

 

[coachforChrist]

Peace be unto you

First of all, you must know the proper PLACE to truly seek and find God and Jesus, and that PLACE is the very center of your human spirit, in The True Holy of Holies, where God Our Father, and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ truly ABIDE.

Jesus truly invites all to ABIDE in Eternal Life with Him...INSIDE INSIDE INSIDE their human spirits, but the devil draws away most to the OUTSIDE...so they waste the time that God has given them to know Jesus and Live Forever...on evil and vain things of this present evil world.

Like the parable of The Sower Jesus and The Seed, The Holy Word of God...Some seed

1 - fell by the wayside...in other words...they didn't see the Truly Precious and Eternal Value of Jesus The Eternal Living Seed of God within them...and either (God forbid) traded Christ, or sold Christ, or neglected Christ...and let the devil steal The Engrafted Word that is able to save our souls...

2 - some seed had no root (wholehearted saving faith in Jesus and Jesus alone forever for their Eternal Salvation and for every thing that concerns them)

3 - some let the cares and pleasure and worries of the world...keep them busy with worries, doubts, fears, anxieties...when their only HOPE is to Cast ALL their cares and worries on The Lord Jesus alone forever, and forevermore simply WHOLEHEARTEDLY:

• TRUST WHOLEHEARTEDLY IN JESUS ALONE FOREVER...WITHIN THEIR HUMAN SPIRITS
(Proverbs 3:5,6) (Isaiah 26:3,4)

• SURRENDER WHOLEHEARTEDLY TO JESUS ALONE FOREVERMORE...and Cast all their care upon Jesus, for Jesus cares for them WITHIN THEIR HUMAN SPIRITS (1 PETER 5:7)

• RETURN TO JESUS ALONE FOREVERMORE...WITHIN THEIR HUMAN SPIRITS (Joel 2:12)

God forbid...the least atom, that we evilly covet and/or hold onto...including God's Gifts, instead of The Holy Giver Jesus,
leaves an inroad for the devil to attack us and find something in us...

(UNLIKE JESUS WHO SAID...in John 14:30,
"Hereafter I will not talk much with you:
for the prince of this world cometh,
and hath NOTHING in Me.

Also, Jesus had WHOLEHEARTEDLY TRUSTED IN AND SURRENDERED INTO GOD OUR TRULY TRUE TRUSTWORTHY UNCHANGING MERCIFUL FATHER'S WILL...EVERY THING...FOR ALL TIME AND FOR ALL ETERNITY...when Jesus prayed UNTO OUR TRULY GOOD FATHER GOD...Nevertheless...NOT MY WILL...BUT THY WILL BE DONE)

AND...lack of WHOLEHEARTED TRUST IN JESUS ALONE FOREVER AND WHOLEHEARTED CASTING ALL YOUR CARE INTO THE TRULY MERCIFUL ARMS OF JESUS, ALONE FOREVER, every moment, for every thing that troubles you...in both time and Eternity,

prevents the sure eventual Divine Union of God, that God truly is willing and able and seeking and working in all true believers in Jesus as we speak.

God truly promised all His True Children, in Phillipians 1:6,
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun
a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

For rabbit's question on he wished to know HOW to seek God and Jesus in The Holy Scriptures.

God shows us in Isaiah HOW

God Our Truly Good Father, told all how in, Isaiah 28:9,10,
"9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear


Also, if you get a nice Webster's dictionary and a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of The Holy Bible, then it makes it easier for God The Holy Spirit of Christ to lead you and guide you in all of God's Truth.


For It Is Written by God to all, in 1 John 2:27,

"But The Anointing which ye have received of Him abides in you,
and ye need not that any man teach you:
but as the same Anointing teacheth you of all things, and Is Truth, and Is No Lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

 

[amyyy]

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times somew ill abandom the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

 

[Boanerges]

Those folks never really knew God and only went along for what they could get (Luk 13:27 , 1Jn 2:19). Never truly being saved these are the seed that fell amongst the thorns (Mat 13:22) who like the look and the reward but never truly gave his heart.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Those folks never really knew God and only went along for what they could get

I think that "getting saved" is the beginning of the spiritual journey Paul speaks of in Php 2:12-13 where he speaks of us working out our salvation through God's empowering work in our spirits.Key to this is getting to "know" God in the Biblical sense and that involves committment. Our salvation then grows more fruitful when (on a daily basis, in my opinion) we decide to cooperate with the Lord, grow in our knowledge of Him, and turn away from the things of this world.

SLE

 

[Boanerges]

I appreciate what you are saying my brother. Like all things there are many views. Mine is this: we are saved when we are truly born again and the Spirit of God gives us a new inner man. It is only that new inner man that can commune with God, have any part in the Kingdom, walk in union with and express the life of God.
So while I believe we do have to walk it out (express or manifest it) salvation is already ours.
The following verses seem to indicate that salvation (although we do walk it out) is an accomplished fact):

1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[RJ]

1 Timothy 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times somew ill abandom the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

1 Timothy 4

Some Will Depart from the Faith

<sup class="versenum" id="en-ESV-29732">1</sup>Now<sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;#cen-ESV-29732A&quot; title=&quot;See cross-reference A&quot;>A</a>)">(A)</sup> the Spirit expressly says that<sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;#cen-ESV-29732B&quot; title=&quot;See cross-reference B&quot;>B</a>)">(B)</sup> in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to<sup class="xref" value="(<a href=&quot;#cen-ESV-29732C&quot; title=&quot;See cross-reference C&quot;>C</a>)">(C)</sup> deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Again, this is exactly the same thing that Paul refers to in Hebrews 6:4-6.

These people in 1 TIM 4:1 above, that depart ( or fall away) were not truly saved or "Born Again" Christians in the first place. This type of departure is Apostasy, a complete rejection of Jesus Christ; Paul says that this is impossible for a "Born Again" Christian to do!

 

[Brighthouse]

R.J.please add in YOUR opinion!! it is not possible!! Because it sure is in mine, thanks!

 

[Brighthouse]

Philippians 2:16 and 1 Peter 4:17-18 says so. blessing

 

[Brighthouse]

my bad Philippians 2:12!!! forgive the error

 

[RJ]

R.J.please add in YOUR opinion!! it is not possible!! Because it sure is in mine, thanks!

If all this is too private for you. we can go to PM with this.

I can't and won't say what is truly in a persons heart, only God can do that.

Saying that, I will say this: It appears that we are not talking about the same exact thing.

All Christians struggle to a certain degree, those who say anything different are in denial.

The struggling part is exactly what St. Paul was talking about with the admission of his own sin in Romans 7.God was telling the church then and telling us still, it's O.K., God is essentially saying: "I know your not perfect, that's why I sent my son. You being" what I call Born Again, which means me living in you, I see only Christ's perfection and not your imperfection".

Brighthouse, don't confuse your struggles with your faith as the same "falling away" that Paul refers to in Hebrews 6. He already told you about his struggles in Romans 7. The "Falling Away", that he refers to is complete rejection of Jesus Christ as the Messiah or Savior.

Now, if you think that you are struggling with all out rejection of Jesus Christ, then we need to talk!
Otherwise, if you are "Born Again" then because of Christ you are Holy and Righteous, even though you don't feel like it all the time.

 

[RJ]

my bad Philippians 2:12!!! forgive the error

My apologies if I am wrong, but it appears to me you are looking for too many reasons why your not saved than all the reasons why you are!

I have no idea where you are going with Philippians 2:12.

In 1 Peter 4: 17-18, All God is saying if we are barely saved, which we are but saved non-the-less, but being barely saved, what do think will happen to the unsaved on Judgment day? "Barley Saved" here is just to show us how much we are like the unsaved, because we were once just like them!... "none of us is worthy, no not one!!!

And if the way of the righteous be so hard, then how hard shall be the end of the ungodly sinner!

God never said it was going to be easy!!!!

 

[Boanerges]

Christ is my righteousness and only in that may I stand.

 

[RJ]

Christ is my righteousness and only in that may I stand.

Amen and Halleluhja !!!

And there is no condemnation for those in him.

 

[RJ]

Jesus parable of the wheat and the tares describes several individuals who for various reasons like the sound and benefits of the gospel but never took it to heart.

Those who may seem saved but He looks at them and responds "I never knew you"- these were the seed on rocky ground, weed choked ground, etc. These indeed tasted of God but in the end preferred the world- they were never really His. The seed planted in good soil (a willing , yielded heart) are saved and bearing fruit comes natural.

1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The scripture above plainly demonstrates that those who fall away never really belonged to Christ.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Believe on the Lord and do not trust your own strength, you will be saved.

What you say is truth!
I was looking back at this thread and I am surprised at how many and, even who doesn't believe what you say and the meaning of the Parable of the Sower.

I see those that are probably saved yet, it must be discouraging at times, when they fail to maintain what ever it is that they think they need to be doing. What then? Do you go back to God and ask for forgiveness all over again? How many times does Jesus have to die for your sins and to his shame; that is exactly what Paul says in Hebrews 6.

I have come to the conclusion that a person can be saved but whether they are totally at peace with God, is a matter of whether they live in truths or untruths.
And if you do live in any untruth, it can lead to bondage.

Therefore, there is no condemnation for those in Christ!

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The following verses seem to indicate that salvation (although we do walk it out) is an accomplished fact):

I think you and I are pretty much on the same page. Salvation without discipleship (being apprenticed to Jesus) is "fire insurance" without spreading the Good News . Your term "walking it out" seems similar to Paul's wording in Php 2:12. 1 Cor 3:12-13 says, "If any man builds on this foundation (Jesus) using gold, silver, costly stones, (or) wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day (Judgement Day) will bring it to light." This would seem to say that there is some sort of incentive connected to walking out/working out our salvation by growing spiritually and helping people find Jesus (see Mt 28:19).

SLE.

 

[patches]

I think if you proclaim with your mouth but have no actions to back it up then you might be in jeopardy of loosing your salvation.