Member
Hi Chopper. Do you think faith is the only gift you need to live, or is there another besides faith?
Wondering About Faith (Ephesians 2)
Loyal
We are saved by "grace" alone!!! Now if you, or anybody else wants to experience this salvation was given to us by grace alone, then that would require "faith" on your part. The reason is it by "grace alone" is based on the fact that if God did not "first" reveal himself to man, man would not even want God. We find this truth in the scripture that says.....
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
God gave to man his grace by revealing himself to man when he was not even looking for it. This "grace" has been revealed to ALL men, in all time, and history!
This means there is nothing you could ever do, or say that can give yourself credit for it. Any man who says he is saved by faith does not understand God or his Word.
Faith is only the "key" that gives us "access" to God's grace by which we are saved.
The works part of faith is what God does for those who have faith. We do not do the works of faith, God does.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Man's "work" is to "believe", God's "work" is to do.
Member
Thank you, but I must have been unclear in my query. Please let me ask again:
Is faith the ONLY thing required if me to be saved by grace alone?
Loyal
Yes!!! This does not mean that there will be no works coming forth from you. Jesus Christ who is now your new life is still doing miracles and works through his body which is you. There has never been a man of God who has ever said they did anything for God. It is the other way around as it God who working through man who has faith!
This would be called, "entering into God's rest" He that has entered into God's rest has ceased from his own works, even as God did from his.
Member
So if I were to ask you, "What must I do to be saved?" would you answer, "Do nothing but put faith in God and not in your own works!" or would you answer something like that?
Loyal
Jesus referred to "believing as "working". It takes work to believe. How? The carnal natural mind can not believe in something it can not see, or feel. You have to overcome these with the Word of God by faith. This takes work because this is not normal to the man who does not the Spirit of God. Overcoming the mind is a major factor and work.
John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
As for works, the man who has "faith" in the Word of God causes that same Word to work from within that person. You are not doing it the Word is!! This trips up so many Christians today, as they simply do not understand how faith works. They think they are suppose do the works, which is not true. The only thing man can do on his own is "iniquity"
Member
Yes, thank you. So belief or faith is all that is required of me to be forever forgiven for my sins, I see. Or am I not seeing quite clearly?
Loyal
Brother, you got it. There is one thing about Christianity, and it is this. When God is using you, you will know it, and you will not need to ask people if he is. Rejoicing in what the Lord does through you is beyond description in human words.
Member
Then I think my eyes must deceive me. But perhaps God will use you to clear my vision. You see, I'm not sure the Apostle Peter agrees. But maybe I misunderstand him. Please tell me: What does Peter say God requires of us before forgiving us?
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.”
(Acts 2)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.”
(Acts 2)
Loyal
You have to go back and read what Peter was telling these people in the previous verses. We are saved by grace through faith. Faith only comes by hearing the Word of God. These people were listening to the Gospel through the Word of God spoken through Peter. To repent is to change your mind, and in this case who Jesus Christ was. Jesus is the Son of God, making him equal to God. This revelation is what causes a man to get saved as it is written in Roman 10:9
Rom 10:9.. That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10.. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
See these verses here in Romans 10:9-10. This is what I did almost 40 years ago, and I have never been the same!
Act 2:32.. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33.. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34.. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35.. Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36.. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37.. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38.. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Member
Yes, thank you for showing me what I must do and for helping me do it. Now please tell me if I misunderstand your answer to my question. I asked what Peter said they must do to be saved. You said he said they must repent, by which he meant change their minds about who Jesus was and what he did.
So if I'm still understanding you correctly, please tell me this: Since he does not mention faith, does that mean both repentance AND faith are required by God for us to be saved? Or does that mean repentance IS faith?
Loyal
When a person hears the Word of God, it brings faith to that person. The Holy Spirit is also at work revealing the message that they are hearing. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal to a person that Jesus Christ is Lord.
This is the revelation that causes a man to change his mind, and to actually believe this to be true. Confessing Jesus Christ as Lord with your mouth and believing in your heart brings salvation to that person, The Holy Spirit at that time of confessing "baptizes" that person into the body of Christ. They have now become a child of God.
Member
My apologies, but I don't know if you answered my question. Please tell me: Is the truth (1) or (2) or (3)?
1. To save us, God requires repentance and faith.
2. To save us, God requires only faith, because repentance is faith.
3. Neither (1) nor (2) is true.
Please choose a number so I will know what you believe.
Loyal
It is both, repentance and faith.I guess that would be #1
Member
Yes, I think you are right. Paul seems to agree:It is both, repentance and faith.I guess that would be #1
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
(Acts 20:21)
Jesus also appears to concur as well:(Acts 20:21)
46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations,beginning at Jerusalem.48 You are witnesses of these things."
(Luke 24)
(Luke 24)
So then, when a well-meaning Christian tells us she believes we are saved by grace alone through faith alone, we might know she is sincere but sincerely wrong. We would not be in the wrong to speak the truth in love by gently and respectfully pointing out her error, I think. Do you think the same?
Member
Curtis:
You know, I used to tell people often, "You are saved by grace alone through faith alone." I was quite militant about it, to the point of being rude. When people disagreed with me, I immediately set them straight--throwing one Bible passage after another at them, like so many holy hand grenades. They would lob biblical passages at me, too, but I was too busy thinking of my next attack to pay much attention. I thought I won many arguments, but I didn't realize I was actually the loser.
That is, I was lost in my deception, until some extremely patient and kind Christians helped me stop arguing and start thinking. My decision to stop debating and start using a method to have thoughtful conversations also helped.
You know, I used to tell people often, "You are saved by grace alone through faith alone." I was quite militant about it, to the point of being rude. When people disagreed with me, I immediately set them straight--throwing one Bible passage after another at them, like so many holy hand grenades. They would lob biblical passages at me, too, but I was too busy thinking of my next attack to pay much attention. I thought I won many arguments, but I didn't realize I was actually the loser.
That is, I was lost in my deception, until some extremely patient and kind Christians helped me stop arguing and start thinking. My decision to stop debating and start using a method to have thoughtful conversations also helped.
Active
Faith is actually not needed at all,only a revelation that that offers the option of turning or repenting an believing on the one whom God sent.
The apostle Paul did not need faith because Jesus revealed himself directly to Paul.
Believing on the one whom God sent is repentance.
Jesus is the foundation,not faith,not repentance,not works.
Accepting that foundation once it is revealed is a one time thing.
It's not about us at all,it's about accepting that which was already done for us.
Otherwise you will spend your life trying to lay your own foundation.
Member
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Member
Hi, ThisCross. Are you saying believing or trusting in who Jesus is and what he did is not faith?
Loyal
But even after encountering Jesus on the road to Damascus, Paul was blind. It wasn't until he went to visit Ananias that he was given "eyes to see". But, even then did Paul immediately see everything that God had for him to see? I think not. Paul went away apparently to meditate on the things of God for a period of time to grow in both faith and knowledge through the Holy Spirit. All of us need to increase in faith as we also increase in knowledge. We do live by faith, but in time and in certain areas according to our faith some things that we only believed become known to us while some things that we believed are cast aside as erroneous. There is an end of faith and that end is Jesus, but we come fully to that end, I believe, only when we have overcome everything that stands between us and God.
In the meantime, I believe that believers are usually at best a mixture of faith and knowledge without always knowing which is which.
Yes, Jesus is the foundation, but who is able to see it all clearly (face to face) here and now? As Jesus had to increase, so do we.