Word of Faith.....Again

[Wired 4 Fishen]

This quote was written in a reply in this thread. I dont know about any of you but I sure would like to dig into this and prove this claim true or false. Any takers ?

(((Here is a short excerpt - "A favorite term in the Word of Faith movement is “positive confession.” This refers to the teaching that words themselves have creative power. What you say, Word of Faith teachers claim, determines everything that happens to you. Your confessions, especially the favors you demand of God, must all be stated positively and without wavering. Then God is required to answer (as though man could require anything of God!). Thus, God's ability to bless us supposedly hangs on our faith.")))))

The quoted text that is underlined is an exzaggeration is not correctly stated to begin with.

So will any of you be willing to join in and find Gods truth in this ?
Blessings
James

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@RJ and @Bendito and @JohnP

To those who seem to constantly use " we were given a measure of Faith" as a solid answer - this is true but Very incomplete to say the least and here is why or THE REST OF THE STORY............

Romans 12:3 and 1John5:1-5 and Epphesians 2:8 and Romans 10:6-17 these all reveal that THE FAITH OF GOD comes with being born again. Every beleiver Has The Saame Measure Of Faith. It was THE INCORRUPTIBLE SEED - THE WORD OF GOD - by which we were BORN OF THE SPIRIT !!

Now then with that said remembering that every beleiver has the same measure of faith -
The only difference between JESUS , You and Me is the LEVEL of which our FAITH has been Developed.

Every natural baby baby is born with the same number of muscles. The only difference between the strength of a 6 month old and a 1 year old child, is muscle development. The same is TRUE with SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

1Peter 2:2
as new born babes, desire the sincere milk of THE WORD, that ye may grow thereby.

Spiritual growth DOES NOT come with the passing of time. A person may have been born again and a regular with the church for 40 years and still be a BABY.

Hebrews 12:2 Tells us that JESUS is the Author and Finisher and the Perfector and Developer OF OUR FAITH
So UNLESS you build up your most Holy Faith in Gods Word - you are running on empty and without power or victories.

God Bless
James

 

[Bendito]

@RJ and @Bendito and @JohnP

To those who seem to constantly use " we were given a measure of Faith" as a solid answer - this is true but Very incomplete to say the least and here is why or THE REST OF THE STORY............

Romans 12:3 and 1John5:1-5 and Epphesians 2:8 and Romans 10:6-17 these all reveal that THE FAITH OF GOD comes with being born again. Every beleiver Has The Saame Measure Of Faith. It was THE INCORRUPTIBLE SEED - THE WORD OF GOD - by which we were BORN OF THE SPIRIT !!

Now then with that said remembering that every beleiver has the same measure of faith -
The only difference between JESUS , You and Me is the LEVEL of which our FAITH has been Developed.

Every natural baby baby is born with the same number of muscles. The only difference between the strength of a 6 month old and a 1 year old child, is muscle development. The same is TRUE with SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

1Peter 2:2
as new born babes, desire the sincere milk of THE WORD, that ye may grow thereby.

Spiritual growth DOES NOT come with the passing of time. A person may have been born again and a regular with the church for 40 years and still be a BABY.

Hebrews 12:2 Tells us that JESUS is the Author and Finisher and the Perfector and Developer OF OUR FAITH
So UNLESS you build up your most Holy Faith in Gods Word - you are running on empty and without power or victories.

God Bless
James

James I do have to contest one thing in this post...'By grace are you saved, through faith,....In order to be saved one must have faith to start with..By faith are you saved....By faith are you saved.....Without faith, I cannot be saved...So then, each must be given the measure of faith before he is born again, not as a result.
Other than this one point I can agree with you. Faith is like a muscle, it needs to be developed..Faith is like a seed. Plant it! It'll grow! Huge oak trees started out as acorns..

 

[amadeus2]

What you say, Word of Faith teachers claim, determines everything that happens to you. Your confessions, especially the favors you demand of God, must all be stated positively and without wavering. Then God is required to answer (as though man could require anything of God!). Thus, God's ability to bless us supposedly hangs on our faith.")))))

The quoted text that is underlined is an exzaggeration is not correctly stated to begin with.

So will any of you be willing to join in and find Gods truth in this ?
Blessings
James

Is God's truth something that can be found simply by digging and studying scripture? What about the leading of the Holy Spirit?

If we ask "amiss" will our words stated "positively without wavering" obtain what we want or will they accomplish the will of God according to where our heart is with Him?

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

 

[B-A-C]

Is God's truth something that can be found simply by digging and studying scripture? What about the leading of the Holy Spirit?

I think it has to be both. There are a great many "prophets and teachers" who claim to
have word from the Holy Spirit. Yet what they say disagrees with the Bible. The Holy Spirit
will never disagree with the word. How do you know what the word says without studying it?

Some of the truths of the Bible are hidden in parables, metaphors and revelation by the
Spirit, but much of the Bible (I would say the majority) is simply taken as written in black
and white. Do not kill. Do not steal. Do not lie. How much spiritual revelation do you need
to understand that?

 

[Brighthouse]

The Word of faith movement!! Let's talk about someone personal who came from the Word of faith movement!!! ME!!! LOL The beginning was a wonderful dream!! They taught me how important the Word of God is to use daily!! They taught me to stay in the Word daily! And they taught me that all the promises of God are indeed YES!!!! and AMEN!!( 2 Cor 1:20-21!!) Teaching The Word over matters, not mind over matters.So far so good!! Around 1984 the third wave of the charismatic movement was complete! I was in this wave!

To understand this 3rd wave movement, one must understand how the word charismatic should be defined. The Word came way back in 1902,a group of people that believed the church was binding up the Spirit of God in there churches so much so, that they left many of there regular churches to form a movement which did not any longer bind Holy Spirit to man made programs such as we have in many churches.

Sing a couple of hymns, here a sermon, take an offering, sing another hymn, then go home.In 1961 the Catholic Church was looking to take credit for the second wave of this movement, but in reality the lutheran Church was primarly responsible for so many unhappy believers in there Church, they began the second wave.By 1984 the third, and so far final wave was taking place,and this third wave can from many assemblies of God and Pentecostal backrounds of every kind as well as many other including,and this may surprise many Baptist!! LOL

Now the third wave were not mixed up in any way with the Word of faith movement at the start! But later enjoyed much of what the Word of faith movement was heading in ones relationship in Jesus personal to the believer! I was one of them! The third wave never met in building,we met in peoples home, coping what Acts 2:42-47 in every degree possible.We did grow daily,and so large did we become, that we began to have cell groups within the Church structure. as many as 12 to 20 per cell group. this movement dealt very much in discipleship,and Godly order!( 1 Cor 14:40)

We started to hear the word of Kenneth Hagin,and Kenneth Copland, and Joyce Myers joined the band wagon soon afterwards, along with many,and the Word of faith movement is to this day one of the most powerful and yes dangerous movements in our church today!

But how did they become so dangerous,when it seemed like so much good was coming from it?? they began to take scripture out of content,you are god's, you have the power of God, even as Jesus said that you would have and one of so many scriptures that was dinged on the most was this!( Rom 4:17-18) They would say, see we are descendants!!!

They proclaimed what a friend of mine like's to say. Name it, claim it,blab it, grab it. lol And you know what?? It worked to!! LOL

But then one year after I had totally got wrapped up in self,because indeed this doctrine looks to do that,and call all others non believers,or weak in there faith, as an excuse to have such a high opinion of yourself. I had a great fall! To long to go into,but I really fell hard! So hard was my fall, I took the Word of God and threw in the trash can,and left the faith for 8 long years afterwards!

Only because of the Lord's wonderful grace and mercy upon me, did I return to the fold,and start all over again! But this time, my foundation was not upon faith,but rather upon love!! 1Cor 12:31 is not in the Word of faith songbook, nor in there message.I will show you a more excellent way!( 1 Cor 13:1!!!) Faith makes a great noise,but has no lasting result,LOVE does both! Love does not think more highly of itself then it ought to think( rom 12:3)

Faith can boast! hence why faith is so popular! Love does not look to play God!( Isaiah 42:8)And we are witnesses not creators!!!( Isaiah 43:10!!!) before ME there is NO GOD formed, and there will be NONE after me!!! What a difference in mindset!! They measure there faith by wealth,Paul must not have received the message!!!( 1 Cor 4:10-16!!!) never saw the word of faith ever come near this series of verses!! LOL verse 11????Homeless?? a believer???? The great difference my brother,sister is not in a boast,but rather in the result of who is doing the teaching!!!( 1 John 2:27!!)

I know many who are in the word of faith now will be like I was,and never even look to understand this,I didn't either! I was just like what the prophet Isaiah stated in Matt 13:14-15! It really and truly takes Holy Spirit himself!!! And then Holy Spirit will say this to you!!( Matt 13:16-17!!) Rev 3:8 because you have a little power! verse 9 comes very close to the Word of faith movement! Rev 3:10-13!!!!!! May you all be and stay blessed through our most Loving Jesus!!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Is God's truth something that can be found simply by digging and studying scripture? What about the leading of the Holy Spirit?

If we ask "amiss" will our words stated "positively without wavering" obtain what we want or will they accomplish the will of God according to where our heart is with Him?

"Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts." James 4:3

The Holy Spirit my friend is the one who teaches you and enables you to receive spiritual understanding in the first place. So I will answer your question with a question - How can you study and dig into Gods word with out the leading of the Holy Spirit ?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

James I do have to contest one thing in this post...'By grace are you saved, through faith,....In order to be saved one must have faith to start with..By faith are you saved....By faith are you saved.....Without faith, I cannot be saved...So then, each must be given the measure of faith before he is born again, not as a result.
Other than this one point I can agree with you. Faith is like a muscle, it needs to be developed..Faith is like a seed. Plant it! It'll grow! Huge oak trees started out as acorns..

I challenge you Brother Bendito to truly seek God in this and find out what this By Faith really means.
I beleive you are getting hung up with the word Faith. Every one has some kind of faith brother. Unsaved use faith all the time - it is simply not biblical faith.

When you got born again - how many lawyers did you have with you to read the contract of this new covenant with God and did you record this signing of your name in the lambs book of life ? Are you sure it is there ? Did your lawyers guarantee you a ticket to heaven with a money back promise ?

NO sir you simply choose to beleive you are. You take Gods word for what it says other wise the person who is seconds from stepping out infront of the train cries out I dont even know if you are real or not but if you are please forgive me and take my life and fix it. GOD jumps and moves right then and there brother. I know of many who got born again in a very like wise manner.
Blessings
James

 

[Bendito]

I challenge you Brother Bendito to truly seek God in this and find out what this By Faith really means.
I beleive you are getting hung up with the word Faith. Every one has some kind of faith brother. Unsaved use faith all the time - it is simply not biblical faith.

When you got born again - how many lawyers did you have with you to read the contract of this new covenant with God and did you record this signing of your name in the lambs book of life ? Are you sure it is there ? Did your lawyers guarantee you a ticket to heaven with a money back promise ?

NO sir you simply choose to beleive you are. You take Gods word for what it says other wise the person who is seconds from stepping out infront of the train cries out I dont even know if you are real or not but if you are please forgive me and take my life and fix it. GOD jumps and moves right then and there brother. I know of many who got born again in a very like wise manner.
Blessings
James

"Unsaved use faith all the time - it is simply not biblical faith."
Ah James An unsaved can only trust the Father for salvation....That's the faith of Jesus, not of a man.
Hmmmm Not sure there are any lawyers in heaven..LOL Not true there...
All I did was to trust God to save me..And He did...As I said though, it was not my faith but the faith of Jesus that He gave me. Romans 3:21-22 (CJB)
21 But now, quite apart from Torah, God’s way of making people righteous in his sight has been made clear — although the Torah and the Prophets give their witness to it as well — 22 and it is a righteousness that comes from God, through the faithfulness of Yeshua the Messiah, to all who continue trusting. For it makes no difference whether one is a Jew or a Gentile,...
Faithfullness....faithful...faith..full Cool!

 

[KingJ]

The Word of faith movement!! Let's talk about someone personal who came from the Word of faith movement!!! ME!!! LOL The beginning was a wonderful dream!! They taught me how important the Word of God is to use daily!! They taught me to stay in the Word daily! And they taught me that all the promises of God are indeed YES!!!! and AMEN!!( 2 Cor 1:20-21!!) Teaching The Word over matters, not mind over matters.So far so good!! Around 1984 the third wave of the charismatic movement was complete! I was in this wave!

To understand this 3rd wave movement, one must understand how the word charismatic should be defined. The Word came way back in 1902,a group of people that believed the church was binding up the Spirit of God in there churches so much so, that they left many of there regular churches to form a movement which did not any longer bind Holy Spirit to man made programs such as we have in many churches.

Sing a couple of hymns, here a sermon, take an offering, sing another hymn, then go home.In 1961 the Catholic Church was looking to take credit for the second wave of this movement, but in reality the lutheran Church was primarly responsible for so many unhappy believers in there Church, they began the second wave.By 1984 the third, and so far final wave was taking place,and this third wave can from many assemblies of God and Pentecostal backrounds of every kind as well as many other including,and this may surprise many Baptist!! LOL

Now the third wave were not mixed up in any way with the Word of faith movement at the start! But later enjoyed much of what the Word of faith movement was heading in ones relationship in Jesus personal to the believer! I was one of them! The third wave never met in building,we met in peoples home, coping what Acts 2:42-47 in every degree possible.We did grow daily,and so large did we become, that we began to have cell groups within the Church structure. as many as 12 to 20 per cell group. this movement dealt very much in discipleship,and Godly order!( 1 Cor 14:40)

We started to hear the word of Kenneth Hagin,and Kenneth Copland, and Joyce Myers joined the band wagon soon afterwards, along with many,and the Word of faith movement is to this day one of the most powerful and yes dangerous movements in our church today!

But how did they become so dangerous,when it seemed like so much good was coming from it?? they began to take scripture out of content,you are god's, you have the power of God, even as Jesus said that you would have and one of so many scriptures that was dinged on the most was this!( Rom 4:17-18) They would say, see we are descendants!!!

They proclaimed what a friend of mine like's to say. Name it, claim it,blab it, grab it. lol And you know what?? It worked to!! LOL

But then one year after I had totally got wrapped up in self,because indeed this doctrine looks to do that,and call all others non believers,or weak in there faith, as an excuse to have such a high opinion of yourself. I had a great fall! To long to go into,but I really fell hard! So hard was my fall, I took the Word of God and threw in the trash can,and left the faith for 8 long years afterwards!

Only because of the Lord's wonderful grace and mercy upon me, did I return to the fold,and start all over again! But this time, my foundation was not upon faith,but rather upon love!! 1Cor 12:31 is not in the Word of faith songbook, nor in there message.I will show you a more excellent way!( 1 Cor 13:1!!!) Faith makes a great noise,but has no lasting result,LOVE does both! Love does not think more highly of itself then it ought to think( rom 12:3)

Faith can boast! hence why faith is so popular! Love does not look to play God!( Isaiah 42:8)And we are witnesses not creators!!!( Isaiah 43:10!!!) before ME there is NO GOD formed, and there will be NONE after me!!! What a difference in mindset!! They measure there faith by wealth,Paul must not have received the message!!!( 1 Cor 4:10-16!!!) never saw the word of faith ever come near this series of verses!! LOL verse 11????Homeless?? a believer???? The great difference my brother,sister is not in a boast,but rather in the result of who is doing the teaching!!!( 1 John 2:27!!)

I know many who are in the word of faith now will be like I was,and never even look to understand this,I didn't either! I was just like what the prophet Isaiah stated in Matt 13:14-15! It really and truly takes Holy Spirit himself!!! And then Holy Spirit will say this to you!!( Matt 13:16-17!!) Rev 3:8 because you have a little power! verse 9 comes very close to the Word of faith movement! Rev 3:10-13!!!!!! May you all be and stay blessed through our most Loving Jesus!!

Wow thanks for this post Brighthouse.

I can relate too. Our son was born with a head condition. He was almost paralyzed and handicapped from it. It can happen anytime in his life as it is still there. If he falls too hard he can apparently die. My wife is holding him for the first time after four months in ICU and my WoF friend tells my wife she has not got enough faith..... This after he prayed over the kid and nothing happened. He told us he will get his pastor to pray. I never gave the fool an opportunity.

John 9:31 set me free on this. It is crystal clear on the criteria to God hearing our prayers. 1. Not being in willful sin and 2. Being a godly person who does his will.

 

[amadeus2]

I think it has to be both. There are a great many "prophets and teachers" who claim to
have word from the Holy Spirit. Yet what they say disagrees with the Bible. The Holy Spirit will never disagree with the word. How do you know what the word says without studying it?

Hmmm? Without a doubt there are some who claim to have "word from the Holy Spirit" and yet what they say disagrees with the Bible. Even so, but our answers do not come simply through study or would not the best students would make the best followers of Christ? This has certainly NOT been the case in my experience.

Don't forget the OT when you read or study the NT:
"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

And yet in the NT we read:

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Tim 2:15

What I see though the Holy Spirit is a command to "study", but NOT to simply study to learn the truth. Some atheists I have met have a better grasp on the literal word of the Bible than some very sincere Christians. The key is the Holy Spirit leading the person... rather than hard hours of study of scripture.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

To study is command to obedience, not to learning. Learning, real learning of God's truth, if it comes at all always comes through the Holy Ghost.

Some of the truths of the Bible are hidden in parables, metaphors and revelation by the
Spirit, but much of the Bible (I would say the majority) is simply taken as written in black
and white. Do not kill. Do not steal. Do not lie. How much spiritual revelation do you need
to understand that?

What is black and white, or seems to be, is so because of the Holy Spirit leading even in the truth of that which may seem obvious to you or to me. Look again to the OT:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1

"A time to kill..." Ecc 3:3

Why did Rahab the harlot in the OT lie about the spies she had helped at Jericho? Yet, see here in the NT:

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace." Heb 11:31

Contradictions? No, not contradictions, but misunderstandings because of the wrong spirit, a spirit other than the Holy Spirit leading someone. Has anyone who believes in and loves God ever quenched the Holy Spirit?

 

[amadeus2]

The Holy Spirit my friend is the one who teaches you and enables you to receive spiritual understanding in the first place. So I will answer your question with a question - How can you study and dig into Gods word with out the leading of the Holy Spirit ?

What if the Holy Spirit does not want you to study with that purpose, but rather to encounter what God has for you at the moment outside of what you thought your purpose was?

Should we seek specific answers to questions we already have, or should we not rather seek the direction that God has for us?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

How can we even know what questions to ask without the lead of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

What if the Holy Spirit does not want you to study with that purpose, but rather to encounter what God has for you at the moment outside of what you thought your purpose was?

Should we seek specific answers to questions we already have, or should we not rather seek the direction that God has for us?

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

How can we even know what questions to ask without the lead of the Holy Spirit?

Well the day the Holy Spirit does not want you to study Gods Written Word to gain spiritual growth and strength - well sir - we must already be home'

Then on the other hand sir, I don't ever get into Gods word with out allowing the leading of the Holy Spirit. I mean I open the book to learn and grow - why would I do things in any other way other then be willing to be willing to be lead?

 

[KingJ]

@RJ and @Bendito and @JohnP

To those who seem to constantly use " we were given a measure of Faith" as a solid answer - this is true but Very incomplete to say the least and here is why or THE REST OF THE STORY............

Romans 12:3 and 1John5:1-5 and Epphesians 2:8 and Romans 10:6-17 these all reveal that THE FAITH OF GOD comes with being born again. Every beleiver Has The Saame Measure Of Faith. It was THE INCORRUPTIBLE SEED - THE WORD OF GOD - by which we were BORN OF THE SPIRIT !!

Now then with that said remembering that every beleiver has the same measure of faith -
The only difference between JESUS , You and Me is the LEVEL of which our FAITH has been Developed.

Every natural baby baby is born with the same number of muscles. The only difference between the strength of a 6 month old and a 1 year old child, is muscle development. The same is TRUE with SPIRITUAL GROWTH.

1Peter 2:2
as new born babes, desire the sincere milk of THE WORD, that ye may grow thereby.

Spiritual growth DOES NOT come with the passing of time. A person may have been born again and a regular with the church for 40 years and still be a BABY.

Hebrews 12:2 Tells us that JESUS is the Author and Finisher and the Perfector and Developer OF OUR FAITH
So UNLESS you build up your most Holy Faith in Gods Word - you are running on empty and without power or victories.

God Bless
James

Jim I see what you are saying. This is one of your better explained posts .

We all have a measure of faith, agreed. We then go on growing in faith. I can agree with that. But don't you think we need to differentiate the faiths? There is different context / nuances to the word 'faith' used in scriptures.

The measure of faith we all received enables us to call Jesus Lord. 1 Cor 12:3 and Matt 16:16-17 is crystal clear on that. This is the faith that has to do with Heb 11:6 ''without faith you cannot please God''. As, without believing Jesus is Lord we cannot please God.

So I differentiate between three very distinct kinds of faith in scripture.

1. Faith in God's existence (omnipotent and sovereign). This faith we should all have per Rom 1:20.
2. Faith that Jesus is Lord and able to reconcile us with God. This is the measure of faith we are given.
3. Faith that God is good. We can instantly believe this by just grasping the cross. But there is definitely an element of trust building required on this earth and with our carnal mind. This is the faith I believe we grow in. This is the faith that Abraham had. Abraham knew God existed. Abraham trusted his son in God's hands. Abraham would not have trusted his son in God's hands if he thought God was evil. He had faith in God being good.

I don't believe we can just say '''have faith / grow in faith''. We always need to explain what the faith is in or the context of the scripture using it.

Perhaps you can share more light on what faith exactly we must grow in?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

James 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
James 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
James 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Ater your faith is developed you may be called to the next level of trusting God.
That would be the "word of endurance" movement.

Jesus did not turn those stones into bread because he was the bread that came to make the stones living.
Temptation #1 Get your needs filled as proof you are the Son of God.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Jim I see what you are saying. This is one of your better explained posts .

We all have a measure of faith, agreed. We then go on growing in faith. I can agree with that. But don't you think we need to differentiate the faiths? There is different context / nuances to the word 'faith' used in scriptures.

The measure of faith we all received enables us to call Jesus Lord. 1 Cor 12:3 and Matt 16:16-17 is crystal clear on that. This is the faith that has to do with Heb 11:6 ''without faith you cannot please God''. As, without believing Jesus is Lord we cannot please God.

So I differentiate between three very distinct kinds of faith in scripture.

1. Faith in God's existence (omnipotent and sovereign). This faith we should all have per Rom 1:20.
2. Faith that Jesus is Lord and able to reconcile us with God. This is the measure of faith we are given.
3. Faith that God is good. We can instantly believe this by just grasping the cross. But there is definitely an element of trust building required on this earth and with our carnal mind. This is the faith I believe we grow in. This is the faith that Abraham had. Abraham knew God existed. Abraham trusted his son in God's hands. Abraham would not have trusted his son in God's hands if he thought God was evil. He had faith in God being good.

I don't believe we can just say '''have faith / grow in faith''. We always need to explain what the faith is in or the context of the scripture using it.

Perhaps you can share more light on what faith exactly we must grow in?

Howdy there Brother KJ,
Faith is Faith and comes in many levels or stages of development . What I mean is this.....it does not take much faith at all to know there is a God or Creator. It does not take much faith at all to know or beleive Jesus is the son of God. Kind of like your everyday basic version of faith.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

James 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
James 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
James 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Ater your faith is developed you may be called to the next level of trusting God.
That would be the "word of endurance" movement.

Jesus did not turn those stones into bread because he was the bread that came to make the stones living.
Temptation #1 Get your needs filled as proof you are the Son of God.

Could you explain your reply here ? What exactly is it you wanted to say?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Could you explain your reply here ? What exactly is it you wanted to say?

I meant to say "after".
Jesus had faith to forgo getting his own body's needs met.
He tested his belief that God's word was indeed bread.
That he himself was that word/bread come down from heaven.

The mighty shall be mightily put to the test.
I'm not saying we should accept sickness or poverty or any other evil,but once faith is fully developed there may be a test.

 

[KingJ]

Howdy there Brother KJ,
Faith is Faith and comes in many levels or stages of development . What I mean is this.....it does not take much faith at all to know there is a God or Creator. It does not take much faith at all to know or beleive Jesus is the son of God. Kind of like your everyday basic version of faith.

This is where we have to agree to disagree .

I can't see how believing a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is God of the universe and us trusting our eternity in His hands is trivial faith.

Trivial faith for me is what you propose takes more faith. Like healing and prosperity. As I am sure you have heard me say a million times....faith of a ridiculously tiny mustard seed can move a mountain.

Walking on water, healing the sick, believing God can print paper money....these are all level one faith that even the unsaved can operate in. As per my pt 1 above. All we need for this is to be convinced there is a God and that He is sovereign and omnipotent. IE When you know there is a God you should be convinced He can do these things. Matt 7:22 proves this too. It is crystal clear that the name of Jesus alone can cast out demons and heal the sick. It does not take being a Christian to do this as Jesus says to them ''I do not know you''.

 

[KingJ]

I believe the faith we grow in is on par with Job's faith. When life is hell, we keep our faith in the Lord.

With this....the only way it can be tested is with trials and tribulations. There is no other way for a Christian to grow in faith. If everything was going well, there would be no growth.

Think of a relationship. How much closer would you be to your wife if you knew / saw her resist men at work. Or saw her sticking with you through poverty and sickness?

What am I missing Jim? Am I getting your belief wrong? Am I making too many assumptions?