The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath

[herald]

A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. He, only, "thinks to change," because, no man/institution can overrule our Creator and change His law. There is, only, one time in His Covenant - the Sabbath.

Catholic: "Question.- Have you any other way of proving that the church has the power to institute festivals of precept?"

"Answer. - Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." - Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

Presbyterian: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." -Dwight's theology, vol.4, p. 401.

Congregational: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." - Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

Lutheran: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church." - "Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

Episcopalian: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday." - Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186.

Methodist: "It is true there is no command for infant baptism...Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week." - Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180,182, 1902 ed.

Baptist: Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov 13, 1893 said, "There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all it's duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

"Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"

Our Creator instituted the Sabbath as part of the Creation Covenant with Adam, and so with all of mankind. Jesus referred to Himself, as the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8; Mk 2:28; Lu 6:5. Sunday was called, "The Lord's Day," in sun worship, common in The Roman Empire.

To say, that, the Sabbath is obsolete, is to reject the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, who prophesied, that,the Sabbath would, still, be kept during The Great Tribulation: "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on The Sabbath Day: for then shall be Great Tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:20,21. And we are not there, yet.

When Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18. These two are a summation of The Ten:

If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not worship or bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbor as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet.

"By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments. For this is love that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Not for those under The New Covenant, that, have His Covenant engraved upon their hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10; 10:12-17. Born again believers are called, "the seed of Abraham." Ga 3:16,29. "For he is not a Jew, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28,29.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...to such as keep His Covenant, and to those that remember His commandments to do them." Ps 103.

Covenants have conditions.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev14:12.

At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

There are Ten Commandments in His Covenant - not nine. They are commandments and not requests.

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex20:8.

 

[jiggyfly]

Colossians 2:9&10
9 For in Christ the fullness of God lives in a human body,* 10 and you are complete through your union with Christ. He is the Lord over every ruler and authority in the universe.

Colossians 2:16&17
16 So don’t let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these rules were only shadows of the real thing, Christ himself.

Hebrews 8:13-9:1
13 When God speaks of a new covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside.
1 Now in that first covenant between God and Israel, there were regulations for worship and a sacred tent here on earth.

Hebrews 9:9&10
9 This is an illustration pointing to the present time. For the gifts and sacrifices that the priests offer are not able to cleanse the consciences of the people who bring them. 10 For that old system deals only with food and drink and ritual washing—external regulations that are in effect only until their limitations can be corrected.

 

[herald]

Well, let's hear what the Lord has to say about the Sabbath:

"And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made." Gen 2:2,3.


"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

(The Lord repeats for emphasis)

And what does Revelation refer to as The Everlasting Gospel? "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having The Everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation and kindred and tongue and people. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: AND WORSHIP HIM THAT MADE HEAVEN, AND EARTH, AND THE SEA, AND THE FOUNTAINS OF WATER." Rev 14:6,7.

God is calling us back to honor Him as our Creator, by keeping His Sabbath day holy.

Rome says, "Of course, the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F. , Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

Again, Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority...The church is ABOVE THE BIBLE, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my divine power, I ABOLISH THE SABBATH DAY, and COMMAND YOU to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world BOWS DOWN in reverent obedience ot the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

(emphasis added)

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or, "Blue laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction meant death! (Jesus never used the state to further the Kingdom of God.)

In Rev. 17, the Lord refers to the Catholic/Protestant religious system, as the "Mother of harlots." She has replaced much of the Word of God with her traditions.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partaker of her sins (the transgression of the law: 1 John 3:4) and that ye receive not of HER PLAGUES. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities." (lawlessness).

How do we "Come out?" By doing as the Bereans: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind, searching the Scriptures, daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that WE KNOW HIM, if we keep His comandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4

2 Tim 3:16 says, "Every Scripture is God breathed..."

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him: THE WORD that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

One day, soon, we will, each one, stand before Him and give to Him an account for how we lived our lives.

Is our allegiance to the "Mother of harlots," and her traditions?

Or, to our Creator?

 

[byhisgrace]

Monday is recognised as the first day of our work week...Saturday we have off, but usually do the things we have to do around the house/yard...and Sunday in all aspects EXCEPT the calendar is the seventh day of the week with the beginning starting again with Monday.
but even if it wasn't, I don't believe it will send you to hell.
you are saved by his grace and not by what order they put "sunday" on. I don't believe the Bible states..."thou shalt honor me and rest on the Sunday/Saturday of the week"

 

[judgement]

the sabbath

1. All of the Ten Commandments were reinstated in the New Testament with only one exception, the one dealing with the Saturday Sabbath Day being kept holy.
The 1st commandment was reinstated in Matt. 22:37; 1 Cor. 8:5,6.
The 2nd commandment was reinstated in 1 Jn. 5:21. (Col. 3:5 and Eph. 5:5 broadens idolatry to include covetousness.)
The 3rd commandment was reinstated in Col. 3:8.
The 5th commandment was reinstated in Eph. 6:1-3.
The 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th commandments were reinstated in Rom. 13:8-10; Matt. 19:18; Gal. 5:14; 1 Cor. 6:9,10; and Gal. 5:19-21.
Sometimes Heb. 4:4 and 4:9,10 are thought to show the sabbath command was reinstated in the NT merely because the word "sabbath" is found. Let's look at this passage:
For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest." It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his (Heb. 4:4-10).
Please note: That passage mentions only a "Sabbath rest," but not the keeping of the Sabbath, as Israel was commanded in the Old Testament! Furthermore, this "Sabbath rest" can not be equated with the keeping of the Saturday Sabbath, for even the Israelites who did keep it did not enter this "rest." A Christian finds his spiritual rest in Christ (Mt. 11:28). Only the 4th commandment, which is ceremonial rather than moral, was not reinstated in the New Testament, the covenant we are under today.

2. The Saturday Sabbath command was a memorial for those delivered from slavery in Egypt.
The Saturday Sabbath command was given soon after the Israelites were delivered by Moses. Read of the crossing of the Red Sea in Exodus 14. The point of Exodus 19:1 was just three months after they left Egypt, with Exodus 20 (when the Ten Commandments were given) coming soon thereafter.
Exodus 20:1-17 is repeated in Deut. 5:6-21, where Moses expounds upon WHY it came and to WHOM the Sabbath command was given.


"Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day" (Deut. 5:15).
As Passover was an annual memorial festival for the Jews to celebrate in memory of God, who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt while the firstborn of the Egyptians were struck dead (Ex. 12:14-30), the Saturday Sabbath was also for the Jews to remember weekly their historical deliverance from bitter slavery in Egypt, Deut. 5:15. The Saturday Sabbath command, therefore, was not a "creation ordinance" as some say, according to Deut. 5:15. Also consider the following:
"The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested" (Exo 31:16,17).
3. Christians are permitted to make up their own minds about a special day.
"One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord ...." (Rom. 14:5,6).
If the Saturday Sabbath command was still enforced today, as in the Old Testament, such "liberty" would NEVER be allowed! Can you imagine such Christian "liberty" in setting up idols, committing adultery or stealing? Since the latter are clear commands (no idolatry, no adultery, no stealing), there is no such "liberty" regarding these matters, in contrast to a special weekly day to the Lord. Also remember, when Paul gave us Romans 14, he knew about Gen. 2:3 and the rest of the Old Testament. Among Saturday sabbatarians there does NOT exist this Christian liberty!
Col. 2:16,17 adds to all this by saying:

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
If it is true, as some say, that the pope changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, then why did first-century Christians sometimes meet on Sunday?

On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight (Acts 20:7).
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made (1 Cor. 16:2).
4. The Gentile Christians were NOT informed to keep the Saturday Sabbath (or the rite of circumcision) when practices and commands were officially passed on to them from the original church council.
In Acts 15, the first church council convened over a false teaching of that day:
"Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved," verse 1.
When the Lord's apostles wrote their decision about circumcision for the Gentile Christians to read (Acts 15:23-29), their silence about the observance of the Jewish Sabbath is significant, especially when we consider that breaking the Saturday Sabbath command in the Old Testament carried with it very serious consequences, including the death sentence for offenders (Exo. 31:14-17 cf. Num. 15:32-36):

5. Paul tells us the real purpose of the entire Ten Commandments (law) in Gal. 3:24 and Rom. 3:20.
"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith."
"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."
6. If the Saturday Sabbath command as given to Israel is still in effect, then the Lord Jesus commanded a person to sin by breaking it:
"Sir," the invalid replied, "I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me." Then Jesus said to him, "Get up! Pick up your mat and walk." At once the man was cured; he picked up his mat and walked. The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat." But he replied, "The man who made me well said to me, 'Pick up your mat and walk' " (John 5:7-11).
The Lord Jesus commanded that invalid, on a Sabbath, to pick up his mat and walk with it to be healed. Hence, this would constitute "work," according to the Old Testament Sabbath command. Since the Lord of the Sabbath could NEVER command a person to sin, we, thereby know that Christians today are NOT under this same Sabbath command as given to Israel in Ex. 20:8-11, which reads:
"Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy (Ex. 20:8-11).
Again, what the Lord Jesus told the man to do was forbidden to be done on a Sabbath, as the Jews correctly noted:
"The day on which this took place was a Sabbath, and so the Jews said to the man who had been healed, "It is the Sabbath; the law forbids you to carry your mat" (John 5:9,10).
Here's the exact Scripture where such was forbidden:
"This is what the LORD says: Be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it through the gates of Jerusalem. Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy, as I commanded your forefathers. Yet they did not listen or pay attention; they were stiff-necked and would not listen or respond to discipline. But if you are careful to obey me, declares the LORD, and bring no load through the gates of this city on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy by not doing any work on it" (Jer. 17:21-24).
The Jews were right that the law, as given to Israel, to keep holy the Sabbath day forbid such things from being done. Hence, the OT Sabbath command can no longer be valid for Christians. So when did this change? The answer is found in Lk. 16:16:
"The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it."
This is also the reason why we don't see this part of the 10 commandments reinstated in the New Testament. This point cannot be answered by the SDA people.

Sabbatarians Are Not Keeping The Saturday Sabbath
Saturday Sabbatarians claim to keep the Sabbath command as was given to Israel, but in reality are only keeping a modified Sabbath regulation, which is not keeping it at all! Below are three reasons why this is so:

(A) In the OT, when this command was given to Israel and enforced, people were to be put to death for desecrating the Sabbath (Ex. 31:14,15):


"Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death. The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested" (Exo. 31:14-17).
A man was put to death for violating this command (Num. 15:32-36). So the same ones (Israel) that kept the Sabbath put to death Sabbath violators. Sabbatarians are NOT doing this!
(B) The Sabbath keepers were NOT allowed to light a fire on the Sabbath day:


"Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day" (Ex. 35:3, KJV).
If your heat in the winter is automatic through your furnace, you are violating this command. If you light your stove on the Sabbath you violate this command. If have an automatic hot water heater you are violating this command. Finally, if you start your car on the Sabbath, you have also violated this command given to Israel. Note: When you start your car, you start a fire that did not exist moments before.
(C) On "EVERY Sabbath" there is to be a burnt offering:


"On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil. This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering" (Num. 28:9,10).
This OT command for Sabbath keepers is clearly forbidden under the New Covenant in light of the book of Hebrews. The early Christians didn't do this and, therefore, did not keep the Saturday Sabbath command like Israel (Ex. 20:8-11 cf. Num. 28:9,10).

Sabbath breakers will NOT be thrown into the lake of fire
There is no Scripture in the New Testament which states that Sabbath breakers will be thrown into the lake of fire. On the other hand, the New Testament does state that idolaters, murderers, thieves, the covetous, the sexually immoral, liars, etc. will be excluded from the kingdom of God and thrown into the lake of burning sulfur (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Eph. 5:5-7; Gal. 5:19-21; Rev. 21:8). Furthermore, there are others, like the drunkards, etc. who are not mentioned in the Ten Commandments, that will likewise experience the same eternal destiny, that is, unless they repent (1 Cor. 6:9,10; Gal. 5:19-21).
For a Saturday Sabbatarian to say one MUST keep the Saturday Sabbath regulation for salvation is to place themselves under the anathema found in Gal. 1:8,9.

A person can be a true Christian and have Sunday as the special day unto the Lord.

 

[Br. Bear]

Can we say, "Jesus be praised and glorified" and remember that ONLY by the shedding of His blood, until death on the cross, for us, according to the richness of God's mercy and grace in Jesus Christ the Lord, can any of us even begin to try to comprehend the mind and will of God?

Remember the Lord..... and He who called us and is Faithful and True, will work in us to do His will, for His glory.

All those who fight over the Lord will still be fighting when He comes, and the Sabbath is no exception. DO all things unto the Lord, and He will judge you accordingly, as He has already paid in full for each one of you and anyone teaching and preaching otherwise is none of His..... and His one and only requirement is that we believe...... and I tell you now, that such is His great unsearchable love for every one of us that He even gives us our faith as a gift..... so, children, do not fight and try to lay claim upon the mysteries of His grace and forgiveness, but rather repent and believe, today while it is still today, if you harden not your hearts, and enter into His rest.

Glory be to the Lord on High, and peace upon earth to all men....

Lift up your voices in Praise to Jesus the Lamb of God.

 

[herald]

You are confusing the ceremonial law with the Ten Commandment Covenant. The ceremonial law was fulfilled in His sacrifice.

Circumcision is now of the heart, washings are baptism. He was the clean, sacrificed for the unclean, so that we may be clean. The Sabbath Feast days were fulfilled:

Passover: Our Passover Lamb
Unleavened Bread: He was without sin
Tabernacles: He "tabernacled amongst us...

If the ceremonial law were not fulfilled, we would, still, be sacrificing animals. The Ten Commandment Covenant deals with our character, and was not fulfilled.

Ceremonial Law:

1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15.
2. Was spoken by Moses. Lev 1:1-3
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12
4. Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-26.
5. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14.
6. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15

The Ten Commandment Covenant:

1. Is called, the "royal law." Ja 2:8
2. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13
3. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18
4. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20;Heb 9:4.
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8
6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Mt 5:17,18.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony (sounds like the tablets) heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

In Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used, interchangebly with "statutes," "precepts," "law," "commandments," testimonies," "judgments...

His Word = His law.

When His Spirit is within us , we are enabled by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk with Him in holiness. The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

Jesus took the commandments to the motive of the heart. That is where the New Covenant is engraved. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10; 10:12-17. That is why He said, that, if a man looks upon a woman to lust, he has, already, committed adultery with her in his heart. Or, if you are angry with your brother, without cause, you are guilty of murder.

James 2:10,11 says, that, if we break one of the Ten Commandments, we become transgressors of His law and are guilty of breaking all of them.

When Moses struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter the Promised Land, because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

Disobedience/unbelief
Obedience/faith

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."
"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

Faith is, always, obedient to His Word - His law.

"Even so, faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father, JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou, HOW FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?

And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God...For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead, also." James 2.

"DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID:YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

"What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN, ("the transgression of the law") that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

Jesus said, that, the Sabbath would be kept during The Great Tribulation. Mt 24:20,21.

Isaiah prophesied, that, we will keep The Sabbath in His Kingdom:

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before Me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the Lord." Isa 66:22,23.

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple, The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL." Rev 11:19

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

These are His Words - not mine.

 

[Fellowservant]

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Act 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; [namely], Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Act 15:23 And they wrote [letters] by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren [send] greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:
Act 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Act 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Act 15:30 So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle:
Act 15:31 [Which] when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.
Act 15:32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed [them].
Act 15:33 And after they had tarried [there] a space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles.


Seems that this is saying that the Gentiles may be excused from keeping a carnal commandment? If we really did need to keep the sabbath for salvation, wouldn't they have mentioned it to these Gentiles? I know the law is written on our hearts now, but i don't see the Gentiles anywhere in the scriptures of the new testament, needing to keep the sabbath for salvation. Something that important should have been taught to the Gentiles more plainly, don't you agree? And i am referring to the Gentile here, not a saved Jew. And how do we keep the sabbath now, without the ordinances? Did you know that in Israel Jews who keep the sabbath won't even start their vehicles, or turn on lightbulbs or ovens, its to them considered to be kindling a fire. I just got a new electric range, and it has a timer on it for the sabbath, so you don't have to turn it on on the sabbath. How far do we need to go here, if we did need to keep the sabbath?

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Read the above, are you in disagreement with the Holy Ghost?

God bless

 

[Chad]

Herald, what is this?

Rome says

Since when is "Rome" any authority of the Holy Bible? Catholics / Rome have ZERO authority over the Word of GOD, so your point is rendered without merit.

The ceremonial law was fulfilled in His sacrifice.

Galatians 2:15-17

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Article from gotquestions.org

The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to make the Israelites know how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments for example), some of them were to show them how to worship God (the sacrificial system), some of them were to simply make the Israelites different from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law applies to us today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) which is to, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:37-40). If we do these two things, we will be fulfilling all that Christ wants for us to do, “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). Technically, the Ten Commandments are not even applicable to Christians. However, 9 of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God we won't be worshipping other gods or worshipping idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we won't be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. So, we are not under any of the requirements of the Old Testament law. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we do those two things faithfully, everything else will fall into place.

The "catechism" is loaded with unscriptural teachings. Its best you do your research before copying/pasting anything you wish.

Read this:
http://www.talkjesus.com/bible-study-hall/5886-christian-catholic.html

I do not understand your point in quoting many denominations. Who are they? What authority do denominations have? What is the point of quoting them if the only authority is the Word itself?

Tell me, do you think anyone who does not observe the Sabbath is going to hell? I get you do based on your previous posts. Have you yourself at least once not "honored the Sabbath" during your walk with Christ? If there was one time you did not honor it, how did you feel? Do you have an excuse for that day?

Faith is, always, obedient to His Word - His law.

"Even so, faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Was not Abraham our father, JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou, HOW FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?

If your going to quote Scripture, please quote it correctly by providing the necessary info: book/chapter/verses

Romans 3:19-22

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

 

[byhisgrace]

Can we say, "Jesus be praised and glorified" and remember that ONLY by the shedding of His blood, until death on the cross, for us, according to the richness of God's mercy and grace in Jesus Christ the Lord, can any of us even begin to try to comprehend the mind and will of God?

Remember the Lord..... and He who called us and is Faithful and True, will work in us to do His will, for His glory.

All those who fight over the Lord will still be fighting when He comes, and the Sabbath is no exception. DO all things unto the Lord, and He will judge you accordingly, as He has already paid in full for each one of you and anyone teaching and preaching otherwise is none of His..... and His one and only requirement is that we believe...... and I tell you now, that such is His great unsearchable love for every one of us that He even gives us our faith as a gift..... so, children, do not fight and try to lay claim upon the mysteries of His grace and forgiveness, but rather repent and believe, today while it is still today, if you harden not your hearts, and enter into His rest.

Glory be to the Lord on High, and peace upon earth to all men....

Lift up your voices in Praise to Jesus the Lamb of God.

amen and amen....good advice

 

[herald]

Again, circumcision, washings, Sabbath Feasts, clean/unclean have to do with the ceremonial law, which was fulfilled.

You cannot separate the fourth commandment from His Covenant.

If you break any of His commandments, you are a transgressor of His law.

Our Creator sanctified and blessed the seventh day at Creation - long before there was a Jewish nation.

He has never abolished or changed the day, that, He sanctified and blessed.

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.

A commandment.

 

[Chad]

You ignored my previous questions. Are you going to answer them, or sway around them? They are valid questions after all.

 

[herald]

Actually, I did refer to the Scripture - it was James 2.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

These are not my words, but His.

You must not have read all my posts...the "Two Greatest Commandments," came from the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

These two are a summation of The Ten:

If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not worship or bow down to other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbor as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet.

"By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments. FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Not to those under The New Covenant who have His Covenant engraved upon their hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10;10:12-17.

We cannot trust in our own emotions: "Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death." Pro 7:25-27.

When Peter trusted in his emotions, he told Jesus, that, He didn't need to die upon the cross.

Jesus looked at him, and said, "Get thee, behind Me, Satan!" Mt 16:23.

When James and John trusted in their own understanding, and wanted to follow the example of Elijah (denominational precedent?), and wanted to call fire down from heaven upon the Samaritans, Jesus turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." Lu 9:55.

That is what happens when we trust in our own traditions and understanding.

Did you know, that, Jesus had a commandment from the Father?

"For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak." John 12:49,50.

"He that saith he abideth in Him, ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:6.

Let us speak His Word, alone.

 

[Chad]

No, you did not answer my questions at all. Your being dishonest now. And, I did read all of your posts. Don't assume otherwise because you cannot prove that I did not read your previous posts.

Previous Post: http://www.talkjesus.com/110195-post9.html

Let's try this one more time.

1. Since when is "Rome" any authority of the Holy Bible?

2. Regarding denominations:
Who are they?
What authority do denominations have?
What is the point of quoting them if the only authority is the Word itself?

3. Do you think anyone who does not observe the Sabbath is going to hell

4. Have you yourself at least once not "honored the Sabbath" during your walk with Christ? If there was one time you did not honor it, how did you feel? Do you have an excuse for that day?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Re: The Sabbath

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices - mint, dill. and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former, You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel!"
(Mt 23:23-24)

SLE

 

[Br. Bear]

God is Love 1John 4:8b

Jesus had His opposition from legalists.

We have laws in each country to govern the people. Most of these laws are for the welfare and safety of the inhabitants of each land.

It is against the law to murder someone. Why? Is it to condemn the murderer? Of course not! It is to set a standard amongst the people, amongst society, of safety and well being.

Until most countries were visited by Christians, murder was OK under that land's specific laws. In some countries it still is. Although there is much ado about the Christian influence 'destroying' people groups and cultures, a little investigation will reveal that in fact, the people have in large been set free, and the basis of the new laws established in such countries is the law being built upon what we know to be called, The Ten Commandments.
(please don't use the above for trying to fault Christianity and the shocking things that have been done by many in history in the name of Christ.... Jesus would have none of it, and due to the flesh, many have transgressed and violated other people... and many still do.... but that does not reflect in any way who Jesus is nor what He requires of us and delights in)

So, Why did God give those commandments, written on stone?

Is it because He wanted to be legalistic? Or because He wanted to condemn people? Or because He wanted to punish transgressors? Or is it because He is love?

The answer is because He, God, is love.

If we have no laws, then we can do whatever we please, and of course, that means that everyone else can, too. While some may think (without thinking) that it would be ideal, it wouldn't take long before they changed their minds and even prayed for law and order to be established in their land.

So, we see that until Christ Jesus had fulfilled the law in Himself upon the cross, seeing that the penalty of sin is death, we see the Old Testament , or Covenant in place in the society of the Jewish people (Israel).

As with all laws, they must be adhered to, and the set punishment is and always was a deterrent to keep people serious about keeping each law.

Now, history testifies that the law based on 'The Ten Commandments' is the most effective and just, caring, balanced law that a land can have.

So, where did such a law originate? From the hand of the LORD.

Again, let us look at why the LORD gave His commandments.

One does not have to go very deep in thought or study or even great Scriptural theology to see that He, the LORD God, gave these commandments because He wanted the very best for His people.
And, that is the very reason He now writes His law upon our hearts.

So, looking at the Sabbath...

Is this particular law any more there for the purpose of condemnation and punishment than the other 'nine'? A quick read will reveal that it is in fact a wonderful blessing between all mankind and Himself, with a blessing. It is also a reflection of His love.
And best of all....

it points to Jesus Christ.

Jesus is our rest. Everything we are told about the almighty divinity of Jesus in the Bible is reflected in this commandment of the Sabbath Rest. (of course, one would need to expound, to open the Scriptures, to fully grasp such a bold statement).

Jesus is the Prince of Peace. That name in itself spells REST.

So why do ye labour and fight over His love, dear brothers and sisters? Who hath bewitched you? Really, do we have a law to send us to the grave, or to bless us? Our God is love .... and ONLY wants to bless us. Such is pure love. It has no intention of punishment nor revenge, nor retribution, nor condemnation.

Jesus was, and is, a friend to sinners.... doesn't that strike you as a bit strange if God was bent on punishing transgressors of the Law?

Truly, the transgressors are and always have been the legalists who transgress against what God's purpose is, and who put stumbling blocks and barriers, veils, and walls up in order to keep people from His rest, using His law for evil, for self establishment and gain, and who keep people from reaching Him by His pure undefiled grace.

Those who try and re-establish what He has rent assunder will be those who might taste the flames. They come in several denominational packages, and use every crafty bit of deceit to render the grace of God in Jesus Christ the Lord as obsolete and worthless, bringing souls into bondage, like themselves that they may devour them and strip them of any liberty bought by Christ's life for ALL who believe.

The Kingdom of God is not ruled by 'The Ten Commandments' but by grace, which by very nature, is LOVE.

Before Christ died for the sins of the world there was the OLD covenant. Now we are under the NEW and living covenant of life in Christ by grace and we are empowered by the Holy Ghost to keep His law of liberty.... which is freedom and rest.

There is nothing wrong at all with 'keeping the sabbath' if it is kept as it was ordained... to stop from worldly seeking and gain, rejoice in the Lord, remembering His awesome days of creating our life here, and to rest.... a very much needed, in fact, essential requirement to health and well being.
As soon as it becomes a law again, it becomes a stumbling block to grace.

There was a chap crucified next to our Lord who received life.... and there is absolutely nothing whatsoever in any Scripture or historical writing to suggest that that man kept the Sabbath. Doesn't that tell you something powerful about grace?

Jesus is the rest we look for. There is no other way to Salvation or pleasing the LORD than by believing in God's love in Jesus Christ the Lord.

Bless you ...>

Br. Bear

Let those who have ears hear.

 

[jiggyfly]

You are confusing the ceremonial law with the Ten Commandment Covenant. The ceremonial law was fulfilled in His sacrifice.

Herald, Paul refers to the old law and places it in the old covenant many times throughout his letters. Yet some want to take it out of the old covenant.

2 Corinthians 3:7-18
7 That old system of law etched in stone led to death, yet it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. 8 Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory when the Holy Spirit is giving life? 9 If the old covenant, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new covenant, which makes us right with God! 10 In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new covenant. 11 So if the old covenant, which has been set aside, was full of glory, then the new covenant, which remains forever, has far greater glory.
12 Since this new covenant gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory fading away. 14 But the people’s minds were hardened, and even to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, a veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand.
16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, then the veil is taken away. 17 Now, the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, he gives freedom. 18 And all of us have had that veil removed so that we can be mirrors that brightly reflect* the glory of the Lord. And as the Spirit of the Lord works within us, we become more and more like him and reflect his glory even more.

 

[herald]

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

This is the Word of God.

I am, only, a messenger. What you do with this information is between each one and the Lord.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.

 

[Chad]

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

This is the Word of God.

I am, only, a messenger. What you do with this information is between each one and the Lord.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.

Herald, your a dishonest person. This is your 3rd time disregarding my questions. I know exactly why and everyone else here knows why.

Your no longer welcomed to post you false teachings here on Talk Jesus. I gave you a few chances already and you reject correction from everyone here. You have a hardened heart and I won't let you deceive anyone here with your false teaching.

You are obviously a hypocrite who cannot answer simple questions.

 

[jiggyfly]

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

This is the Word of God.

I am, only, a messenger. What you do with this information is between each one and the Lord.

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.

And just how will you keep it holy? Didn't the priests work more on the Sabbath than they did on other days? In the new covenant are we not all priests? The new and old covenants do not mix, it is not a covenant and an amendment. We have an old covenant and a new covenant and the old covenant has been fulfilled by Christ for everyone and is now obsolete even for Israel, even though the still try and adhere in vain.

It's all very simple until carnal religion and thinking get involved. God will not dwell in a temple made from human hands now that He has implemented the new covenant, so when we try to become righteous outwardly on our own abilities ( keeping the law), becoming a good person, and so on....., in essence we are building the temple, a temple which God will not dwell in. So I hope you get the picture, it is God's working in us that's important and our part is simply to cease of our own working and enter into the rest that is in Christ and trusting in His work, period.

Look here at what Pauls says here in Ephesians.
Ephesians 3:14-21
14 When I think of the wisdom and scope of God’s plan, I fall to my knees and pray to the Father,* 15 the Creator of everything in heaven and on earth. 16 I pray that from his glorious, unlimited resources he will give you mighty inner strength through his Holy Spirit. 17 And I pray that Christ will be more and more at home in your hearts as you trust in him. May your roots go down deep into the soil of God’s marvelous love. 18 And may you have the power to understand, as all God’s people should, how wide, how long, how high, and how deep his love really is. 19 May you experience the love of Christ, though it is so great you will never fully understand it. Then you will be filled with the fullness of life and power that comes from God.
20 Now glory be to God! By his mighty power at work within us, he is able to accomplish infinitely more than we would ever dare to ask or hope. 21 May he be given glory in the church and in Christ Jesus forever and ever through endless ages. Amen.


Again, I hope you can see that it is all in trusting Jesus and what He has done and that He is doing everything necessary in us so we can enjoy fellowship with Father. All the warnings about sinning in the new testament are there to guard us against deception, like James said about a man who looks at himself in the mirror but is deceived about what he saw. If I am sinning then self is leading. But here is where the strongest deception lies, religious works have the appearance of Godliness but they deny God working within.

When you see that Father's plan is not one of "recreating" but rather one of "recovering" it all seems to come together.