Why people believe they love ones, looking down on them smiling

[Rhema]

I gave logical and sound reasons for why your belief is false teaching.

In your dreams.

As always you never address my accusations of your belief.

Couldn't care less about your accusations. And we know who the accuser of the brethren truly is.

I quite understand that you want to be taken seriously, but much of what you post is so comical as to make that impossible. Your logic is most often squirrelly, and no discussion can untie the knots of how you think. Accept it and move on.

My message does not taint God as wicked. Yours does.

Only up inside your own head. Again, there's no way to untie the knot of your logic no matter how hard one tries. So it's a waste of my time to address your nonsense. You only twist things up again.

Have a nice day,
Rhema

 

[KingJ]

In your dreams.

Couldn't care less about your accusations. And we know who the accuser of the brethren truly is.

I quite understand that you want to be taken seriously, but much of what you post is so comical as to make that impossible. Your logic is most often squirrelly, and no discussion can untie the knots of how you think. Accept it and move on.


Only up inside your own head. Again, there's no way to untie the knot of your logic no matter how hard one tries. So it's a waste of my time to address your nonsense. You only twist things up again.

Have a nice day,
Rhema

More dancing.

 

[Rhema]

More dancing.

I like dancing.
And singing.
Watch ... as I perform Greyrock.

 

[BroTan]

Ecclesiastes 9 is written in a poetic style. Not to be taken literally. The context and point is simply that over time, the dead are forgotten.

If you take verse 5 literally, must we also take the rest literally? What you are doing is called 'grabbing a straw'.

Eccl 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

Eccl 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

The book say in 2 Timothy 3: 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The scriptures are from Genesis to Malachi.

 

[BroTan]

The body of Christ is not just those who are alive on planet earth but also all those in Heaven.

1Co 12:26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; or if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

Who are those also in Heaven?

 

[BroTan]

Let's find another witness. The Lord said that David was a man after His own heart. David should know about this subject. Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page. Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath. David clarifies this even further in the 88th Psalm.

Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah. 11 Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction? 12 Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

What did he call the grave? The land of forgetfulness. So far the Bible is consistent.

 

[Curtis]

Who are those also in Heaven?

Php 1:22 Suppose I go on living in my body. Then I will be able to carry on my work. It will bear a lot of fruit. But what should I choose? I don't know.
Php 1:23 I can't decide between the two. I long to leave this world and be with Christ. That is better by far.
Php 1:24 But it is more important for you that I stay alive.

2Co 5:6 So here is what we can always be certain about. As long as we are at home in our bodies, we are away from the Lord.
2Co 5:7 We live by believing, not by seeing.
2Co 5:8 We are certain about that. We would rather be away from our bodies and at home with the Lord.

All born-again believers who have physically died are in Heaven with the Lord.

 

[Rhema]

Php 1:23 I can't decide between the two. I long to leave this world and be with Christ.

2Co 5:8 We are certain about that. We would rather be away from our bodies and at home with the Lord.

I always find it puzzling when believers use the writings of Paul to discredit the Scriptures.

But I would note, Curtis, that Paul mentioned no time frame in these verses. It doesn't say NOW. So, given that all preach the Resurrection, that would be the appropriate time frame.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

Where did the angels get the word? (Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John The angels got it from the Lord. The Lord got it from the Father. The Prophets and the Apostle are simply quoting the Lord. If you don't believe them, you don't believe the Lord.

Angel is a fake word. He sent and signified it "his message" unto his servant John the apostle.

Apostle sent messenger

No invisible creation. Caled angels

Christ in us not a legion of disembodied workers with familiar spirit gods that some call patron saints .

They are made to no effect by sola scriptura. the words of the law which were written in the book

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

 

[Garee]

Ain't that the truth. !!!


It seems to help them deal with their emotions.

But one might need to address this scriptural passage:

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,​

- Hebrews 12:1 KJV

The Greek word actually means cloud (like the cartoons with all those dead people sitting on the clouds). And I don't know of any Greek manuscript that would use "cloud" to mean "body of testimony."

Those who take scripture quite literally would say these witnesses are up there sitting on those clouds.

God bless,
Rhema

The origin of cloud is likened to a rock (clod) described as a state or cause of gloom, suspicion, trouble, or worry: You could say a shadow like: "a black cloud hung over lives" "to render dim or obscure;" "to overspread with gloom.

Remember before the flood there were no clouds and therefore no rainbows. Cloud as a metaphor is used in parables to represent the unseen will of our invisible God.

He can use a rock or a cloud in that way of providing a shadow of the eternal things not seen

1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the Lord: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.

Genesis 9:13-16 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

No cloud no rainbow

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

The false cloud or false witness. I will be like the most High

Exodus 13:21-22 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, (keep them cool)_ to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire,(to give them heat) to give them light; to go by day and night :He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day,(shade) nor the pillar of fire by night,(heat) from before the people.

The same cloud witness of God blinded the enemy

Exodus 14:20 And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night.

The cloud of witness are all of the saints that suffered died and are asleep.

Not what some call patron saints. The living seeking the dead family members. Both of Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox

 

[BroTan]

Angel is a fake word. He sent and signified it "his message" unto his servant John the apostle.

Apostle sent messenger

No invisible creation. Caled angels

Christ in us not a legion of disembodied workers with familiar spirit gods that some call patron saints .

They are made to no effect by sola scriptura. the words of the law which were written in the book

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

So you saying that you don't believe in angels, is that what you saying?

 

[BroTan]

Php 1:22 Suppose I go on living in my body. Then I will be able to carry on my work. It will bear a lot of fruit. But what should I choose? I don't know.
Php 1:23 I can't decide between the two. I long to leave this world and be with Christ. That is better by far.
Php 1:24 But it is more important for you that I stay alive.

2Co 5:6 So here is what we can always be certain about. As long as we are at home in our bodies, we are away from the Lord.
2Co 5:7 We live by believing, not by seeing.
2Co 5:8 We are certain about that. We would rather be away from our bodies and at home with the Lord.

All born-again believers who have physically died are in Heaven with the Lord.

In the scriptures it's written in Psalm 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

This verse clarifies the 6th Psalm. David and Solomon are consistent.

Let's go to another Prophet, the Prophet Isaiah and see what he has to say about this subject.

Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

The Prophet Isaiah confirmed what David and Solomon said. "For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth". Does anything else need to be said? This is very clear. Look at verse 19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth. While you are alive you can praise the Lord.

 

[BroTan]

Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject.

Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble. 2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.

Remember what Solomon said? Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You. Pay close attention!

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.

 

[Curtis]

Was that hard to understand? No. If you are dead you have no wisdom, no knowledge, no memory who can you praise? No one. Here is another Psalm.

Psalm 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

When Jesus died on the cross where did he say he was going along with the thief crucified next to him?

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Where did his dead body go? There is no memory in the grave, but there is memory where his spirit was.

 

[Rhema]

Where did his dead body go?

C'mon Curtis, the corpse of Jesus went into the grave. And in accordance with the scriptures that Jesus believed, his spirit went back to God.

but there is memory where his spirit was.

Where did the Gospel of Matthew say Jesus' "spirit" went?
Where did the Gospel of Mark say Jesus' "spirit" went?
Where did the Gospel of Luke say Jesus' "spirit" went?
Where did the Gospel of John say Jesus' "spirit" went?

Granted, Luke gives the impression that both Jesus and the Insurrectionist wound up in Paradise, but that's not Heaven, and I know you don't want to hear this, but Luke is writing a theological parable. It's not physically possible for three people being crucified to have such an in-depth rational conversation.

When Luke encounters the story of the crucifixion (remember, Luke directly states that he is collecting stories from a number of people) he sees two "thieves" (technically "rebels" against Rome) and believes that there must be some deep spiritual reason for this number to be specified. Two !! Luke presents a spiritual truth that one must either choose to believe, or choose to reject, and he places this dual (two) choice into the setting of the crucifixion. Luke is not relating a historical or factual event, but rather he is teaching a spiritual lesson. That's why "Paradise" is used, rather than "heaven" or "Sheol."

Now, the obvious question is what the heck is meant by the epistle of Peter?

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;​

- 1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV

The obvious answer is when? When did this happen? And why is there absolutely no record of this in Matthew, Mark, John, or even Luke for that matter? One would think that Jesus would have told his disciples if anything happened to him while he was dead. But none of the Gospels contain any account, and there should be if anything other than death happened. Jesus was dead (dead) and was then Resurrected.

Now I know you have me on ignore, because you don't like considering questions that might upset your apple cart.

The point is, you quote a lot of scriptures where you assume a specific time frame that isn't in the text.

So whatever one may make about the epistle named First Peter, the preaching wasn't during the three days that Jesus was dead.

But please, I am open to other scriptures that you think support your beliefs to the contrary.

Best regards,
Rhema

 

[KingJ]

I am just waiting for @Rhema and @BroTan to say ''haha, we were just trolling''.

The grave is used as the word for Sheol and hell 31 times each, and 'pit' on three occasions.

The grave is not a hole in the ground with a coffin and you in it.

 

[KingJ]

Let’s go to the Prophet Job and see if he knows anything about this subject.

Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble. 2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.

Remember what Solomon said? Let's take another look. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. Job said basically, "Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble". Each day you walk with God there is a war going on within your mind. Trying your best to keep this flesh body under control, trying to walk in the Lord's law, that is the trouble you encounter. If some one says it is easy that's a lie. You must walk in his power (His Word), to stay strong. You have a powerful adversary, and who is that? You. Pay close attention!

Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? 11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

What does Job mean by this statement, "Till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Let's take a look at this for a moment. Listen carefully to Peter. II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Look at the statement Peter made, "in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise". If the "heavens" shall pass away, going to the third heaven is a myth. Peter says it again. II Peter 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?. When Job said, "So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep,” he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Notice something else, "they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.” When will they awake? I Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. At the last trump the dead or those asleep shall be raised. Look like the Prophets and the Apostles are consistent.

You are cherry picking.

Stop cherry picking and 'deal' with the scriptures you have been given. Scripture shines light on scriptures and helps us better grasp context of what we assume is conflicting verses.

You have been accused of pushing a belief that incriminates God and yet you and @Rhema still push your pet theories with no regard for the accusation. Imagine that. A Christian not concerned that their belief incriminates God as evil.

 

[Garee]

So you saying that you don't believe in angels, is that what you saying?

Yes, I suggest no secret creation

I believe in messengers called apostles and there beautiful feet shod with the gospel.


Christ our Emanuel in us with us the living hope. Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter

 

[BroTan]

Yes, I suggest no secret creation

I believe in messengers called apostles and there beautiful feet shod with the gospel.


Christ our Emanuel in us with us the living hope. Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter

Imma Christian Bible believer so I usually stick with what's written in the Bible. So, if u can bless us with some scripture or verses according to your understanding that would be good.

 

[BroTan]

You are cherry picking.

Stop cherry picking and 'deal' with the scriptures you have been given. Scripture shines light on scriptures and helps us better grasp context of what we assume is conflicting verses.

You have been accused of pushing a belief that incriminates God and yet you and @Rhema still push your pet theories with no regard for the accusation. Imagine that. A Christian not concerned that their belief incriminates God as evil.

What part of what I post you don't understand? Because Jesus says in John 3: 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. How absolute is no man.