Worldly gain vs godliness

[Ophel]

Divorcing one aspect from prosperity is rejecting the true prosperity of God. Material or financial supply is a promise and when you cut it out, you reveal a lack of trust and belief in the word.

Knowing and walking with God opens up one's life to His promise of prosperity in all aspects. Open up!

 

[Bendito]

We can learn a lot from this. I would like to go into further detail on them. But it will be too long a reply. The bottom line with all OT promises is simply that they were to the Jews. We have to understand that God had to dangle promises in front of them or else they would not care about obeying His law. As I have already said ''promised land of MILK nad HONEY''. Or as you have quoted ''I will open up the windows of heaven if you tithe''. We are not Jews. We are not super Jews.

This is John greeting Gauis. It is a typical line given to a king.

Sufficiency is to be taken care of. Not prosper.

I am truly shocked that you think this has anything to do with earthly prosperity. Jesus gave His life for us.....so that we can financially prosper........? It is talking about spiritual prosperity.
If you read the whole chapter you will see that Jesus is talking about blessings He will give us in heaven, example: vs 23
Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

The only verses that apply to being rich and prosperous in this chapter are these: Vs 24 & 25

24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.

.

We can learn a lot from this. I would like to go into further detail on them. But it will be too long a reply. The bottom line with all OT promises is simply that they were to the Jews. We have to understand that God had to dangle promises in front of them or else they would not care about obeying His law. As I have already said ''promised land of MILK nad HONEY''. Or as you have quoted ''I will open up the windows of heaven if you tithe''. We are not Jews. We are not super Jews.

Wrong!
Galatians 3:28-29 (CJB)
28 there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor freeman, neither male nor female; for in union with the Messiah Yeshua, you are all one. 29 Also, if you belong to the Messiah, you are seed of Avraham and heirs according to the promise.

The promise belongs to us as much as it belongs to the Jews.

And lest mine own answer be too long.....
2 Corinthians 1:18-22 (CJB)
18 As surely as God is trustworthy, we don’t say “Yes” when we mean “No.” 19 For the Son of God, the Messiah Yeshua, who was proclaimed among you through us — that is, through me and Sila and Timothy — was not a yes-and-no man; on the contrary, with him it is always “Yes!” 20 For however many promises God has made, they all find their “Yes” in connection with him; that is why it is through him that we say the “Amen” when we give glory to God. 21 Moreover, it is God who sets both us and you in firm union with the Messiah; he has anointed us, 22 put his seal on us, and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee for the future.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

What oversight do you come under? I am not going to disagree with you. Church attendance and oversight is very important. I attend an Assemblies of God church and have 4 elders that have been devout Christians for 30-40 years. They have corrected many beliefs of mine that I brought in. I used to believe a lot like you. We can be forgiven for our disagreements. They are so popular. All Christians are discussing the same issues and both sides have their scriptures. That is why I always try encourage some simple common sense and impeccable logic into discussions. For me a belief must pass a sanity test.

Example: Expecting God to want us all to be rich is clearly madness. Can't be true. There are many deformed people unable to even get work but they love Jesus. Many persecuted at work their whole lives for being Christians. Unable to get promoted or anything. The list goes on and on. The belief you have chosen is simply not realistic / sane. Everything will be A ok in heaven. Not here. Here, if God does not deliver us, He is with us in our suffering.

Brother then may I suggest something to you ? Pray and find out if this church is where God wants you and if NOT then please I urge you to run like you need to be some place yesterday! I dont care how many years these folks have in the church or being saved or what have ya Brother - They are seriously leading yo down a wrong one way path to destruction.........I mean no disrespect to these men but come on brother - any one who teaches you to use that much human thinking in Gods word has No Clue in what they are saying.

Run boy run !! ..............OBTW we dont work to be rich - we dont get rich on our own - It is the Blessing that maketh you rich and adds no sorrow to it.
Any way - Brother know you are loved very much and I do not hold anything against you -
God Bless my friend
James W

 

[KingJ]

Brother then may I suggest something to you ? Pray and find out if this church is where God wants you and if NOT then please I urge you to run like you need to be some place yesterday! I dont care how many years these folks have in the church or being saved or what have ya Brother - They are seriously leading yo down a wrong one way path to destruction.........I mean no disrespect to these men but come on brother - any one who teaches you to use that much human thinking in Gods word has No Clue in what they are saying.

Run boy run !! ..............OBTW we dont work to be rich - we dont get rich on our own - It is the Blessing that maketh you rich and adds no sorrow to it.
Any way - Brother know you are loved very much and I do not hold anything against you -
God Bless my friend
James W

Lol Jim. I see the prosperity and faith movement as satanism in the church and you want me to run to it? I would sooner run to a Catholic church. Please you need to listen properly to my arguments against your belief. They are valid. Good Christians like yourselves are falling into a trap of the devil. It is a belief system that pushes pride and self righteous judgment of other Christians. It is making you all bad people when you are not. It is causing you to think you are in the spirit when in fact you are in the flesh.

 

[KingJ]

Knowing and walking with God opens up one's life to His promise of prosperity in all aspects. Open up!

Actually not. It opens us up to being taking care of and prosperity in heaven. Christianity 101 is giving God control of our lives to do with as He pleases. When we imagine receiving prosperity here from God in a promise fashion, how exactly are we not living for ourselves.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Lol Jim. I see the prosperity and faith movement as satanism in the church and you want me to run to it? I would sooner run to a Catholic church. Please you need to listen properly to my arguments against your belief. They are valid. Good Christians like yourselves are falling into a trap of the devil. It is a belief system that pushes pride and self righteous judgment of other Christians. It is making you all bad people when you are not. It is causing you to think you are in the spirit when in fact you are in the flesh. The faith taught is very carnal faith.

KJ first of all no one is talking about any movement or any other thing you might want to claim.
Second everything that has been said to you is right out of Gods written word.

Now then you are always claiming carnal this and carnal that when it comes to the ways of God. The only carnal brother is your thinking. You use your own understanding to figure out things and then push it as Gods ways. Look around brother - every where you go you run into this same wall....

You claim things that actually go against Gods written word and bring scripture with a human understanding and expect it to work. It can not work KJ - I love you brother I really do and this is why I am saying this........let go of your understanding and allow God to teach you. No where in scripture does it tells us to use common sense but you claim we must.....

Blessings my friend
James W

 

[Ophel]

In the true Church of Jesus Christ, there is no "movement" called prosperity or faith. In the Body if Christ, we walk in faith and enjoy the blessing of a prosperous life, according to the many promises of God to the faithful.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Actually not. It opens us up to being taking care of and prosperity in heaven. Christianity 101 is giving God control of our lives to do with as He pleases. When we imagine receiving prosperity here from God in a promise fashion, how exactly are we not living for ourselves.

Kj this does not even make any sense. His will for all man is His word bro. So to take God at His word ( promise) is living for our selves ?

 

[KingJ]

You claim things that actually go against Gods written word and bring scripture with a human understanding and expect it to work. It can not work KJ - I love you brother I really do and this is why I am saying this........let go of your understanding and allow God to teach you. No where in scripture does it tells us to use common sense but you claim we must.....

Lol Jim. Really? I quote nothing but scripture. I have exposed cherry picking by you guys on this thread.

God is against us using the brains He gave us? Paul would harshly disagree with you 1 Cor 11:31. Please also see the 'judging' thread.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

In the true Church if Jesus Christ, there is no "movement" called prosperity or faith. In the Body if Christ, we walk in faith and enjoy the blessing of a prosperous life, according to the many promises of God to the faithful.

Not to mention the entire written word of God is about FAITH........

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Lol Jim. Really? I quote nothing but scripture. I have exposed cherry picking by you guys on this thread.

God is against us using the brains He gave us? Paul would harshly disagree with you 1 Cor 11:31. Please also see the 'judging' thread.

ROFL really this is your aregument here ? Judging our selves by His word. That is a far cry from using human reasoning to understand His ways....

I did not claim that you dont bring scripture - I said you bring scripture with human reasoning and understanding -

 

[Ophel]

Actually not. It opens us up to being taking care of and prosperity in heaven. Christianity 101 is giving God control of our lives to do with as He pleases. When we imagine receiving prosperity here from God in a promise fashion, how exactly are we not living for ourselves.

Actually, yes. Yours is a false, pseudo-religious view. God's many promises He desires to fulfill in the lives of the faithful is prosperity in all areas---in the here and now.


Mark 10:29-30
“Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Good News, 30 will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life.


2 Corinthians 9:8
And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others.



.

 

[Ophel]

Lol Jim. Really? I quote nothing but scripture. I have exposed cherry picking by you guys on this thread.

God is against us using the brains He gave us? Paul would harshly disagree with you 1 Cor 11:31. Please also see the 'judging' thread.

Yes, He is against people relying on their intellect (flesh) to the exclusion of following the lead of the Holy Spirit in His attempts to illuminate the truths of His word to their hearts and minds.


.

 

[KingJ]

Kj this does not even make any sense. His will for all man is His word bro. So to take God at His word ( promise) is living for our selves ?

and His word says ''If you try find your life you will lose it, but if you lose it for His sake, you will find it''.

Now how convenient it is that your idea of losing your life.....is being in carnal prosperity and having a very rosy life.

What exactly did you give up? Would you really follow Jesus through hell and back? You guys are terrible with your insinuations that any in sickness or poverty are lessor Christians.

With that I am done discussing with you here Jim. I am just going to respond to Bendito.

As I have said before, our next discussion on this is a formal debate between you and I. Bendito and I are making some progress toward something like that here, but it is being clouded with yours and Ophels contributions.

 

[Ophel]

and His word says ''If you try find your life you will lose it, but if you lose it for His sake, you will find it''.

Now how convenient it is that your idea of losing your life.....is being in carnal prosperity and having a very rosy life.

What exactly did you give up? Would you really follow Jesus through hell and back? You guys are terrible with your insinuations that any in sickness or poverty are lessor Christians.

With that I am done discussing with you here Jim. I am just going to respond to Bendito.

As I have said before, our next discussion on this is a formal debate between you and I. Bendito and I are making some progress toward something like that here, but it is being clouded with yours and Ophels contributions.

Kingdom prosperity is not carnal.

Your contributions always add a cloud of confusion.


/

 

[KingJ]

Mark 10:29-30
“Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Good News, 30 will receive now in return a hundred times as many houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life.


2 Corinthians 9:8
And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others..

Please follow the discussion between Bendito and myself. I have already addressed the first verse.

The second.....really Ophel? You think Jesus is ever referring to money in your bank for the tenth pair of shoes when He says you will have everything you need. Sufficiency is scriptural. Prosperity is a maybe. Depends on Him needing us to reach the rich.

This is the prayer a Christian should pray on prosperity Prov 30:8 ''Keep falsehood and lies far from me; give me neither poverty nor riches, but give me only my daily bread''.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

and His word says ''If you try find your life you will lose it, but if you lose it for His sake, you will find it''.

Now how convenient it is that your idea of losing your life.....is being in carnal prosperity and having a very rosy life.

What exactly did you give up? Would you really follow Jesus through hell and back? You guys are terrible with your insinuations that any in sickness or poverty are lessor Christians.

With that I am done discussing with you here Jim. I am just going to respond to Bendito.

As I have said before, our next discussion on this is a formal debate between you and I. Bendito and I are making some progress toward something like that here, but it is being clouded with yours and Ophels contributions.[/QUOT

and His word says ''If you try find your life you will lose it, but if you lose it for His sake, you will find it''.

Now how convenient it is that your idea of losing your life.....is being in carnal prosperity and having a very rosy life.

What exactly did you give up? Would you really follow Jesus through hell and back? You guys are terrible with your insinuations that any in sickness or poverty are lessor Christians.

With that I am done discussing with you here Jim. I am just going to respond to Bendito.

As I have said before, our next discussion on this is a formal debate between you and I. Bendito and I are making some progress toward something like that here, but it is being clouded with yours and Ophels contributions.

No your not done bro - Brother Bendito is talking about the same faith and everything else.
Now to answer your question
You loose yourlife by giving up the fleshly or worldly ways - you follow Jesus or another words you let God change you.

OBTW KJ I went and asked both of them to join me in here the last time you said you wont talk to me.
Shall I bring more in ? lol
Come on KJ - stop pouting already. lol

 

[KingJ]

Kingdom prosperity is not carnal.

Your contributions always add a cloud of confusion.


/

Ok Ophel, whatever makes you happy. Don't expect me to reply to or Jim. I am just going to address Bendito's arguments.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Ok Ophel, whatever makes you happy. Don't expect me to reply to or Jim. I am just going to address Bendito's arguments.

LIke I said KJ - I went and asked both ophal and brother bendito to join me in this thread the last time you refused to talk to me. Do I need to go get more ? Why is it I asked them KJ ?

 

[KingJ]

OBTW KJ I went and asked both of them to join me in here the last time you said you wont talk to me.
Shall I bring more in ? lol
Come on KJ - stop pouting already. lol

I am sure you will find many Jim. Popularity is meaningless. Anyway, I am just trying to avoid an ugly argument between you and I Jim. Which I am sure we can both agree is rather difficult on this sensitive topic .

I will be sure to quote my posts going forward and not repeat myself. Thanks for the heads up.