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Why does God send people to hell?

You cannot just say it. Free will needs to be proven.



No, it is your belief. You believe and teach that if someone does not accept Jesus as Lord they will literally die.

I really hope and pray you grasp how you will not reach anyone on this planet with a message like that.

I want you to think of a court that is passing judgment on a petty shoplifter. What person on this planet would agree with burning the shoplifter at a stake? Annihilationism comes completely and utterly unstuck when it comes to the punishment matching the crime.

Paul rebukes Christians in 1 Cor 6:1-9 who cannot judge matters better than the unsaved. Now we teach as fact that God fails harder than the unsaved because we have cherry picked some scriptures that suggest it. See where I am going. The foundation of your belief is grossly illogical.



We actually going a little off topic here.

Yes, God knows the thoughts of a believer, even in advance. By accepting Jesus we completely give our lives to Him. But, in order for true free will to exist, He cannot know in advance all the decisions and thoughts of the unbelievers. There is no way for true free will to exist if God does not limit His omniscience.

Now, something that is part and parcel of free will is having the ability to live out your life with the consequences of your choices. If you do not have that, then you do not have free will.

TeaJching that a shoplifter who refuses to stop shoplifting and accept Jesus as Lord will be mercilessly thrown into a fire and annihilated is most certainly not evidence of fr'ee will. Please try deal with this point directly and not dance around it.
'For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.'

(Rom 6:23)

Hello KingJ,

You have twisted what I have said in previous posts, and ascribed to me beliefs that I do not own.
So I will not continue to debate this issue with you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
'For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life
through Jesus Christ our Lord.'

(Rom 6:23)

Hello KingJ,

You have twisted what I have said in previous posts, and ascribed to me beliefs that I do not own.
So I will not continue to debate this issue with you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I asked you to explain how Rom 6:23 used in isolation to the rest of scripture and changing the word 'death' to annihilation is evidence of a good God and true free will. You have not done that. You believe one thing but teach another and then expect readers or the lost to magically assimilate the two.

Summary of your posts = ''God is good, free will is real......oh and by the way God our Creator of all, even our thoughts that we will one day think....knows.... all of them and will burn alive those who reject Him....even those unrepentant of the sin of stealing candy from the candy store''

Nice chat.
 
Agreed.



Would you mind just better clarifying your position. Not sure what you are trying to say.

Sometimes in our mind the points we type are clear. But to properly communicate that to another is not always easy ;).
Agreed.



Would you mind just better clarifying your position. Not sure what you are trying to say.

Sometimes in our mind the points we type are clear. But to properly communicate that to another is not always easy ;).

Venial sounds like suffering after one is dead some call Limbo for younger sinners' babies and Purgatory for the more mature sinner. The doctrine of wondering


Annihilationism is the belief that the final fate of those who are not saved is literal and final death and destruction as if never born the first time

It runs counter to the mainstream traditional Christian understanding of hell is eternal never-ending suffering as separation from God.

Hell is the temporal suffering we experience daily in these body of death that are under the letter of the law. (death)Thou shall not, or you are dead never to rise to new born again life.

The letter of the law death along with its suffering "hell" will be cast into the final judgment. The death of death.

In the new order the letter will not reappear or ever be remembered for ever and ever

Again, the death of death.
 
Venial sounds like suffering after one is dead some call Limbo for younger sinners' babies and Purgatory for the more mature sinner. The doctrine of wondering


Annihilationism is the belief that the final fate of those who are not saved is literal and final death and destruction as if never born the first time

It runs counter to the mainstream traditional Christian understanding of hell is eternal never-ending suffering as separation from God.

Hell is the temporal suffering we experience daily in these body of death that are under the letter of the law. (death)Thou shall not, or you are dead never to rise to new born again life.

The letter of the law death along with its suffering "hell" will be cast into the final judgment. The death of death.

In the new order the letter will not reappear or ever be remembered for ever and ever

Again, the death of death.

A venial sin is simply a small sin. A sin like shoplifting. A sin that nobody on this planet with a working brain will ordain a death penalty for.

Do you agree with an annihilationism?
 
A venial sin is simply a small sin. A sin like shoplifting. A sin that nobody on this planet with a working brain will ordain a death penalty for.

Do you agree with an annihilationism?

Hi thanks for the reply I would offer. .

Annihilationism Yes as if never born the first time.

I would think classifying sin into two separate distinct doctrines it would take away the sting of sin “death” and not the sting of suffering "more suffering".

Not more suffering but dead as if never born the first time. Not limbo (Venial) or purgatory (Mortal) the doctrine of wondering, suffering wondering never coming to faith the labor of Christ's love (believing the unseen eternal things of Christ) as it is written (sola scriptura)).

Not as if when one died (last breath of oxygen) they continue to suffer, wonder, suffer. . . .etc

That kind of ideology of a Queen mother of heaven began in the Old Testament. (Jeremiah 44) passed on to the Pharisees with Sadducees. Signs and wonder seekers. The pagan foundation " Out of sight out of mind " God calls fools. No invisable God in there thinking

The unbelieving Jewish women demanding equal rights with God who is not a man.

They demanded a Queen mother with full permission from the unbelieving husbands. They denied sola scriptura the written final authority of Christ and did whatsoever their own mind an oral tradition I heard it through the grape vine..

They must desire a Queen

Jeremiah 44:15-17 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, (sola scriptura) we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

They today that named this Queen mother calling her Mary, named her after our blessed sister in the Lord, Mary the mother of the Son of man Jesus,

They teach as doctrine that she alone received the fullness of Grace the whole cost of salvation while the rest of the planet received a unknown unknowable amount of Grace. Deceiving some that she is the mother of all Grace.

You could say like Roman and Greek mythology Rhea the queen mother of all gods. . . simply change the name to Mary

There must be oral traditions of dying mankind as long as they do not do despite to the fulness of grace the full cost of salvation. Only false apostles', false teachers do teach God is a woman an adult female.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 
You cannot just say it. Free will needs to be proven.
Every time you post proves free will. (Unless the devil makes you do it.)

No, it is your belief.
What is your pathology that so drives you to tell other people what they believe?

He either is the Creator of all or He isn't. If He is, which scripture is crystal clear He is, ...
I just knew you were a closet Calvinist.

by allowing evil, something He utterly hates, to take place.
So now you have GOD as an accomplice to evil.

What a rout.
 
Every time you post proves free will. (Unless the devil makes you do it.)


What is your pathology that so drives you to tell other people what they believe?


I just knew you were a closet Calvinist.


So now you have GOD as an accomplice to evil.

What a rout.

KingJ: 1+1 = 2
Rhema: 1+1 = 3, isolates words in a sentence to twist what was said and then also proceeds to mock the person that states 1+1 = 2 :D :D

YOU literally believe that God will KILL all those who refuse to accept Jesus and then PUSH that YOU believe in free will :D :D :D :D :D

Imagine me proposing to your daughter and saying that if she doesn't marry me I will burn her at the stake.

You guys are breaking records of ignorance, no doubt about that!!
 
Last edited:
Every time you post proves free will. (Unless the devil makes you do it.)

No, that would not prove free will. Google 'appearance' verse reality. Google 'going through the motions' verse reality.

What is your pathology that so drives you to tell other people what they believe?

1 + 1 = 2 kind of logic. Sorry, I am not dumb.

I just knew you were a closet Calvinist. So now you have GOD as an accomplice to evil.

Believing that God created all, including evil and that He also allows it to take place makes me a closet Calvinist? and God evil?

The above two points are scriptural, reality and fact. Which is why a Christian needs to properly explain how free will is possible given these two facts. Which, I have done, but you clearly cherry pick. I repeat:

Creator of all + Absolute omniscience = no free will = evil God

Creator of all + Limited omniscience = free will = good God

No other sound formula for free will.

What a rout.

What a reading blunder of my post. No wonder you fail so hard at both grasping the error of and defending your silly beliefs.
 
Hi thanks for the reply I would offer. .

Annihilationism Yes as if never born the first time.

I would think classifying sin into two separate distinct doctrines it would take away the sting of sin “death” and not the sting of suffering "more suffering".

Not more suffering but dead as if never born the first time. Not limbo (Venial) or purgatory (Mortal) the doctrine of wondering, suffering wondering never coming to faith the labor of Christ's love (believing the unseen eternal things of Christ) as it is written (sola scriptura)).

Not as if when one died (last breath of oxygen) they continue to suffer, wonder, suffer. . . .etc

That kind of ideology of a Queen mother of heaven began in the Old Testament. (Jeremiah 44) passed on to the Pharisees with Sadducees. Signs and wonder seekers. The pagan foundation " Out of sight out of mind " God calls fools. No invisable God in there thinking

The unbelieving Jewish women demanding equal rights with God who is not a man.

They demanded a Queen mother with full permission from the unbelieving husbands. They denied sola scriptura the written final authority of Christ and did whatsoever their own mind an oral tradition I heard it through the grape vine..

They must desire a Queen

Jeremiah 44:15-17 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, (sola scriptura) we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

They today that named this Queen mother calling her Mary, named her after our blessed sister in the Lord, Mary the mother of the Son of man Jesus,

They teach as doctrine that she alone received the fullness of Grace the whole cost of salvation while the rest of the planet received a unknown unknowable amount of Grace. Deceiving some that she is the mother of all Grace.

You could say like Roman and Greek mythology Rhea the queen mother of all gods. . . simply change the name to Mary

There must be oral traditions of dying mankind as long as they do not do despite to the fulness of grace the full cost of salvation. Only false apostles', false teachers do teach God is a woman an adult female.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.



I hear where you're coming from with your concerns about certain teachings and traditions that seem to stray from what the Bible says. It’s always good to dig into Scripture and wrestle with these ideas, especially when they touch on big topics like grace, salvation, and who God is. I agree that sticking to what’s written in the Bible helps keep us grounded, and it’s wise to test any teaching against that standard.

Your point about the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah 44 is a great reminder of how easy it is for people to drift into ideas that feel right but don’t line up with God’s truth. History shows us that humans often mix cultural beliefs with faith, and that can muddy the waters. I think what you’re getting at is the importance of keeping our focus on Christ’s finished work—His grace is enough, and we don’t need to add extra layers to it. That’s a solid foundation to stand on.

I’d encourage you to keep studying and praying through these things. Maybe check out some prayers for discernment to stay rooted in truth. Thanks for sparking this discussion—it’s a good chance for us all to reflect and grow!
 
1 + 1 = 2 kind of logic. Sorry, I am not dumb.
Says our patron saint of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

No other sound formula for free will.
Sigh.... It's like trying to discuss Quantum Mechanics with a two year old.

YOU literally believe that God will KILL all those who refuse to accept Jesus and then PUSH that YOU believe in free will :D :D :D :D :D
What in God's name do you think the word DEATH means?

All are Dead and Dying unless they receive Permanent life through Christ.

and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it—dying thou dost die.'​
- Genesis 2:17 YLT

When your great grandparents died, did God KILL them?

Try to avoid your typical low level reply.

Rhema
 
Says our patron saint of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Irony.

Sigh.... It's like trying to discuss Quantum Mechanics with a two year old.

Cop-out, not dealing with point made and LMAO at comparing free will to quantum mechanics. :D :D

What in God's name do you think the word DEATH means?

Can you name one instance in scripture where God ordained the death penalty for someone and they ceased to exist. Just one.

You need to try grasp that you are speculating about something that has not yet happened. And all the evidence does not point in your direction. You belong to a small sect of cowboy's.

But alas, imagine expecting our resident quarreler to be intellectually honest and sane.
 
Every time you post proves free will. (Unless the devil makes you do it.)

Just this line from you proves that in your accusation, you would definitely be the two year old.

This has to be the silliest thing I have read this year.
 
Cop-out, not dealing with point made and LMAO at comparing free will to quantum mechanics. :D :D
Believer compare scripture to scripture

The Bible defines a will that has been liberated to do the born again will of God.

It's the kind of meat or daily bread the other disciples knew not of. Food from the unseen Holy Spirit (Christ in us)

Two fold, Both to hear the invisible father (let there be and demonstrate. . .. it was God alone good . called the law of faith (believing something will appear when God works to make it appear

John4:33-34 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

Again the key is both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Phillipians 2:13-14;For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Jesus the Son of man did the powerful will of the father with delight. Others like racist Jonah was dragged kicking against the pricks all the way and when God had finished moving him . Jonah desired to die.
 
Every time you post proves free will. (Unless the devil makes you do it.)
Just this line from you proves that in your accusation, you would definitely be the two year old.

This has to be the silliest thing I have read this year.
If you're not posting, who is? Who is making you post if you don't have the free will to do so on your own?

I've come to the conclusion that your definition of free will is just not the one as understood in North America.

So who is making @KingJ post?
1) God is making him post because he doesn't' have free will​
2) The devil or his minions are making him post because he doesn't' have free will.​
3) KingJ is making KingJ post because he does have free will.​

(There. I've used a structure that you might understand.)
 
The Bible defines a will that has been liberated to do the born again will of God.
Every now and then one finds a wonderful piece of avocado in your word salad. :)

Yet the "born again will of God" for the disciples of Jesus is to do anything that is not sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ,,, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​
- 1 John 3:6, 9 KJV

Regards,
Rhema
 
If you're not posting, who is? Who is making you post if you don't have the free will to do so on your own?

A tesla bot can post. It is just coding.

Again, I repeat, if God is both the Creator and always all knowing, there is no such thing as true free will.

It is not rocket science. It is not quantum mechanics. It is math a two year old should understand. Literally 1 + 1 = 2.

I've come to the conclusion that your definition of free will is just not the one as understood in North America.

About 3 years ago I read an article from a Catholic about limited omniscience. He had links to wikipedia too. I just can't find it now.

If the term 'limited omniscience' is what is tripping you up, try understand it from a different angle. God is both great and good at the same time. ALL His actions are limited by who He is. If doing something is evil, He limits His omnipotence and does not do it. Likewise if it can be proven that knowing something is evil, He limits HIs omniscience and does not know it. It is impossible to be impartial if He does not. And according to scripture, He is impartial Acts 10:34. So, let's allow all of scripture to define God and a not only single word ''omniscient'', as Calvinists do.

So who is making @KingJ post?
1) God is making him post because he doesn't' have free will​
2) The devil or his minions are making him post because he doesn't' have free will.​
3) KingJ is making KingJ post because he does have free will.​

(There. I've used a structure that you might understand.)

As I said above, a tesla post can be programmed to post and think it is doing it independently.

If God does not limit His omniscience, there is only an appearance of free will. It is that simple.
 
Every now and then one finds a wonderful piece of avocado in your word salad. :)

Yet the "born again will of God" for the disciples of Jesus is to do anything that is not sin.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. ,,, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​
- 1 John 3:6, 9 KJV

Regards,
Rhema

Yes,anything that is of the faith of Christ's labor of Love as it is written. The hidden food the disciples knew not of, our daily bread or called hidden manna in Rev 2:17

.The power of Christ's labor of love or called a work of his faith or understanding the power to both (the key) hear the will and perform it to the good and powerful pleasure of the Father of the household of Faith , Christ in us. . . Emanuel

John 4:33-35;Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is (both) to (1) do the will of him that sent me, and (2) to finish his work.

Not a work of the Son of man Jesus he demonstrated the work of the Father not seen


The gospel Christ faithfully working pouring out His Holy Spirit on dying mankind in jeopardy of his own Spirit life. Faith or power as power to both hear and do His will. Lovingly calling us you with little of his faith or understnding. Plenty to please His faithful will

.Pray he increase our new born again faith
 
Do you choose to sin, before you commit a sin?
Sometimes and sometimes not ... often when we think back on our childhood, and growing up, there are many things that at the time were not viewed as "sin", and later with more insight and Jesus in our Hearts, we see this as "sin"
 
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