Worldly gain vs godliness

[Bendito]

1. No. I am supporting the fact that life for the God fearing can be hell. This is the only chance God has to put us through trials and tribulations. He will use it. I tell God daily that I am no Job. I have not got the faith needed to endure what he did.

2. We are not God that can presume to know His plan for our life. He may or may not want us to be rich. We need to learn to be content in Him, rich or poor. Phil 4:12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

3. I do not disagree with those scriptures. We just can't walk on a promise basis with God. We give, we then 'demand' He blesses / gives tenfold return. We should also see real blessings as treasure in heaven.

4. That's because most people are fools. Poor people who are not lazy can all teach us about faith. In heaven they will have quite a testimony. As will the sick. Prophet so and so who endured through sickness and health, poverty and riches. Imagine a wife being faithful to you through poverty and sickness. She will be worth her weight in GOLD!!!!! Same with us to God. The reality is that most wives won't stick with poor and sick men . Its the same with Christians to God. Hence God mostly blesses most. I am sure, in fact I know He is dying to put us through a trial like that. It is the ONLY way to build depth in a relationship. Think about it!!! No pain no gain !! I am always reminded of how their are Matt 7:22 and then James 1:27 Christians at church.

5. How much? You really think God needs money to do things? God can print all the paper money in the world without even lifting a finger. If it takes faith of a mustard seed to move a mountain....It takes faith a very finely sharpened pencil dot to print paper money. So if God does not do this for us, there must be one hell of a good reason for it.

You have to try and understand that the reason we are on earth is to help God with the complications involved in getting someone to actually love Him. God is like a rich man trying to find a bride that actually does love Him. If He had to flash his money he will get every bride on the planet. But none would actually love Him.

Jesus is trying to teach us a very important lesson with the mustard seed sarcasm!!! We need to learn it!!!!

6. I disagree. I see most prosperity teachers teaching their flock that they are super Jews who can hold God to promises if they have unwavering faith and are super bold. We are not Jews. We are not to be disrespectful to God. Faith is not something separate from our Christianity. It is the very reason we are a Christian.

7. Job understood meat. People who have everything going right for them doubtful. You really can't see that? Trials, tribulations and uncomfortable circumstances is Christianity 101. IE living by the spirit and not the flesh is Christianity 101.

The peace of God surpasses all understanding... because the world will see us in hell and not understand why we are at peace.

"I am supporting the fact that life for the God fearing can be hell. This is the only chance God has to put us through trials and tribulations. He will use it. I tell God daily that I am no Job. I have not got the faith needed to endure what he did."

God does NOT give us problems or sickness...That is NOT part of 'life more abundantly! How could you even say God would hurt you?
James 1:13-14 CJB
13 No one being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, and God himself tempts no one. 14 Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire.

"We are not God that can presume to know His plan for our life. He may or may not want us to be rich. We need to learn to be content in Him, rich or poor."
You want to know God's plan for your life?
Jeremiah 29:11 (KJV)
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace (nothing missing nothing broken), and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

God's Word is full of His Will for you..

" I do not disagree with those scriptures. We just can't walk on a promise basis with God. We give, we then 'demand' He blesses / gives tenfold return. We should also see real blessings as treasure in heaven."
Why can we not walk on a promise basis with God? We are a covenant people, living with a covenant God...Covenant is worthless if nobody honors it...

Mother Theresa is a shining example of this scripture.

So why could you not be a shining example too?

 

[KingJ]

1. God does NOT give us problems or sickness...That is NOT part of 'life more abundantly! How could you even say God would hurt you?

James 1:13-14 CJB
13 No one being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, and God himself tempts no one. 14 Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire.

2. You want to know God's plan for your life?

Jeremiah 29:11 (KJV)
11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace (nothing missing nothing broken), and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

God's Word is full of His Will for you..

3. Why can we not walk on a promise basis with God? We are a covenant people, living with a covenant God...Covenant is worthless if nobody honors it...


4. So why could you not be a shining example too?

1. Actually God does. Problems is not God tempting us. Life more abundantly is not something the flesh revels in.

2. Not sure how Jer 29:11 is relevant. Paul is crystal clear in 2 Cor 11:24-29.

24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers,in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. 28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

3. We are new covenant, not old covenant. Under the old God was God, not a Father. God needed to counter balance the curse of the law with promises. Kind of like me asking you to mow my lawn with a promise of pay. Now, if we are mowing the lawn of our Father that we love and whom we know loves us...? The best example is a wife doing the dishes . When she was our helper we would pay her. No clean dishes, no pay. If she did the dishes, she could demand the promise we made to pay. Now, if we marry our helper.... Can any man hold his wife to this? Even if he pays her? :laugh:.

The Jews needed to be told that Israel was the land of MILK and HONEY or else they would NOT have followed Moses through the desert. A Christian should follow, even if it is the land of SAND and MUD.

 

[Ophel]

@KingJ

The truth is that the abundant life that comes with one walking in an intimate relationship with God in Christ is not a thing that the flesh only revels in. The whole person---body, soul and spirit enjoys His abundance!

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ

The truth is that the abundant life that comes with one walking in an intimate relationship with God in Christ is not a thing that the flesh only revels in. The whole person---body, soul and spirit enjoys His abundance!

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life comes not from the Father but from the world.

 

[Ophel]

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life comes not from the Father but from the world.

How silly! You are thinking it is sin to enjoy the benefits of knowing and oveying God?

How perverse.

 

[Bendito]

1. Actually God does. Problems is not God tempting us. Life more abundantly is not something the flesh revels in.

2. Not sure how Jer 29:11 is relevant. Paul is crystal clear in 2 Cor 11:24-29.

24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers,in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. 28 Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?

3. We are new covenant, not old covenant. Under the old God was God, not a Father. God needed to counter balance the curse of the law with promises. Kind of like me asking you to mow my lawn with a promise of pay. Now, if we are mowing the lawn of our Father that we love and whom we know loves us...? The best example is a wife doing the dishes . When she was our helper we would pay her. No clean dishes, no pay. If she did the dishes, she could demand the promise we made to pay. Now, if we marry our helper.... Can any man hold his wife to this? Even if he pays her? :laugh:.

The Jews needed to be told that Israel was the land of MILK and HONEY or else they would NOT have followed Moses through the desert. A Christian should follow, even if it is the land of SAND and MUD.

So Paul received a beating a couple times....Do you think he said 'God did this to me to teach me something' Not!
Who beat him? The Pharisees, the leaders of the Jews. Right?
What did Jesus say to the Pharisees?
John 8:44-45 (CJB)
44 You belong to your father, Satan, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. From the start he was a murderer, and he has never stood by the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is speaking in character; because he is a liar — indeed, the inventor of the lie! 45 But as for me, because I tell the truth you don’t believe me.
These Pharisees were following their father...It was not God who beat Paul but Satan, the father of the Pharisees...
Old Covenant? New Covenant? We are talking about God here..What did God say about Himself?
Malachi 3:6 (CJB) 6 “But because I, Adonai, do not change,you sons of Ya‘akov will not be destroyed
You cannot say that God hurt people in the Old Covenant just to teach them something any more than you can say that in the New Covenant....God does not change, nor does He change the way He works..
What's this about the curse? You say God made the curse?! How often does He mention the 'curse because of sin'? Who made the curse? Not God...Who initiated sin? Satan...
Ok Here is the curse.....The curse is the effect of sin. Period. So what are the effects of sin?

Romans 3: 10 - 18
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Romans 3: 23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6: 16
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 6: 23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 8: 34 - 36
34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Romans 7: 7 - 11
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

James 1: 13 - 15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

1 John 1: 8 - 10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Romans 3: 10 - 18
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Romans 3: 23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6: 16
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 6: 23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 8: 34 - 36
34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Romans 7: 7 - 11
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

James 1: 13 - 15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

1 John 1: 8 - 10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

There is a start for you....Study the curse a bit more if you will...You will see that the curse is NOT from God

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

1 John 2:16 For everything in the world the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life comes not from the Father but from the world.

Those are all things that have come to be more important to some one other then God. They have become a I got to have them at any cost. This scripture does not in any way come against Godly wealth.
God Bless
James W

 

[Bendito]

Those are all things that have come to be more important to some one other then God. They have become a I got to have them at any cost. This scripture does not in any way come against Godly wealth.
God Bless
James W

I wonder why 'sin consciousness' is more prevalent in Christians than 'righteousness consciousness' We seem to spend much more time thinking on our so called sinful nature than on the fact that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus..

 

[Ophel]

I wonder why 'sin consciousness' is more prevalent in Christians than 'righteousness consciousness' We seem to spend much more time thinking on our so called sinful nature than on the fact that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus..

I hear ya. I think this is so because far too many Christians are fixated on works for righteousness.

 

[Bendito]

I hear ya. I think this is so because far too many Christians are fixated on works for righteousness.

Bendito nods...

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I wonder why 'sin consciousness' is more prevalent in Christians than 'righteousness consciousness' We seem to spend much more time thinking on our so called sinful nature than on the fact that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus..

Brother that is way to easy - Scripture tells us we should not be this way - the devil says yea ya all should be this way............Do the math - where are these brethren getting this thinking from?

Same as walking in Love and Forgiveness..........to many of the brethren argue and have their own idea about who and what we should forgive as if they have a choice - No Sir - scripture says Forgive any or all ought against any or everyone. It is a command not a if ya wants to.....

Once you step out of the religious traditions handed down through the church generation after generation - you begin to see Gods word for what it really is. This is when Life gets GOOD !!
James W

 

[Bendito]

Brother that is way to easy - Scripture tells us we should not be this way - the devil says yea ya all should be this way............Do the math - where are these brethren getting this thinking from?

Same as walking in Love and Forgiveness..........to many of the brethren argue and have their own idea about who and what we should forgive as if they have a choice - No Sir - scripture says Forgive any or all ought against any or everyone. It is a command not a if ya wants to.....

Once you step out of the religious traditions handed down through the church generation after generation - you begin to see Gods word for what it really is. This is when Life gets GOOD !!
James W

Oh I like talk like that! Just as people choose to believe a lie before they will believe the truth...It's always a choice The Message bible gives it most clearly....

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (MSG)
9-12 The Anarchist’s coming is all Satan’s work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they’re banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions.

Sadly, its not only non Christians that refuse truth.....

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Oh I like talk like that! Just as people choose to believe a lie before they will believe the truth...It's always a choice The Message bible gives it most clearly....

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (MSG)
9-12 The Anarchist’s coming is all Satan’s work. All his power and signs and miracles are fake, evil sleight of hand that plays to the gallery of those who hate the truth that could save them. And since they’re so obsessed with evil, God rubs their noses in it—gives them what they want. Since they refuse to trust truth, they’re banished to their chosen world of lies and illusions.

Sadly, its not only non Christians that refuse truth.....

Exactly but lets be honest here. Lets not push this off on it is because it is the last days and this is when the deception starts. I am sure you have seen this brother - far to many Christians seem to fail to understand how the enemy works. Our enemy the devil has been busy 24\7\365 working and planting ugly weed seed.

Deception started a very long time ago. A little bit at a time. That is why so many christians can not even tell the difference for it all sounds good and sounds religious so it must be true. ( Gag -cough - puke )

Here are simply a couple of them that you see every day in these forums.
God sends bad things to teach us - God allowed it so it is what He wanted for us
Well it must be Gods will for me to be sick or poor or out of work. We just dont know why but God controls everything. Christians can not have money or things because that does not please God or make us humble. We have to be poor to stay humble and keep those worldly problems away............NO WAY MAN - THE DEVIL IS TRYING TO STARVE YOU TO DEATH. . lol and keep you from being productive and producing Fruit.

Ya know if we started a thread on the different deceptions of the devil - it would never end......
Life is Good when you know who you are in Christ and grasp that we do win but we still have to fight the good fight of faith........ far to many wimper and wine ohhhh poor me - why is this happening to me - ohhh life is so unfair.........well it would not be if you would incline your ears and eyes and mouth unto Gods word and ways.
Walk like God\Jesus - Talk like God\Jesus - Act like God\Jesus AND most of all Learn who you are in Christ and what Authority has already been given unto you - simply find out and learn how to make it all work.

Hmmm a bit off course but hey - you started it........... rofl
Blessing my Friend and Borther
James W

 

[KingJ]

So Paul received a beating a couple times....Do you think he said 'God did this to me to teach me something' Not!
Who beat him? The Pharisees, the leaders of the Jews. Right?
What did Jesus say to the Pharisees?
John 8:44-45 (CJB)
44 You belong to your father, Satan, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. From the start he was a murderer, and he has never stood by the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he is speaking in character; because he is a liar — indeed, the inventor of the lie! 45 But as for me, because I tell the truth you don’t believe me.
These Pharisees were following their father...It was not God who beat Paul but Satan, the father of the Pharisees...
Old Covenant? New Covenant? We are talking about God here..What did God say about Himself?
Malachi 3:6 (CJB) 6 “But because I, Adonai, do not change,you sons of Ya‘akov will not be destroyed
You cannot say that God hurt people in the Old Covenant just to teach them something any more than you can say that in the New Covenant....God does not change, nor does He change the way He works..
What's this about the curse? You say God made the curse?! How often does He mention the 'curse because of sin'? Who made the curse? Not God...Who initiated sin? Satan...
Ok Here is the curse.....The curse is the effect of sin. Period. So what are the effects of sin?

Romans 3: 10 - 18
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Romans 3: 23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6: 16
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 6: 23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 8: 34 - 36
34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Romans 7: 7 - 11
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

James 1: 13 - 15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

1 John 1: 8 - 10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Romans 3: 10 - 18
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips";
14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness."
15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known."
18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Romans 3: 23
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 6: 16
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 6: 23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 8: 34 - 36
34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 "And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 "Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Romans 7: 7 - 11
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

James 1: 13 - 15
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

1 John 1: 8 - 10
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

There is a start for you....Study the curse a bit more if you will...You will see that the curse is NOT from God

I think you are missing the fact that God did not help him escape the suffering and pain and poverty and all those other things....

Now if God did not miraculously intervene....was it because of a lack of faith on Paul's part? Or because it was His will not to always intervene? You telling me you can't see the rather humungous elephant in the room?

 

[Bendito]

I think you are missing the fact that God did not help him escape the suffering and pain and poverty and all those other things....

Now if God did not miraculously intervene....was it because of a lack of faith on Paul's part? Or because it was His will not to always intervene? You telling me you can't see the rather humungous elephant in the room?

One thing at a time...Who said Paul was in poverty? Paul said I've tried poverty and I've tried being rich...
Philippians 4:12-13 (CJB)
12 I know what it is to be in want, and I know what it is to have more than enough — in everything and in every way I have learned the secret of being full and being hungry, of having abundance and being in need. 13 I can do all things through him who gives me power.
This does not say Paul was poor at this time.....He is saying that in either state the secret is...I can do all things....
Now the second....Where does it say that Paul asked God to deliver him from any torment save that thorn...and God gave him the way out of that one. Of course Paul went through those things, and if you continue pushing forward putting Jesus first and working to see others saved, you too may experience such things....Of course! Why should Paul have been spared that if even Jesus was not? Its sometimes the price we pay to get people saved, just like Jesus did....
The third thing....
ELEPHANT?! WHAT ELEPHANT?! :laugh: Don't complicate things my friend.

 

[KingJ]

1. God sends bad things to teach us - God allowed it so it is what He wanted for us
2. Well it must be Gods will for me to be sick or poor or out of work. We just dont know why but God controls everything. 3. Christians can not have money or things because that does not please God or make us humble.
4. We have to be poor to stay humble and keep those worldly problems away............
5. NO WAY MAN - THE DEVIL IS TRYING TO STARVE YOU TO DEATH. . lol and keep you from being productive and producing Fruit.
6. Life is Good when you know who you are in Christ and grasp that we do win but we still have to fight the good fight of faith........ far to many wimper and wine ohhhh poor me - why is this happening to me - ohhh life is so unfair.........well it would not be if you would incline your ears and eyes and mouth unto Gods word and ways.

7. Walk like God\Jesus - Talk like God\Jesus - Act like God\Jesus

8. AND most of all Learn who you are in Christ and what Authority has already been given unto you - simply find out and learn how to make it all work.

1. Yes He does. It is for our own good too. We need to be sure that we actually love God. Are you proposing that God did not send the devil to Adam and Eve?

2. Well, yes. God does control everything. Especially for us. Christianity 101 = giving Him full authority over our lives, to do with as He wishes. If we are poor after judging ourselves to not be lazy...it is God's will.

3. Within reason. Modesty is Christianity 101.

4. Being poor definitely reveals what is in the heart. Better for God to put us through that now and expose our empty and wicked heart to us then have is in hell for eternity don't you think.

5. I think you would win many to the Lord if they saw you still serving ''God of the universe'' when He was starving you to death.

6. I pray for the day that you will see it is not about being victorious and winning. We know we are children of God of the universe on DAY ONE. We don't need to keep waving that flag of power and victory. We need to focus on humility and as Paul says being weak with the weak to reach the weak. Life down here is NOT ABOUT YOU AND I! It is about the complications involved in getting someone to actually love God for who He is and not for what He brings to the relationship!! We are not timeshare salesman.

7. That sounds like brainwashing.

8. My bible tells me that ''I will make it work for myself'' in heaven. Down here on this planet, God has only God 70 years to reach me and use me to reach others.

 

[KingJ]

1. Paul said I've tried poverty and I've tried being rich.

This does not say Paul was poor at this time.....He is saying that in either state the secret is...I can do all things....

2. Now the second....Where does it say that Paul asked God to deliver him from any torment save that thorn...and God gave him the way out of that one.

3. Of course Paul went through those things, and if you continue pushing forward putting Jesus first and working to see others saved, you too may experience such things....Of course! Why should Paul have been spared that if even Jesus was not? Its sometimes the price we pay to get people saved, just like Jesus did....

4. The third thing....ELEPHANT?! WHAT ELEPHANT?!:laugh:.

1. Paul did not try anything. Like Job he endured the hell that hit him. No matter what it was.

2. I think it should be obvious that if a storm is about to hit you and cause a shipwreck, you ask God to spare you the uncomfortable / frustrating scenario.

3. You would say that we will only endure persecutions from evil men / satan? Remember God has us with these evil men and He can do anything. The secret is that He is with us in the uncomfortable to the flesh situation that He places us in for reasons we may not always (if ever in this lifetime) understand.

4. Really can't see it? There are a couple in fact. 1. Thinking persecution is momentary. When it is your whole life. 2. Thinking God of the universe needs your faith when He has your heart. I could go on all day.

 

[KingJ]

I wonder why 'sin consciousness' is more prevalent in Christians than 'righteousness consciousness' We seem to spend much more time thinking on our so called sinful nature than on the fact that we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus..

Because our God given brains and the Holy Spirits conviction make us sin conscious. The devil on the other hand wants us all to think we are en route to heaven. Judge our state in Christ according to our prosperity and health VS our hatred for what is evil.

 

[Bendito]

1. Yes He does. It is for our own good too. We need to be sure that we actually love God. Are you proposing that God did not send the devil to Adam and Eve?

2. Well, yes. God does control everything. Especially for us. Christianity 101 = giving Him full authority over our lives, to do with as He wishes. If we are poor after judging ourselves to not be lazy...it is God's will.

3. Within reason. Modesty is Christianity 101.

4. Being poor definitely reveals what is in the heart. Better for God to put us through that now and expose our empty and wicked heart to us then have is in hell for eternity don't you think.

5. I think you would win many to the Lord if they saw you still serving ''God of the universe'' when He was starving you to death.

6. I pray for the day that you will see it is not about being victorious and winning. We know we are children of God of the universe on DAY ONE. We don't need to keep waving that flag of power and victory. We need to focus on humility and as Paul says being weak with the weak to reach the weak. Life down here is NOT ABOUT YOU AND I! It is about the complications involved in getting someone to actually love God for who He is and not for what He brings to the relationship!! We are not timeshare salesman.

7. That sounds like brainwashing.

8. My bible tells me that ''I will make it work for myself'' in heaven. Down here on this planet, God has only God 70 years to reach me and use me to reach others.

So KingJ Do you beat your kids? Just to teach them something I mean.. And do you tell them what you want them to learn? I only ask this because when God breaks your arm He never tells you what He wants you to learn.

How does that work, that God is in control? Didn't He put us in charge.."And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." I guess He was just joking right? We surrender our wills to Him all right and He shows us what we should do...But He does not control us, does He?
You said " If we are poor after judging ourselves to not be lazy...it is God's will. " Please show me scripture for this....I've shown you, and others have shown you lots of scripture for the opposite..That God wants us prosperous.

You said "Being poor definitely reveals what is in the heart." Yup it does...
We can start with being stressed because poverty and stress go hand in hand..chronic stress makes many susceptible to cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, depression and diabetes,
Developmental disabilities, Learning disabilities, Intellectual disabilities, adults inpoverty show higher level of Withdrawal Symptoms, Somatic Complaints (physical symptoms), thought Problems (i.e. pervasive negative thinking, Adults are often impacted by worry & anxiety about what to do
Children are impacted by feelings of helplessness & lack of control and the list goes on and on including depression, despondency, despair..All of which are the opposite of Faith, hope and godly strength.

And you're saying that this is what God wants for His children? Hmmm Yeah we can replace all that empty and wicked hearts in us with all the other stuff I just mentioned...Not to mention, rejection from other more prosperous Christians, ignored, frowned upon, treated like lesser creatures, all of which Christians are guilty of all the time.

You said "I think you would win many to the Lord if they saw you still serving ''God of the universe'' when He was starving you to death." Its obvious by this that you do not know the Gospel that Jesus came to teach...Luke 4:17-19 (CJB)
17 and he was given the scroll of the prophet Yesha‘yahu. Unrolling the scroll, he found the place where it was written,

18 “The Spirit of Adonai is upon me;
therefore he has anointed me
to announce Good News to the poor; (you don't have to be poor anymore)
he has sent me to proclaim freedom for the imprisoned (I've come to set you free)
and renewed sight for the blind, (You can see now)
to release those who have been crushed, (Restoration is yours)
19 to proclaim a year of the favor of Adonai.


Isaiah 61:1-3 (CJB)
61 The Spirit of Adonai Elohim is upon me,
because Adonai has anointed me
to announce good news to the poor.
He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted;
to proclaim freedom to the captives,
to let out into light those bound in the dark;
2 to proclaim the year of the favor of Adonai
and the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all who mourn,
3 yes, provide for those in Tziyon who mourn,
giving them garlands (Joy instead of ashes),
the oil of gladness instead of mourning,
a cloak of praise instead of a heavy spirit,
so that they will be called oaks of righteousness
planted by Adonai, in which he takes pride.

People don't want what you have if all you have is pain and sorrow...

You said "I pray for the day that you will see it is not about being victorious and winning. We know we are children of God of the universe on DAY ONE. We don't need to keep waving that flag of power and victory. We need to focus on humility and as Paul says being weak with the weak to reach the weak. Life down here is NOT ABOUT YOU AND I! It is about the complications involved in getting someone to actually love God for who He is and not for what He brings to the relationship!! We are not timeshare salesman."

Sorry dear friend...That's all blat...There is NO scripture to back this up... Poverty does not cause humility any more than prosperity..... the thing that produces humility is GRATEFULNESS. If you develop a sense of 'everything you have or get is from a loving Father and develop a grateful spirit, you will be humble. Anything else is fake.

You said "
7. That sounds like brainwashing.

8. My bible tells me that ''I will make it work for myself'' in heaven. Down here on this planet, God has only God 70 years to reach me and use me to reach others.

You will make what work? You will? I thought you said its God who does it in you? God has given you 120 years why limit Him at 70?

 

[Ophel]

Because our God given brains and the Holy Spirits conviction make us sin conscious. The devil on the other hand wants us all to think we are en route to heaven. Judge our state in Christ according to our prosperity and health VS our hatred for what is evil.

When Holy Spirit leads and anoints a person, that person is no longer sin conscious, but Christ-conscious.

Romans 5:1 - we are at peace with God through Jesus Christ!
Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - Our sin is removed and we now have Christ's righteousness!
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Therefore, when we fail, we no longer need to suffer the consciousness of it, nor do we suffer condemnation or even feel badly, because we are conscious of who we are in Christ. Because of that, we are able in Christ to pick ourselves up, let Him dust us off and we can continue in our walk with Him, never looking back.

When you fall, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God! ~ Joseph Prince


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